Pulmonary Impact: “Class Debuff” changes. When applying, the next target attack reduce 15% damage and damage the target.

Auto attack (1): The chain gives 3 vulnerability stacks.
Punishing Strikes: If all 4 strikes hits the “target” grants access to “Pulmonary Impact”

Debilitating Arc (3): Convert to Dual Skill for synergy (Staff + Physical). 1 second block, if block dodge success (original skill), if nothing happens, recovery 10 resistance and 1 initiative point.

Dust Strike (4): Smoke field sounds good.

Fist Flurry: If all attacks hit, your next attack stun and mark your target with a “Pulmonary Impact”. Removes “Palm Strike”.

Bandit’s Defense: 3 seconds block.

Impact Strike chain Elite: If all attacks hit, mark your target with a “Pulmonary Impact”

Auto attack, Fist Flurry, and Impact Strike: They are likely not to be properly executed.
Seem empty, considering that these skills require exposure to a daredevil, is rewarded with “Pulmonary Impact”.

side note, great work on those staff animations!

Nike.2631:

PopeUrban.2578:

Nike.2631:

…along with whipping a staff around wukong-style I really want to be yelling “your martial-arts are pig-dung!” at the screen…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DAREDEVIL

(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) +10% weakness duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict weakness for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) 7% of Condition Damage is converted to Toughness.

I dunno if condition damage would be good for a daredevil rune. I mean, the “official” daredevil weapon is staff, right? Wouldn’t +power be more fitting?

That said I really would want the set as you have it with condition damage, just dunno if calling it daredevil runes would seem right.

No, that’s good feedback. I’m probably biased by my preference for using Thief as the platform for condi-bunkers. With staff being more of a power weapon you’re probably on the right track.

The whole purpose of the spread of skills is to create more runes around them. Whatever it is it should (and I project will) be “on physical skill use do x.” Creating new runes around numbers boosting is not compelling. All the new runes should affect skill types and therefore have multi-class implications.

The future runes of the Dare Devil should have implications for Warrior as well, making Warrior Physical Skills more viable (or potentially being ignored as it might not fit the warrior idiom lol).

What we absolutely do not need is more “runes of the scholar” or runes which number boost to fit a “type of gameplay.” New types will emerge around runes which affect skills naturally. We already have runes of the scholar after all, and plenty of runes which affect numbers.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

AoE damage exists on shortbow. Sword permits to cure conditions. With shortbows we can also port away… we don’t really lack tools to cure immobility.

Not nearly to the degree that staff has it. Heck, the shortbow does less AoE damage than the sword.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

AoE damage exists on shortbow. Sword permits to cure conditions. With shortbows we can also port away… we don’t really lack tools to cure immobility.

Not nearly to the degree that staff has it. Heck, the shortbow does less AoE damage than the sword.

The point is, AoE already exists and won’t by itself give the staff a unique identity.

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

You have really high hopes of them buffing the base thief class, don’t you? Bountiful theft isn’t even close to being the problem with trickery or thief.

Silverbolt.2301:

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

You have really high hopes of them buffing the base thief class, don’t you? Bountiful theft isn’t even close to being the problem with trickery or thief.

No, but trickery being almost mandatory is. Preparedness needs to be rolled into baseline, while BT could then be put in that minor slot, but have it not share boons. Then there could be a major trait that whenever you steal a boon, you share it with your nearby allies, so S/D (Larcenous Strike) would be able to fulfill more of a teamfight role if traited for it. The full duration and stacks thing would be a nice QoL change though.

Maugetarr.6823:

Silverbolt.2301:

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

You have really high hopes of them buffing the base thief class, don’t you? Bountiful theft isn’t even close to being the problem with trickery or thief.

No, but trickery being almost mandatory is. Preparedness needs to be rolled into baseline, while BT could then be put in that minor slot, but have it not share boons. Then there could be a major trait that whenever you steal a boon, you share it with your nearby allies, so S/D (Larcenous Strike) would be able to fulfill more of a teamfight role if traited for it. The full duration and stacks thing would be a nice QoL change though.

