Guild Wars 2

hello guys
i was trying some thief’s build in sPvP, and i noticed just a few people uses a d/d build.
I’d like to know if is d/d viable… and if anyone of you uses that build, can u tell me the traits you are using? actually i tried only 2-6-6-0-0 d/d.

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth. D/p 2/6/0/0/6 is however very strong and viable

Carpboy.7145:

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth. D/p 2/6/0/0/6 is however very strong and viable

Well i know ’bout the others build like d/p 2 6 0 0 6 or s/d 2 0 0 6 6.. but to be honest i was looking for some “viable” traits to use in pvp with d/d.

No, it is not viable, since Cloak and Dagger, your bread and butter for bursting (the only thing D/D shines at) is reduced by 33%. More importantly, D/D has no “natural” defenses, it usually relies on Cloaked in Shadow (SA trait) for defense, and as said, SA is not viable/useful in spvp.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cloak_and_Dagger

Wonder if a 6/6/2/0/0 with cloaked in shadows could work… But trickery is just too good in a PvP environment! >_<

Honestly, I don’t think that a D/D SA build is as bad as people say for sPvP. The meta builds are better for sure, but if you know how to play D/D without camping in stealth and can utilize the blind on stealth trait well, it’s not bad.

Dahkeus.8243:

Honestly, I don’t think that a D/D SA build is as bad as people say for sPvP. The meta builds are better for sure, but if you know how to play D/D without camping in stealth and can utilize the blind on stealth trait well, it’s not bad.

A 6 deep shadow arts build won’t work too good in the current meta, but by going 2 points in for the blind on stealth it can be more viable indeed. Having the AoE blind is almost mandatory to survive hambows. Trickery is just too good of a trait line, so are Critical Strikes, so if you think mug isn’t needed then it is a go ^^

The only reason I can think of where 6 in SA are ok is if you are only focused on decapping, but thief is way too good to only be a decap bot. 2 points for blind should be enough in most situations ^^

D/D is still a viable weapon set in Spvp, it’s just a lot more challenging to use than D/P and S/D. I use 5 6 0 0 3 with D/D and it works out for me. The only problem with D/D is that it is a harder to 1v1 unless you can burst them down quickly.

The only reason why SA trait line is not good is because too much damage is given up for 30 points into it, and it will only benefit yourself and not help your team.

Carpboy.7145:

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth.

Players who says things like this always makes me laugh. SA in PvP is used to travel from point to point in stealth — thus giving them the upperhand when ambushing someone guarding a point. With this advantage, the Thief can dispose of the point guard before the Thief will ever need to stealth again.

Simply put:
Stealth -> go to point 1 -> kill enemy -> cap
Stealth -> go to point 2 -> kill enemy -> cap

Only noobs tries to cap a point while in stealth.

There is no reason to play d/d, d/p outperforms it in every situation.

The 4 second revealed is a big problem for me. You get used to being able to CnD after a full dagger auto attack chain in PVE and WVW, so it feels unnatural and clunky when you can’t do that in sPVP.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Carpboy.7145:

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth.

Players who says things like this always makes me laugh. SA in PvP is used to travel from point to point in stealth — thus giving them the upperhand when ambushing someone guarding a point. With this advantage, the Thief can dispose of the point guard before the Thief will ever need to stealth again.

Simply put:
Stealth -> go to point 1 -> kill enemy -> cap
Stealth -> go to point 2 -> kill enemy -> cap

Only noobs tries to cap a point while in stealth.

I’d like to see this happen in a pvp match — stealthing from point to point, ambushing a bunker turret engi/guard… Swiftly killing them with ease. You’ll sink faster than a rock :/

D/D isn’t as viable as S/D or D/P during the current meta. Hopefully they will show some more love to D/D in the up and coming patch. It would be nice to feel like a traditional thief for once.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Carpboy.7145:

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth.

Players who says things like this always makes me laugh. SA in PvP is used to travel from point to point in stealth — thus giving them the upperhand when ambushing someone guarding a point. With this advantage, the Thief can dispose of the point guard before the Thief will ever need to stealth again.

Simply put:
Stealth -> go to point 1 -> kill enemy -> cap
Stealth -> go to point 2 -> kill enemy -> cap

Only noobs tries to cap a point while in stealth.

