Guild Wars 2

Which 3rd trait will you use? I assuming you already got DD and Trickery.

Please explain why.

Deadly Arts – I run a hybrid trapper/venom build. DD is gonna push my condi build over the edge into insane territory.

DA: More damage is always good. Plus, when used with daggers + lotus poison and Weakening Strikes, you should be able to maintain high weakness uptime.

or

CS: Build with SoP and Signet of Agility and you’ll have great evasion, not to mention SoA could be worth clearing 1-3 condis when combined with the dodge trait.

but

Not Acro: Aside from HtC, DD does Acro, but better. Trickery provides 50% vigor uptime already, so doubling down on the same line would be a significant loss in damage for minor gains.

Shadow Arts!
1. I love being a resbot.
2. Make the most out of limited stealth on staff.
3. Added sustain. I enjoy the play-style of offensive gear and defensive traits.

T.T I’m gonna miss you mug!
DA, SA, and CS are all fantastic lines. Can’t go wrong really.

Shadow Arts. I love team support with my venoms build. Also I’m going for a P/P bleed build (thanks to the new stealth on Black Powder from Daredevil) so my it’s good to enhance my stealth. All those dodges coupled with stealth and Trickery give you tons of survivality so I can be wherever I want to support my team (be it in the middle of combat or shooting from a distance) and be effective.

Probably DA, maybe CS.
I don’t think I could live without Mug, Improvisation and Panic Strike are both quite amazing aswell. Actually, maybe DD can give enough surviveability for me to ditch Improvisation for Executioner… That’d be amazing, going to have to try it out!
CS is just something I want to try, not revealing my plans for it yet though :P
I could also see myself running with Acrobatics every once in a while just for trolling. I’m curious to find out what I can do with DD overall.

The ontly traitline I don’t see myself running with it is SA. Then again, I allready avoid SA like the plague becaase I personally find that it offers too many crutches.
I only run SA if I’m up against condi-heavy opponents, really.

I am hesitating between DA or Acro. I m am just mainly worried about the conditions to be honest. The rest I am pretty sure I can manage.

Kocoff.7582:

I am hesitating between DA or Acro. I m am just mainly worried about the conditions to be honest. The rest I am pretty sure I can manage.

DD has excellent condition management just by itself, bordering on OP (theoretically). Removing conditions on evade should bring the sustain of S/D way up. Alternatively, if you didn’t take the condi removal, you could keep SA and take the damage on interrupt with D/P and make headshots hit for 2k.

Maugetarr.6823:

Kocoff.7582:

I am hesitating between DA or Acro. I m am just mainly worried about the conditions to be honest. The rest I am pretty sure I can manage.

DD has excellent condition management just by itself, bordering on OP (theoretically). Removing conditions on evade should bring the sustain of S/D way up. Alternatively, if you didn’t take the condi removal, you could keep SA and take the damage on interrupt with D/P and make headshots hit for 2k.

Do you think it will be possible to have Impacting Disruption and still have decent condition cleaning?

Yes! With traited tricks, traited stealth, and infiltrators strike (what I’m currently running), condis aren’t much of a threat.

Edit: Oh wait you were talking about d/p. With more stealth the same should apply, but is DD even worth taking on d/p? The 10% damage modifier has some synergy with backstabs, though it’d be difficult to make use of unless you run dash. I feel like every other weapon set benefits more from DD but I’d be happy to be proven wrong.

Well, if staff dps is high enough, then for PvE meta it will likely be DA/ CS/ DD.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvALkBlw~

Difficult to know how good staff dps is but from the video, Karl who was using a Marauder amulet, Vault did same dps as rear back stab while auto attack chain dps is slightly less than dagger chain dps (remembering 2 dagger chains can be completed for 1 staff). That dps loss might well be compensated by Evasive empowerment and staff mastery as well as the bounding dodger trait for extra dps.

If the math shows the 5-10% dps boost from lead attacks is more than the benefit of DD line though, then PvE meta may not use DD at all. Remember DD provides only a little control and even less group support.

With the insane condi removal trait DD line has, it will almost certainly have a place in PvP/ WvW. I know my PU Condi mesmer is already cringing at fighting DDs.

Toss up between DA and acro. I want to get as close to a perma evade as I can since I’m taking the bounding dodge. I was going to math if the dmg from dodges works out to make it more worthwhile to take acro.

reinforever.8902:

Toss up between DA and acro. I want to get as close to a perma evade as I can since I’m taking the bounding dodge. I was going to math if the dmg from dodges works out to make it more worthwhile to take acro.

