Guild Wars 2

Have there been any words from devs about how they feel about the blinding powder stealth granted by heartseeker with this weapon combo ? Just curious.

I personally feel it’s way too strong, and was wondering if it’ll be nerfed anytime soon.

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

It’s literally the only reason to use d/p and at the same time one of the two viable damage combinations the thief has. The only other being d/d.

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Not true. a d/p thief will not come out of stealth while using his stupid annoying combo.
they could remove the leap finisher of heartseeker and the class will not be destroyed.

Daendur.2357:

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Not true. a d/p thief will not come out of stealth while using his stupid annoying combo.
they could remove the leap finisher of heartseeker and the class will not be destroyed.

yeah, I know you don’t go out of stealth when you use 3xHS but if you fail once you’re dead. And no, removing the leap finisher would mean also no more glass cannon D/P thieves, which are totally not the reason why D/P is OP, and that is the last viable build in high level tpvp

Daendur.2357:

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Not true. a d/p thief will not come out of stealth while using his stupid annoying combo.
they could remove the leap finisher of heartseeker and the class will not be destroyed.

If Heartseeker isn’t a leap finisher you destroy the d/p set instantly, it’s the only use the set has. It has no other way to get stealth often so you leave the thief with one good damage set… d/d. Which is a set with 3 useful slots… #1 for auto-attack/backstab, #2 which you just nerfed and #5 to go into stealth.

IE d/d will be ridiculously boring and people will all switch to s/d. Meaning thieves will only kill the mentally challenged and be nothing but boon strippers and you’re still too bad to kill them, because s/d is arguably more annoying than d/p.

Go get educated. You’re clueless.

Frenk.5917:

yeah, I know you don’t go out of stealth when you use 3xHS but if you fail once you’re dead. And no, removing the leap finisher would mean also no more glass cannon D/P thieves, which are totally not the reason why D/P is OP, and that is the last viable build in high level tpvp

i think this dude understood it

D/P is “viable” or “OP” (doesn’t matter which word you use) is simply because it offered thieves reliable condition removal. Closest to this is with dagger offhand but it required hitting the kitten to produce that stealth, which can be blocked or missed.

You want to nerf D/P, then first nerf all condition producing skills, nerf AoE, nerf CC, nerf everything almost every other class relied on to produce their damage….
The only other “option” is to give thieves removal like ele or guardian, or even a warrior, and what will that do? More people will complain about stealth, then you really have no way of keeping this class (given one agrees that stealth was what makes a thief thief)

D/P thief (with the correct traits) is a powerful build, but requires flawless execution UNDER PRESSURE to pull it off. It has a higher roof (in term of execution) but also a higher floor, and in this sense much like d/d or s/d eles with X/X/X/30/30, except it’s more balanced towards dps, and does not make the thief enduring (very small amount of regen compared to those eles).

Those that complain about D/P thieves should really try it themselves before crying about it. There’s a reason not a lot of thieves are running D/P.

I do run D/P. I just feel the stealth combo is too strong when executed properly. Yes it takes a bit of skill to do it, but when it’s done properly it’s just too good.

Would you guys settle for maybe a lower base stealth on leap finishers through smoke fields? Removing leap from heart seeker is definitely not something I think would fix the problem.

The only thing you could do is remove the initiative return on stealth from combo fields. Changing anything else destroys the entire set.

If you use that weapon set for the combo, removing initiative return on stealth will destroy it too.
5 -2 – turn – 2 – 2 does not require skill … it’s simply stupid, a monkey could do it.
That set offers a lot of good skills and the combo is just a plus.
They could simply change the combo: smoke + leap = smoke armor (apply blind when hit) or something else…

Without the combo the set will be useless.
If you cant get in stealth its better to use sword instead of dagger.

If you set to get revealed when leaving stealth, you can still stack stealth with it.
If you set to not stack stealth, you can still re-stealth after you come out.

It will be superior to d/d in terms of longer fights (more blinds and easier stealth)
It will be inferior to d/d in terms of burst dps (CnD still hits hard and gives vulnerability)

There are ways to counter the stealthing combo, easy ones…
thiefs have no stability, and HS will hit anything on its path, even without target.

