Guild Wars 2

Video: http://tinyurl.com/koledancer
Build: http://tinyurl.com/dancingkole
0/10/0/30/30

Please enjoy! I’d love to have a discussion around the merits or weakness of the build.

I’ll answer any questions to the best of my ability.

Took you 20 secs to kill an uplevel warrior. Therefore, I deem this build useless outside of kill super noobs.

jesus christ, that background music is ear drum shattering. can you load one where i dont have to listen to that awful noise?

Music (mute video, pick random) → http://www.pown.it/3543

Might be fun to play in WvW, but has no chance in sPvP. Low condition removal would kill me.

MIrra.3604:

Took you 20 secs to kill an uplevel warrior. Therefore, I deem this build useless outside of kill super noobs.

I was kiting 4 enemies (3 80’s) – you notice my health-bar during those 20 seconds, that was a group fight. The point of that section http://youtu.be/JksFoG5CsLQ?t=5m26s was to show evades. I call that out in the comments as well.

I spend the rest of the 15 mins in this video, aside from one other outnumbered group fight, soloing level 80’s.

here’s 1v1 level 80 warrior: http://youtu.be/JksFoG5CsLQ?t=13m25s
here’s a level 80 warrior and level 80 mesmer: http://youtu.be/JksFoG5CsLQ?t=12m11s
And here’s 2 80 bunker guards: http://youtu.be/JksFoG5CsLQ?t=10m3s

Lenn.6347:

jesus christ, that background music is ear drum shattering. can you load one where i dont have to listen to that awful noise?

Don’t listen to the music then, thank you.

@Woaden,

I liked the video and give you credit for the build/style as it’s something I never really got the hang of. I tried quite a bit as I really like the idea/look of a sword/dagger thief but it just didn’t “feel” right to me.

Sadly, I’m one of those D/P or D/D thieves that only come out of stealth long enough to drop a backstab and then hide back into the shadows. I just depend so much on being able to get away if necessary that without all that stealth, I feel lost.

Anyways, great video and thanks for posting.

FinalPatriot.8034:

@Woaden,
Sadly, I’m one of those D/P or D/D thieves that only come out of stealth long enough to drop a backstab and then hide back into the shadows. I just depend so much on being able to get away if necessary that without all that stealth, I feel lost.

Thank you for the kind words.

I wouldn’t say sadly! D/D and D/P are the best thief sets, I don’t think that can really be argued with any vigor. Even as S/D you can fit in a high stealth style, which I may do in my next vid. It would depend a lot more on daze, since for raw DPS a dagger mainhand would be much better.

I think high stealth/daze would pair best with S/D & D/P as offset. But MAN do I miss Shortbow every time I try to drop it.

Woaden.9425:

I think high stealth/daze would pair best with S/D & D/P as offset. But MAN do I miss Shortbow every time I try to drop it.

I reluctantly use the Shortbow as logically, I know it’s the best for zergs or when I’m outnumbered. Still, the P/P offset is just amazing for single target damage in that most folks somehow forget to dodge the unload. I actually wacked a Warrior the other day with 2 unloads and dropped him. It was pretty sad but when the last hit of the chain does over 9.4K damage, it’s hard to ignore the potential. Generally speaking, if I’m out just trying to pick a fight, I often keep my pistols on ready instead of the bow.

I loved the music and gameplay. I just recently started using s/d as secondary in spvp and soon wvw. I really love the boon stealing especially on guards/eles. I remeber fighting a necro in tPvP and he popped lich form or what ever it’s called that gives alot of stability… needless to say the only thing that could shut a thief down (crowd control) was non effective

I do have a question however. I’m haveing trouble finding the right sigil for my sword. I figure id just go air since im on a d/d crit build. I tried to ampplify the immobalize and cripple at once but the sigils really dont add anything. What do you suggest?

