Guild Wars 2

both have the same purpose so please tell me why bladetrail was not nerf? Bladetrail does a kitten load of damage when you have targets together.

Because its guild war(rior)s and not guild thieves, guild mesmers, guild rangers etc
Devs already stated: Wars are the only prof that is working completely balanced and as intended
So basically we will have patches until every single skill in game is either warrior skill, weak version of warrior skill of another profession, or a aoe buff that benefits warriors the most.

Because it deals less damage, has a cooldown, longer cast time, lower travel speed and doesn’t hover to the target, being a skillshot.

too bad I can’t find the video a warrior bladetrail doing 42k damage to a necro with pets and so you know is has cool down sames as a thief, but you cool down is 1 skill, for the thief is all the skills when you use all initiatives.

wait. did some one in this thread say blade trail is WORSE than DD?
I’ll trade anytime. And I’ll trade my haste for your zerk anytime. Heck, I’d love to trade everything I have for even half of what warrior has. If that didn’t make me a warrior

xbutcherx.3861:

too bad I can’t find the video a warrior bladetrail doing 42k damage to a necro with pets and so you know is has cool down sames as a thief, but you cool down is 1 skill, for the thief is all the skills when you use all initiatives.

You do realize they (claim to have) fixed the bug with piercing/bouncing shots that caused that right?

Bladetrail…

*is slow
*travels in a line
*didn’t do as much damage in the first place (bugs aside)
*has a cooldown
*1s lower cripple

Honestly its only redeeming feature is that it can hit AI and stupid people twice.

LameFox.6349:

Bladetrail…

*is slow
*travels in a line

Something that people forget often when discussing Dancing Dagger is that it also shares these attributes. On paper the old DD looked like an amazing burst ability, but the slow straight projectile meant that amazing on-paper damage was rarely achieved except in PvE, and PvP situations like one opponent trying to revive a downed opponent. The former isn’t much of an issue and the latter gave thieves an excellent punishing technique for that particular situation.

As an ambush skill for unmoving unsuspecting targets, dancing dagger was very effective (just like most thief skills in that situation), but in dynamic high-speed combat it took a good amount of positioning and anticipation to use effectively. Abilities like DD that reward skill based play should be encouraged, not destroyed because they’re situationally rewarding.

When I say ‘travels in a line’ I mean ’doesn’t seek out enemies to bounce between’.

LameFox.6349:

When I say ‘travels in a line’ I mean ’doesn’t seek out enemies to bounce between’.

Dancing Dagger doesn’t seek either, nor do the bounced projectiles it generates on contact. They’re all rather slow straight-line projectiles.

xbutcherx.3861:

too bad I can’t find the video a warrior bladetrail doing 42k damage to a necro with pets and so you know is has cool down sames as a thief, but you cool down is 1 skill, for the thief is all the skills when you use all initiatives.

Here,i found it for you:

•Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.

Fthat

Tulisin.6945:

LameFox.6349:

When I say ‘travels in a line’ I mean ’doesn’t seek out enemies to bounce between’.

Dancing Dagger doesn’t seek either, nor do the bounced projectiles it generates on contact. They’re all rather slow straight-line projectiles.

The ‘to’ is important in that sentence.

At any rate: the point is that dancing dagger can multi-hit under way more versatile conditions than bladetrail. I think it goes faster but it might just feel like it since it’s so much harder to see… which in either case still falls well in its favour.

LameFox.6349:

Tulisin.6945:

LameFox.6349:

When I say ‘travels in a line’ I mean ’doesn’t seek out enemies to bounce between’.

Dancing Dagger doesn’t seek either, nor do the bounced projectiles it generates on contact. They’re all rather slow straight-line projectiles.

The ‘to’ is important in that sentence.

At any rate: the point is that dancing dagger can multi-hit under way more versatile conditions than bladetrail. I think it goes faster but it might just feel like it since it’s so much harder to see… which in either case still falls well in its favour.

Actually, Bladetrail is quite a bit better than Dancing Dagger, especially on single target or in large AoE. However, in terms of fighting two players, Dancing Dagger was a great damage source. Now, it’s an awful damage source, and only a high initiative cost cripple (1/3 of our base initiative aka our global cooldown).

Warriors have a 10 point trait in the Vitality tree which causes a 1s Immobilize whenever they cripple an opponent. Because Bladetrail hits twice, and therefore cripples twice, it can apply 2s Immobilize on a 900 range ability. Not only that, but it can do it in AoE. Dancing Dagger can apply Cripple on 1-4 targets, yes, but you do absolutely no damage, and aside from chasing (which thief already excels at due to instant distance closers, so a cripple is kind of useless), Dancing Dagger currently has no use. Maybe in P/D builds so you can kite, but that’s basically it. They pretty much removed the 4 ability of Dagger off-hand from S/D and D/D builds. Infiltrator’s Strike is far better than Dancing Dagger for chasing in a S/D build. It always was, but it at least used to give them a somewhat good damage option.

Trying to act like DD is better than Bladetrail is just silly. After a 50% damage nerf, it’s a waste of initiative. I agree that, in terms of 2v1, thief could win just by spamming Dancing Dagger. A nerf was needed, but they should have raised the initiative cost to 5 or lowered the damage by 15-25%. 50% is just absurd. No class deserves a 50% damage reduction on any ability. If you think this is okay, you’re delusional.