I don’t know about baseline, but I agree Trickery is almost mandatory now a days with the initiative cost of most weapon abilities.

I don’t think Thief should have more access to boons, but rather more access to REMOVE the boon meta from Spvp. Boon’s, especially defensive boons, are a passive skill floor decrease without any real counter in the game other than convsersion necros.

Imo, there should be more available negative consequences to the boon meta and I think Thief can fulfill it’s manifest destiny and finally embrace what it is.

Bllade.1029:

Maugetarr.6823:

Silverbolt.2301:

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

You have really high hopes of them buffing the base thief class, don’t you? Bountiful theft isn’t even close to being the problem with trickery or thief.

No, but trickery being almost mandatory is. Preparedness needs to be rolled into baseline, while BT could then be put in that minor slot, but have it not share boons. Then there could be a major trait that whenever you steal a boon, you share it with your nearby allies, so S/D (Larcenous Strike) would be able to fulfill more of a teamfight role if traited for it. The full duration and stacks thing would be a nice QoL change though.

I don’t know about baseline, but I agree Trickery is almost mandatory now a days with the initiative cost of most weapon abilities.

I don’t think Thief should have more access to boons, but rather more access to REMOVE the boon meta from Spvp. Boon’s, especially defensive boons, are a passive skill floor decrease without any real counter in the game other than convsersion necros.

Imo, there should be more available negative consequences to the boon meta and I think Thief can fulfill it’s manifest destiny and finally embrace what it is.

Just preparedness, not trickery as a whole. Well, I’d also like to see the base CD of Steal at 25 seconds, but remove the CD reduction from Sleight of Hand. Having 3 more initiative is huge for thief, and steal is mediocre unless heavily traited. These two changes would help make trickery a little less manditory imo.

Adding more boon hate to thief could definitely help as well. I think if they moved Feline Grace into Enforcer Training, they could retheme Acrobatics into something that involves improving shadowsteps and debuffing enemies. Daredevil is just way more cohesive as an acrobatic fighter, so we might as well pull the plug on acro and give it it’s own identity.

“Bounding Dodger” should softlock on your target and try to jump right on top of it, instead of jumping over it when standing right in front of the target

Smokin Dice.9103:

“Bounding Dodger” should softlock on your target and try to jump right on top of it, instead of jumping over it when standing right in front of the target

sooo… what about when you NEED to dodge AWAY from you target?!

I still don’t see why anyone would invite a daredevil in a raid party? What is so special about daredevil? I still don’t see the motivation. What makes daredevil so special? Is it stealth? High dps? Please don’t tell me dodge!!!

Volrath.1473:

Smokin Dice.9103:

“Bounding Dodger” should softlock on your target and try to jump right on top of it, instead of jumping over it when standing right in front of the target

sooo… what about when you NEED to dodge AWAY from you target?!

I think the issue here is when trying to damage the enemy with your dodge. Bounding dodger damages the enemy when you land, and if you are dodging away then the damage is not hitting anything.

Maybe we need to make the damage when you leave the ground at the beginning of the dodge instead of at the end of the dodge.

I would really like to see the damage place at the start of the ability as this would definitely make it more useful.

Volrath.1473:

Smokin Dice.9103:

“Bounding Dodger” should softlock on your target and try to jump right on top of it, instead of jumping over it when standing right in front of the target

sooo… what about when you NEED to dodge AWAY from you target?!

What about if you target an ennemy, pushing the dodge button without any direction make the bounde reach the ennemy, and if you push a direction it dodges to that said direction ?