FinalPatriot.8034:

P/P offset is just amazing for single target damage

Agreed, my guildmate Diggen runs D/P – P/P recently and it lays down the hurt! You still get access to that x/P daze too, which is so nice. I think it works for him though since he’s also Dagger Mainhand, giving him more mobility with HS. With S/D – P/P you’d be killer in a duel but it’d take you forever to get there!

Rastaman.9015:

I’m haveing trouble finding the right sigil for my sword […] What do you suggest?

I run fire just for AOE overkill, Air is better single target damage. But it’s all to taste. Should have Perception and Accuracy in there somewhere (swap out), Rage? Quickness (not as good anymore), Givers? I’d stick with fire.

Ah just noticed you’re part of GRIM.

Not some of the best thieves…

Fought you guys before and against other thieves, it easy to pick out what spec/build quickly. We went and kill your friends and left you alone.

@MIrra.3604
I appreciate that your trolling is keeping this post at the top of the forum, thank you.

I recently joined [GRIM], yes. We have many great thieves (and mesmers and rangers and eles and so forth); but just like all things, you win some and you lose some. If you got the upper hand I congratulate you.

What server and guild are you a part of?

@OP

Questions:
- Why 10pts in CS and not in DA given that you have 30% cooldown reduction on Steal?
- Why Quick Recovery instead of Power of Inertia?

I’m just curios with those choices. Do they synergize with your group composition? If so, how?

Thanks.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Why 10pts in CS and not in DA given that you have 30% cooldown reduction on Steal?
- Why Quick Recovery instead of Power of Inertia?

I like 10 in DA, I think you could move 10 points over there for sure. In actuality, the core of the build is x/x/x/15/30 so you could really move anything else around. This combo takes the most advantage out of Withdraw, which has synergy with Lyssa (Vigorous Recovery/Hastened Replenishment) and gives high evades.

Power of Inertia I would consider in place of Vigorous Recovery before I would consider replacing Quick Recovery, it’s just too good, and ensures a steady stream of Ini recovery, which you need in this build.

If I was going to go 10 into DA, I’d actually take the last 10 from Acro instead. Replace one heal (Assassins Reward), with another (Mug) and gain that great poison on steal and some more burst in the process. I stick with 10 CS because I built this with high Crit Damage/Crit Chance in mind, so the additional fury helps, as does the passive 100 prec and 10% crit damage.

good job bro! ignore the haters.. haters gonna hate as always cuz they can’t do what you’re doin. and if you don’t like the music just mute it then. im using s/d too in spvp tpvp. i wanna try it in WvW too but i dnt have the right armors and weapons!. currently doin D/P way in WvW

IF I were to ever make a thief, this build fits my playstyle perfect.

Bravo. Nice job. Loved the music.

Finally a pull away from the glassy.

For your conditions, why not add Lemongrass and then maybe stacks of +healing? You’ve seem to get a good amount of regen and since evasion is your best defense, the lemongrass would support the condition removal (40% duration).

Don’t think the dps loss would be too noticable.

same weapon setup as me. S/D and shortbow and non stealth is very nice gameplay style.

unfortunately, I’m not that skilled. I spam FS and that works as well. hehe

I’ve just converted over to S/D recently and been practicing my kitten off in sPVP. Just got my gear for WvW and already had a blast tonight with it. Great video!

It felt really awkward at first when I started using the set, but man…I feel like its really got crazy potential now. Its pretty ridiculous. In just a few days, what I’m able to pull off is getting pretty crazy. Too much fun haha.

I have to admit that you’re playstyle is very good..
do not listen to all the haters here and keep on with more videos, but.. man your opponents were very very bad..
Also you play very well your build but I still don’t like it, your bad opponents never put pressure on you, they focused all the time on your party mates, I think that your buld under pressure is not as good, the few times you were under pressure by 2\3 enemies focusing on you, well you were downed.
Not saying your bad, but that build can’t survive much when focused even with your dodges and evades.
My point of view tho

Yes that mesmer and elementalist both seem to be pretty bad.

I really don’t see the point of putting 30 in Trickery when it would be so much better off in CS… but whatever, if you find it enjoyable then more power to you.