Can hit twice. Like I said somewhere higher up the thread, it’s good for AI and stupid people. That, or if you can set it up to hit and turn around in almost the same moment, but it’s not easy on another person. The projectile is huge and obvious though (I mean it’s quite literally the difference between a greatsword and a dagger) and unless you’ve traited into immobilise on cripple they should, if they’ve any idea what’s going on, just dodge. If not before it hits at all then at least before it comes back.

It’s also not very good for chasing IME because it still has to catch up to them, and therefore won’t actually work from 900 range. If I was going for that trait I’d much prefer the rifle’s #2 ability (1200 ranged, faster, and piercing), the hammer’s #3 (speaking of AoE…) or better yet, avoid the trait altogether and use off hand mace’s line of knockdown. It travels (very) slowly as well, but has 1200 range and… is a knockdown. Once you get used to it it’s a really awesome skill for fighting and catching people, not to forget interrupting.

As for DD, I never said I agreed with the way the nerf was done, but for a cripple I much prefer it. It’s quick (or at least I’ve never had issues with it being outrun or sidestepped), harder to see, and will bounce from one person to another (and back again, if there’s only two) without me having to line them up. I do think they should reduce its cost now that it’s lots so much damage, though, because frankly cripple isn’t that awesome.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the axe’s ranged cripple can be traited to also immobilise and combined with the o/h mace’s knockdown line for awesomeness.

EDIT2: I accidentally an apostrophe.

LameFox.6349:

Can hit twice. Like I said somewhere higher up the thread, it’s good for AI and stupid people. That, or if you can set it up to hit and turn around in almost the same moment, but it’s not easy on another person. The projectile is huge and obvious though (I mean it’s quite literally the difference between a greatsword and a dagger) and unless you’ve traited into immobilise on cripple they should, if they’ve any idea what’s going on, just dodge. If not before it hits at all then at least before it comes back.

It’s also not very good for chasing IME because it still has to catch up to them, and therefore won’t actually work from 900 range. If I was going for that trait I’d much prefer the rifle’s #2 ability (1200 ranged, faster, and piercing), the hammer’s #3 (speaking of AoE…) or better yet, avoid the trait altogether and use off hand mace’s line of knockdown. It travels (very) slowly as well, but has 1200 range and… is a knockdown. Once you get used to it it’s a really awesome skill for fighting and catching people, not to forget interrupting.

As for DD, I never said I agreed with the way the nerf was done, but for a cripple I much prefer it. It’s quick (or at least I’ve never had issues with it being outrun or sidestepped), harder to see, and will bounce from one person to another (and back again, if there’s only two) without me having to line them up. I do think they should reduce it’s cost now that it’s lots so much damage, though, because frankly cripple isn’t that awesome.

What a surprise, this also applies to Dancing Dagger.

Having to change to Rifle from Greatsword on a running opponent can be a bad thing, so having an immobilize on a 900 range ability from the Greatsword is good, no matter how you look at it.

You’re throwing multiple abilities out for no reason. Unless you can use all of those at once, along with the Greatsword, having them all listed is pointless. The fact is you have a 900 range ability that can immobilize if traited for it. Acting like, “Oh, it sucks because THIS ability we have is better,” isn’t helping your case. You’re basically saying, “yeah, we have far better options than even Bladetrail, which is currently better than Dancing Dagger.” Thanks for proving the thread’s point.

I also said “can” when I said it hits twice (“can apply immobilize twice”). I don’t know why you’re acting like I said, “it hits twice no matter what happens.”

‘Because Bladetrail hits twice…’

^That part.

Anyway, I’m mentioning those abilities because they’re awesome. I also didn’t say DD got the full range while BT doesn’t, it was just a response to your pointing out its range at all. I wouldn’t use either of them at longer ranges. Warriors have bow/rifle for that and thieves now have a buffed ‘Get over here!’ utility (note that warriors have one snare utility that still only goes to 900 and is frankly terrible).

Okay, to recap, I prefer DD because:

*harder to see, and possibly also faster but not confirmed
*hits guy A, bounces to guy B if he’s within range rather than just going in a straight line away from me
*can be cast three times in a row if I feel like it, on top of any rebounds that might have struck my original target
*1/4s cast time instead of 3/4s
*1s longer inherent cripple

What is funny is Was not bouncing abilities “fixed” in that the subsequent hits were hitting harder than first. So if this was fixed it seems that DD is now in line without a 50% nerf. How come noone is talking about that?

Edelweiss.9815:

Because it deals less damage, has a cooldown, longer cast time, lower travel speed and doesn’t hover to the target, being a skillshot.

This.

Seriously, we can’t go about complaining about everything. This is like the thread comparing Ele’s lightning hammer to Warrior’s hammer.

You do need to consider that, for thief, “i’m not using this ability because THIS ability is better” is a major consideration we have the distinct opportunity of making very often. The way initiative works means that all of our abilities are in constant competition with another. In fact, I’d say its’ the major reason why so many of our abilities seem subpar to us. We’d probably like our abilities a bit more if they where all on separate cool downs, but we get to be the special child class so… yeah.