Karl McLain.5604:

Aloh,
As we continue screaming toward launch, I’ll update this thread with the goings-on for Daredevil. Here’s a few things we’re testing now:

• Reduced channel time of Channeled Vigor from 2.25 to 0.75
• Vault: Fixed an issue that caused it to not travel its full distance.
• Fist Flurry: Reduced cast time by 20%. note: The final strike occurs just prior to 1 second.
• Evasive Empowerment: This trait has been renamed to Havoc Master and grants the player 7% bonus damage to enemies within the 360 range threshold.
• Impaling Lotus: Increased bleeding duration from 8 to 10 seconds.
• Bounding Dodger: In addition to granting access to the Bound dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% bonus physical damage for 4 seconds after dodging.
• Lotus Training: In addition to granting access to the Impaling Lotus dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% bonus condition damage for 4 seconds after dodging.
• Unhindered combatant: In addition to granting the Dash dodge ability, the thief will gain 10% damage reduction against physical and condition damage.

We like the interaction that Evasive Empowerment had with your endurance bar and wanted to carry it further, but didn’t feel like it could have the desired impact in the adept tier. Thus, each of the grandmaster traits have their own version, geared toward their specific style of play.
Havoc Master has taken its place, as we felt that the line could use a more guaranteed damage increase. For trait mods, we’d like to experiment with Weakening Strikes slightly, adding a secondary to it within its role of debilitation. Options we’re looking at it:

• Inflict X (torment, bleeding, something) when you weaken a foe.
  or
• Receive less damage from weakened foes.

Once again, thanks for your continued constructive feedback. It’s greatly appreciated.

-Karl

Please oh please tell us that Rune of Evasion will be added to Spvp…that would really compliment the DrD spec.

Gabriell.4856:

Please oh please tell us that Rune of Evasion will be added to Spvp…that would really compliment the DrD spec.

completely forgot that rune existed.

checks what it does

it… kinda sucks. like a lot.

Volrath.1473:

Smokin Dice.9103:

“Bounding Dodger” should softlock on your target and try to jump right on top of it, instead of jumping over it when standing right in front of the target

sooo… what about when you NEED to dodge AWAY from you target?!

or dodge through them, which happens a lot during PvP.

Shogun.7401:

I still don’t see why anyone would invite a daredevil in a raid party? What is so special about daredevil? I still don’t see the motivation. What makes daredevil so special? Is it stealth? High dps? Please don’t tell me dodge!!!

Simply DrD does not get you into a raid. For a thief 4 things that I can see get you into a raid:

1) High Single Target DPS for boss Burns
2) Venom Share for support
3) Boon Steal trickery and CC
4) Stealth cloaking/rezzing/healing

Comes down to high ST DPS or Support. DrD directly does not get you into a raid but supports your current raid build. Physical skills add CC which maybe needed in Raid mechanics. Staff provides a little off Dodge tanking if geared/speced right. (Dodge tanking is more speculation at this point as it was never tried in Beta).

As for dodging… I can say yes if you want to place one word on on DrD and raiding. The biggest issue with raid groups is staying out of “red” aka kitten. If dodging keeps you out of red, than dodging it is. A high ST DPS that can burn and stay out of red is welcome in my raid party any day.

It boggles my mind how anyone can say that Staff has bad damage and won’t be a preferred choice for raids etc.

Weakening Charge hits harder than a <25% HP Heartseeker on 5 targets and simply requires positioning, and is easily repeatable against AI creatures. The autoattack hits harder than Sword and is faster than Dagger while applying Vulnerability, while hitting 3 targets. The DrD line has a 7% and 2 10% modifiers that are going to be active pretty much all the time while using Bound (that hits as hard as Cloak and Dagger in a 5 target AoE). A rotation can be spaced out with Vault to keep doing enormous AoE damage while evading key attacks. Staff Master will constantly resupply you with endurance. You can then bring Fist Flurry->Palm Strike and Impact Strike -> Uppercut for CC phases (4 seconds of hard CC and however much a Launch is worth, seems to be a hell of a lot). In situations where you need lots of passive healing over time, Invigorating Precision is more than enough to keep you healthy with very little team support if any. Channeled Vigor with the shorter cast time will be the best heal skill in the game for us.

