D/P thief?
basically the same as dagger dagger, but instead of smashing “2” you use combos
Brotherhood of the Butterfly
Voted “most likely to die/fail” by peers
Voted “most likely to die/fail” by peers
Dagger Pistol can be used for a longer survival.
I personally love using Pistol dagger only.
It’s very flexible if used correctly.
Dagger Pistol is as well but I have had some limitations with it my self.
I don’t like to get in to melee range unless i’m stealing or using cloak and dagger to reset the fight/remove conditions.
Sorry wasn’t on the subject on this one hehe.
Dagger/Pistol uses a ton of initiative, so make sure you take all of the initiative returns you can.Your big damage is done similarly to dual dagger, but instead of cloak and dagger -> backstab -> heartseeker finisher, it’s blackpowder -> heartseeker -> backstab -> heartseeker again because the first one didn’t do any more damage than autoattack. Basically you’re sacrificing some burst damage, AoE poison and a cripple to gain a daze, a shadowstep, and an AoE bilnd.
(edited by bwillb.2165)
Dagger/Pistol uses a ton of initiative, so make sure you take all of the initiative returns you can.Your big damage is done similarly to dual dagger, but instead of cloak and dagger -> backstab -> heartseeker finisher, it’s blackpowder -> heartseeker -> backstab -> heartseeker again because the first one didn’t do any more damage than autoattack
And in the mids of all that, you have to hope they don’t roll away hehehe!
Dagger/Pistol uses a ton of initiative, so make sure you take all of the initiative returns you can.Your big damage is done similarly to dual dagger, but instead of cloak and dagger -> backstab -> heartseeker finisher, it’s blackpowder -> heartseeker -> backstab -> heartseeker again because the first one didn’t do any more damage than autoattack
And in the mids of all that, you have to hope they don’t roll away hehehe!
Not too big of a problem. If you use heartseeker from inside the smoke cloud towards someone outside of the smoke cloud it will still stealth you.
The biggest problem with this build is teammates. If someone uses a combo blast ability right after you drop blackpowder, it will stealth you, which will then break when your heartseeker hits and give you the “revealed” debuff, completely negating your ability to backstab for 3 seconds.
(edited by bwillb.2165)
Does it blind on stealth btw? or was that a trait?
I know i blind when I stealth i think.
and also
I base my comment off of most players that just spam and don’t pace them selves. I mean once the spam has started you can use say, Withdraw and watch them doing everything to air.
Personally I prefer dagger/pistol over dagger/dagger for the daze and blind. This set would be amazing if Shadow Shot wasn’t so lackluster for PVP, it is great for PVE at least.
The biggest problem with this build is teammates. If someone uses a combo blast ability right after you drop blackpowder, it will stealth you, which will then break when your heartseeker hits and give you the “revealed” debuff, completely negating your ability to backstab for 3 seconds.
Not only this, but if there are other combo fields out there, the leap will often combo with one of those instead of your blackpowder which is also annoying.
(edited by KaiserCX.7103)
Does it blind on stealth btw? or was that a trait?
I know i blind when I stealth i think.and also
I base my comment off of most players that just spam and don’t pace them selves. I mean once the spam has started you can use say, Withdraw and watch them doing everything to air.
That’s a trait.
If you just spam abilities blindly, it doesn’t matter what build you use, you’re going to be decent against terrible players and terrible against decent players.
Oh yeah and generally if they’re standing still I will Shadow Shot to them, put up Black Powder and auto-attack a bit till they move out or it’s about to run out, then I Heartseeker and then backstab them. If they are moving I might just do Black Powder from far away and Heartseeker in then go for backstab as bwillb said. After that it depends on their HP, if they’re half or less I’ll go for Heartseeker, if not I’ll Blinding Powder and go for another Backstab.
Personally I prefer dagger/pistol over dagger/dagger for the daze and blind. This set would be amazing if Shadow Shot wasn’t so lackluster for PVP, it is great for PVE at least.
The biggest problem with this build is teammates. If someone uses a combo blast ability right after you drop blackpowder, it will stealth you, which will then break when your heartseeker hits and give you the “revealed” debuff, completely negating your ability to backstab for 3 seconds.
Not only this, but if there are other combo fields out there, the leap will often combo with one of those instead of your blackpowder which is also annoying.
Shadow Shot bad for PvP? It’s a 900 range gap closer that blinds them and does moderate damage for 4 initiative. What do you want it to do? Hit like a under 25% Heartseeker? lol
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
@Ashanor Won’t let me quote. No I want it to not root me so it’s not wasted initiative if they are moving slightly, this skill is horrible if the person is moving around and I don’t mean dodge, just straight up movement.
