Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been playing d/p a lot. I hate condi p/d because it is so boring. I went with a backstab build for the dps and assassiny feel. I was hoping for a build that could jump other players and destroy them with the weakness of being spotted while jumping someone. So I walk into wvw with my 06503 build expecting the 8k backstabs I c in vids. I use my signet, and backstab. 4k… Has backstab been debunked or something or am I just a crappy thief? Plz help! Thanx.

WvW of PvP?

If it’s WvW I can’t help you.

If It’s PvP, which amulet, what runes? When you say Signet, do you mean assassin’s with the 5might stacks on signet use trait?

Link your build and it’ll be much easier to answer this question.

The OP actually mentions it was in WVW.
There are a few different things that could have happened and things to take into account when you engage your target. What class were you fighting? Was it a full tank heavy armor warrior on his way back to his zerg? Was it a guardian who popped protection as you engaged? Did your backstabbing actually hit in the required zone to trigger the double damage?

As evil apprentice mentioned, a link with your build including armor, trinkets, runes, and sigils would be helpful in diagnosing a wimpy backstab.

evilapprentice.6379:

WvW of PvP?

If it’s WvW I can’t help you.

If It’s PvP, which amulet, what runes? When you say Signet, do you mean assassin’s with the 5might stacks on signet use trait?

Link your build and it’ll be much easier to answer this question.

It’s wvw, but what am I supposed to be getting on backstabs?

RagNoRawk.3625:

The OP actually mentions it was in WVW.
There are a few different things that could have happened and things to take into account when you engage your target. What class were you fighting? Was it a full tank heavy armor warrior on his way back to his zerg? Was it a guardian who popped protection as you engaged? Did your backstabbing actually hit in the required zone to trigger the double damage?

As evil apprentice mentioned, a link with your build including armor, trinkets, runes, and sigils would be helpful in diagnosing a wimpy backstab.

I hit a thief for 5k. That’s the highest I’ve gotten. I hit full tanks for ~4.3k. I will post my build tomorrow since I’m on my phone rite now.

Then you are likely a tanky build, like soldiers.

Pretty much what Jana said. If you want to deal better stab damage, you’re going to have to move over to valk/berserker armor pretty much exclusively.

Don’t underestimate the dmg increase from buffs/stacks/ascended gear.

On my main account, I pamper my thieves, they got everything I spend any gold on. I fill up 20 slot bag with just asc weps/spare asc armour, and I got both guard stacks in WvW. With all buffs/stacks on, I hit 8-10k (no might stacking or assassin signet) on average, ultra tanky heavies a bit less, and squishies often for 10k+, when stars align it’s 13k+. Would be higher with some might stacks on.

In comparison, thief on my other account is a poor guy that has only exotics and yeah I’ll get him bloodlust sigil soon :P, no guard stacks either. Backstabs are 4-5k on heavies, 5-6k on squishier targets and if lucky I get 7k on some upscaled player.

Same traits, same stat distribution (zerker) but one has all buffs possible vs exotic with food/stones only.

The thief isn’t a one-shot class. Even burning 4 signets with full stacks will only work against the most unaware and glassy people in WvW. Everyone knows how to counter thief burst and it has been nerfed down hard over and over (CnD, Mug, etc).

4k backstabs is fine as long as you have your strong defense worked out (e.g. are you heavy evades, heavy stealth, heavy blinds?). You will just need a lot of them and durability to make it work.

evilapprentice.6379:

WvW of PvP?

If it’s WvW I can’t help you.

If It’s PvP, which amulet, what runes? When you say Signet, do you mean assassin’s with the 5might stacks on signet use trait?

Link your build and it’ll be much easier to answer this question.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVl0Mp0pNOx7J0PNRPBtdAi9D4MCXwznEFA-T1BBwASOCAYV+B4RAkXDDy9HgcCAOrEEA-w

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVl0Mp0pNOx7J0PNRPBtdAi9D4MCXwznEFA-TFDBABmqSAEnAgzUCKxRAALldA8IA8SpAOqqki+g80wg0+D6oGBA-w

I took your build and filled in the empty gear slots.. stats are respectable now for wvw roaming. although you might wanna consider shadows embrace for ur first trait in shadow arts.. condis are horrible

If you want super MLG numbers hit record when you know you have an isolated squishy or isolated upscaleds. Good luck in there Burning Ember, I’ll see you around.