Humorless.1573:

The only thing you could do is remove the initiative return on stealth from combo fields. Changing anything else destroys the entire set.

now that I like. still gives the on demand stealth, but makes you pay for it a bit more. that would stop the major problem I see with the set – which is the ability to basically wait for the opponent to either blow all his cooldowns trying to hit you while you’re invisible – then strike when the time is right for you (I don’t mind thieves being able to do this sometimes, but not constantly jump around forcing that perfect moment), or to be able to reset fights completely at will (which again thieves should be able to do, just not as much as this set allows)

Using heart seeker once through a smoke field to achieve a 3/4 second stealth feels fine and balanced to me. It’s when this mechanic is abused that i have an issue with it.

I don’t think being able to achieve practically perm-stealth is what the developers had intended. Abuse of this mechanic can feel cheap and is very powerful on some builds, but i’m not sure how you wold fix it. Ideally i’d like to see it so that you can’t use a leap finisher to stealth if you’re already in stealth, but that sounds like a fair amount of work to code and an odd exception to how every other combo field works.

Id rather the thief was destroyed and made anew . Most boring class to play against by far

Guys, stop with the half measures – Just ask Anet to remove thief from the game entirely.

Every single week someone is in here with a new problem – something else that’s so insanely OP about thief that it needs to be utterly gutted “for the good of the game”.

Stop wasting your time asking Anet to dismantle thief piece by piece – just start petitioning that they remove the class entirely.

Or, you could Learn to Play. That’s not meant in a derisive manner – your inexperience and the downright ridiculous awfulness of your suggestion(s) will only be made clear to you once you have a better understanding of the games basic mechanics and more complex class interactions.

You know what would be a good change? If you are already in stealth, stacking more stealth doesn’t give you back 2 initiative. I was initially a bit surprised that it worked the way it does now.

And for the record, I play a D/P thief. Not sure where the sentiment of “not a lot of thieves run D/P” comes from, but if you look around, most WvW thieves are using it. Personally I feel it is too strong.

Edit: Such a change removes perma-stealth, but the base combo of BP+HS is unaffected. In case it wasn’t obvious.

Humorless.1573:

Daendur.2357:

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

Not true. a d/p thief will not come out of stealth while using his stupid annoying combo.
they could remove the leap finisher of heartseeker and the class will not be destroyed.

If Heartseeker isn’t a leap finisher you destroy the d/p set instantly, it’s the only use the set has. It has no other way to get stealth often so you leave the thief with one good damage set… d/d. Which is a set with 3 useful slots… #1 for auto-attack/backstab, #2 which you just nerfed and #5 to go into stealth.

IE d/d will be ridiculously boring and people will all switch to s/d. Meaning thieves will only kill the mentally challenged and be nothing but boon strippers and you’re still too bad to kill them, because s/d is arguably more annoying than d/p.

Go get educated. You’re clueless.

This. Yes d/p could be considered strong (not overly strong), but that doesn’t mean completely destroy the weapon spec’s entire mechanic. OP is absurd.

The issue isn’t the combo. It’s the trait that returns 2 initiative everytime stealth is activated on you. Additionally, other people applying stealth to you (via blast combo, for example), also gives you initiative.

The trait either needs to be much farther down the shadow line (T3 major, competing with stealth regen), or be reworked to be less effective. It’s by far the best initiative trait, and it’s a T1 major.

TJL

leave d/p alooooooooooneeeeeeeee

Leave it aloooooooooooneeeeeeeeeeeee

by the way P/P op

Brassnautilus.2941:

Frenk.5917:

yeah, I know you don’t go out of stealth when you use 3xHS but if you fail once you’re dead. And no, removing the leap finisher would mean also no more glass cannon D/P thieves, which are totally not the reason why D/P is OP, and that is the last viable build in high level tpvp

i think this dude understood it

D/P is “viable” or “OP” (doesn’t matter which word you use) is simply because it offered thieves reliable condition removal. Closest to this is with dagger offhand but it required hitting the kitten to produce that stealth, which can be blocked or missed.

