Guild Wars 2

Hoi follow Thiefs,

I love playing condition hybrid builds with my thief, and so I’m plaing with the Deadly Arts specialization line. After the rework, this specialization is the condi oriented one, but I think, the 2 choosable traits for this are very weak.

So I want to create this Topic esp. for this 2 Traits “Dagger Training” and “Potent Poison”.

Dagger Training: 2s poison with 33% Chance at hit…even for a Adept trait this is really bad and nor that viable in condition builds. But we have to think of the whole traits and skills and the combinations, so this should’nt be to powerful.
My Idea for this is only a low tweak: Increase poison duration from 2s to 3s.
Additionaly expand the effect to Pistol, cause ist also a hybrid condi/dmg-weapon (main hand) and rename this trait a little bit.

Potent Poison: Increase Duration of poison by 33% and dmg by 10%. And this is GM-Trait? It’s very bad….how are the possibilities to inflict poison for thief? Steal (if traited), Dagger Training (if traited), Spider Venom, SB#4, and the new physical from Daredevil in the future. It’s not that much but the durations are between 6s and 10s IIRC, exept Dagger Training (meh).
So My Idea for this: *Increase the dmg done by poison to 25% Duration can stay at it is, I think it’s ok and would’nt make this OP. Theres also the possibility, to additional increase the poison duration to 50%, but maybe this is too op combined with some skills and the dmg increase.

Thoughts? Are there other Condi-Players, that would love to see this traits improved?

What i rhink will work is an app rate of 50 percent on dagger training along with a 1 second boost to duration.

In potent poison I was looking at keeping the same but add "transfer onecondition when poisoning an enemy icd 10 seconds.

otherwise I was thinking potency to 25 percent with 50 percent duration boost..

Condi transfer doesn’t fit the trait IMO…but it’s a nice idea, tough. =)

I could see changing the damage multiplier on poison from 10% -> 25%. Problem with stacking poisons is that they get their main dps from denying heals. Upping the dps multiplier for those willing to trait into poison over improvisation seems fair.

I don’t think there’s a single player out there that thinks Dagger Training is strong. I’ve tried really hard to make it work myself, but it’s just completely outclassed by Mug.

Edit: Actually just had a thought. What if instead of upping the damage multiplier for poisons, they dropped the damage multiplier altogether and upped the heal reduction? Something like a 50% or 66% heal reduction would be interesting and quiet strong in the current PvP meta. An alternative would be to drop the duration multiplier and boost the current poison damage multiplier. That would make the trait more exclusive to condi-builds and boost the damage for folks using poison for PvE content.

dagger training feels kinda useless to me. Poison isn’t bursty like burning – it’s a DoT condition, so having only 2s is more or less irrelevant (I usually put down 15-20s duration poison stacks, and even those are meh).

potent poison is nice, but it’s never in a million years gonna compare to executioner. maybe, if we could drop 20-30 stacks on an enemy, or if we had much more access to poison, but it’s just not a real choice.

What people should be considering now is P/P sneak attack builds.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAqalsMhOnY3Tw0Jw/ELIFl3LslbAXDEALw87X/7PA-T1RHABupHgR1fyd/h7UCCwJAQgHAwRK/IFwiCrA-w

Black Powder -> Bounding Dodger (dodge backwards to avoid damaging something) -> Sneak Attack

Over and over and over, and using pistol 4 to trigger pressure striking and perplex runes.

Dagger training:
Dagger skills have a 25% chance to cause 2 seconds of poison.
Lotus strike causes Torment. (Just throwing this out there. Duration and stacks up to debate. Maybe even replace it with vulnerability. I just feel like tacking an additional effect to lotus strike would be perfect.)

potent poison:
Foes poisoned by the thief take 10% more damage from conditions. (This includes the poison itself.)
(This effect is strong. I don’t even know how I feel about retaining the 25% increased duration on poison. That’s how scared I’m of this trait.)

I don’t see how adding a 1.1 damage multiplier to the already weak condi spec’s of a thief is strong. If anything it’d bring it to baseline at best.

Perplexity runes don’t exist in pvp, I think the idea of using them in WvW/PvE is cool though (Same feelings extend towards trapper runes).

Still think the idea of having potent poison give 50/66% healing reduction to poisons would be an interesting one. Would give the thief a very interesting niche to fill.

Dagger Training should refresh the duration of both Poison and Bleeding as long as you are hitting the target.

Problem solved.

To make Deadly Arts conditions better, I’d probably want to make Needle Trap better. Needle Trap is currently balanced for when poison did not stack. If the poison stacked on this skill, it would be a really dangerous condition burst tool. Dagger Training could use some buffs too. Making the entire autoattack apply poison would be really stong. I’d also be up for moving this trait to the master tier and having the attacks on d/d skills all gain some sort of condition effect (Ex: Backstab applies several stacks of poison, Heartseeker applies Torment)

I would like to see Dagger Training’s poison application both improved and separated from the dagger. Specs like P/D should be able to passively put poison on too! Even with Dagger mainhand it’s not a great trait right now, so what’s there to lose by opening it up?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Dagger Training should refresh the duration of both Poison and Bleeding as long as you are hitting the target.

This is a very good suggestion.

I compared our GM Potent Poison with Revenant minor Venom Enhancement, which increases the poison Duration by 50%….seems totally fair to me -.-

In that case….switch Potent Poison to adept tier and move Dagger Training to GM.
Increase poison-dmg for Potent Poison to 20%, leave Duration increase as it is and make Dagger Training to increase applied poison and bleeding by
3s with 33% chance per hit and make it ICD of 3s.

I was running Crucible of Eternity yesterday with the goal of assembling a set of Dire gear. After I completed the 3 paths with a pug group, I asked the warrior a few questions regarding PvE condition viability. He has ascended gear / legendary wep and he was pretty good (playing and helping with hints / suggestions).
He said that the only decent Condi option for Pve would be a Condi Engineer, and only for Long fights (fractals I guess?).
He was convinced that Condi Thief is not a wise choice for PvE since it lacks sustained damage.

Now you should also know that I’m not a very knowledgeable gw2 player and I’m learning new things daily.

So.

Conditions for pve… can they rival the zerk dmg output? What about group support and survability / mobility?

IMO Pistol Whip is a really good defensive skill, and a condi build will not have that.

rogerwilko.6895:

I was running Crucible of Eternity yesterday with the goal of assembling a set of Dire gear. After I completed the 3 paths with a pug group, I asked the warrior a few questions regarding PvE condition viability. He has ascended gear / legendary wep and he was pretty good (playing and helping with hints / suggestions).
He said that the only decent Condi option for Pve would be a Condi Engineer, and only for Long fights (fractals I guess?).
He was convinced that Condi Thief is not a wise choice for PvE since it lacks sustained damage.

Now you should also know that I’m not a very knowledgeable gw2 player and I’m learning new things daily.

So.

Conditions for pve… can they rival the zerk dmg output? What about group support and survability / mobility?

IMO Pistol Whip is a really good defensive skill, and a condi build will not have that.

certain condi builds can nearly rival ‘zerk damage. Engi’s the big one, ranger and guard can do well-ish. thief’s near the bottom of the barrel (general rule – no burn, no viable condition build)