(edited by Pirhana.8935)
Dancing Dagger's Purpose
We are complaining that it still costs 4ini, which is 1/3 of our entire pool. If they compensated for this ridiculous nerf, people wouldn’t be kittening so much.
If the purpose is a gap closer, then it’s completely useless.
D/D Heartseeker is better for closing gaps, costs less initiative, and hitting escaping (likely damaged) targets. It’s also more reliable, as you will always leap, even if you miss, but if you miss a dancing dagger, then you’ve only wasted initiative.
P/D You’ve got a ranged weapon
S/D You have a 3 initiative shadowstep
The should have boosted the range and crippling effect of dancing dagger to compensate for the huge damage nerf.
Just another noob thief…
P/D has no gap closer. Dancing dagger is really the only quick way to slow someone enough to hopefully catch up. That’s what I use it for. Most people playing P/D aren’t playing the build for ranged combat. That’s why I always wanted a shadowstep TO my target instead of away from my target.
I’m not too worried about the nerf although it would have been nice to drop the Initiative cost by 1.
I agree that it was supposed to be a snare primarily. The damage was just icing on the cake. The fact that it was super effective against 2 targets was probably never intended.
Like most have said – the current initiative cost is far too high for the reduction in damage, something else needs to be adjusted. Maybe the range or the duration of the cripple, hell I’d settle for it only hitting two targets and give me the kitten damage back.
I used it for AOE damage, and I don’t feel sorry for doing so. You could burn all of your initiative on Dancing Dagger to do a bunch of burst damage quickly when the situation was right at the expense of all of your initiative. I considered that a trade-off, a tactic. As a sword/dagger Thief my next best attack is auto-attack, which still does good sustained damage, it’s just really boring to rely on auto-attack as your only good method of hurting people.
I agree that its’ damage should probably have been scaled down, I just think 50% was really harsh. Even with two opponents it doesn’t do enough damage to justify the 4 initiative when my auto-attack will catch up to it without spending anything. There’s just not a lot of point to it, and I think that makes it a poorly designed alteration.
Complaining about DD not doing massive damage anymore would be like complaing about your race car not being able to hill climb and compete with offroad jeeps . thats not its purpose
You don’t get to dictate purpose, the community as a whole dictates purpose via ANet’s design. The fact is that DD was a burst damage ability, that was its purpose because that is what it did. It is no longer a burst damage ability and is now unbalanced due to how weak it is for the investment. Initiative cost, travel time, and effectiveness vs. single targets need to be rebalanced if the role of this skill is to change. Additionally, S/D, S/P, and D/D need to be rebalanced individually based on the changes to the /D offhand. The changes were much more painful to some weapon sets than others, particularly weapon sets that were already fairly well balanced.
tl;dr – The intent may be for DD’s role to change, but there’s no “you were wrong about what it was for” in the previous function.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
@Rottaran heartseeker gets you to the target but it can still be difficult to stay on them, DD cripple keeps they crawling, if traited its like 7 seconds of you tearing them apart while easily staying on them, your auto attack chain will kill just about everyone in that time. then finish them off with heartseeker for max damage
@Rottaran heartseeker gets you to the target but it can still be difficult to stay on them, DD cripple keeps they crawling, if traited its like 7 seconds of you tearing them apart while easily staying on them, your auto attack chain will kill just about everyone in that time. then finish them off with heartseeker for max damage
This gives a clue to your weapon set. The Dancing Dagger change was far more harmful to the other weapon sets than D/D.
If you don’t get the bounce (ie against a single running target), DD’s cripple is 2.5 seconds. I don’t really consider that very cost effective for 4i. And it’s certainly not worth using for any kind of damage. There are better, more efficient places to find a gap closer.
Badding up tourneys since 2012
NA tPvP – Elementalist – Thief
NA tPvP – Elementalist – Thief
@Tulisin You can be mad that an ability you liked to use for damage was nerfd but dont try to justify the ability or claim it was for ment for damage. you know it was INTENDED to be a criple. so that your target couldt get away OR so you could get away if needed. this ability for this class has been there for every mmo.
IF this was indeed suppose to be a “burst damage” skill ? why would they not nerf the damage by 15% like they did with all other damage nerfs so far. and why you you think it actually has a cripple effect on it to begin with?
I’m not complainig.
