Guild Wars 2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV8Yl0MhSnYlTwwJw/EL+EmXTYJEF2CAvmz0cAMBGBB-TVCEABLq+DBHMgtUCawFAoJlf5s/Qb6eA4IE8wDUIAACwv9N+mv5bf7bf7oH9oH9oHtf7bf7bf7bSBExQL-w

S/D with SB
Pro’s:
- Permanent swiftness upkeep from runes, dodge roll and steal
- Condition removal through evades (dodges, sword/dagger 3, SB, Withdraw)
- Very good mobility can get around/outrun anything
- 3065 power max blood lust stacks with 231.1% critical damage (excluding +250 ferocity from no quarter trait). Alternatively could take invigorating precision for better sustain.
- Good fury upkeep so large amount of time you will have 70% critical chance
- Decent health pool of almost 16k
- Elite is optional basilisk for strong opener, dagger storm vs heavy range pressure
classes or even Impact strike whichever works
- Signets will increase power by granting might (trait can be switched out)
- Shadow step and infiltrator signet will allow for dagger 5 or s/d 3 combo as well as steal obviously
- Lots of evades

Cons:
- Very little stealth ability (though with all the reveal going to be available during HoT this may not be such an issue)
- Less sustain through regeneration than meta D/P
- Countered by D/P thief (lol)

Apart from that i can’t think of many more cons, let me know what you think i’m sure others have come up with this build, but i haven’t seen any posts ^^

More Cons:
- Load you up with conditions and watch you die. Since you rely on evade for condition removal, I won’t even attack you.
- Bleed, Chill and Cripple will be the easiest conditions to apply and you’d be wasting precious endurance and initiatives just to remove them.
- While dodging and evading, you’re not doing DPS.
- Confusion will cut your DPS.
- Chill will screw you over big time due to your stun breaks’ long CD.

EDIT:
Suggestions:
Bountiful Theft → Trickster (when you evade with Withdraw, you remove 2 conditions due to EA)
Shadowstep → Scorpion Wire (condition remover)

It’s not a bad build, just need to watch out for these Cons. Hopefully your 16k HP is enough to buy you time while you’re fully loaded with conditions. Have fun in BWE.

Yes, in wvw there will be sadness.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

More Cons:
- Load you up with conditions and watch you die. Since you rely on evade for condition removal, I won’t even attack you.
- Bleed, Chill and Cripple will be the easiest conditions to apply and you’d be wasting precious endurance and initiatives just to remove them.
- While dodging and evading, you’re not doing DPS.
- Confusion will cut your DPS.
- Chill will screw you over big time due to your stun breaks’ long CD.

EDIT:
Suggestions:
Bountiful Theft -> Trickster (when you evade with Withdraw, you remove 2 conditions due to EA)
Shadowstep -> Scorpion Wire (condition remover)

It’s not a bad build, just need to watch out for these Cons. Hopefully your 16k HP is enough to buy you time while you’re fully loaded with conditions. Have fun in BWE.

This build should not have condi issues. Three stun breaks, immob and inhib cleanse on heal and dodge, general condi cleanse on sword 2, shadow step, signet, and successful evade. How do you figure he will have condi problems?

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

More Cons:
- Load you up with conditions and watch you die. Since you rely on evade for condition removal, I won’t even attack you.
- Bleed, Chill and Cripple will be the easiest conditions to apply and you’d be wasting precious endurance and initiatives just to remove them.
- While dodging and evading, you’re not doing DPS.
- Confusion will cut your DPS.
- Chill will screw you over big time due to your stun breaks’ long CD.

EDIT:
Suggestions:
Bountiful Theft -> Trickster (when you evade with Withdraw, you remove 2 conditions due to EA)
Shadowstep -> Scorpion Wire (condition remover)

It’s not a bad build, just need to watch out for these Cons. Hopefully your 16k HP is enough to buy you time while you’re fully loaded with conditions. Have fun in BWE.

This build should not have condi issues. Three stun breaks, immob and inhib cleanse on heal and dodge, general condi cleanse on sword 2, shadow step, signet, and successful evade. How do you figure he will have condi problems?

I thought you’d figure that out by reading my post, but here it is again.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- Bleed, Chill and Cripple will be the easiest conditions to apply and you’d be wasting precious endurance and initiatives just to remove them.

Shadowstep is unreliable at 50s CD especially when Chilled constantly.

Every dodge removes chill bro, and so does withdraw.

the conventional and expected build for this release. This might even be meta unfortunately.

I would take impacting strike still.

Zodryn.4216:

Every dodge removes chill bro, and so does withdraw.

I read it as Condition Removal on Evade, not dodge, so you have to successfully evade the attack. If you’re using up your endurance to dodge for evade instead of a skill for evade then you’re using up a good portion of your endurance and you’re also not landing hits mid dodge. So, if you’re spending your time dodging, you’re not landing hits for damage and likely prolonging the fight to allow more time for bad news to happen. I still like that trait however, but you probably have to have used an Acro build for some time to get a non-deliberate feel for catching an Evade proc.