You want to nerf D/P, then first nerf all condition producing skills, nerf AoE, nerf CC, nerf everything almost every other class relied on to produce their damage….
The only other “option” is to give thieves removal like ele or guardian, or even a warrior, and what will that do? More people will complain about stealth, then you really have no way of keeping this class (given one agrees that stealth was what makes a thief thief)

D/P thief (with the correct traits) is a powerful build, but requires flawless execution UNDER PRESSURE to pull it off. It has a higher roof (in term of execution) but also a higher floor, and in this sense much like d/d or s/d eles with X/X/X/30/30, except it’s more balanced towards dps, and does not make the thief enduring (very small amount of regen compared to those eles).

Those that complain about D/P thieves should really try it themselves before crying about it. There’s a reason not a lot of thieves are running D/P.

I lol’d hard. I am a D/P thief and don’t want it to be nerfed. Check the video in my sig.

I play a thief as well as all other professions too. Each has it’s strong points and I see crying about them in each forum, from other players unable to deal with it. It would seem there will all ways be players that feel they deserve to be all powerful and understanding most games of this ilk is a larger form of rock, paper, scissors.

I have played other games that involved stealth, and in this game stealth is very weak compared. The best game I played many years ago that dealt with stealth was LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) in my humble opinion. In that game they gave a Ranger the utility to see and tag for set time frame those in stealth.

Something could be done similar a ranger if pet alive (as pets use other senses) can tag those in stealth no matter range. Ele could have a utility that allows to see movement in a mist around them in say 150. Mesmer can detect the mind of another nearby..etc.etc..

That way if players are so concerned they can juggle a Utility or make sure an Ally has, thus giving them fore warning. Also if such Utility is being used thief gets a message saying “you feel as if your being watched”. This makes the tactical exchange more riveting but also allowing for skill and counter measures.

Frenk.5917:

I lol’d hard. I am a D/P thief and don’t want it to be nerfed. Check the video in my sig.

refuge…
why post a video showing you needed the do-overs to get some kills on wvw kittens?
and blinding powder, someone not so confident of his stealth skills. Then again, totally understandable seeing you not able to hs through bp after leaving the circle.

so here’s a little advice you can give a kitten or not
there are 3 utilities added more than refuge and blind, if you can get enough stealth without having to bring the extras.

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Tatto.8526:

I play a thief as well as all other professions too. Each has it’s strong points and I see crying about them in each forum, from other players unable to deal with it. It would seem there will all ways be players that feel they deserve to be all powerful and understanding most games of this ilk is a larger form of rock, paper, scissors.

I have played other games that involved stealth, and in this game stealth is very weak compared. The best game I played many years ago that dealt with stealth was LOTRO (Lord of the Rings Online) in my humble opinion. In that game they gave a Ranger the utility to see and tag for set time frame those in stealth.

Something could be done similar a ranger if pet alive (as pets use other senses) can tag those in stealth no matter range. Ele could have a utility that allows to see movement in a mist around them in say 150. Mesmer can detect the mind of another nearby..etc.etc..

That way if players are so concerned they can juggle a Utility or make sure an Ally has, thus giving them fore warning. Also if such Utility is being used thief gets a message saying “you feel as if your being watched”. This makes the tactical exchange more riveting but also allowing for skill and counter measures.

Very cool ideas. I like the thought process. Rock paper scissors.

Coming from a thief mes and ele. All 80.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Why HiS should be bad ?

Brassnautilus.2941:

Frenk.5917:

I lol’d hard. I am a D/P thief and don’t want it to be nerfed. Check the video in my sig.

refuge…
why post a video showing you needed the do-overs to get some kills on wvw kittens?
and blinding powder, someone not so confident of his stealth skills. Then again, totally understandable seeing you not able to hs through bp after leaving the circle.

so here’s a little advice you can give a kitten or not
there are 3 utilities added more than refuge and blind, if you can get enough stealth without having to bring the extras.