This is a deserved nerf. For a skill ranged, aoe, that cripples, it was doing too much damage.
we were able to 2 shot a ranger … a little imba.
Black Thunders [BT] – Gandara
Do you know how much damage warrior’s counterparts of this do?
Do you know how much damage warrior’s counterparts of this do?
Different classes are different.
We don’t need to start homogenizing skills across different professions. It would be boring as hell.
The fact is, Dancing Dagger was meant for a multi-target cripple. Not your main source of damage.
The fact is, Dancing Dagger was meant for a multi-target cripple. Not your main source of damage.
If this is the intent the situation remains unchanged, Dancing Dagger is as bad at that role as it is at damage now, it needs a balancing pass to bring its cost and weaknesses in-line with its strengths and role, regardless of what that role is.
(edited by Tulisin.6945)
Meaning of skill is decided by its use. Not by its description.
For S/D this was the main burst.
For P/D this was the main aoe.
For good D/D it was useless.
The fact is, Dancing Dagger was meant for a multi-target cripple. Not your main source of damage.
If this is the intent the situation remains unchanged, Dancing Dagger is as bad at that role as it is at damage now.
Dancing Dagger still cripples for 5 seconds.
Dancing Dagger still can hit up to 4 targets.
Dancing Dagger still is a projectile finisher and has a range of 900.
Your just angry because you can’t light up multiple targets for a lot of damage.
On that note, I would have rather Anet left the damage alone but reduced the next bounce by 25%. Example:
4k > 3k > 2.25k > ~1.7K
This would at least left the high damage for a single target but couldn’t be abused when bouncing between two players (or Ranger’s and their pets).
i still use it d /d
zerg chase zerg …. i do 3 heartseeker to close gap and 1 dd to cripple enemy’s, so my ally’s can finish them , run in front and dd to slow others. i do 1000 damage but i make 7 kills that could go away.
The fact is, Dancing Dagger was meant for a multi-target cripple. Not your main source of damage.
If this is the intent the situation remains unchanged, Dancing Dagger is as bad at that role as it is at damage now.
Dancing Dagger still cripples for 5 seconds.
Dancing Dagger still can hit up to 4 targets.
Dancing Dagger still is a projectile finisher and has a range of 900.
Your just angry because you can’t light up multiple targets for a lot of damage.
On that note, I would have rather Anet left the damage alone but reduced the next bounce by 25%. Example:
4k > 3k > 2.25k > ~1.7K
This would at least left the high damage for a single target but couldn’t be abused when bouncing between two players (or Ranger’s and their pets).
This would be the most logical solution, but I feel like it’s too late to be suggesting it now. The die’s already been cast.
It WAS suggested. VERY long ago
On that note, I would have rather Anet left the damage alone but reduced the next bounce by 25%. Example:
4k > 3k > 2.25k > ~1.7K
This would at least left the high damage for a single target but couldn’t be abused when bouncing between two players (or Ranger’s and their pets).
Yeah, even 100% -> 66% -> 33% -> 10% would be preferable……..or reduce the bounce to 2 and make it do 100% -> 50% (though even that would be a bit harsh)
But I also agree that this ship has already sailed. It’s also why they should select some high-end sPvP’ers (like 20 well respected players from each class) and run the changes by them before pulling triggers like this. Give them a private forum and post the changes there a week before they go live.
Even better, do it like Starcraft 2. They make infinitesimal changes and then watch the community to see how they pan out. If you want a game to become an e-sport, you need to make subtle changes; surgical changes that seek to balance and improve the overall competitiveness of the game.
I suppose that’s my main complaint. The changes ANet is making take sledgehammers to skills and builds, completely invalidating entire styles of play with every set of nerfs. It just seems so……..unnecessary.
Ah well, it’s not like I’m done or anything but it’s certainly a little frustrating. Overall, this set of changes could have been much much worse so I’m not too upset :-)
Judas – Kaineng
[CO] Cryptic Omen
[CO] Cryptic Omen
Well, it lost it usefullness for me, kitten D player, i can infiltrators strike for 3 innitiative + thats snare. with pretty much same damage as dd 1on1… and a gap closer….. and lets me remove stun/condition after it…
1on1 dancing dagger now is just awfull, nuthing else.1vs many its still toleratable.
Former Devils Inside Thief R43