Guild Wars 2

Tbh I still think D/P is OP (but there are bigger offenders on other classes) and if you do not know why it is not really about the stealth. That being said when comparing D/D and D/P I think the gap in the sets is just too wide. D/D can a achieve more DPS due to CnD but that about where the advantages end. D/P can stick to a target better, blind better, can not be denied stealth, can daze, and still has access to the main DPS of a D/D build. I do not think Anet has any intentions of nerfing D/P but I think there needs to be some analysis of the D/D set.

Unless someone wants to go glass and instagib with it the counter play is pretty straight forward. Dodge CnD to deny stealth. The animation is long enough for that and obvious enough to spot most of the time (minimum height asura might be hard). Dancing dagger isn’t particularity useful (given how easily cripple is removed these days) and still has a cringe worthy initiative cost for what it does. Death blossom is nigh useless in a power set. Overall the set has relatively easy tells outside of stealth and no real defense beside the regular dodge.

I think the synergy between the skills in the D/P are simply superior to anything in D/D’s. I do not have direct solution but I do know things aren’t fair and while I do not expect each and every set to be equal to each other I do expect them to have clear differences. There is no defining quality in D/D that sets it above D/P in any area.

TheGuy.3568:

Tbh I still think D/P is OP (but there are bigger offenders on other classes) and if you do not know why it is not really about the stealth. That being said when comparing D/D and D/P I think the gap in the sets is just too wide. D/D can a achieve more DPS due to CnD but that about where the advantages end. D/P can stick to a target better, blind better, can not be denied stealth, can daze, and still has access to the main DPS of a D/D build. I do not think Anet has any intentions of nerfing D/P but I think there needs to be some analysis of the D/D set.

Unless someone wants to go glass and instagib with it the counter play is pretty straight forward. Dodge CnD to deny stealth. The animation is long enough for that and obvious enough to spot most of the time (minimum height asura might be hard). Dancing dagger isn’t particularity useful (given how easily cripple is removed these days) and still has a cringe worthy initiative cost for what it does. Death blossom is nigh useless in a power set. Overall the set has relatively easy tells outside of stealth and no real defense beside the regular dodge.

I think the synergy between the skills in the D/P are simply superior to anything in D/D’s. I do not have direct solution but I do know things aren’t fair and while I do not expect each and every set to be equal to each other I do expect them to have clear differences. There is no defining quality in D/D that sets it above D/P in any area.

I think D/P is fine where it’s. What did you expect for a class with the worst healing, worst health, shortest attack range in the game? Plus the D/P attack is so easily telegraphed… it’s so obvious it’s not even funny.

Stealth is “just about right” trade off for all those drawbacks.

It’s D/D that’s extremely weak in PvP. There’s just no word for it. Dps is higher, but just about everything else sucks. Death blossom is begging for longer evade frame like 1/2 – 3/4 second to make it a good defensive move.

CnD takes about 1 second to cast, and without sword, you’ve no access to CC eg. cripple, immobilize, which makes landing 1 a real PITA. Then there’s the 4 second revealed debuff as opposed to 3 and the stupidly high init cost.

There’s also no defensive move in D/D combo. Sword has infiltrator, and flanking strike, D/D has Death Blossom… so yeah… Sword snare costs 0 initiative and deals about 3k damage, D/D snare cost 3 initiative and deals ~700 damage.

D/D sucks man. If you take them to PvP instead of S/D or D/P you’re asking for kitten whooping. You can make it work sorta, but the amount of effort involved and the payoff isn’t really worth it. The only time it shines is in cheesy insta-glib build, because anyone that survived the spike, will surely kill a D/D thief. That’s just the reality.

A few other things of note.

Well the warrior has multiple CC, and skills that can pretty much one shot thieves, repeatable every 8 seconds. Insanely high regen rate and condition reduction and immunity from most stuns. Their reach is also much longer. A thief will be hit twice getting into their melee range before the warrior will be within dagger range. Given their health pool the thief will be 1/3rd dead (if not dead after being stunned), before they can even land a paltry 2k damage on their 32k some health pool.

Mesmers spam phantasms. 3-4 of them can take out thieves in pretty much one go. Those phantasms even auto target you and will attack the second you break out of stealth and will still hit you after you re-enter stealth, due to the AI. Meanwhile the real mesmer will snipe you with long range beam that continues to hit after you re-enter stealth. The beam also pretty much tracks your movement while in stealth, giving the mesmer information as to your location and probable intent (fight or flight)

Rangers spam spirits and can easily push you out of black powder field with their bow, which makes it difficult to enter stealth, given how slow the D/P stealth is setup. They can also stealth now, w/o ever having toe to toe like the thief.

Necros spam marks and endless conditions and will hit you, regardless of stealth or not. Their pet will also lock you down and can attack you while stealthed. Of course marks pretty much disclose your stealthed location to the necro, and they’re always surrounded with a few of them.

Ele can also chain stun (KD) while dishing about 20k AoE damage, and frankly more than enough to insta glib a few thieves at once (which has no access to stability) . They also spam cantrips and can get away faster and more safely with the 3-4 seconds invulnerability frame than thieves on Shadow Refuge. You can still swing around, and many times, the thieves would still end up dead.

Engineers can spam cc, which’s the bane of a lot of thieves, and high damage and ability to hold down location that best perhaps even the guardians.

Guardians can’t be taken down easily with D/P due to access to multiple heal and protection combined with the low-ish D/P dps.

Considering all of the above D/P is fine where it is, if not a bit lacking. D/P is only strong because D/D is especially kittenty in sPvP.

Bud you make it seem like every profession out there is an absolute nightmare! D/p is our most complete weapon set and all the rest of them (besides shortbow I’d say) are lacking.

D/D needs some attention but it still has some uses (pve mainly). Wouldn’t you rather they go off and make p/p a good set to choose? I’d rather take that set out of the trash before I work on d/d…. d/p already gives you much of the same flavor.

Hype.8032:

Bud you make it seem like every profession out there is an absolute nightmare! D/p is our most complete weapon set and all the rest of them (besides shortbow I’d say) are lacking.

D/D needs some attention but it still has some uses (pve mainly). Wouldn’t you rather they go off and make p/p a good set to choose? I’d rather take that set out of the trash before I work on d/d…. d/p already gives you much of the same flavor.

No, every profession out there played well, will give thief a hard time. The classes are actually very well balanced at this point.

Plus all non melee attack tends to suck , except for mesmer GS and Ranger’s Gatling bow.

You can prevent D/P from HSing through BPs, depending on what class / build you play and what abilities you have access to (for example scorpion wire into steal daze then follow up with w/e you want).

TheGuy.3568:

Tbh I still think D/P is OP (but there are bigger offenders on other classes) and if you do not know why it is not really about the stealth.

D/P isnt OP, but the missing intern CD of 3 sec from IoS make it to strong

Black Teagan.9215:

TheGuy.3568:

Tbh I still think D/P is OP (but there are bigger offenders on other classes) and if you do not know why it is not really about the stealth.

D/P isnt OP, but the missing intern CD of 3 sec from IoS make it very strong

what’s this intern CD of 3sec you’re talking about? LoS stands for line of sight?

Excalibur.9748:

Black Teagan.9215:

TheGuy.3568:

Tbh I still think D/P is OP (but there are bigger offenders on other classes) and if you do not know why it is not really about the stealth.

D/P isnt OP, but the missing intern CD of 3 sec from IoS make it very strong

what’s this intern CD of 3sec you’re talking about? LoS stands for line of sight?

I o S not LoS I mean Infusion of Shadow