Guild Wars 2

In PvE I currently am using D/D and Shortbow. I’m running Deadly Arts, and Critical Strikes but I’m not sure whether to use Daredevil as my third specialization, considering I’m not using the staff.

I’ve never had a problem with endurance before, so the extra endurance bar from Physical Supremacy makes no difference really. The health gain from Driven Fortitude seems negligible. I usually open fights with Steal, so the endurance gain from Endurance Thief isn’t really gonna help me either.

The Daredevil trait lines also seems to wanna force you to use up your endurance just for the procs from the grand trait lines (Bounding Dodger, etc.) so I’m ending up running out of endurance moreso than when I’m NOT using Daredevil, even though I’ve got a third endurance bar, which is meant to make it easier. Then again, if I wanna save my endurance for important situations, my Bounding Dodger ability just sits gathering dust.

I know they are called ‘Elite’ Specializations, so does that make them 100% worth taking? Am I gonna be gimping myself somehow by not running Daredevil?

Thank you guys.

DD is pretty much unquestionably tied for the best or second-best trait line at the moment, with Trickery often finding its way to the top just because it’s basically necessary.

It offers some of the highest damage and best defenses of the trait lines. If you didn’t plan on running Trickery, then DA/CS/DD is the highest-possible damage build available to the thief, even if not using a staff (staff dominates DPS when building for it, though). You will miss out on substantial steal-utility and initiative when not building for Trickery, however.

Typically it’s smarter to run DA/DD/Tr or CS/Tr/DD for PvE. As far as running out of endurance goes, Channeled Vigor is pretty ridiculous for refunding endurance, and there’s enough endurance regeneration in there to keep high uptime of the effects without too many issues via Endurance thief, staff master, and BT.

Depends on your needs, though. Building more defensive means less uptime on the GM trait bonuses, but amazing condition cleansing/mobility/damage mitigation/utilities.

Okay, great. How exactly are people setting up their DD build? Not sure which of the traits to use, if not using staff :/

It’s not just worth it, the dodge effects and damage boosts in DD make it almost a necessity in any serious PvE build.

Bound and Havoc are fantastic for power builds, Lotus Training is a unique condi DPS boost, and Dash is great for getting around. Not to mention the great utilities like Fist Flurry and Impairing Daggers. Why would you not run DD?

Edit: What kind of build are you going for?

Usually I use DA/CS/Tr with S/P. Decent damage, plenty of evades with PW, alot of CC.

I also like DA/CS/DD build with Staff. It provides great AoE damage. But unfortunately this build does not offer any CC.

S/P without Tr is not an option for me, cos it has lack of ini. But DD is more useful for D/D build than Tr I guess.

Condi DD with d/d is definetly a thing, because of Lotus training. Brazil made a good video on it, just look up condi daredevil gw2

You don’t need DrD in PvE however it has the best AoE weapon (the staff) so it’s something that you may want to have. That’s really up to your build and playstyle if DrD fits flawlessly.

In my build, CS/Acro/DrD, I used S/D + P/P on single target fights (boss) and D/D + S/B on trash mobs — I used to carry Staff for the trash mobs, but the animation of the staff skills really bugs me. Other than the Staff AA, the rest of the skills’ animation looks awkward, specially Vault. So my choice not to take Staff is subjective — objectively, it has the best AoE damage and two skills with evade. Those two evades works well with Driven and Escapist, so if you choose to not take the Staff, choose a weapon set with evade, otherwise you won’t benefit much from DrD.

The main reason I take DrD is Unhindered Combatant and access to the Physical Skills like Fist Flurry and Bandit’s Defense.

The nice thing about DD line is it so easy to intergrate in any type build AND it has an ability to focus on defense or offense.

As example you can load on Staff mastery/havoc mastery and bounding to get 10+7+10 percent power damage.

You can take weakening strikes with a weaponset with weakness access (staff or sword) and go for unhindered so you can ward off immobs/cripples chills and get high battlefield mobility along with 10+10 percent damage mitigation. Use this in conjunction with the 10 percent damage mitigation food using those mussel recipes and you get a real nice increase to your ability to ward off damage.

There is really a good reason to take all of the traits in a variety of builds. (Staff mastery of course being the only outlier here as it Staff specific) so can tune the build to your liking much more easily.

Here you go, this will help with all your questions.
[DnT] DPS Thief Build Guide For Raids 2/4/16
https://youtu.be/9EwUGweU7jA

Much appreciated guys, thank you!