Right. Remind me how many top thieves run any SA at all in spvp

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Carpboy.7145:

D/d, and shadow arts in general isnt viable in spvp. This is because you decap points while in stealth.

Players who says things like this always makes me laugh. SA in PvP is used to travel from point to point in stealth — thus giving them the upperhand when ambushing someone guarding a point. With this advantage, the Thief can dispose of the point guard before the Thief will ever need to stealth again.

Simply put:
Stealth -> go to point 1 -> kill enemy -> cap
Stealth -> go to point 2 -> kill enemy -> cap

Only noobs tries to cap a point while in stealth.

They’re not talking about sitting on a point out of combat in stealth. What they mean is that if you’re fighting someone on a point and stealthing, you’re not contesting the point. I.e. you go to home to attack someone trying to steal it and when you stealth during the fight, they start decapping the point until you come out of stealth.

panicbutton.1053:

I’d like to see this happen in a pvp match — stealthing from point to point, ambushing a bunker turret engi/guard… Swiftly killing them with ease. You’ll sink faster than a rock :/

D/D isn’t as viable as S/D or D/P during the current meta. Hopefully they will show some more love to D/D in the up and coming patch. It would be nice to feel like a traditional thief for once.

I wasn’t talking about D/D or any weapon set. Read what I wrote.

Carpboy.7145:

Right. Remind me how many top thieves run any SA at all in spvp

PvP is all about group effort and group strategy. You don’t see SA on top because it’s not part of their team composition and strategy — doesn’t necessarily means it sucks — people just don’t know how and when to use it.

Like what you’re implying, trying to cap a point is not the top priority, it’s taking out the guard. So even if stealth decaps the point, you can cap it after taking out the guard.

Assuming of course, that since you opt-in for SA that you’ll have a high end burst damage.

Dahkeus.8243:

They’re not talking about sitting on a point out of combat in stealth. What they mean is that if you’re fighting someone on a point and stealthing, you’re not contesting the point.

Eh? They can sit in the middle of the point if they want. There are many ways to force them out of it to contest it by circling around the edge. The priority is to take out the guard then cap the point. If you can’t do that, then the problem is not SA now is it?

I.e. you go to home to attack someone trying to steal it and when you stealth during the fight, they start decapping the point until you come out of stealth.

So what if it decaps? Your job is to get rid of someone trying to cap it. If you cannot do that job alone, then maybe you shouldn’t be playing Thief and roll a Warrior or Engineer instead.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

They’re not talking about sitting on a point out of combat in stealth. What they mean is that if you’re fighting someone on a point and stealthing, you’re not contesting the point.

Eh? They can sit in the middle of the point if they want. There are many ways to force them out of it to contest it by circling around the edge. The priority is to take out the guard then cap the point. If you can’t do that, then the problem is not SA now is it?

I.e. you go to home to attack someone trying to steal it and when you stealth during the fight, they start decapping the point until you come out of stealth.

So what if it decaps? Your job is to get rid of someone trying to cap it. If you cannot do that job alone, then maybe you shouldn’t be playing Thief and roll a Warrior or Engineer instead.

PvP 101: Points decap faster than they can get capped.

If you’re playing a spec that will let a player start to decap a point, even if it’s a partial decap, then your team loses precious time while you sit and cap or recap the point (assuming you win the fight). Considering that other specs can kill players without losing cap progress during the fight, that makes the spec inherently inferior.

In a magical world where D/D one-shots everyone and no other spec does, yea, it would be fine if you used stealth, but in reality D/P will kill just as quickly without losing any cap progress.

The simple fact is that blind and evade defense are superior to stealth defense in sPvP. This is why S/D and D/P are and have been superior to D/D. This is also why skilled D/D thieves such as Yishis still say that you shouldn’t go D/D SA in sPvP.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

panicbutton.1053:

I’d like to see this happen in a pvp match — stealthing from point to point, ambushing a bunker turret engi/guard… Swiftly killing them with ease. You’ll sink faster than a rock :/

D/D isn’t as viable as S/D or D/P during the current meta. Hopefully they will show some more love to D/D in the up and coming patch. It would be nice to feel like a traditional thief for once.

I wasn’t talking about D/D or any weapon set. Read what I wrote.

Neither was I. Read my post again. First part was towards you, second part was a general thread topic response.

