Guild Wars 2

I’ll admit, when I first read about the changes to Lead Attack, I was pretty happy. I mean, it makes sense to get this bonus for using initiative instead of sitting on unused initiative.

However, the change overall is a nerf to PvP D/P builds and it doesn’t lead to any superior PvE builds.

D/P in PvP
This build heavily relies on jumping into a fight with heavy burst to +1. The longer a fight takes, the less likely you are to contribute much. The Lead Attack basically killed off 15% of the damage on your opening burst only to give it back when it doesn’t matter as much.

Lead Attack in PvE
After running dps tests, there doesn’t seem to be any build using the Trickery line that outdpses the current meta staff build. You can get really close to the dps using DA/CS/Tr on double dagger, but your damage drops off heavily in situations where your rotation is interrupted or when you can’t attack from behind and you also lose access to Fist Flurry/Impact Strike.

So really, this change now feels like a nerf. Anyone else in this camp?

pretty sure most of the time you had to spend initiative in the first place to set up said burst, so you wont get the full 15% anyway

Dahkeus.8243:

D/P in PvP
This build heavily relies on jumping into a fight with heavy burst to +1. The longer a fight takes, the less likely you are to contribute much. The Lead Attack basically killed off 15% of the damage on your opening burst only to give it back when it doesn’t matter as much.

The main idea of +1 is the Thief is coming from one node to help out on the other node. So it is presumed that the Thief will use Inf. Arrow and HS to get from node to node, which builds up the Lead Attack buff as soon as the Thief arrives at the destination to +1 a fight. I find it unlikely that the Thief will not have any LA-buff when they arrived to +1 a fight.

Lead Attack in PvE
After running dps tests, there doesn’t seem to be any build using the Trickery line that outdpses the current meta staff build. You can get really close to the dps using DA/CS/Tr on double dagger, but your damage drops off heavily in situations where your rotation is interrupted or when you can’t attack from behind and you also lose access to Fist Flurry/Impact Strike.

My PvE build is CS/Acro/DD and to make use of Trick, Acro has to go. Although the damage has improved, I’m more susceptible to CC and I can’t mitigate the damage well due to low endurance so while I’m busy staying alive, I’m not doing DPS.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

D/P in PvP
This build heavily relies on jumping into a fight with heavy burst to +1. The longer a fight takes, the less likely you are to contribute much. The Lead Attack basically killed off 15% of the damage on your opening burst only to give it back when it doesn’t matter as much.

The main idea of +1 is the Thief is coming from one node to help out on the other node. So it is presumed that the Thief will use Inf. Arrow and HS to get from node to node, which builds up the Lead Attack buff as soon as the Thief arrives at the destination to +1 a fight. I find it unlikely that the Thief will not have any LA-buff when they arrived to +1 a fight.

Yea, but before, you could use dash to move and save up your ini so that you could do something after the initial burst. If you use Inf arrow up until you engage, you may get the same +15% damage, but then you’ll be struggling to get the ini you need to head shot, shadow shot, or even blinding powder on a downed enemy afterwards.

Either way it’s a nerf.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Lead Attack in PvE
After running dps tests, there doesn’t seem to be any build using the Trickery line that outdpses the current meta staff build. You can get really close to the dps using DA/CS/Tr on double dagger, but your damage drops off heavily in situations where your rotation is interrupted or when you can’t attack from behind and you also lose access to Fist Flurry/Impact Strike.

My PvE build is CS/Acro/DD and to make use of Trick, Acro has to go. Although the damage has improved, I’m more susceptible to CC and I can’t mitigate the damage well due to low endurance so while I’m busy staying alive, I’m not doing DPS.

Acro in PvE?

…yea, I’m not even going to bother replying to this, rofl.

The whole point of the change is to make thieves less kitten when they’re not bursting, kind of like the upgrades they did to autoattacks.

All burst no sustain has been a thief problem for a while, and the current balance trend is to table that out by giving us the option of a really good burst, but not forcing thieves to take nothing but all burst builds.

I like the way it functions now, but I do feel like they should have changed the name of the trait from “lead attacks” to something else since “lead attacks” isn’t really representative of what it does any more. Should be called something like “momentum” or “fluid strikes” or something with the way it works now.

Lead attacks does nothing for sustain. However, I think you’re talking about sustained damage which isn’t really the issue since thieves typically can’t survive in a fight long enough to do sustained damage anyways.

In the meantime, it’s just a hit to one of the few things thieves do well.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, but before, you could use dash to move and save up your ini so that you could do something after the initial burst. If you use Inf arrow up until you engage, you may get the same +15% damage, but then you’ll be struggling to get the ini you need to head shot, shadow shot, or even blinding powder on a downed enemy afterwards.

Either way it’s a nerf.

You can definitely save 4 init for Shadow Shot and still get 15% damage boost on that hit. The thing is, it would now require the Thief to make a choice when to use their initiatives. I don’t see it as a nerf because the 15% damage boost is still there, they simply moved is away from the front.

Acro in PvE?

…yea, I’m not even going to bother replying to this, rofl.

Well, PvE is a big place with a very diverse playstyle, so yes, depending on what you’re doing in PvE, Acro is necessary.

Dahkeus.8243:

Lead attacks does nothing for sustain. However, I think you’re talking about sustained damage which isn’t really the issue since thieves typically can’t survive in a fight long enough to do sustained damage anyways.

In the meantime, it’s just a hit to one of the few things thieves do well.

That’s the problem they seem to be trying to fix. The inability to survive/deal sustained damage.

I’m not saying its perfect, but the last two patches seems to be trying to move in this direction of “good burst and okay sustain” rather than “all burst and no sustain”

This change uses a mechanic that has a broader use, in that it can be pre-charged for burst or left alone for a slower ramped damage. Maybe the numbers could be adjusted (more per stack, smaller cap stack?) but the meat of it is pretty solid in terms of build diversity on a trait line that can theoretically be viable on multiple kinds of builds.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, but before, you could use dash to move and save up your ini so that you could do something after the initial burst. If you use Inf arrow up until you engage, you may get the same +15% damage, but then you’ll be struggling to get the ini you need to head shot, shadow shot, or even blinding powder on a downed enemy afterwards.

Either way it’s a nerf.

You’re right but only when we’re opening with steal and our bigger/biggest burst(s) when we first arrive at a fight. I think this change favors a slightly more patient and deliberate approach which is generally required against the other meta builds and this game’s better players anyway.

I still have to try it in game, but you need just 1 infi arrow before setupping the stealth to get the +15%, since infi arrow 6 ini + bp 6 + hs 3 = 15.

So you can use infi arrow when you start to get back, then dash and you’ll still have the +6% from the infi arrow while having regenerated some ini already.

Lead Attacks always benefits the standard style of play which D/P features which consists of spamming 3, a HS at low health, and then AA’ing the target to death/cleaving downed.

The set most adversely affected by this change is power D/D, since it typically rides higher initiative at any given point in time with fewer worthwhile initiative-consuming abilities.

I like it for d/p. I get up to 15 stacks very quickly and stay there for pretty much the duration of the encounter. It’s much better than dealing less damage as you use initiative.