I think more people use DD with Dagger than Staff.

for any build with offhand pistol it gives you access to stealth on demand through Black powder and Bound
this gives P/P thieves some nice survival and its especially tasty on s/p builds based around Pistol Whip since the stun can also trigger Impacting Disruption

Liewec.2896:

for any build with offhand pistol it gives you access to stealth on demand through Black powder and Bound
this gives P/P thieves some nice survival

In theory, maybe, in reality, no. Bound is the worst you can give to P/P but UC fits with the build beautifully. If I want to go stealth, I’d use Trapper runes — it’s more reliable than trying to leap to BP using Bound.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Liewec.2896:

for any build with offhand pistol it gives you access to stealth on demand through Black powder and Bound
this gives P/P thieves some nice survival

In theory, maybe, in reality, no. Bound is the worst you can give to P/P but UC fits with the build beautifully. If I want to go stealth, I’d use Trapper runes — it’s more reliable than trying to leap to BP using Bound.

With trappers you have to of course give up a utility for at least one trap. I found this just not enough stealth to make it worthwhile and grabbing two traps means sacrificing something like fist flurry bandits defense and the like.

I think for stealth in a staff build you far better of training the SA line , taking hidden thief and using one of blinding powder or SR.

The stealth from this method far more reliable and pulling off a triple PI even as you do regular damage is very doable and like trappers runes you not burning INI for that stealth.

Better yet put on trappers runes, trait one trap and take SA with hidden thief.

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Liewec.2896:

for any build with offhand pistol it gives you access to stealth on demand through Black powder and Bound
this gives P/P thieves some nice survival

In theory, maybe, in reality, no. Bound is the worst you can give to P/P but UC fits with the build beautifully. If I want to go stealth, I’d use Trapper runes — it’s more reliable than trying to leap to BP using Bound.

With trappers you have to of course give up a utility for at least one trap. I found this just not enough stealth to make it worthwhile and grabbing two traps means sacrificing something like fist flurry bandits defense and the like.

I think for stealth in a staff build you far better of training the SA line , taking hidden thief and using one of blinding powder or SR.

The stealth from this method far more reliable and pulling off a triple PI even as you do regular damage is very doable and like trappers runes you not burning INI for that stealth.

Better yet put on trappers runes, trait one trap and take SA with hidden thief.

Trapper Rune + Trapper’s Respite + Withdraw + Trickster works very well for a short cooldown trap (also ton of utility with heal becoming an offensive weapon coupled with heal/evade/condition removal). The issue is giving up the CS line (mainly Ankle Shots – it’s a pain, that this trait wasn’t moved/swapped to Deadly Arts (GM – like Improvisation trait swapped and then add a little Richochet addition to new Ankle Shots for GM trait level)

That would go a long ways to making Pistol/Trap a leap closer to viable build types.

As is, not bad but not great either.

babazhook.6805:

Better yet put on trappers runes, trait one trap and take SA with hidden thief.

That one. The only useful trap is Ambush.

Vanchatron.2306:

I know they are called ‘Elite’ Specializations, so does that make them 100% worth taking? Am I gonna be gimping myself somehow by not running Daredevil?

I’d like to point out, that despite their name, Elite Specializations are in NO way meant to be superior to the old trait lines. This is something Anet have said several times. Problem is, they just so happened to make pretty much every ES at least in the top 3 trait lines for their respective profession. But it might change if they get the older trait lines balanced – so don’t get too much into the “Elite stands for better” kind of thought.

I’d recommend DA/Tr/DD, or CS/Tr/DD. Tr and DD is simply too good to pass up.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

babazhook.6805:

Better yet put on trappers runes, trait one trap and take SA with hidden thief.

That one. The only useful trap is Ambush.

I find Ambush or Shadowtrap both work. Ambush has a lower cooldown so more available and that thief will be a significant distraction as he attacks. Shadow trap has a longer cooldown but it does provide two stealth sources and one that is long lasting (6 seconds) and gives all those lovely stacks of might with fury. More hook strikes and I like hook strikes.

Ambush is more a fire and forget as in you do not have to do anything else once triggered. Shadow trap requires you to react to when it triggered in order to use trap portion.

Artaz.3819:

babazhook.6805:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Liewec.2896:

for any build with offhand pistol it gives you access to stealth on demand through Black powder and Bound
this gives P/P thieves some nice survival

In theory, maybe, in reality, no. Bound is the worst you can give to P/P but UC fits with the build beautifully. If I want to go stealth, I’d use Trapper runes — it’s more reliable than trying to leap to BP using Bound.