You remove 1 condi on evade, but remove every inhibiting condi on dodge whether it was an evade or not.

Zodryn.4216:

You remove 1 condi on evade, but remove every inhibiting condi on dodge whether it was an evade or not.

Yes but the problem with using a dodge to remove condition is that you can use that endurance to actually evading an attack instead of removing a condition. Utility Skills exists for that very reason. Thus, as I have posted, it is a con of the build that the OP needs to watch out for — and perhaps makes adjustments depending on the situation and probably using the one I suggested.

Conditions will be a problem in the upcoming meta, it is best to have as many options as possible. Dodging is not a solution in my opinion because if your opponent can force you to dodge, you’re not doing DPS.

Ok so say i was overloaded with conditions i have a 24 second recharge on signet of endurance that clears all and replenishes all endurance.

Ok say that wasn’t enough the enemy saved some condi burst applied more even if i went in for damage by dodging and using sword 3 i will be stripping a couple of condis while dealing damage – this is without using my heal.

Say the fight is going utter kittens i can always shadow step and cure 3 condis and use dodges for swiftness and get the out of there.

In my honest opinion conditions will not be an issue to this build with the D/P meta build at the moment we deal with conditions through stealth which removes 1 every 4 seconds ( we don’t deal damage – this also prolongs the fight ) then we burst in and out the same principle applied with sword 2 (or steal or signet or shadow step ) in burst with sword 3 couple of auto come out cleanse, rinse and repeat – after every successful dodge we get a 10% damage bonus on top of having 70% crit chance and abou 235% crit damage and 3k power, a solid health pool and good plentiful conditions cleanse and a means of mobility.

wolfgang.3471:

Ok so say i was overloaded with conditions i have a 24 second recharge on signet of endurance that clears all and replenishes all endurance.

Ok say that wasn’t enough the enemy saved some condi burst applied more even if i went in for damage by dodging and using sword 3 i will be stripping a couple of condis while dealing damage – this is without using my heal.

Say the fight is going utter kittens i can always shadow step and cure 3 condis and use dodges for swiftness and get the out of there.

In my honest opinion conditions will not be an issue to this build with the D/P meta build at the moment we deal with conditions through stealth which removes 1 every 4 seconds ( we don’t deal damage – this also prolongs the fight ) then we burst in and out the same principle applied with sword 2 (or steal or signet or shadow step ) in burst with sword 3 couple of auto come out cleanse, rinse and repeat – after every successful dodge we get a 10% damage bonus on top of having 70% crit chance and abou 235% crit damage and 3k power, a solid health pool and good plentiful conditions cleanse and a means of mobility.

I’m speaking from the perspective of a Reaper and I’m telling you, my Reaper build will give your Thief build so much problem. Unlike stealth, where it’s harder to stack conditions, your build is a static target.

That is all.

Mine:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAV8Yl0MhSnYlTwwJw/EL+EmXTYJEF2CAvmz0cAMBGBB-TVCEABLq+DBHMgtUCawFAoJlf5s/Qb6eA4IE8wDUIAACwv9N+mv5bf7bf7oH9oH9oHtf7bf7bf7bSBExQL-w

Pros: High damage, high survival

Cons : Not thief.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

wolfgang.3471:

Ok so say i was overloaded with conditions i have a 24 second recharge on signet of endurance that clears all and replenishes all endurance.

Ok say that wasn’t enough the enemy saved some condi burst applied more even if i went in for damage by dodging and using sword 3 i will be stripping a couple of condis while dealing damage – this is without using my heal.

Say the fight is going utter kittens i can always shadow step and cure 3 condis and use dodges for swiftness and get the out of there.

In my honest opinion conditions will not be an issue to this build with the D/P meta build at the moment we deal with conditions through stealth which removes 1 every 4 seconds ( we don’t deal damage – this also prolongs the fight ) then we burst in and out the same principle applied with sword 2 (or steal or signet or shadow step ) in burst with sword 3 couple of auto come out cleanse, rinse and repeat – after every successful dodge we get a 10% damage bonus on top of having 70% crit chance and abou 235% crit damage and 3k power, a solid health pool and good plentiful conditions cleanse and a means of mobility.

I’m speaking from the perspective of a Reaper and I’m telling you, my Reaper build will give your Thief build so much problem. Unlike stealth, where it’s harder to stack conditions, your build is a static target.

That is all.

Yes vs necromancer this build will struggle, but in all honesty the amount of reveal from other classes means using SA trait line and focusing defense around stealth may be futile, if necromancer and maybe D/P thief are the counters to this i prefer that to playing a stealth orientated build and getting revealed by revenants, engineers, rangers.. Everything has a counter against it, just a matter of which has the least lol.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

wolfgang.3471:

Ok so say i was overloaded with conditions i have a 24 second recharge on signet of endurance that clears all and replenishes all endurance.