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Nice scrub morals you’re sellin there and I’m sure he doesn’t give a kitten. Whatever it takes to win is whatever it takes. Sure his aim is off with his HS – who cares. This whole QQ stealth fad is hilarious because we had to listen to the same ole’ song and dance about d/d HS build last year when it was popular. D/P isn’t OP -you kids just don’t know an effective counter so you cry. Instead of crying about HS damage, op mobility, and db’s OP evade it’s stealth -even though after tomorrow thieves burst will be nil- I’m sure more will cry. It’s not the stealth that kills you it’s the patience and timing of the thief. D/P isn’t a burst play style. Cry more though, I’m sure you will.

p.s. – op is an idiot.

In my opinion, the weapon sets and field aren’t what make this spec powerful, it’s the initiative regen available to the class. the whole point behind D/P is to trade offense (CnD burst) with defense (AE Blind and Initiative heavy stealth). The only way D/P remains competetive is via high initiative regen which allows it to maintain the high burst delivered from backstab and stealth spam.

If they were going to legitimately try and fix this spec, they’d almost certainly look at initiative regen before considering changing the leap finisher. And that has me concerned.

Daendur.2357:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Why HiS should be bad ?

1. 30s for 5680+925 regen (on my wvw thief) vs. 15s for 4608
2. 3s stealth (that can be produced with other means) vs. 3.4 sec evade and remove immob/chill/cripple
3. 1s cast time vs. instant

now, if you don’t produce stealth with weapon skills, HiS would be useful.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Daendur.2357:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Why HiS should be bad ?

1. 30s for 5680+925 regen (on my wvw thief) vs. 15s for 4608
2. 3s stealth (that can be produced with other means) vs. 3.4 sec evade and remove immob/chill/cripple
3. 1s cast time vs. instant

now, if you don’t produce stealth with weapon skills, HiS would be useful.

You forgot remove of bleed, burn and poison + 2 extra condition (if traited stealth) and the fact that stealth is initiative free.

btw i found frenk’s video really boring, as i said before. 5 2 2 2 … 5 2 2 2… bah

Acaelus.2138:

It’s not the stealth that kills you it’s the patience and timing of the thief. D/P isn’t a burst play style.

given out enough dude
it would take you 3 month of silence for today’s sin to be forgiven

Daendur.2357:

You forgot remove of bleed, burn and poison + 2 extra condition (if traited stealth) and the fact that stealth is initiative free.

btw i found frenk’s video really boring, as i said before. 5 2 2 2 … 5 2 2 2… bah

shadow’s embrace makes us all immue to condi
or should i say, if one hasn’t picked up SE he should have rolled mesmer…

Brassnautilus.2941:

Daendur.2357:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

Why HiS should be bad ?

1. 30s for 5680+925 regen (on my wvw thief) vs. 15s for 4608
2. 3s stealth (that can be produced with other means) vs. 3.4 sec evade and remove immob/chill/cripple
3. 1s cast time vs. instant

now, if you don’t produce stealth with weapon skills, HiS would be useful.

1) With traits it is also a 4 second stealth, with regen health in stealth it adds an extra 1200 HP to that heal roughly. Making the total around 7700.
2) It will give you 2 initiative if traited.
3) It removes all bleeding, poison and burning, and again if traited removes yet another condition.
4) It allows you to be on the offence instantly after heal. Heal, you’re now at full and with a stealth ability to use. Be it backstab, tactical strike or whatever, that is powerful.
5) If you’re chasing and need a heal, withdraw doesn’t help you.
6) And of course, it’s a target break.

Both are good heals, but to say HiS is outright bad is sheer idiocy and a sign that you know far less than you believe yourself knowing.

Katsumoto.9452:

1) With traits it is also a 4 second stealth, with regen health in stealth it adds an extra 1200 HP to that heal roughly. Making the total around 7700.
2) It will give you 2 initiative if traited.
3) It removes all bleeding, poison and burning, and again if traited removes yet another condition.
4) It allows you to be on the offence instantly after heal. Heal, you’re now at full and with a stealth ability to use. Be it backstab, tactical strike or whatever, that is powerful.
5) If you’re chasing and need a heal, withdraw doesn’t help you.
6) And of course, it’s a target break.