With trappers you have to of course give up a utility for at least one trap. I found this just not enough stealth to make it worthwhile and grabbing two traps means sacrificing something like fist flurry bandits defense and the like.

I think for stealth in a staff build you far better of training the SA line , taking hidden thief and using one of blinding powder or SR.

The stealth from this method far more reliable and pulling off a triple PI even as you do regular damage is very doable and like trappers runes you not burning INI for that stealth.

Better yet put on trappers runes, trait one trap and take SA with hidden thief.

Trapper Rune + Trapper’s Respite + Withdraw + Trickster works very well for a short cooldown trap (also ton of utility with heal becoming an offensive weapon coupled with heal/evade/condition removal). The issue is giving up the CS line (mainly Ankle Shots – it’s a pain, that this trait wasn’t moved/swapped to Deadly Arts (GM – like Improvisation trait swapped and then add a little Richochet addition to new Ankle Shots for GM trait level)

That would go a long ways to making Pistol/Trap a leap closer to viable build types.

As is, not bad but not great either.

Yes that works as well and I used it for some time before the downtweak to the trappers runes. Speaking to a staff build however , if someone wants to trait Staff mastery or PI in such a build escapists is given up and DA does not offer anything in the way of condition removal. I do not think you can cobble enough together using the trickery line so take SA for the SE.

It then becomes trickery , cs , acro or DA. In my own build i want those interrupts and boonsteals so went trickery.

I can then trait Staff mastery for yet more damage and that endurance gain or the PI and fire off thsoe interrupts which will do far more damage than mug and coupled with a sigil of draining even more healing.

I’d like to point out, that despite their name, Elite Specializations are in NO way meant to be superior to the old trait lines. This is something Anet have said several times. Problem is, they just so happened to make pretty much every ES at least in the top 3 trait lines for their respective profession. But it might change if they get the older trait lines balanced – so don’t get too much into the “Elite stands for better” kind of thought.

To some extent, it’s just not reality and it won’t ever be. Like, if the intentions of Anet are to keep introducing Elite Specializations with future expansions to provide new playstyles, adding more and more to a pool that is always going to be limited to 3 choices either results in constant power creep or elite specializations that players have no incentive to use and thus, not buy future content.

CCGs, like Hearthstone and Magic the Gathering, run into this issue a lot, because they are constantly introducing new cards into an ever increasing pool. And since the deck sizes are limited to a fixed number, you get to this point where the pool is so saturated, card designers are limited in their ability to produce cards that players actually want to use competitively. They create standardized formats of competitive play that push out old expansions and flush the pool of cards to remedy this issue.

It’s the same case here, but to a smaller extent. GW2 consists of competitive play and people are always going to want the most competitive build and introducing elite specializations that don’t come with some degree of power creep will end up being ignored or complained about.

To think that any game designer can hit this perfect balance in which the introduction of a new elite specialization is both competitive and without power creep is unrealistic. It’s even less unrealistic with Anet’s track record of balance.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You don’t need DrD in PvE however it has the best AoE weapon (the staff) so it’s something that you may want to have. That’s really up to your build and playstyle if DrD fits flawlessly.

In my build, CS/Acro/DrD, I used S/D + P/P on single target fights (boss) and D/D + S/B on trash mobs — I used to carry Staff for the trash mobs, but the animation of the staff skills really bugs me. Other than the Staff AA, the rest of the skills’ animation looks awkward, specially Vault. So my choice not to take Staff is subjective — objectively, it has the best AoE damage and two skills with evade. Those two evades works well with Driven and Escapist, so if you choose to not take the Staff, choose a weapon set with evade, otherwise you won’t benefit much from DrD.

The main reason I take DrD is Unhindered Combatant and access to the Physical Skills like Fist Flurry and Bandit’s Defense.

It’s great to finally see someone else using those 3 spec lines together. I know Acro line isn’t great for dps, but PW with Upper Hand and Bounding Dodger makes for a potent combo to get more than the 3 PW’s in before you run out of Ini.

Just curious though, why do you choose UC over BD? I find BD really good with boss fights to stay at the flanks of the boss and just Bound into PW and repeat for the dps boost.

Sukrin.1280:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You don’t need DrD in PvE however it has the best AoE weapon (the staff) so it’s something that you may want to have. That’s really up to your build and playstyle if DrD fits flawlessly.