Ok say that wasn’t enough the enemy saved some condi burst applied more even if i went in for damage by dodging and using sword 3 i will be stripping a couple of condis while dealing damage – this is without using my heal.

Say the fight is going utter kittens i can always shadow step and cure 3 condis and use dodges for swiftness and get the out of there.

In my honest opinion conditions will not be an issue to this build with the D/P meta build at the moment we deal with conditions through stealth which removes 1 every 4 seconds ( we don’t deal damage – this also prolongs the fight ) then we burst in and out the same principle applied with sword 2 (or steal or signet or shadow step ) in burst with sword 3 couple of auto come out cleanse, rinse and repeat – after every successful dodge we get a 10% damage bonus on top of having 70% crit chance and abou 235% crit damage and 3k power, a solid health pool and good plentiful conditions cleanse and a means of mobility.

I’m speaking from the perspective of a Reaper and I’m telling you, my Reaper build will give your Thief build so much problem. Unlike stealth, where it’s harder to stack conditions, your build is a static target.

That is all.

So basically you’re saying everyone is screwed by Reaper, because if it gives a daredevil serious trouble even with good condi removal and practical immunity to inhibiting conditions, where does that leave everyone else? He’ll be evading constantly (removing 1 condi each time) AND dealing damage with sword 3. If you do manage to land some nasty conditions, he has plenty of options including dodging. You are acting like dodging is a bad thing. Sure, dodging isn’t dealing damage, but we can just mix occasional dodges with weapon evades. Also, chill doesn’t affect our weapon skills, so if we don’t want to cleanse it with a dodge, we can keep attacking with little consequence.

wolfgang.3471:

Yes vs necromancer this build will struggle, but in all honesty the amount of reveal from other classes means using SA trait line and focusing defense around stealth may be futile, if necromancer and maybe D/P thief are the counters to this i prefer that to playing a stealth orientated build and getting revealed by revenants, engineers, rangers.. Everything has a counter against it, just a matter of which has the least lol.

Yeah, stealthless is the only way that’s why the build has cons. Having cons doesn’t necessarily means it’s a bad build, it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

Zodryn.4216:

So basically you’re saying everyone is screwed by Reaper, because if it gives a daredevil serious trouble even with good condi removal and practical immunity to inhibiting conditions, where does that leave everyone else?

Reaper will screw everyone, yes, that’s why you need other ways to deal with the situation.

He’ll be evading constantly (removing 1 condi each time) AND dealing damage with sword 3. If you do manage to land some nasty conditions, he has plenty of options including dodging. You are acting like dodging is a bad thing.

It is. The more you dodge, the less damage you make….it’s an undeniable fact.

Sure, dodging isn’t dealing damage, but we can just mix occasional dodges with weapon evades.

Lotus Training and Bounding is your only choice if you want to maintain DPS while dodging, but of course, you’ll lose the chill removal on dodge.

Also, chill doesn’t affect our weapon skills, so if we don’t want to cleanse it with a dodge, we can keep attacking with little consequence.

Not if you can’t get in melee range. Are you then going for a shoot-out against other professions who out-ranged you by 300 range?

You have no stealth, thus any profession can keep you in a distance. And if you manage to get closer, all you will be doing is dodging and evading…until you die or run away (if you can).

BWE 3 is Holloween for Thieves.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

… it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

This adds nothing really to the conversation but I entirely blocked out the GM Dodge traits out of my mind even though I had made my whole build around Dash, it’s like forgetting a common word all of the sudden. I do get the general idea of the build, I’ve stuck to S/D with Acro pretty much all the way through and even though I want to make my ongoing build work, I have to say that scrambling to even hit a threshold of damage between dodges and evades is tiring, mostly due to the dodges and evades you have to use unexpectedly and that’s compounded if your using up your endurance to race out of an AOE surge putting you way out of range that you’ll have to make up, likely with more dodges.

I like the build though, just mentioning how uneven each fight can be from another from your own perspective at least

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

… it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

Yeah, you gonna miss all your dodges if you’re either sleepy or under the influence…speaking from experience.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

… it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

Yeah, you gonna miss all your dodges if you’re either sleepy or under the influence…speaking from experience.

Oh I know.

It’s a whole new kind of lag…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

wolfgang.3471:

Yes vs necromancer this build will struggle, but in all honesty the amount of reveal from other classes means using SA trait line and focusing defense around stealth may be futile, if necromancer and maybe D/P thief are the counters to this i prefer that to playing a stealth orientated build and getting revealed by revenants, engineers, rangers.. Everything has a counter against it, just a matter of which has the least lol.