Both are good heals, but to say HiS is outright bad is sheer idiocy and a sign that you know far less than you believe yourself knowing.

1-4 and 6 come down to 1s more stealth, on top of all the other stealth you could get without waiting for cd.
5. turn around, give you a closer instead of a distancer

then let me add three
when skill lagged, chance to cast withdraw is much higher than HiS since it was instant
HiS can be interrupted, and players with interrupt abilities usually look for rising of hands.
casting HiS under revealed gives much less benefits, where withdraw would be unaffected

Frenk.5917:

Humorless.1573:

They can’t do kitten about it without destroying the thief class at this point, so nothing will happen.

Pretty much this. The only thing that they could do to “nerf” d/p thieves is to put revelead when popping out of stealth even when you don’t attack. But this would affect more other builds (d/d, s/d) than d/p.

It is so easy to balance it.

Put a CD of 5-10 on infusion of shadow and remove Patience.

You’re welcome.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Katsumoto.9452:

1) With traits it is also a 4 second stealth, with regen health in stealth it adds an extra 1200 HP to that heal roughly. Making the total around 7700.
2) It will give you 2 initiative if traited.
3) It removes all bleeding, poison and burning, and again if traited removes yet another condition.
4) It allows you to be on the offence instantly after heal. Heal, you’re now at full and with a stealth ability to use. Be it backstab, tactical strike or whatever, that is powerful.
5) If you’re chasing and need a heal, withdraw doesn’t help you.
6) And of course, it’s a target break.

Both are good heals, but to say HiS is outright bad is sheer idiocy and a sign that you know far less than you believe yourself knowing.

1-4 and 6 come down to 1s more stealth, on top of all the other stealth you could get without waiting for cd.
5. turn around, give you a closer instead of a distancer

then let me add three
when skill lagged, chance to cast withdraw is much higher than HiS since it was instant
HiS can be interrupted, and players with interrupt abilities usually look for rising of hands.
casting HiS under revealed gives much less benefits, where withdraw would be unaffected

My personal opinion is your heal skill is personal preference.

That being said you coming here and bashing people for taking HiS because you feel it is noob is pretty kittened up.

One could just as well say wtf you need to heal every 15 seconds for? Learn to thief better since when I run HiS I usually don’t even NEED to hit the button every 30 seconds.

So how about a more friendly track mmkay?

MIrra.3604:

Put a CD of 5-10 on infusion of shadow

how would you feel about giving 30% extension on ALL your weapon skill cd, regardless what non-thief class you been playing.

That alone destroys thief class, just like 30% longer cd on all skills would destroy any other class.

you can get rid of Patience though, only kittens have it, and i didn’t mean rainman kind of kittens.

Brassnautilus.2941:

1-4 and 6 come down to 1s more stealth, on top of all the other stealth you could get without waiting for cd.
5. turn around, give you a closer instead of a distancer

then let me add three
when skill lagged, chance to cast withdraw is much higher than HiS since it was instant
HiS can be interrupted, and players with interrupt abilities usually look for rising of hands.
casting HiS under revealed gives much less benefits, where withdraw would be unaffected

So you disregard the fact that the heal is practically identical in terms of healing when used with the right traits, ignore the offensive capabilities of the heal and say to turn around with withdraw. Even with the 180 degree rotate, using withdraw as a gap closer is worse than just running towards them. You lose ground. Who uses HiS under revealed?

It’s a preference thing, and frankly who cares about skill lag. You get it, nothing you can do about it. If things are that bad then nothing really activates anyway. Also, HiS gives me a couple of might stacks for 15s forgot that one.

You’ve walked into this thread with an elitist attitude and you are infact, wrong. HiS has its place, withdraw has its and even the signet, albeit my least favourite, has its place too. And I amongst others rarely have to use my heal every time its off CD also, if you have to use a major heal every 15s your gameplay may need looking at. Also for every moment in time that lapses after the 15s cd, HiS gets better than withdraw as its a bigger burst heal.

Both are good heals. End of.