In my build, CS/Acro/DrD, I used S/D + P/P on single target fights (boss) and D/D + S/B on trash mobs — I used to carry Staff for the trash mobs, but the animation of the staff skills really bugs me. Other than the Staff AA, the rest of the skills’ animation looks awkward, specially Vault. So my choice not to take Staff is subjective — objectively, it has the best AoE damage and two skills with evade. Those two evades works well with Driven and Escapist, so if you choose to not take the Staff, choose a weapon set with evade, otherwise you won’t benefit much from DrD.

The main reason I take DrD is Unhindered Combatant and access to the Physical Skills like Fist Flurry and Bandit’s Defense.

It’s great to finally see someone else using those 3 spec lines together. I know Acro line isn’t great for dps, but PW with Upper Hand and Bounding Dodger makes for a potent combo to get more than the 3 PW’s in before you run out of Ini.

Just curious though, why do you choose UC over BD? I find BD really good with boss fights to stay at the flanks of the boss and just Bound into PW and repeat for the dps boost.

It’s mainly about swiftness and the damage reduction. I’m already doing a lot of damage with my weapon that another boost to damage is just overkill. Also UC is better at repositioning since it has father travel path especially against larger targets.

I think CS and DrD are pretty staple for a PvE build, but Acro, DA and Trickery are all equally competitive third picks.

The PvE build for thiefs in metabattle is based off DA/CS/DrD but that focuses entirely on damage at the expense of a lot of survivability and no condi clear. Unless you are speed clearing dungeons or fractals with an organized team that makes up for those weaknesses, it’s not suited for most casual PvE content or joining public groups in LFG. DA is also kind of a hard pick for Staff, because no one of the master traits are exceptional picks for a PvE staff build.

It ends up being kind of a trade off. If you go Acro, you get a lot more mobility, evasion and stun breakers at the expense of damage. If you go Trickery, you get more CC for break bars and substantial damage increase that works with Staff AAs, but penalizes you for using your hard hitting initiative spending abilities.

I ran Acro for awhile and liked it a lot, but I ended up changing it up for Trickery for a build that focused on shredding break bars and damage. Main downside is the lack of swiftness.

The only thing I will say about Trickery is you take it and you want to run, at least, mid tier fractals, taking it to buff up your steal with boons is somewhat pointless. The mistlock stability that removes boons on dodge punishes daredevils heavility to begin with and it effectively renders those traits impotent.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCVmiFmCGOBkmildCbeB+ArgbBgazBybJEFuCA

MadRabbit.3179:

I think CS and DrD are pretty staple for a PvE build, but Acro, DA and Trickery are all equally competitive third picks.

The PvE build for thiefs in metabattle is based off DA/CS/DrD but that focuses entirely on damage at the expense of a lot of survivability and no condi clear. Unless you are speed clearing dungeons or fractals with an organized team that makes up for those weaknesses, it’s not suited for most casual PvE content or joining public groups in LFG. DA is also kind of a hard pick for Staff, because no one of the master traits are exceptional picks for a PvE staff build.

It ends up being kind of a trade off. If you go Acro, you get a lot more mobility, evasion and stun breakers at the expense of damage. If you go Trickery, you get more CC for break bars and substantial damage increase that works with Staff AAs, but penalizes you for using your hard hitting initiative spending abilities.

I ran Acro for awhile and liked it a lot, but I ended up changing it up for Trickery for a build that focused on shredding break bars and damage. Main downside is the lack of swiftness.

The only thing I will say about Trickery is you take it and you want to run, at least, mid tier fractals, taking it to buff up your steal with boons is somewhat pointless. The mistlock stability that removes boons on dodge punishes daredevils heavility to begin with and it effectively renders those traits impotent.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAWVn8lCVmiFmCGOBkmildCbeB+ArgbBgazBybJEFuCA

IMO, if you pick CS, you need to go Acro and if you pick DA, you need to go Trickery — those pairs just works well together — which means that CS is not a staple.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, if you pick CS, you need to go Acro and if you pick DA, you need to go Trickery — those pairs just works well together — which means that CS is not a staple.

Not challenging the opinion, but genuinely curious; what is the basis for that? Like, looking at Acro and CS, I don’t see the direct synergy.

Like the damage potential from CS comes largely from fury and Trickery, at least, gives you more access to fury with some of it’s trait choices, giving some degree of direct synergy that I just don’t see between CS and Acro.

The reason I consider CS to be staple is because it’s a trait line where every trait gives you some degree of value in PvE, regardless of weapon choice. Other trait lines have trait choices that depending on your weapon become the best of bad options.

MadRabbit.3179:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, if you pick CS, you need to go Acro and if you pick DA, you need to go Trickery — those pairs just works well together — which means that CS is not a staple.