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dahkeus.8243:

They’re not talking about sitting on a point out of combat in stealth. What they mean is that if you’re fighting someone on a point and stealthing, you’re not contesting the point.

Eh? They can sit in the middle of the point if they want. There are many ways to force them out of it to contest it by circling around the edge. The priority is to take out the guard then cap the point. If you can’t do that, then the problem is not SA now is it?

I.e. you go to home to attack someone trying to steal it and when you stealth during the fight, they start decapping the point until you come out of stealth.

So what if it decaps? Your job is to get rid of someone trying to cap it. If you cannot do that job alone, then maybe you shouldn’t be playing Thief and roll a Warrior or Engineer instead.

PvP 101: Points decap faster than they can get capped.

If you’re playing a spec that will let a player start to decap a point, even if it’s a partial decap, then your team loses precious time while you sit and cap or recap the point (assuming you win the fight). Considering that other specs can kill players without losing cap progress during the fight, that makes the spec inherently inferior.

You’re not making any sense. If the team strategy is to go 4-1, where that 1 is an SA Thief capping points. The enemy either mirror your strategy where 2 points are going back and forth, or they will risk a 3v4 to guard 2 points. In a 4-1 scenario, the Thief will always cap a point. As you say, decapping is faster and with Thieve’s mobility, they can out cap whoever is assigned to guard the points. And with that mobility, the Thief can assist on the group fight in between capping.

In a 3-2 scenario where there’s one guard in each point, there’s really no other choice but to overwhelm the group of 3 by going 3v5, then the team splits to a 2-1-2 double teaming each points and leaving one at the point as guard.

Like I said, it’s part of the team strategy on what to build, but doesn’t necessarily means that SA sucks.

In a magical world where D/D one-shots everyone and no other spec does, yea, it would be fine if you used stealth, but in reality D/P will kill just as quickly without losing any cap progress.

If D/P also uses stealth, even without traiting for SA, the result will still be a decap. And here I am thought you already knew that.

The simple fact is that blind and evade defense are superior to stealth defense in sPvP. This is why S/D and D/P are and have been superior to D/D. This is also why skilled D/D thieves such as Yishis still say that you shouldn’t go D/D SA in sPvP.

I wasn’t specifically talking about D/D SA…I was responding to the comment about SA in particular.

I’m not making any sense? You’re going way off into detailed team strategies and missing the point completely.

It’s simple: If you’re a thief fighting alone on a point that the enemy does not already completely control, regardless of what else is going on in the game, you will lose progress on your point when you use stealth as a tactic.

Yes, IF a D/P uses stealth, they will have the point decap as well, but they don’t rely on stealth like a D/D thief. A D/P thief can utilize blinds to shut down their target in a way that allows them to use more regular attacks without getting destroyed.

Not only does a D/D thief rely on stealthing much more for taking down a target, but a SA D/D thief has a significant amount of their traits designed specifically to assist their stealth.

Vincent, you’re clinging on to dust. Literally everyone disagrees with you. This isn’t the first thread where you run wild with things you don’t know about

Dahkeus.8243:

I’m not making any sense? You’re going way off into detailed team strategies and missing the point completely.

It’s simple: If you’re a thief fighting alone on a point that the enemy does not already completely control, regardless of what else is going on in the game, you will lose progress on your point when you use stealth as a tactic.

You can’t disregard what’s going on in the game, that’s where you’re not making any sense. If your team is going 4v4 on a point #1 and they have one guarding at point #2, a Thief can cap the open point #3, then tip the balance by helping your team at point #1. When their guard stays in one place while your team is dominating point #1.

If that guard starts to move to point #3, the Thief can disengage from point #1 and head to point #2. SA allows the Thief to effectively disengage and appear full health and no conditions.

If your team is fighting 4v4 at point #1, and you think you can take out the guard at point #2, SA allows you to have the advantage.

You’re using a scenario where a Thief is defending the point — that’s not what I’m saying at all. If the SA Thief is put on a defensive there are many aspects of that player, his team, and his build that is wrong. It has nothing to do with SA.

I specifically said that SA is a strategy to go from point to point, yet you’re arguing that SA cannot defend a point.

Yes, IF a D/P uses stealth, they will have the point decap as well, but they don’t rely on stealth like a D/D thief. A D/P thief can utilize blinds to shut down their target in a way that allows them to use more regular attacks without getting destroyed.