Daredevil is THE PvE/damage line and Staff is THE power damage weapon. D/D is obsolete for PvE.

Driften.8716:

Shogun.7401:

I still don’t see why anyone would invite a daredevil in a raid party? What is so special about daredevil? I still don’t see the motivation. What makes daredevil so special? Is it stealth? High dps? Please don’t tell me dodge!!!

Simply DrD does not get you into a raid. For a thief 4 things that I can see get you into a raid:

1) High Single Target DPS for boss Burns
2) Venom Share for support
3) Boon Steal trickery and CC
4) Stealth cloaking/rezzing/healing

Comes down to high ST DPS or Support. DrD directly does not get you into a raid but supports your current raid build. Physical skills add CC which maybe needed in Raid mechanics. Staff provides a little off Dodge tanking if geared/speced right. (Dodge tanking is more speculation at this point as it was never tried in Beta).

As for dodging… I can say yes if you want to place one word on on DrD and raiding. The biggest issue with raid groups is staying out of “red” aka kitten. If dodging keeps you out of red, than dodging it is. A high ST DPS that can burn and stay out of red is welcome in my raid party any day.

This. As I was testing the raid, I was doing it on a unicorn DD, and I was consistantly impressed by that build’s ability to specifically keep reliable DPS uptime while dodging everything. The people around me, largely ,were doing one of two things at all times. They were either mitigating damage (dodge/defensive skills/repositioning, etc.) or dealing it. The DD unicorn I was playing was effectively doing both of those things all the time. Deathblossom evasions were stacking bleeds. Dodges from on top of a target were dropping minitrops and firing condition daggers. Dodges toward the target were firing daggers.

Testing it all out I was just looking at it in terms of damage packets and going “I have not stopped dealing damage since the beginning of this fight”

It didn’t have the burst, but the sustained condition damage (which is actually buffed 10% in the live patch) tends to make up for it. It was a really stand-up build that didn’t need much healer babysitting and put out reliable and consistant damage.

When you’re going in to these raid fights, burst is no longer king. these guys have millions of HP you have to whack down with ten players, and as such sustained dps over long periods becomes the more important measure of damage. Conditions start to look really attractive in this circumstance, and you start to work out really interesting combo interactions that don’t usually get considered due to the greater viability of stacking condi users in the party.

All in all I think raid specs in general are very much like dungeon specs. You’re going to see a default PUG “normal” group, and a lot of group comps that build out to rely on esoteric interactions because people were determined to take classes X,Y,and Z and make them work in stead of shelving loved characters just to run the meta.

We have to see the rest of the wing, and further wings, but at least in what we tested there seemed to be plenty of wiggle room to invest in weird group comps that could still take the encounter down through slightly more complex combos or strange skill setups, even without top end clear speeds.

I wouldn’t comment on “meta” comps because, honestly, my group has never run them, as we haven’t had to PUG speedrun, and that’s probably not going to change as we work out our static raid comp. It’s highly likely that the vast majority of classes and builds will be excluded from the “meta” comp just as we see in dungeons today.

The meta is beyond anet’s control, however, as it is a wholly player driven expectation. Anet seems to be adjusting enrages and mechanics in a way that meta speed clear comps will still develop, but just as doing a L50 fractal, aren’t the only way to clear content.

Viewing content from a lens of completion rather than clear time tends to shed light on anet’s pve balance intentions. As it is currently (especially with the new buffs) I don’t see any class or decently considered/geared build being so useless that they can’t take a slot and still contribute to a win, and that includes daredevils. You might cut it a bit closer on the enrage, sure, but you’re not going to auto-fail the encounter if you don’t go full on meta.

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

AoE damage exists on shortbow. Sword permits to cure conditions. With shortbows we can also port away… we don’t really lack tools to cure immobility.