Yeah, stealthless is the only way that’s why the build has cons. Having cons doesn’t necessarily means it’s a bad build, it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

Zodryn.4216:

So basically you’re saying everyone is screwed by Reaper, because if it gives a daredevil serious trouble even with good condi removal and practical immunity to inhibiting conditions, where does that leave everyone else?

Reaper will screw everyone, yes, that’s why you need other ways to deal with the situation.

He’ll be evading constantly (removing 1 condi each time) AND dealing damage with sword 3. If you do manage to land some nasty conditions, he has plenty of options including dodging. You are acting like dodging is a bad thing.

It is. The more you dodge, the less damage you make….it’s an undeniable fact.

Sure, dodging isn’t dealing damage, but we can just mix occasional dodges with weapon evades.

Lotus Training and Bounding is your only choice if you want to maintain DPS while dodging, but of course, you’ll lose the chill removal on dodge.

Also, chill doesn’t affect our weapon skills, so if we don’t want to cleanse it with a dodge, we can keep attacking with little consequence.

Not if you can’t get in melee range. Are you then going for a shoot-out against other professions who out-ranged you by 300 range?

You have no stealth, thus any profession can keep you in a distance. And if you manage to get closer, all you will be doing is dodging and evading…until you die or run away (if you can).

BWE 3 is Holloween for Thieves.

Sword 3 is a dodge and attack, so yes you can deal damage while removing conditions with evades, even without lotus or bound. Sword 2 is a spammable gap closer, plus we have steal, and this build runs inf signet. That’s 2700 range if you want to go overboard. Chill will not keep me from getting close. Yes dash itself does no damage, but neither does a normal dodge. Are you never going to dodge on your reaper because it doesn’t do damage? Of course not. You’ll use it as needed for damage mitigation. You’re not going to lose because you dodge your opponents attack. Nobody ever said the build consists of dashing all of the time.

Honestly I’m going to side with the person saying that there’s no harm in dodging. I played Reaper pretty extensively in the last beta weekend, and many of the attacks are slow and ponderous. A thief that’s paying attention is going to be able to negate most of the damage from a reaper through good dodges, especially as a DD. Combined with the constant Condi removal from evades and the dodge trait, I honestly think you’d have a LOT of trouble keeping Chill on someone who wasn’t asleep at the keyboard.

Zodryn.4216:

Sword 3 is a dodge and attack, so yes you can deal damage while removing conditions with evades, even without lotus or bound.

Um, no. Sword 3 will not trigger Unhindered Combatant’s condition removal since it is not a Dodge. You’ll know when you used a dodge is when you dashed instead. Only then the condition removal from UC will trigger.

Keep in mind that “evade” means that you are evading an attack, but like I said in my first post, I can deny you that removal by not attacking you instead I’ll just load you up with conditions.

Sword 2 is a spammable gap closer, plus we have steal, and this build runs inf signet. That’s 2700 range if you want to go overboard. Chill will not keep me from getting close.

Did you even bother reading what I’ve posted?

So ok, you got close, then all you do is dodge because as soon as I hit, you get a condition.

Yes dash itself does no damage, but neither does a normal dodge. Are you never going to dodge on your reaper because it doesn’t do damage?

The point is, Thief relies on stealth and dodge to survive while other professions do not. And while you’re trying to survive, you deal no damage.

Of course not. You’ll use it as needed for damage mitigation. You’re not going to lose because you dodge your opponents attack. Nobody ever said the build consists of dashing all of the time.

If you want to remove the conditions then you have to. I can apply the conditions faster than you can remove them and you’re only real option is to run away.

Starlightmagus.8654:

Honestly I’m going to side with the person saying that there’s no harm in dodging. I played Reaper pretty extensively in the last beta weekend, and many of the attacks are slow and ponderous. A thief that’s paying attention is going to be able to negate most of the damage from a reaper through good dodges, especially as a DD. Combined with the constant Condi removal from evades and the dodge trait, I honestly think you’d have a LOT of trouble keeping Chill on someone who wasn’t asleep at the keyboard.

I doubt that. You probably just spam your skills or have a bad build.

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

… it’s just that you have to play harder and sober.

Yeah, you gonna miss all your dodges if you’re either sleepy or under the influence…speaking from experience.

Oh I know.

It’s a whole new kind of lag…

Oh man..why :/?

On dealing with conditions stealth is more reliable because you can directly use it or at faster reflexes without throwing your entire sustain away. The on evade requirement will screw the cleansing even if partial cleansing is on dodge. They nerfed SE to make it look more attractive it really isn’t some call it OP due to 1 sec ICD but nope. This is a similar scenario of having torment/confusion on you your foe has the advantage.

Only GS is slow I doubt it will leave PvE so thinking reaper is piece of cake to dodge is false.