#TrapMasterFlex how have you been man. Here we are trying to figure out the best thing with the Daredevil, I really want to take Impacting Disruption but i just have a terrible feeling about it.

and also get rid of Shadow refuge.

I’ve got a really stupid question:

Why is trickery assumed to be included in nearly every Thief build ever? All I see it offering is some minimal boonshare on steal that can easily be covered by other classes, and 15% damage assuming you sit at Init cap.

Is there some great gimmick to it that I’m missing? I don’t use Trickery at all on my Thief, and had zero intention of including it in a DD build, but it seems so popular that I have to assume I’m doin’ it wrong.

(Talking from PVE perspective, for what that’s worth)

Endlos.4852:

I’ve got a really stupid question:

Why is trickery assumed to be included in nearly every Thief build ever? All I see it offering is some minimal boonshare on steal that can easily be covered by other classes, and 15% damage assuming you sit at Init cap.

Is there some great gimmick to it that I’m missing? I don’t use Trickery at all on my Thief, and had zero intention of including it in a DD build, but it seems so popular that I have to assume I’m doin’ it wrong.

(Talking from PVE perspective, for what that’s worth)

You PvE, that’s why. Trickery is the best thing that happened to Thief.
+ Increased Initiative pool
+ Reduce CD on Steal
+ Reduce CD on tricks
+ Sleight of Hand
+Boon Theft and share.

These are essential traits in WvW and Outnumbered fights.

You are not doing it wrong, but in a PvE perspective, a decreased CD on Steal allows you to use stolen twice as many times overtime it also allows you do share your boons twice as often it’s good support.

@ kocoff: I think you’d have about the same condition cleansing if you kept SA as current D/P, but you’d be able to stealth differently. You could dodge roll through your BPS for stealth and also trigger the damage on dodge buff. You’d lose mug, but gain damage on interrupt, so you’ll really only be losing the health from mug if you time steals well (paired with SoH). You might have to worry about stealth on steal and this trait paired though because of the delayed damage. I’m not running traited condi cleanse on S/D currently, so I’ll be trying combinations of DD/Tr/DAorCS. Removal on evade with such a low CD and no restrictions on the removed condis should be able to keep up with their application.

Maugetarr.6823:

@ kocoff: I think you’d have about the same condition cleansing if you kept SA as current D/P, but you’d be able to stealth differently. You could dodge roll through your BPS for stealth and also trigger the damage on dodge buff. You’d lose mug, but gain damage on interrupt, so you’ll really only be losing the health from mug if you time steals well (paired with SoH). You might have to worry about stealth on steal and this trait paired though because of the delayed damage. I’m not running traited condi cleanse on S/D currently, so I’ll be trying combinations of DD/Tr/DAorCS. Removal on evade with such a low CD and no restrictions on the removed condis should be able to keep up with their application.

So the answer here is pretty much “no”.

If you get DD/ Trickery / DA or CS , you must trait Escapist’s Absolution. Assuming we are both talking about WvW or pvp action. I think DD and SA are complete opposite of the spectrum and I cannot seem to understand the benefit of both since both are fairly defensive in different aspect of the combat (One being revealed the other in completely stealth).

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

supa suop.8026:

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

I got a question for you too, this time about Pain Reponse.

If all 3 of those conditions are on me; Bleed, Poison & Torment. Will Pain Response clean them all at the same time? or just one of them?

Kocoff.7582:

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

Apologies, I did not make my question clear enough , or perhaps I have misread your answer.

What I meant is when I get Palm Strike will I have the skill till I use it, or will it revert back to Fist flurry after a few seconds if I choose not to use it?

Kocoff.7582:

supa suop.8026:

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

I got a question for you too, this time about Pain Reponse.

If all 3 of those conditions are on me; Bleed, Poison & Torment. Will Pain Response clean them all at the same time? or just one of them?

Pain Response will clear Burning, Poison and Bleeding when you’re hit below 75% on a 30s ICD…
problem with Pain Response is, it also triggers if you got no conditions at all and get hit while below 75% health

I’m thinking of running a build without trickery XD.
CS/SA/DD to play around with more dmg-prevention through blind and more dmg application through Interrupts as well as much more survivalability through stealth (and with this the knock down on staff)….

But I have to try, trickery seems a really great (maybe the ebst) choice to spec in with DD…..have to wait until next week…

Tarkan.5609:

Kocoff.7582:

supa suop.8026:

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

I got a question for you too, this time about Pain Reponse.