Lenn.6347:

jesus christ, that background music is ear drum shattering. can you load one where i dont have to listen to that awful noise?

Music is subjective, so if you don’t like it, mute it or don’t watch it at all. The rest of us don’t have to make sure that our music suits you so don’t be so childish.

Lenn.6347:

jesus christ, that background music is ear drum shattering. can you load one where i dont have to listen to that awful noise?

Music is subjective, so if you don’t like it, mute it or don’t watch it at all. The rest of us don’t have to make sure that our music suits you so don’t be so childish.

Woaden.9425:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Why 10pts in CS and not in DA given that you have 30% cooldown reduction on Steal?
- Why Quick Recovery instead of Power of Inertia?

I like 10 in DA, I think you could move 10 points over there for sure. In actuality, the core of the build is x/x/x/15/30 so you could really move anything else around. This combo takes the most advantage out of Withdraw, which has synergy with Lyssa (Vigorous Recovery/Hastened Replenishment) and gives high evades.

Power of Inertia I would consider in place of Vigorous Recovery before I would consider replacing Quick Recovery, it’s just too good, and ensures a steady stream of Ini recovery, which you need in this build.

If I was going to go 10 into DA, I’d actually take the last 10 from Acro instead. Replace one heal (Assassins Reward), with another (Mug) and gain that great poison on steal and some more burst in the process. I stick with 10 CS because I built this with high Crit Damage/Crit Chance in mind, so the additional fury helps, as does the passive 100 prec and 10% crit damage.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew there’s a reason for it.

How about your gears? Your link doesn’t include the type of gear you use.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

How about your gears? Your link doesn’t include the type of gear you use.

The gear is in the info on the vid (click more)

Incurafy.6329:

I really don’t see the point of putting 30 in Trickery when it would be so much better off in CS

30 into trickery is for +4 ini on withdraw, AND +15% damage, and extra boon steal and fury (to make up for loss of 200 precision from CS). What you miss out on is +20% crit damage, that’s the sacrifice you make for those things. If we all stayed 30 in CS things would get very boring. This is a fun alternative with comparable damage.

Kolly.9872:

I think that your buld under pressure is not as good, the few times you were under pressure by 2\3 enemies focusing on you, well you were downed.

I agree that sustained pressure by 3+ on this build is not a good thing. You have the ini and endurance to stay alive, but you only really do damage from your auto attack (and LS) but both of these moments make you vulnerable to attack. You can survive indefinitely, actually, but you just won’t be doing any damage. That’s the catch 22 of internet vids. If I post my footage of “just surviving” now people will call it a troll build.

The point of the build in group dynamic is to keep dodging till they ignore you, then (with DPS and dazes and boonrips) you force them to pay attention again. I made the fatal mistake in that group fight of trying too hard to kill that guy before he made it back to his spawn.

1v1, however, it’s beast. With the style, you make sure they can’t pressure you, and you keep up the pressure on them, they start to make stupid mistakes just to try and scratch you (see that warrior at the end).

The key to this style and build is adapting. The strength is that you can do anything (plenty of ini) that the fight dictates. He has boons? FS/LS. He does a lot of channels? Daze. He does a lot of condis? Infil strike.

The weakness is being caught flat footed, you only have 900 toughness. Any mistake and you die. I’ve been playing too long to play it safe, this build is a challenge, and it’s rewarding when it all goes right!

This might be exactly what I’m looking for. My warrior is mostly played “as a thief without stealth” (1. get in 2. do my thing 3. get out before someone looks in my direction). So I was thinking maybe I can play a thief like a warrior.

Do you think this could be done on a p/p build? Like a cqc pistol build where “people know where I am”.

Seetoo.9316:

So I was thinking maybe I can play a thief like a warrior.

You’re setting yourself up for disappointments.

I should probably clarify. I want to be able to play as a “frontliner”. Someone who can stay in combat for quite some time (as opposed to my sniper warrior who is only in combat every time killshot comes off cd).