If traited you can get a whole lot of condition removal off withdraw at an under 15 second ICD. I am going to give this a try in beta and see how readily I can keep conditions off using the DD evade and traiting to remove a guaranteed 5 conditions and possible 6 with withdraw

Now if withdraw slated along RFI one does not have to rely just on a dodge to clear chill.

wolfgang.3471:

Ok so say i was overloaded with conditions i have a 24 second recharge on signet of endurance that clears all and replenishes all endurance.

Ok say that wasn’t enough the enemy saved some condi burst applied more even if i went in for damage by dodging and using sword 3 i will be stripping a couple of condis while dealing damage – this is without using my heal.

Say the fight is going utter kittens i can always shadow step and cure 3 condis and use dodges for swiftness and get the out of there.

In my honest opinion conditions will not be an issue to this build with the D/P meta build at the moment we deal with conditions through stealth which removes 1 every 4 seconds ( we don’t deal damage – this also prolongs the fight ) then we burst in and out the same principle applied with sword 2 (or steal or signet or shadow step ) in burst with sword 3 couple of auto come out cleanse, rinse and repeat – after every successful dodge we get a 10% damage bonus on top of having 70% crit chance and abou 235% crit damage and 3k power, a solid health pool and good plentiful conditions cleanse and a means of mobility.

I am not sure what you refer to regarding clear all conditions with signet of endurance . A thief has no such signet and if you refer to agility it only clears one condition.

babazhook.6805:

If traited you can get a whole lot of condition removal off withdraw at an under 15 second ICD. I am going to give this a try in beta and see how readily I can keep conditions off using the DD evade and traiting to remove a guaranteed 5 conditions and possible 6 with withdraw

Now if withdraw slated along RFI one does not have to rely just on a dodge to clear chill.

That’s basically what I had last beta with Flanking Strikes + Trickster, staff, and Shadowstep with Trickery and Deadly Arts. It basically translated into a DA/Acro/Trickery build with Pain Response, Hard to Catch, and Don’t stop which, if you’re “sober”, you’re probably not going to go down unless focused hard, even in WvW.

kash.9213:

babazhook.6805:

If traited you can get a whole lot of condition removal off withdraw at an under 15 second ICD. I am going to give this a try in beta and see how readily I can keep conditions off using the DD evade and traiting to remove a guaranteed 5 conditions and possible 6 with withdraw

Now if withdraw slated along RFI one does not have to rely just on a dodge to clear chill.

That’s basically what I had last beta with Flanking Strikes + Trickster, staff, and Shadowstep with Trickery and Deadly Arts. It basically translated into a DA/Acro/Trickery build with Pain Response, Hard to Catch, and Don’t stop which, if you’re “sober”, you’re probably not going to go down unless focused hard, even in WvW.

Understood but I am going to try with no shadowstep using bandits defense as the stunbreak over shadowstep. I picked up a couple hits of that food that removes a condition on heal.

Trait RFI and withdraw along with trickery and acro as you outlined and you have a lot of cleanses.

Going from the OP’s build:

#1: I’m not sure Evasive Empowerment is worth it. If the skill only applies to regular dodges, then the 2 second damage boost won’t be good at all. Unless there is heavier modifications to the build, I’d take weakening strikes for 50% weakness uptime against a single target. That weakness is good against the initial counter-burst and reduces their dodges (which is what they’ll do after being hit with a pre-cast basilisk venom).

#2: Unless it is experimentally shown otherwise, I’d try Bounding Dodger first. With evasive empowerment, infiltraitor’s strike, shadowstep, signet of agility, and roll for initiative all together I’m not sure another source for removing even more immobilizing conditions will be worth it. You can always go for more offensive power, though.

#3: Another option for more offensive power would be to take unhindered combatant, but replace shadowstep with bandits defense. BD is a stunbreak + block on a 15 second cooldown, but the most important feature is that if it blocks in melee range it counterattacks with a 2 second knockdown. This is surprisingly good, since after your initial volley they’ll counter-stun and burst, but BD completely ruins that and sets them up for a second volley. You’d have to sacrifice some mobility for it, though.

Either way, strongly consider running Bandits Defense, as it is highly versatile and one of the best stun breaks in the game. If not over shadowstep, over infiltraitor’s signet. If you take it over the signet, I’d still suggest Bounding Dodger for more offense. Bounding dodger might be good because after the initial burst, it is highly likely they will evade before counter attacking, to which you can simply evade right back on top of them.

Those are my notes on the OP’s build. As for my build… I’m going to test the new staff in PVE.

Staff + P/P
DA/CS/DD
Full zerker and scholar gear
Signet of Malice, Assassins Signet, Signet of Agility, Filler utility (either Fists of Fury or Smoke Screen, unless something else is needed), Dagger Storm.

I haven’t clocked down the animation time, but from the numerical side Weakening Charge looks quite powerful. Now that it tracks and hits 5 targets, the total damage of this skill might be insane. AoE perma weakness + 10% so long as I have the sense to use Bounding Dodger appropriately. The current equivalent would be if we could heartseeker spam an enemy while getting maximum damage at at all health ranges, except do more damage and in an AoE while stacking massive amounts of weakness.