I’ve been running d/p / s/d through a bit of spvp recently and have noticed the burst AND damage are pitiful compared to the d/d spec I traditionally run. I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong but the few stacks of might you get do not make up for the ~20% damage loss from losing the other grandmaster traits (initiative isn’t over 6 very often…).

Don’t get me wrong, black powder is very abusable since many players neglect bringing CC (or timing it well), but it hardly seems ‘overpowered’. It is a strong spec against builds that do not sustain themselves since it can grind them out, but against others it is forced to retreat.

I guess whether it should be allowed to retreat so easily is another matter, but it works both ways… the thief can’t keep up with you either without burning initiative.

It’s kind of funny how quickly people identify themselves as having never played a thief for even a single PvP match via their suggestions. From suggesting removing leap finisher from HS, a CD on Infusion, removing Infusion of shadow entirely…

When Brass calls you a kitten you probably assume its meant offensively – it probably is, but he’s right. You’re exclaiming for all the players here to see just how little you know about thieves, then judging yourself fit to make balance changes to the class. It makes you look silly and uninformed, it makes you seem like a poor player, and most of all, makes it impossible for you to be taken seriously.

Could everyone, just for a kitten minute, stop yelling for Nerf’s all the time?

There’s a huge path launching tomorrow that will destroy many builds. At least wait and see how that plays out.

There is a group of trolls that just want everyone to press the 1 key and let the strongest warrior win.

As for d/p needing nerfed, no it doesn’t. It’s initiative intensive to keep that stealth up and pretty much all the damage comes from backstabs. It isn’t bursty nor overpowering in sustained dps. What it has is the ability to let the thief dictate how the fight is fought. And it does this well.

I’d say it’s a balanced weaponset, and considering the fact that our other sets are left in quite a bad state when facing a good opponent at least, it cannot be nerfed. Thief has suffered 33% cnd damage nerf, 50% dancing daggers and heartseeker nerfs to the % hp of the enemy needed for the real damage, and that’s daggers alone.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Acaelus.2138:

It’s not the stealth that kills you it’s the patience and timing of the thief. D/P isn’t a burst play style.

given out enough dude
it would take you 3 month of silence for today’s sin to be forgiven

Fair enough but the same stands for calling someone bad for bringing utilities that one utilizes. Scrub talk has no place in any competitive game so just stop it already. Also it isn’t that hard to down an opponent, using d/p, without going for the so called “perma-stealth” everyone goes on about. Simply steal (hidden thief +power of inertia,) backstab if possible (negligible damage really) and auto attack inside bp. If retaliation gets you in trouble reset with refuge, wait for 10 might stacks and repeat. At no point does stealth make you OP unless we’re talking about those upset at stealth used as a pocket escape.

Acaelus.2138:

At no point does stealth make you OP unless we’re talking about those upset at stealth used as a pocket escape.

/disagree
Perma stealth makes you completely op as a scout in WvW/sPvP where scouting information can EASILY make or break a match.

If PvP was a solo game, then you’d be right.
If you can’t dish out damage while stealthed and your opponent heals every time you stealth away to heal, then it wouldn’t matter.
But this isn’t a solo game. Strategy matters, and scouting information is invaluable.

Brassnautilus.2941:

refuge…
why post a video showing you needed the do-overs to get some kills on wvw kittens?
and blinding powder, someone not so confident of his stealth skills. Then again, totally understandable seeing you not able to hs through bp after leaving the circle.

so here’s a little advice you can give a kitten or not
there are 3 utilities added more than refuge and blind, if you can get enough stealth without having to bring the extras.

Again, at least you didn’t bring HiS, you’ve graduated first grade.

I like this guy. He’s like “hey, I’m the D/P boss and I didn’t even watch your video so your argument is invalid”. Funny thing is that I use HS through BP without having to be in the circle, but you didn’t see the video at all (maybe 10 seconds? 30?). Another fun fact is that you probably never had a hard fight in wvwvw, otherwise you should really know that leaping thorugh BP while stealthed and hitting a target leads you to pop out of stealth (solution: bring blinding powder for stealth when you can’t stealth with HS due to the amout of enemies around you). For what concern Shadow refuge for once you’re right. I could not use it, but I like to have a free out-of-jail if I get interrupted during my BP+HS chain and I’m in trouble.