I was hoping the self healing from assassin’s reward and signet of malice would be enough (with the evades and effects on dodge).

FinalPatriot.8034:

… It was pretty sad but when the last hit of the chain does over 9.4K damage, it’s hard to ignore the potential.

They all hit for the same amount, approximately. The numbers you see are the totals for all hits … So you hit for 9.4k total, or about 1.2k per hit.

This is quite a good build. I had a similar one at my very beginning of playing a Thief. However, I think you have clearly overdone it with Vigor.

Vigor:
Every 15 seconds you can gain 8 seconds of Vigor +30% boon dur. = 10.5 seconds of Vigor. (Withdraw)
Every 30 seconds you can gain 15 seconds of Vigor + 30% boon dur. = 19.5 seconds of Vigor. (Steal)
So mathematicaly speaking you can get 1.333 seconds of Vigor evry second… To much, also taking into account “Feline Grace”…
My advice: replace “Bountiful Theft” with “Uncatchable” which suits quite well in this build. Bleeding and Cripple for 5 seconds behind every dodge, why not?

Also I would replace “Assassin’s Reward” with “Power of Inertia” and support might with the “Superior Rune’s of Strenght”. This leads to +50% might duration which will lead to 1 might for 22.5 seconds per dodge. I do not know how many dodges you do in 15 seconds but I am quite sure you can keep a solid might stack of 5-7 (also with ToC). This alone will give an additional 210 Power + 5% Damage due to might.

Last but not least: Your crit sucks anyway. So leave it and get Mug.

That’s how I would go along with this build but overall it looks quite fund to play.

Very neat build / video…been playing around with S/D myself in WvW but I’ve gone with half power/toughness/healing power and half zerker gear, which is a nice balance for me. I like Nime’s suggestions too, especially since you’re stealing fairly often, and have lots of pts in condition damage already, getting those cripple/bleeds from caltrops and the poison on steal will do a lot towards bringing the opponent down, and reducing their ability to escape/heal.

Thanks for the feedback guys! I appreciate it. Since this video, I’ve actually made a few modifications to the build, and you’re on the right track!

Nime.2089:

I think you have clearly overdone it with Vigor.
My advice: replace “Bountiful Theft” with “Uncatchable”

Agreed, Vigor was overdone. I’ve since replaced Bountiful Theft with Uncatchable. The big weakness of Uncatchable was that it would reveal your position in stealth. But obviously this build doesn’t have a lot of stealth so it’s a non-issue! This is a good way to take advantage of some of that condition damage as you suggest.

I keep Vigorous Recovery. That paired with Feline Grace are the perfect combo. I dodge 90% of a fight and if I only access Vigor via Lyssa/Basilisk I notice it, since I save Basilisk for specific situations like lots of conditions or a need for stability/aegis/protection, which runs counter intuitive to “more dodge” since I can’t dodge out of damaging condi’s (would that I could!)

For someone who conserves their dodges more, though, I could totally see trading VR for Power of Inertia.

Nime.2089:

Also I would replace “Assassin’s Reward” with “Power of Inertia” and support might with the “Superior Rune’s of Strenght”.

Lyssa runes stay IMO, for sure. As does Assassin’s Reward. AR is great for shortbow retreat or FS/LS spam and takes full advantage of being so initiative rich. Your mileage may vary.

Nime.2089:

Last but not least: Your crit sucks anyway. So leave it and get Mug.

I have experimented with both Mug and Furious Retaliation.

It’s a hard choice, because Mug heal is real useful, as is the bit of burst AND the poison. Poison allows you to take more advantage from condi’s once more.

However, my crit doesn’t really suck, nor does my crit damage, but its CLOSE to sucking, and 10 in CS and furious retaliation push it over the edge to “decent”.