Currently I’m clocking Fists of Fury as higher damage than haste. Without the trickery line to bolster it, FoF will replace haste as the highest damaging utility. On the flip side, if blinds are needed, Smoke Screen combos well with the whirl finishing nature of the skill. I haven’t decided on the off-hand yet, but I am thinking P/P. I can use black powder then weapon swap, and let the whirl finishers take care of blind spam.

Once I can confirm its usage in PVE, then I’ll start theorycrafting PVP specs. I’m thinking DA/Trickery/DD with Basilisk Venom + Devourer Venom + Infiltraitor’s Signet + other utilities (I’m thinking Hide in Shadows and FoF, but Bandits Defense and Withdraw are both good options). The goal is to aggressively pursue and disable my opponent while hammering away with weakening charge. After they’ve blown their stun break (basi), condition cleanse (Devourer), counter-stun (Infil), and dodges (Mug or my respective dodge skills), they won’t have much to deal with the remaining Serpent’s Touch, Panic Strike, and Fists of Fury.

The remaining utilities are quite in the air. Hide in shadows gives access to hook strike and cleanses some damaging condis, and FoF is for more damage. Bandits defense just plain rocks so it is an option, and for more open specs Withdraw has better tactical use. I haven’t PVP’ed in awhile so all of these are up in the air.

I really wish that escapists absolution was baseline, though. Having those condi cleanses while also having access to Impacting Disruption or Staff Mastery would open up worlds of pain.

babazhook.6805:

If traited you can get a whole lot of condition removal off withdraw at an under 15 second ICD. I am going to give this a try in beta and see how readily I can keep conditions off using the DD evade and traiting to remove a guaranteed 5 conditions and possible 6 with withdraw

Now if withdraw slated along RFI one does not have to rely just on a dodge to clear chill.

how 6 conditions from withdraw?
3 from the utilities
1 from evade
1 from trickster

what is the 6th?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Sword 3 is a dodge and attack, so yes you can deal damage while removing conditions with evades, even without lotus or bound.

Um, no. Sword 3 will not trigger Unhindered Combatant’s condition removal since it is not a Dodge. You’ll know when you used a dodge is when you dashed instead. Only then the condition removal from UC will trigger.

Keep in mind that “evade” means that you are evading an attack, but like I said in my first post, I can deny you that removal by not attacking you instead I’ll just load you up with conditions.

Sword 2 is a spammable gap closer, plus we have steal, and this build runs inf signet. That’s 2700 range if you want to go overboard. Chill will not keep me from getting close.

Did you even bother reading what I’ve posted?

So ok, you got close, then all you do is dodge because as soon as I hit, you get a condition.

Yes dash itself does no damage, but neither does a normal dodge. Are you never going to dodge on your reaper because it doesn’t do damage?

The point is, Thief relies on stealth and dodge to survive while other professions do not. And while you’re trying to survive, you deal no damage.

Of course not. You’ll use it as needed for damage mitigation. You’re not going to lose because you dodge your opponents attack. Nobody ever said the build consists of dashing all of the time.

If you want to remove the conditions then you have to. I can apply the conditions faster than you can remove them and you’re only real option is to run away.

Ok, I see where our disconnect is. You are under the impression you can somehow load someone up with conditions without ever hitting them. Please tell me what skills you’re using. Weapon skills, shouts, wells, corruptions etc. can all be evaded by either dodges, weapon evades, or utility evades. Also, other evades (read: sword 3) are just as effective at removing damaging condis as dash will be (provided you’re using a skill that’s evadable, which you must be to do any damage, condi or otherwise). Dash just has the benefit of also removing any inhibiting condi.

messiah.1908:

babazhook.6805:

If traited you can get a whole lot of condition removal off withdraw at an under 15 second ICD. I am going to give this a try in beta and see how readily I can keep conditions off using the DD evade and traiting to remove a guaranteed 5 conditions and possible 6 with withdraw

Now if withdraw slated along RFI one does not have to rely just on a dodge to clear chill.

how 6 conditions from withdraw?
3 from the utilities
1 from evade
1 from trickster

what is the 6th?

I am sorry as I should have clarified.

I am speaking of WvW in particular. In last beta tests I realized that either in a condition build or a power build (given I was using d/d condition) I had no need of either power food or condition duration food. This go around I want to see if I can get aong without any of the legitimate condition clears on the bar (shadowstep) and no Shadows embrace.

The sixth I am talking about is the food that removes a condition on heal. I can not recall the name of it but it a 100 percent chance every 14 and a bit seconds.

Through regular evades and absolution and perhaps with one Purity sigil on a weapon this might be enough to keep all conditions off.