Are you honestly telling me that you can shut down a turret Engi with blind? Is that what you’re saying? And doing regular attacks without stealth?

Not only does a D/D thief rely on stealthing much more for taking down a target, but a SA D/D thief has a significant amount of their traits designed specifically to assist their stealth.

Any SA build is designed that way regardless of what weapon set you use — and the idea that D/D relies on stealth shows how narrow the players’ perspective have become.

I logged in just to say this. Why cant the standard sd acro or dp trickery disengage just as easily? Shadow step lets you move 1200 units instantly and also breaks stuns. Thats not exclusive to SA, any thief can use it. Most of the time youll be fine with just 1 or 2 infililtrator arrows, so you don’t even have to blow a CD. At which point your health will start regenerating due to breaking combat. There goes your #1 reason for SA in spvp, being able to disengage.

On top of that, the standard dp trickery does a hell of a lot more dmg than some SA build which in the situation you described helps your team wreck at mid even more. In addition because of the trickery trait line you provide solid support for your team members while also being one of the only classes able to prevent a lich wipe or stab stomp.

SA cant do any of that. All SA does is increase your 1v1 potential in a game mode designed around 5v5. Thats why SA is not viable in spvp.

There’s a reason no top players use it. Do you really think they’ve just never tried it? Remember how everyone used to think trickery was trash? Now its a staple in any good spvp build. People have tried everything at this point in the game. The meta builds that people play now have been through all sorts of variations, but there is a reason for the traits being the way they are, and believe me its not just because some guy thought trickery was pretty neat.

Carpboy.7145:

I logged in just to say this. Why cant the standard sd acro or dp trickery disengage just as easily? Shadow step lets you move 1200 units instantly and also breaks stuns. Thats not exclusive to SA, any thief can use it. Most of the time youll be fine with just 1 or 2 infililtrator arrows, so you don’t even have to blow a CD. At which point your health will start regenerating due to breaking combat. There goes your #1 reason for SA in spvp, being able to disengage.

Part of disengaging is removing any conditions you’ve acquired and healing yourself back up. Sure you can disengage using acro and trickery, but without removing all conditions, even if you’re already across the map, you’re still in combat.

On top of that, the standard dp trickery does a hell of a lot more dmg than some SA build which in the situation you described helps your team wreck at mid even more. In addition because of the trickery trait line you provide solid support for your team members while also being one of the only classes able to prevent a lich wipe or stab stomp.

I’m not arguing against any trickery build because I know the value of that trait line. Nor I am arguing against D/P build either.

SA cant do any of that. All SA does is increase your 1v1 potential in a game mode designed around 5v5. Thats why SA is not viable in spvp.

A game mode designed around 5v5 will only have one strategic point to capture — and since there are three, there is a potential for XvY.

There’s a reason no top players use it. Do you really think they’ve just never tried it?

No I don’t. I’m sure they did. But they have to pick a strategy and build around it.

Remember how everyone used to think trickery was trash? Now its a staple in any good spvp build. People have tried everything at this point in the game. The meta builds that people play now have been through all sorts of variations, but there is a reason for the traits being the way they are, and believe me its not just because some guy thought trickery was pretty neat.

But Trickery is pretty neat and always have been. The popularity of Trickery is simple due to the changes made on Critical Strikes and if CS were ever to roll back, Trickery will lose its popularity. It’s hardly a “staple”.

panicbutton.1053:

Vincent, you’re clinging on to dust. Literally everyone disagrees with you. This isn’t the first thread where you run wild with things you don’t know about

Agreed…I think I’m done replying. I’ve seen enough of his posts to see where this is going…

Does he really think he can solo any of the current meta pointholders as d/d SA?

Like I posted before, I think SA is not viable in Spvp because too much burst is given up that could be going into Deadly Arts or Trickery. I play my thief in spvp as a glass cannon who’s job is to kill enemy squishies and help burst down bunkers. If I can’t do that because I have points in a defensive trait line then its not going to work as well.

Yes SA will allow you to have more survivability, but I think what most people are saying is a good thief has good positioning so there wouldn’t be a reason to be more tanky.
A good way to play this game is start out tanky and slowly make your way towards glass as you get better at positioning and dodging key attacks.