Not challenging the opinion, but genuinely curious; what is the basis for that? Like, looking at Acro and CS, I don’t see the direct synergy.

Like the damage potential from CS comes largely from fury and Trickery, at least, gives you more access to fury with some of it’s trait choices, giving some degree of direct synergy that I just don’t see between CS and Acro.

The reason I consider CS to be staple is because it’s a trait line where every trait gives you some degree of value in PvE, regardless of weapon choice. Other trait lines have trait choices that depending on your weapon become the best of bad options.

CS needs survivability that Trickery cannot provide. CS can access regen and heal from Acro without requiring to go in stealth that SA requires. Trickery is an offensive trait line, thus having CS and Trick will leave you very vulnerable. Trick works well with DA because Mug provides a lot of heal. CS’ Invigorating precision, while it gives decent heal, it severely gimps your DPS — just look at what you’re sacrificing in the GM slot to get that heal — so CS has to look for heal from other trait line and Acro fits that bill — SA is counter productive due to stealth. With Acro you can spec for Assasin’s Reward or the improved Upper Hand for more access to heal and regen, plus a rapid regen of endurance.

CS can apply Fury on its own thanks to Unrelenting Strikes and No Quarter will simply keep it on, so you don’t need it from Trick. The use of Acro will also give the build better chance to trigger Driven Fortitude from DrD due to high Vigor uptime which makes a CS/Acro/DrD a well rounded build.

I’ve tried CS/Trick/DrD and always ended up dropping CS for DA or Trick for Acro.

Dare Devil is hands down the best trait line IMO. It has pretty much everything including both excellent offensive and defensive traits. It is also one of the very rare trait lines on any class that has a “wish i could take two” from every single tier. If I could double spec Dare Devil and take six of its traits, I would.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

MadRabbit.3179:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

IMO, if you pick CS, you need to go Acro and if you pick DA, you need to go Trickery — those pairs just works well together — which means that CS is not a staple.

Not challenging the opinion, but genuinely curious; what is the basis for that? Like, looking at Acro and CS, I don’t see the direct synergy.

Like the damage potential from CS comes largely from fury and Trickery, at least, gives you more access to fury with some of it’s trait choices, giving some degree of direct synergy that I just don’t see between CS and Acro.

The reason I consider CS to be staple is because it’s a trait line where every trait gives you some degree of value in PvE, regardless of weapon choice. Other trait lines have trait choices that depending on your weapon become the best of bad options.

CS needs survivability that Trickery cannot provide. CS can access regen and heal from Acro without requiring to go in stealth that SA requires. Trickery is an offensive trait line, thus having CS and Trick will leave you very vulnerable. Trick works well with DA because Mug provides a lot of heal. CS’ Invigorating precision, while it gives decent heal, it severely gimps your DPS — just look at what you’re sacrificing in the GM slot to get that heal — so CS has to look for heal from other trait line and Acro fits that bill — SA is counter productive due to stealth. With Acro you can spec for Assasin’s Reward or the improved Upper Hand for more access to heal and regen, plus a rapid regen of endurance.

CS can apply Fury on its own thanks to Unrelenting Strikes and No Quarter will simply keep it on, so you don’t need it from Trick. The use of Acro will also give the build better chance to trigger Driven Fortitude from DrD due to high Vigor uptime which makes a CS/Acro/DrD a well rounded build.

I’ve tried CS/Trick/DrD and always ended up dropping CS for DA or Trick for Acro.

Fair enough. Thanks for the advice. While I am set on CS and DrD, I keep going back and forth between Acro, Trick and DA

There is no DPS loss from not using NQ and instead using IP so long as you run Trickery instead of Acro. Lead Attacks directly compensates for NQ assuming maintaining fury isn’t an issue. Otherwise, the damage gains from Trickery are better than NQ’s ferocity, while offering competitive fury duration from ToTC.

Lead attacks works very well in an s/d build using DD/acro/trickery.Using upper hand and weapon swaps while traiting QP and it pretty easy to keep INI near the max of 15. It especially effective for an AA chain wherein you will get a 5+15 in extra damage for the full chain. Put in Havoc mastery and you are sitting at a burst at 5+15+7. You can than take bounding for 10 more which comes to some 1.42 damage before any crit.

Vigor/regen/ are than up pretty well all the time.

Upper hand was a considerable boost. The INI gain noticeable. It certainly not as high a damage boost as one gets out of DA with executioner but the swindlers and upper hand combo cancel out a good deal of the 10 percent bonus from exposed weakness.

That fat INI pool then allows more uses of the CND and flanking.