If all 3 of those conditions are on me; Bleed, Poison & Torment. Will Pain Response clean them all at the same time? or just one of them?

Pain Response will clear Burning, Poison and Bleeding when you’re hit below 75% on a 30s ICD…
problem with Pain Response is, it also triggers if you got no conditions at all and get hit while below 75% health

oh wow that’s pretty stupid :/ There goes my faith for Acro. This trait is really badly designed it’s crazy.

supa suop.8026:

Kocoff.7582:

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

Apologies, I did not make my question clear enough , or perhaps I have misread your answer.

What I meant is when I get Palm Strike will I have the skill till I use it, or will it revert back to Fist flurry after a few seconds if I choose not to use it?

Yes sir, it will revert back after 5 seconds.

Tarkan.5609:

Kocoff.7582:

supa suop.8026:

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

I got a question for you too, this time about Pain Reponse.

If all 3 of those conditions are on me; Bleed, Poison & Torment. Will Pain Response clean them all at the same time? or just one of them?

Pain Response will clear Burning, Poison and Bleeding when you’re hit below 75% on a 30s ICD…
problem with Pain Response is, it also triggers if you got no conditions at all and get hit while below 75% health

It actually a 20 second cooldown. It should be tweaked however to read if below 75 percent health and having one of burning poison or torment clear burning poison and torment. Alternatively it could change to “If over the threshold in total burning , poison and torment stacks clear those conditions” and then make the threshold 6 stacks. keep the ICD and remove the need to be under 75 percent health.

babazhook.6805:

Tarkan.5609:

Kocoff.7582:

supa suop.8026:

For PvP, i’m thinking of DA, or Acro. with the introduction of Bounding dodger i’m keen on trying to make an interruption build With S/P, Staff and the trait Impacting Disruption.

DA for more panic strike strike , dmg ,or improvisation.

Acro is for the Pain Response and HtC just in case I get into a tight spot.

Though I have a question: is the skill Fist Flurry the same as FS where if you land it you only get a few seconds to use LS before it reverts back?

About Fist Flurry: yes. All kittens need to hit the target in order for it to turn into a Palm Strike. So just like Flanking Strike, it has a subskill on the condition that it hits.

I got a question for you too, this time about Pain Reponse.

If all 3 of those conditions are on me; Bleed, Poison & Torment. Will Pain Response clean them all at the same time? or just one of them?

Pain Response will clear Burning, Poison and Bleeding when you’re hit below 75% on a 30s ICD…
problem with Pain Response is, it also triggers if you got no conditions at all and get hit while below 75% health

It actually a 20 second cooldown. It should be tweaked however to read if below 75 percent health and having one of burning poison or torment clear burning poison and torment. Alternatively it could change to “If over the threshold in total burning , poison and torment stacks clear those conditions” and then make the threshold 6 stacks. keep the ICD and remove the need to be under 75 percent health.

6 Stacks of threshold is huge. It should be half that.
So it’s completely broken right.

75% threshold wit a 20 sec cd. that’s barely usable.

It depend on what build. Here some possible combination that could work (we’ll have to test them).

D/P (DA/TRICK/DD) : on the current meta, SA is mostly for survivability, which DD can do better IMO. Mostly because while dodging you don’t let the enemy decap the point. The big problem here is the lost of Hidden Thief.

S/D (DA/TRICK/DD) : Mostly getting back the old S/D build with some upgrade.

D/D (DA/DD with TRICK or ACRO) : Condition build. You mostly dodge and #3 to evade while doing condition. Trick isn’t as mandatory there, so maybe Acro would be better because in that situation, more dodge = more damage.

Thaddeus.4891:

It depend on what build. Here some possible combination that could work (we’ll have to test them).

D/P (DA/TRICK/DD) : on the current meta, SA is mostly for survivability, which DD can do better IMO. Mostly because while dodging you don’t let the enemy decap the point. The big problem here is the lost of Hidden Thief.

S/D (DA/TRICK/DD) : Mostly getting back the old S/D build with some upgrade.

D/D (DA/DD with TRICK or ACRO) : Condition build. You mostly dodge and #3 to evade while doing condition. Trick isn’t as mandatory there, so maybe Acro would be better because in that situation, more dodge = more damage.

I can tell already S/D is definitely going to be the new kitten nal. But I am going to try out S/P, with DA at first, if it’s too punishing, i ll try Pain Response.