Not nearly to the degree that staff has it. Heck, the shortbow does less AoE damage than the sword.

The point is, AoE already exists and won’t by itself give the staff a unique identity.

And that point is completely wrong. AoE as the staff gives it does not exist.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tabootrinket.2631:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The funny part about all that is, I’ve ran the numbers a few times, and the staff is the highest damaging weapon thieves will have. It has the highest base auto attack, the highest DPS attack, the highest per-initiative damage, the highest AoE damage, and the highest modifiers attached to traits. All at the same time.

So when players say that the staff is low damaging or underpowered and it clearly isn’t… then I have to throw out their feedback as not being objective.

Numbers are bound to change for balance, and they will. Mechanism is another story.
So what will happen when those numbers get toned down ? The weapon gets forgotten.

I don’t buy it. The idea that staff is inadequate because in the future the staff may be nerfed just doesn’t make sense. You’re have to remember, the staff isn’t just max deeps. It is max deeps in every category: per initiative, on auto, at base, overall, and against multiple targets. For the staff to fall out of use, it would have to see every single category hit.

Here’s the thing, a single weapon isn’t supposed to supplant every other weapons (as you suggest the staff does). And each weapon is supposed to add a different “playstyle” compared to the others.
The staff as it is, doesn’t really provide what the others don’t. And that’s the main problem.
So as it is, the numbers in the staff weapon will either make it superior or inferior to other weapons which shouldn’t be the case. You should choose the staff (as you choose other weapons) because it provides another kind of tools, not because it makes the others obsolete.

The staff provides large AoE damage, a feature that isn’t present on any other thief weapon. Also massive weapon stacking and the ability to innately cure immobility.

AoE damage exists on shortbow. Sword permits to cure conditions. With shortbows we can also port away… we don’t really lack tools to cure immobility.

Not nearly to the degree that staff has it. Heck, the shortbow does less AoE damage than the sword.

The point is, AoE already exists and won’t by itself give the staff a unique identity.

And that point is completely wrong. AoE as the staff gives it does not exist.

((sigh)) Well, let’s just agree that this argument has gone completely circle.
I’ll summarize my point of view and be done with it, since there are other interesting things being discussed right now, and this particular point is being dragged out.

The problem with weapons having approximatively the same specs as other weapons, is that it makes them compete with each other. It’s particularly true with the thieves’ initiative system since weapons don’t have individual cooldown.

What happens in that case is people will lean toward the one weapon that does the same thing but better.
What I’m suggesting, is giving each weapon a distinctive mechanism that will complement rather than compete with the others.

In the staff case, this weapon is leaned toward the support (which should be then its particularity). But as it is, other weapon associations can overshadow it in that area with the smoke field while providing other perks (because they have in addition, their own singularity).
Adding a dark field to the staff would give it a unique way to provide it a sustain on par with the others while complementing an “always visible” kind of playstyle (which is the drift of the daredevil). Simply adding better number would shift the balance the other way and just make the staff directly better than the other weapons.

As for AoE. Clusterbomb at point blank range, provides the same kind of attack, but weaker. In the staff’s case, the only tool that’s really unseen in any other kind of form in other weapons right now, is the reflect on the third auto-attack link. The dark field would capitalize on this singularity.
I told you multiple times, that what you consider different, is actually a comparison of numbers. And that’s exactly what I’m trying to say the problem is.
The difference between the weapons should be mechanic-wise, and not purely power-wise. Of course there would be shared area between weapons. But each of them should have that one little thing that would put them aside from the others (mobility, gap-closer, CC, range -stares at pistol-, etc)

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

People who’ve argued Vault damage could further be sacrificed to have more mobility support on it: As long as it doesn’t allow a larger vertical movement, staff is doomed to be the trash that it is for our #2 weapon set for competitive games. Period.

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

Also please check Bound and Vault in detail before comparing them to an equal standard. They simply are not.