EDIT: I’d be perfectly fine with them even slowing down the 2nd attack (not too much, we don’t need super slow moves) or reducing the damage some as long as it doesn’t root me.
(edited by KaiserCX.7103)
KaiserCX.7103:Not only this, but if there are other combo fields out there, the leap will often combo with one of those instead of your blackpowder which is also annoying.
Yeah, that’s definitely a problem. I quite often get Chaos Armor instead of Stealth when there are friendly mesmers nearby.
@Ashanor Won’t let me quote. No I want it to not root me so it’s not wasted initiative if they are moving slightly, this skill is horrible if the person is moving around and I don’t mean dodge, just straight up movement.
EDIT: I’d be perfectly fine with them even slowing down the 2nd attack (not too much, we don’t need super slow moves) or reducing the damage some as long as it doesn’t root me.
That is more of a bug than a problem with the skills functionality imo.
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
True I suppose, but you should be using blinding powder liberally anyway. It’s easily the #1 survivability skill for thieves.
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
I’d rather dump my initiative into it at the beginning then use utility to stealth a second time while initiative regenerates.
That is more of a bug than a problem with the skills functionality imo.
I agree, Shadow Shot would be a great skill if it weren’t for the root, I really hope they fix it.
(edited by KaiserCX.7103)
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
I’d rather dump my initiative into it at the beginning then use utility to stealth a second time while initiative regenerates.
I guess, but if you aren’t speced for the extra 3 initiative, you just burned 75% of your initiative just to do a small amount of damage and get into stealth (previous to the backstab, if you land it from behind).
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
I’d rather dump my initiative into it at the beginning then use utility to stealth a second time while initiative regenerates.
I guess, but if you aren’t speced for the extra 3 initiative, you just burned 75% of your initiative just to do a small amount of damage and get into stealth.
Ideally you’d be traited into regaining initiative on critical and regaining initiative in stealth. These are great for backstab builds.
Personally, I think you need to rely less on Blinding Powder – Heartseeker (Considering the cost is 9 initiative) to get into stealth if you use a D/P build and focus more of your utility around stealth. I mean, sure, if you got a BP up anyway feel free to use it, but don’t use it in every time you want to enter stealth. It is just too expensive.
I’d rather dump my initiative into it at the beginning then use utility to stealth a second time while initiative regenerates.
I guess, but if you aren’t speced for the extra 3 initiative, you just burned 75% of your initiative just to do a small amount of damage and get into stealth (previous to the backstab, if you land it from behind).
It only takes 7 initiative with the trait that gives you back 2 initiative when you use a stealth skill, it’s still a big initiative dump with that I agree. If I’m using it from far away I’ll generally have like 90% of my initiative back before I backstab though. Admittedly if Shadow Shot was more reliable that would definitely change my play style more.
Ideally you’d be traited into regaining initiative on critical and regaining initiative in stealth. These are great for backstab builds.
Yep, I take both of those as well as the gain 2 initiative every 10 seconds under acrobatics.
Ah, didn’t realize the give two back worked on Heartseeker. I guess that makes it a little better, but still a hefty price.
you can discuss until your blue in the face, but here is how it worked for me in practice
D/D serviceable
D/P imo better (especially in 1v1) but more initiative hungry. tho my spec doesnt take the +3 ini from trickery, it does get 2 initiative back on stealth, and 2 (3 with signet) more inietiative every 10 seconds
just for an idea i go 30crit, 30 stealth, 10 trick (optional, i like thrill of hte crime)
i get haste weapon rune and haste trait.
stealth heal, shadow refuge, runspeed signet (optional) and ini regen signet (probably optional too)
fights usually go shadow shot>steal>BP>autoattack. i do very high autoattack damage with this build, ESPECIALLY if one of my haste effects kick in. ive killed people by autoing them while they whif in my BP radius. once i get some attention its HS leading into backstab.
after that it just depends on whats happening.
oh i also have shadows rejuvination (300 healing with shadow arts tree). a lot of the time in a fight after i get my initial burst i put down shadow refuge to heal up while i rez teamates.
but BP ability to protect against enemy executes and help gaurantee your own exectutes on enemy, head shots ability also to interrupt important spells or executes from range. I think its the best rogue weapon set for support while also being the best 1v1 weapon set.
even tho i only have 12 ini, i regen ini fast enough that i rarely have issues.
maybe its cuz of my natural playstyle but imo pistol offhand is the best utility a rogue can bring, and i do inifitly better then D/D even with learning to land CnD often.