But the most amazing, funny, incredible fun fact is that you behave like everyone else is garbage.

I get angry at these kind of threads and very rarely voice my opinion on any threads.

I have already written above a viable alternative..rather than nerf which hurts a profession across all this game has to offer not just player v x player scenerios (which by the way isn’t the whole game or it would be 2GB or less in size and scope of playing), why not add a utility for those so concerned. Probably what is missing in the subtext is how easy it is to bring a thief down if handled right. I don’t see many threads saying that skill or chain is a bit OP but in fairness they are squishy more than cloth wearers even if they are supposed to be medium armour.

While maths and statistics tell a story, they are only figures when a result is achieved, One variable difference can turn something into less than mean. (mean being average).

Play the game, find ways. I am rubbish at certain things but I have got better with practice and perseverance. Having nearly every profession at 80 there is a lack of viable good builds in them all, and in each I know each could be nerfed, or instead why nor give a counter rather than a nerf and making all that effort with equipment a total waste of time.

All I say is lets have more viable builds for everyone, rather than calling or questioning builds for all in what ever genre they prefer, rather than depressing nerfs (all classes).

phor.7952:

Acaelus.2138:

At no point does stealth make you OP unless we’re talking about those upset at stealth used as a pocket escape.

/disagree
Perma stealth makes you completely op as a scout in WvW/sPvP where scouting information can EASILY make or break a match.

If PvP was a solo game, then you’d be right.
If you can’t dish out damage while stealthed and your opponent heals every time you stealth away to heal, then it wouldn’t matter.
But this isn’t a solo game. Strategy matters, and scouting information is invaluable.

Anyone can scout and live, it doesn’t require stealth, just common sense. There’s multiple classes that will never die while running assuming you don’t wait for the zerg to be on you.

phor.7952:

Acaelus.2138:

At no point does stealth make you OP unless we’re talking about those upset at stealth used as a pocket escape.

/disagree
Perma stealth makes you completely op as a scout in WvW/sPvP where scouting information can EASILY make or break a match.

If PvP was a solo game, then you’d be right.
If you can’t dish out damage while stealthed and your opponent heals every time you stealth away to heal, then it wouldn’t matter.
But this isn’t a solo game. Strategy matters, and scouting information is invaluable.

Because you can’t scout and relay information on a ledge overlooking a node without being in stealth. Funny thing is when I relay info in wvw I’m pretty sure I’m not in stealth. Secondly, if the damage thieves do from stealth didn’t matter and an opponent was able to spam heal through it we would be the most useless class in game; and everyone would be fine. Your last sentence made me laugh though, truly, as it is so irrelevant on the topic at hand (D/P build) that you should run for president.

A Thief in stealth isn’t doing damage or capping a point, and it’s much easier to scout in WvW with a Warrior/Ele thanks to their superior straight line mobility.

To suggest that D/P is OP because a Thief can stealth permanently versus a four year old is hilarious.

Tip: Interrupt the first Heartseeker or stand in the smoke field if you can’t… TADA!

Stop screaming for nerfs, I think the Thief has been beaten enough with the nerf bat.

Of course this is easy to balance: decrease stealth attack damage by 50%.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Of course this is easy to balance: decrease stealth attack damage by 50%.

3/10, too obvious.

So people are saying it’s too strong and that it’s cheesy to leap over and over.
I thought, why not only be able to get stealth ONCE from one smoke field with a combo? It’s already 4 seconds traited which is pretty much what you need for battling. Going in for more stealth just asks for trolling people or having a FREE shadowrefuge.
In my honest opinion it seems pretty fair. If anything the leap could just be 4 seconds instead of 3 if this change is implemented. And bam, no more permatealth through black powder.
I mean, if you’re using that trick of gaining 12 secs of stealth with one field is probably because you want to avoid a big fight or recover all your health if you’re wounded or just have the usual benefits of confusion (not the condition) on the enemy.