Terra.8571:

Well, if staff dps is high enough, then for PvE meta it will likely be DA/ CS/ DD.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcBvALkBlw~

Difficult to know how good staff dps is but from the video, Karl who was using a Marauder amulet, Vault did same dps as rear back stab while auto attack chain dps is slightly less than dagger chain dps (remembering 2 dagger chains can be completed for 1 staff). That dps loss might well be compensated by Evasive empowerment and staff mastery as well as the bounding dodger trait for extra dps.

If the math shows the 5-10% dps boost from lead attacks is more than the benefit of DD line though, then PvE meta may not use DD at all. Remember DD provides only a little control and even less group support.

With the insane condi removal trait DD line has, it will almost certainly have a place in PvP/ WvW. I know my PU Condi mesmer is already cringing at fighting DDs.

Yea, I’ll likely go with something like this for PvE.

For PvP…I’m torn.

I’d really like to justify using staff, but I think the condi removal on dodge will be a necessity for a non-stealth build, which kills the only trait which boosts staff usage (staff master).

I’m hoping to be able to get some good usage out of something like this though (tr/da/dd): http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcF2AGoBmw~

Dahkeus.8243:

I’d really like to justify using staff, but I think the condi removal on dodge will be a necessity for a non-stealth build, which kills the only trait which boosts staff usage (staff master).

I’m hoping to be able to get some good usage out of something like this though (tr/da/dd): http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcF2AGoBmw~

I keep going back and forth on decisions like that, this one in particular is one of them, you have to soften up one aspect of a build to strengthen another with these traits so currently I’m sticking with Flanking Strikes -> Trickster with Withdraw as my heal for one condition clear and Flanking Strikes Haste as another, unless that’s changed, I haven’t had much time to play lately. I know DDvl has a better condition clear that doesn’t take up utility slots but I want to give Staff a decent go at it.

I know in general it’s supposed to be better to take Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft but I haven’t used those in awhile in my Acro build anyway and am liking the feel of Flanking Strikes after getting a grip on positioning to only tag the back or side when I want. Mostly I’m just hardening myself for using Staff which might not hold up to other weapons sets but the staff and this trait line are exactly what I had wanted in the Thief since before launch I’m all in no matter how it pans out.

Maugetarr.6823:

CS: Build with SoP and Signet of Agility and you’ll have great evasion, not to mention SoA could be worth clearing 1-3 condis when combined with the dodge trait.

This is my personal pick (DD/CS/TR) because of what Maugetarr posted but also the synergy of Practiced Tolerace, No Quarter and Thrill of the Crime is just too good to pass.

kash.9213:

Dahkeus.8243:

I’d really like to justify using staff, but I think the condi removal on dodge will be a necessity for a non-stealth build, which kills the only trait which boosts staff usage (staff master).

I’m hoping to be able to get some good usage out of something like this though (tr/da/dd): http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgcF2AGoBmw~

I keep going back and forth on decisions like that, this one in particular is one of them, you have to soften up one aspect of a build to strengthen another with these traits so currently I’m sticking with Flanking Strikes -> Trickster with Withdraw as my heal for one condition clear and Flanking Strikes Haste as another, unless that’s changed, I haven’t had much time to play lately. I know DDvl has a better condition clear that doesn’t take up utility slots but I want to give Staff a decent go at it.

I know in general it’s supposed to be better to take Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft but I haven’t used those in awhile in my Acro build anyway and am liking the feel of Flanking Strikes after getting a grip on positioning to only tag the back or side when I want. Mostly I’m just hardening myself for using Staff which might not hold up to other weapons sets but the staff and this trait line are exactly what I had wanted in the Thief since before launch I’m all in no matter how it pans out.

Yea, I could never take Trickster over Bountiful Theft for PvP. It’s nothing against Trickster, but Bountiful Theft is half of what allows thieves to interrupt stability stomps/rezzes, which I’ve found has been absolutely clutch to many games.

The condi cleanse is a tough point, however. I’ve honestly considered going with Staff Master, then picking up the Shadow Arts line (Tr/SA/DD) for the condi removal on stealth. While you don’t have much stealth with staff, you do still will be able to stealth on steal (which makes for a great CC combo with staff) and you can always utilize a utility skill for stealth as well.

DA – I’m too addicted to improv’s double stolen item use and random craziness from lucky recharge procs.

The stuff I use acro for (condi cleanse, end, and extra passive healing) will be done massively better by DD, and all I lose is a reactive stun counter, which I don’t need any more since I’ve got a much lower CD stunbreak avaliable from DD.