Guild Wars 2

Now, I’m still quite new to this game, but I’m slowly learning new things and catching on. It’s been a blast so far. And a lot of you have been super helpful on these forums, answering my noobish questions. So here’s one more for you:

While researching some d/d critical builds, I seem to find a lot of mix between people who put upwards of 25 into deadly arts, and some people who sometimes put 30 into shadow arts. But almost no build includes them both.

So my (noobish) question is this: how do you decide between deadly arts and shadow arts for a crit build? It seems the stealth utility offered from the shadow arts tree is invaluable. But I see the obvious bonus you receive from the deadly arts tree. So what are your thoughts on these two?

(Also, I’m at work and I’ve had to wa away from the message a few times, sorry if it sounds really scatterbrained. I’ll try to clarify later if I must,)

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

The likely reason you’re looking for is that Critical Strikes is extremely important. The massive backstab crits dagger dagger is known for hinge off of critical hits. Ignoring Critical Strikes means that not only is your base precision lower than it would be normally, but you also fail to have either the Executioner or Hidden Killer traits (of which, it is arguable which one is better to have – though I personally prefer executioner). On top of which, any crits you do have won’t hit very hard since you also give up your Critical Hit Damage modifier bonus from ignoring Critical Strikes.

That said, having 10 points in power for MUG is not uncommon, as it is extra initial burst and a pocket heal.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

Right, so that’s an option but wouldn’t the critical strike tree be really detrimental to miss out on, if I am going for a d/d crit build?

Like Elan said, that tree seems really, really useful. And where do people pull points from to put 10 in deadly arts? Which right now, seems to be a tree I might skip. BUT, my concern is that my base power could be really low, and those crits won’t hit very hard, even if they hit often.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmCO3eS6E/JFy2jeqC5JOFOVS5VAs0KQTA-jUBBYfCiJPFRjtqpIasKkYaXER1A-w

Something like this would grant you mug and increased back/side damage, but it would be at the cost of vitality. That said, you end up with a lot of condition removal and blind on stealth.

Or

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmCO3eS6E/JFy2jeqC5JOFOVSpVgm6KgVA-jUBBYfCiJPFRjtqpIasKkYaXER1A-w

5% less damage from the back or sides, but you have about 1000 more HP and easy access to swiftness and a huge speed boost. Can even trade out some trinkets for more Zerker if you really wanted to.

Elan.7523:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmCO3eS6E/JFy2jeqC5JOFOVS5VAs0KQTA-jUBBYfCiJPFRjtqpIasKkYaXER1A-w

Something like this would grant you mug and increased back/side damage, but it would be at the cost of vitality. That said, you end up with a lot of condition removal and blind on stealth.

Or

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoYVlUmCO3eS6E/JFy2jeqC5JOFOVSpVgm6KgVA-jUBBYfCiJPFRjtqpIasKkYaXER1A-w

5% less damage from the back or sides, but you have about 1000 more HP and easy access to swiftness and a huge speed boost. Can even trade out some trinkets for more Zerker if you really wanted to.

Haven’t had a chance to look over them, but I like the idea of build 2. Thanks for your input!

To be fair, as a disclaimer I am not a dagger/dagger thief (except on certain rare situations). I mainhand sword, generally speaking. By and large, I just plain ignore the power line, as I hit plenty hard enough without it, and usually run a 0/30/20/20/0 setup. It is probably not minmaxed or ideal, but it works both in PvE and WvW so I cannot complain.

GinghamLion.3614:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

Right, so that’s an option but wouldn’t the critical strike tree be really detrimental to miss out on, if I am going for a d/d crit build?

Like Elan said, that tree seems really, really useful. And where do people pull points from to put 10 in deadly arts? Which right now, seems to be a tree I might skip. BUT, my concern is that my base power could be really low, and those crits won’t hit very hard, even if they hit often.

The whole point of not taking Critical Strikes is because of your sigil of intelligence. Swap to your second dagger set in stealth and backstab for 6-8k. You’re also tanky as kitten.

Almost all thief power/ precision builds start with 30 points in Critical Strikes. After that, there are two choices for your secondary line:

- Shadow Arts grants easy access to condition clears, steady healing and the ability to reset fights

- Deadly Arts provides more damage

Pick what you need. For WvW, most thieves choose Shadow Arts. For pure PvE, most thieves go with Deadly. For SPvP… I have no idea what people are going to do

Viking Jorun.5413:

GinghamLion.3614:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

Right, so that’s an option but wouldn’t the critical strike tree be really detrimental to miss out on, if I am going for a d/d crit build?

Like Elan said, that tree seems really, really useful. And where do people pull points from to put 10 in deadly arts? Which right now, seems to be a tree I might skip. BUT, my concern is that my base power could be really low, and those crits won’t hit very hard, even if they hit often.

The whole point of not taking Critical Strikes is because of your sigil of intelligence. Swap to your second dagger set in stealth and backstab for 6-8k. You’re also tanky as kitten.

Ohhhh. That went way over my head, my bad. Noob probs.
That seems like a setup for strictly pvp? Losing the utility of the SB seems like a problem. But I will keep that build in mind for down the road (lvl 22 still. Woo!)

Still seems like the critical damage will be low, however. Literally nothing on the example build magnifies the critical damage output. A high power with a crit on swap option seems like more of a sustained damage setup vs a spike damage setup, unless that was your goal in the first place.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

That is creative, but where would it be useful? It’s too tanky for sustained damage in PvE (heaps of power, but you crit once every other weapon swap, and you have no crit damage). Also, a build with mediocre burst damage and paltry condition clears is not optimal for for WvW or PvP.

Why suggest this build to someone new to the thief class?

Oghier.7419:

Viking Jorun.5413:

Why not both?

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlUmaO3eS6E+5EC3DnKpaKtH0UD2SdF4KA-jUCBofFRjmgAk4AmKYIaZPFRjt2qIasKbYqXER1WzFRrWKgLWGB-w

That is creative, but where would it be useful? It’s too tanky for sustained damage in PvE (heaps of power, but you crit once every other weapon swap, and you have no crit damage). Also, a build with mediocre burst damage and paltry condition clears is not optimal for for WvW or PvP.

Why suggest this build to someone new to the thief class?

You ditch the mainhand dagger on the second set entirely. You don’t need it. Once you have maximum stacks you ditch the offhand dagger on the primary set and it acts as two weapon sets while maintaining the on-swap capabilities of the sigil of intelligence giving you a guaranteed crit each weapon swap. Its utility in zergs may not give you the direct burst that full zerk constantly has, but it’s a pretty good balance between damage and survivability.