With 25 stacks of perception, with an accuracy dagger equipped, and precision food, I’m at:

Crit Chance 68% (88% with fury)
Crit Damage 78%

Granted, I get fury from steal and lyssa runes too, but I’m not gonna complain about stacking fury duration “too much” :p

Going mug, i’ll be at -10% of each, and obviously won’t have that one fury, so max I’ll get with my (less frequent) furies from steal/lyssa is:

Crit Chance 58% (78% w/ fury)
Crit Damage 68%

I prefer the boost to crit dam/crit chance than the poison or heal/damage (if you need either of these, it’s good to swap to SB, lay down a poison field, then shoot an unexploded clusterbomb and time a mug/steal to connect at the same time, which I’m still practicing).

Anyhow, I love talking builds so thank you for the suggestions. I may give mug another chance just to see. I used it a lot pre-nerf, you can see that in my “The Ripper” build vid.

Thanks again!

One of the great things about this build is the mobility. The frequent dodges make perma-swiftness possible without any extra gear (and no need for signet).
The high initiative makes spamming shortbow 5 easy.
Recharge and vigor on healing lets you turn around and use heal and roll for initiative to move forward fast and then have refilled shortbow.
Shadowstep for good measure.

This build can run faster than most things, and has good access to stun breaks. This is all important because stealth is harder on it.

I’ve been playing a peek-a-boo killshot warrior for a couple of months so bear with me.

I’m inching my way to 80 on a thief (crafted him to 35 and currently 45 via wvw karma train). Would healing power matter at all if I use signet of malice instead of withdraw (plan to use assassin’s reward and sigil of blood)?

My 1st choice for armor was to go full knights, but the 14k hp isn’t sitting well with me (used to 19k hp on my full glass warrior). My only options for vit and prec is magi.

bobross.5034:

One of the great things about this build is the mobility. The frequent dodges make perma-swiftness possible without any extra gear (and no need for signet).
The high initiative makes spamming shortbow 5 easy.
Recharge and vigor on healing lets you turn around and use heal and roll for initiative to move forward fast and then have refilled shortbow.
Shadowstep for good measure.

This build can run faster than most things, and has good access to stun breaks. This is all important because stealth is harder on it.

For sure, SB 5 is good for the heals from assassins reward as well. Good way to “top off” when you start to feel a little pressure 1vX. Then if it gets too hot, withdraw/rfi and keep 5. You can skirmish like this all day!

I have been tempted to go back to S/D D/P since the shadowstep nerf lessened the importance of bow, and I would if I was in a 1v1 duel tourney or something, but SB is just too good for WvW roaming still, with this build.

Seetoo.9316:

I’ve been playing a peek-a-boo killshot warrior for a couple of months so bear with me.

I’m inching my way to 80 on a thief (crafted him to 35 and currently 45 via wvw karma train). Would healing power matter at all if I use signet of malice instead of withdraw (plan to use assassin’s reward and sigil of blood)?

My 1st choice for armor was to go full knights, but the 14k hp isn’t sitting well with me (used to 19k hp on my full glass warrior). My only options for vit and prec is magi.

The general consensus is that Malice is the least optimal heal. It benefits the least from healing power (*0.5, versus *0.6 for withdraw, and *1 for HiS). It’s also generally agreed that using Malice along with a signet build is not optimal, because you need to activate Malice to gain a benefit from signet usage, but since it wont provide the passive heal while on cooldown, it’s believed that you should not activate Malice often, and instead keep the passive effect up.

That’s not to say you shouldn’t explore the possibilities and mess with builds to suite your playstyle! That’s just the general view.

Also, healing power is not usually a concern for thieves. You could always (and most do) go down the Shadow Arts line, which gives you plenty of healing power.

Knights is good gear, maybe mix in Valk for some HP and crit damage. I personally mix in Soldiers, Valk, or Zerker, 2 of the 3 depending on my build.

I’d say starting out, you should have your thief at around 18k HP and at least 1200 toughness, more if you feel too glassy. I run 16-17.5k and no additional toughness. Going full glass is also very doable if you go high stealth, as that playstyle is very forgiving.