OMGimAnoobLOLOL.4730:

If you want super MLG numbers hit record when you know you have an isolated squishy or isolated upscaleds. Good luck in there Burning Ember, I’ll see you around.

Do u mind mentioning those tune ups again that u told me in-game? Thanx.

xXBurningEmberXx.6085:

It’s wvw, but what am I supposed to be getting on backstabs?

While I’m aware that this is not an_usual (edit: replaced space with _ because kitten xD) number, I was actually once backstabbed for more than 8k when I had 2,8k armor on my Mesmer (playing non-PU-condi with full Rabid and 5 (not 6) points into the Chaos-traitline). Must have been a Thief like Jayden Ennok is desciribing it in the first part of his post.

So I guess 5-6k on targets with high armor would be really nice already.

xXBurningEmberXx.6085:

evilapprentice.6379:

WvW of PvP?

If it’s WvW I can’t help you.

If It’s PvP, which amulet, what runes? When you say Signet, do you mean assassin’s with the 5might stacks on signet use trait?

Link your build and it’ll be much easier to answer this question.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVl0Mp0pNOx7J0PNRPBtdAi9D4MCXwznEFA-T1BBwASOCAYV+B4RAkXDDy9HgcCAOrEEA-w

1. Your traits are a mess. x/6/6/x/x is a typical WvW build, but that’s defensive. If you want ALLDEMDAMAGES, you pretty much need to go 6/6/x/x/x.
2. Your runes are defensive. That’s also majorly hindering your damage.
3. You’re not using the Might-on-Signet use trait.

Something like this. A quick numbercrunch gives me around 8k average for Backstab, assuming that you have the 25 Bloodlust stacks and pop all signets for 15 Might.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMp0pdPxyJ8PNBNBt9wbQE8OMfpMaFAA-TVCFwAtPEAAOBAXVCiU5ngHAAK1fqt/QG9BLOCABAOA43f/93f/tUARsMC-w
With a classic trickery D/P build like this full glass scholars will take a 7k BS at most, around 8-9k if below 50%. However you still have the Fire and Air procs and Mug which will push this to around 12k immediate damage, more if Heartseeker also hits and you mix in some autos.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMp0pdPxyJ8PNBNBt9wbQE8LM6GgZD-TVCFwAtPEAAOBAXVCiU5ngHAAK1fqt/QG9BLOCABAOA43f/93f/tUARsMC-w
Should be around 2k increase on the BS.

the 66002 spec as posted will give you even more power to BS with, and Sin Signet with the 15% damage increase will help too.

However I’d like to point out that anything with 6 in top two trees will have slight survival issues…
To max your damage you want at least ascended main dagger, and all the % modifiers you can get, like Force, Night, Impact (Basi), Sin Signet, Improvisation (+10%), meet conditions of the 5 Minor traits in top 2 trees (both grant +10%); as well as power stacks like Bloodlust, the revealed +200 trait, Food, guard stacks, might on signets…

So:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVl8MpwpVOxxJ8PNBNRtdF0BRgXhh2BwsNhA-TFSBABGfCAoU9HzUCe1+jyvIOEA4pPYhjAAAPAgAAIA3sNbzbG45O35O35Onf7bf7bf7bSBExyI-w
And you want your target to have:
a condition on them (+0%)
stunned (10% sigil of impact); at night (10% sigil of night, use ascalonian weps to show that it’s night cuz they glow)
below 50% (20%)
And on yourself:
above 90% hp (10% scholar runes); have might (5% strength runes)
above 6 initiative (10%; stealth and use signets and wait)
food (100 power 70 fero)
guard buff (200 power)
land backstab (200 revealed)
might stacks (35×12 = 420 power)
use assassin’s signet (15%)
have bloodlust (10×25 = 250 power)

So ideally you want to crash small group fights and spike whoever’s getting a bit low, or target squishies and hope they don’t have a finger on stunbreak..