Now if one has s/d on top of that with its own condition removal there a whole lot of removal there. The plan is to trait withdraw and RFI along with Bandits defense which also gives multiple Immob breaks, chill cripple clears and stunbreaks without using a DD dodge.

That build will have problems with condis…

Even though evade will remove chill/etc on evade it will only remove 1 damaging condi on evade assuming someone attacks u…

3 evades for 3 condis that matter? Shadow embrace still better…

Just saying… DD will still suck and still wondering why acro is in the game…

I will try this one.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZUQNAoaWn8lCdPhFmCmOBkmiFkiyLHuhegrBCgFYO+v/+H-TVCBABVcCA2Tfwlq/cmSQsU+BwDAoo9HY4IAsxhAIAACwNbz6cnBO6RP6RP6Rbn7cn7cn7sQACmAA-w

babazhook.6805:

Understood but I am going to try with no shadowstep using bandits defense as the stunbreak over shadowstep. I picked up a couple hits of that food that removes a condition on heal.

I can’t drop Shadowstep yet but I am dropping Shadow Refuge for Bandits Defense, that utility is simply fun to use regardless of it’s use, which is great anyway. Just to finish out my Kungfu Joe build I’m also taking Fist Flurry, I know it’s stupid but I’m going to push it forward until I hit a wall and see what I can keep.

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zodryn.4216:

Sword 3 is a dodge and attack, so yes you can deal damage while removing conditions with evades, even without lotus or bound.

Um, no. Sword 3 will not trigger Unhindered Combatant’s condition removal since it is not a Dodge. You’ll know when you used a dodge is when you dashed instead. Only then the condition removal from UC will trigger.

Keep in mind that “evade” means that you are evading an attack, but like I said in my first post, I can deny you that removal by not attacking you instead I’ll just load you up with conditions.

Sword 2 is a spammable gap closer, plus we have steal, and this build runs inf signet. That’s 2700 range if you want to go overboard. Chill will not keep me from getting close.

Did you even bother reading what I’ve posted?

So ok, you got close, then all you do is dodge because as soon as I hit, you get a condition.

Yes dash itself does no damage, but neither does a normal dodge. Are you never going to dodge on your reaper because it doesn’t do damage?

The point is, Thief relies on stealth and dodge to survive while other professions do not. And while you’re trying to survive, you deal no damage.

Of course not. You’ll use it as needed for damage mitigation. You’re not going to lose because you dodge your opponents attack. Nobody ever said the build consists of dashing all of the time.

If you want to remove the conditions then you have to. I can apply the conditions faster than you can remove them and you’re only real option is to run away.

Ok, I see where our disconnect is. You are under the impression you can somehow load someone up with conditions without ever hitting them. Please tell me what skills you’re using. Weapon skills, shouts, wells, corruptions etc. can all be evaded by either dodges, weapon evades, or utility evades. Also, other evades (read: sword 3) are just as effective at removing damaging condis as dash will be (provided you’re using a skill that’s evadable, which you must be to do any damage, condi or otherwise). Dash just has the benefit of also removing any inhibiting condi.

Not exactly what I’m talking about. Let me put it this way; I attack you. You dodged it…i failed to apply condition, but you’re down with one dodge, then I attack you again then the same thing happen you dodged it. Once your dodges are all gone, you start evading. Once your Initiatives are all gone, you’re now susceptible to conditions. From this point on, you’ll be dodging not to mitigate my attacks but to remove conditions. It just gets worse over time at this point because it only takes one Chill to screw your build over.

Shadow’s Embrace is still the best condition remover because not only it removes conditions, it also prevents your opponent from loading up more conditions — not to mention you get a tactical positioning advantage. You don’t get this from Dodge/Evades.

Ok, there’s the problem. Nobody is going to open by blowing all of their endurance. That would deal no damage and leave me open to attack. I’ll open from 1800 range with 2 and steal. After the steal daze wears off, I’ll use 3 to dodge your first attack and land my third hit (got off an auto while you were dazed). I’ll eat your second attack to land larcenous strike and then do another flanking strike, removing 1 condi. If you applied more, I’ll retreat with 2 removing another condi and then reengage with 2 or a dash or signet depending on my needs followed by another 3 chain which will remove another condi.

If I get a bit low, withdraw. If I run out of endurance, I can remove a condi and refill endurance with a signet. I’m not saying I would never have conditions, but evades both prevent them being applied in the first place and remove ones that get through, and this build has a lot of evade access.

Naturally, you will smash a thief who mashes dodge until they’re out of endurance then mashes 3 until out of initiative. Good players time their skills and dodges so that they are effective though. That is true of any class, actually.

Zodryn.4216:

Ok, there’s the problem. Nobody is going to open by blowing all of their endurance. That would deal no damage and leave me open to attack. I’ll open from 1800 range with 2 and steal. After the steal daze wears off, I’ll use 3 to dodge your first attack and land my third hit (got off an auto while you were dazed). I’ll eat your second attack to land larcenous strike and then do another flanking strike, removing 1 condi. If you applied more, I’ll retreat with 2 removing another condi and then reengage with 2 or a dash or signet depending on my needs followed by another 3 chain which will remove another condi.