You should have power close to around 3700-3900 as you BS. That way, it should be around 13k+. I advice you that if the target isn’t on the brink of death to stab it a few times with your insanely buffed autos then pull out your SB and bow them to death. Landing your Mug and Heartseeker also helps.

D/P isn’t that great with signets and missing the +3 initiative trait though. 3 does give you the ability to chase them down for the finish. Since you’re so baller anyway, D/D with the added damage and vuln from CnD might be a better choice as it has more 1-shot potential.

If you can’t let go of Shadow Arts at all, then 26600 is probably the way to go. The backstabs can go up to 10k (due to mightstack in stealth and executioner) but usually it’s more around the 7-8k mark. You do have sustain though and if you are patient, you can pull off a lot of ganks successfully.

max out runes of bloodlust, runes of divinity and venom ultimate. black power heartseeker + steal – then back stab.

Make sure you are using critical hit from stealth trait.

I always get 8 – 12 k. Minimum on high defence targets is around 6k – 8k.

Also check your foods and might stacks out

Ralkuth.1456:

Snip.

Why do you use Improv? Wouldn’t Dagger Training be better for damage?

I personally gave up on focusing on backstab in my experience in WvW recently it’s nearly pointless to try and back stab spam heavies or anyone with high heals, still would use it on lights and other thieves but if you want to still run a power build rather then a condi one i would suggest P/D for the massive amount of heavies and mesmers to get them to miss what cc/shatters you can’t dodge.

for reference i run the same traits 0/6/5/0/3 (also would advise “execution” over “hidden killer” for the crit master trait) with full zerker gear and it’s great mobility, can still 2 shot squishies and youre able to actually fight heavies with minimal issues.

If the initial burst fails, just shortbow kite the heavies to death. They eventually will lose, as most wars run healing signet so #4 can stop them with ease, and guards lack effective ways to close the gap in most cases, letting you whittle them down.

Dire condi builds like P/D dire perplex thief, condi bomb necro, and durable PU mesmers are really the difficult ones to fight.

Lamuness.3570:

Ralkuth.1456:

Snip.

Why do you use Improv? Wouldn’t Dagger Training be better for damage?

He seems to only want big backstabs, so if he makes sure to Steal before he lands it it’s a 10% guaranteed damage increase every time. I also have fond memories of it back when 56003 D/P was a thing as it sometimes recharged SS and SR.
Improv also helps slightly when you finish your spike and are finishing him off with SB.

Dagger Training gives a more consistent damage buff to be sure.

Wait, whaaaat, I thought it was an urban myth that improv works with stolen skills. Is that a true fact?

Lamuness.3570:

Wait, whaaaat, I thought it was an urban myth that improv works with stolen skills. Is that a true fact?

Kitten. This is why I should check it out first. Steal used to be a bundle but has not been since launch (or different kind of bundle). It is indeed a myth.
Kinda hard to test without steady weapons, but regrettably it doesn’t affect Backstab damage it seems (tested on golems). I was hopeful at first until I realised it was actually the Deadly Arts 5 minor trait…
Sorry about that, probably shouldn’t suggest that build without actually testing more – I’m not good enough to run 66002.

So yeah, Dagger Training I guess :0

Though in theory… If you get all your signets recharged by Improv (20% chance) you could probably reach 24 might…

I initially thought Improv worked similarly and when I performed my tests I admittedly left some variables unaccounted for which led me to believe I was also seeing a damage increase when in reality it does not get modified.

DT is the only option to reliably increase damage for that trait spot, and improv only procs when steal hits, not when it’s cast without a target like how ToTC can be used.

What is this “not a one shot class” silliness? When built for it, thief can most definitely one shot people.

The builds Ralkuth linked seem about right, though for one shotting I’d probably trade the off hand pistol for a dagger, since Cloak and Dagger + steal + backstab is such a good combo for bursting purposes. I’m also not sure about some of the traits, namely I’d swap Improvisation for Dagger training, and perhaps Thrill of the crime for Flanking Strikes and Signet Use for Furious Retaliation, though the last two changes make the burst somewhat less reliable.