Don’t you see how many times you have to tumble around and how much damage you’ve actually made?

If I get a bit low, withdraw. If I run out of endurance, I can remove a condi and refill endurance with a signet. I’m not saying I would never have conditions, but evades both prevent them being applied in the first place and remove ones that get through, and this build has a lot of evade access.

You’re not taking into the account the type of conditions you’re receiving. In my Reaper build, I can apply Blind, Bleed, Chill, Cripple, Fear, Burning without effort.

Naturally, you will smash a thief who mashes dodge until they’re out of endurance then mashes 3 until out of initiative. Good players time their skills and dodges so that they are effective though. That is true of any class, actually.

Isn’t that exactly what I’ve posted so far? Due to the cons of the OP’s build, he needs to play harder than he should and stay sober?

Is this a DD build or a Thief build?

I just came back because of the xpack, but I thought you had to have a staff to be a Daredevil.

If I am misunderstanding something could you please explain.

Thanks.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t you see how many times you have to tumble around and how much damage you’ve actually made?

Have you ever played an S/D thief before acro was gutted? That’s the playstyle. Always evading. And it does enough damage to have been meta right up there with D/P back in the day.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You’re not taking into the account the type of conditions you’re receiving. In my Reaper build, I can apply Blind, Bleed, Chill, Cripple, Fear, Burning without effort.

So I only need to worry about bleed and burn then. That makes it quite easy. I can basically ignore the others. Fear might make me blow a stun break though.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Isn’t that exactly what I’ve posted so far? Due to the cons of the OP’s build, he needs to play harder than he should and stay sober?

No, he just needs to not play like an idiot. Have you ever opened a fight by blowing all of your evades and other methods of survival? That’s what you’re expecting, and any thief worth his salt doesn’t play that way.

aydos.8259:

Is this a DD build or a Thief build?

I just came back because of the xpack, but I thought you had to have a staff to be a Daredevil.

If I am misunderstanding something could you please explain.

Thanks.

You can use staff, but you can also use any normal thief weapon. It would suck very badly if you could only use a single weapon when you take an elite spec.

Zodryn.4216:

aydos.8259:

Is this a DD build or a Thief build?

I just came back because of the xpack, but I thought you had to have a staff to be a Daredevil.

If I am misunderstanding something could you please explain.

Thanks.

You can use staff, but you can also use any normal thief weapon. It would suck very badly if you could only use a single weapon when you take an elite spec.

Gotcha. I just thought you really only got skills for the new weapon.

I guess b/c I mainly came back to play Druid and as a healer and there is literally no way to play a Druid healer without the staff lol.

I did not really look at the other classes this one just caught my attention for an alt as well.

Just seems like if you picked Daredevil and did not take the staff you would barely get anything over a normal thief to me.

Zodryn.4216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t you see how many times you have to tumble around and how much damage you’ve actually made?

Have you ever played an S/D thief before acro was gutted? That’s the playstyle. Always evading. And it does enough damage to have been meta right up there with D/P back in the day.

The difference is that back then, targets aren’t too tanky and condition damage was a joke. Jut compare the DPS of burning damage then and now.

With this kind of conditions, you are forced to remove them right away which would mean that you either use your utility or wait for an attack to evade.

You’ll be facing a lot of dilemma during a fight to either use dodge to remove condition or save it for evading a big attack — a situation that is never present to other professions. And if you make a mistake, you’re toast.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You’re not taking into the account the type of conditions you’re receiving. In my Reaper build, I can apply Blind, Bleed, Chill, Cripple, Fear, Burning without effort.

So I only need to worry about bleed and burn then. That makes it quite easy. I can basically ignore the others. Fear might make me blow a stun break though.

Easily said than done. If you worry about bleed and burn, you’ll have to evade some attacks — and EA has a 1s ICD, which means you have to eat the DPS from conditions for 1s where burning deals 350+ DPS and bleeding deals 100+ DPS per stack. If you got 3 stacks of burning, that’s over 1k DPS — and burning only last for 1-2s, which means you won’t even get a chance to mitigate the damage because as soon as you get off CD, the damage is done.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Isn’t that exactly what I’ve posted so far? Due to the cons of the OP’s build, he needs to play harder than he should and stay sober?

No, he just needs to not play like an idiot. Have you ever opened a fight by blowing all of your evades and other methods of survival? That’s what you’re expecting, and any thief worth his salt doesn’t play that way.

That’s not what I’m saying. If you start a fight, more than likely you’ll have conditions already on you before you can even get close which forces you to use your evade/dodge to remove conditions.

It’s very different if you don’t rely on EA to remove conditions.