Thanks o/

bliss.4305:

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

anyone “with basic understanding” of the game would understand why a ground targeted leap can’t be chained with a teleport. it has nothing to do with them not wanting it. try using cluster bomb on your feet then using shadowstep before you fire the projectile.

and with a 3/4 cast time, vault is pretty reliable to hit now. just count the dodges. i’d still rather have it be a mobility skill, because vertical movement is only really critical in specific situations.

BrunoBRS.5178:

bliss.4305:

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

anyone “with basic understanding” of the game would understand why a ground targeted leap can’t be chained with a teleport. it has nothing to do with them not wanting it. try using cluster bomb on your feet then using shadowstep before you fire the projectile.

and with a 3/4 cast time, vault is pretty reliable to hit now. just count the dodges. i’d still rather have it be a mobility skill, because vertical movement is only really critical in specific situations.

It would actually be a fun glitch to have yourself snap back in mid-air to the targetting area after stealing someone xD
(kinda OP too : target your feet, steal at 1200 range… and come right back lol)

BrunoBRS.5178:

bliss.4305:

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

anyone “with basic understanding” of the game would understand why a ground targeted leap can’t be chained with a teleport. it has nothing to do with them not wanting it. try using cluster bomb on your feet then using shadowstep before you fire the projectile.

and with a 3/4 cast time, vault is pretty reliable to hit now. just count the dodges. i’d still rather have it be a mobility skill, because vertical movement is only really critical in specific situations.

How nice of you to lecture someone on how skills technically work. Ironically it backs up my argument more than it does yours.

What happens when you cluster bomb and teleport right after is it instantly hits where you aim. If you’ve aimed at your target and hit cluster bomb, and then right away teleport, it hits your own feet – which is also your target (since you’ve teleported). There are of course limitations to this. If the range of your teleport is longer than the range of the skill you execute (cluster bomb – in this case), the projectile is thrown “backwards”.

So in fact, on a technical point of view, Vault CAN work in exact same fashion. Its not a technicality, its just not done yet and I think it should, to increase value in a very slow and telegraphed skill.

Impact Strike
Physical. Strike your enemy and Stun them.

This skill dazes for 2 Sec and does NOT Stun for 2 sec. Please fix that!

bliss.4305:

BrunoBRS.5178:

bliss.4305:

Too lazy to quote who’ve disagreed…

And someone actually argues Vault should remain unchainable with Steal and that’s what Bound is for… I would seriously like to see you hit anyone with basic understanding of PvP without chaining Vault to a teleport/teleport+daze combo. Well, maybe afk, lagging or upleveled players then. Good enough, right?

anyone “with basic understanding” of the game would understand why a ground targeted leap can’t be chained with a teleport. it has nothing to do with them not wanting it. try using cluster bomb on your feet then using shadowstep before you fire the projectile.

and with a 3/4 cast time, vault is pretty reliable to hit now. just count the dodges. i’d still rather have it be a mobility skill, because vertical movement is only really critical in specific situations.

How nice of you to lecture someone on how skills technically work. Ironically it backs up my argument more than it does yours.

What happens when you cluster bomb and teleport right after is it instantly hits where you aim. If you’ve aimed at your target and hit cluster bomb, and then right away teleport, it hits your own feet – which is also your target (since you’ve teleported). There are of course limitations to this. If the range of your teleport is longer than the range of the skill you execute (cluster bomb – in this case), the projectile is thrown “backwards”.

So in fact, on a technical point of view, Vault CAN work in exact same fashion. Its not a technicality, its just not done yet and I think it should, to increase value in a very slow and telegraphed skill.

umm… no. you kinda proved you’re not understanding the problem here.

see, ‘cause with vault, you’re the “cluster bomb”. so if you started a vault, you can’t just teleport yourself further from the range, ’cause the vault skill is trying to position you somewhere else.

it’s a conflict of scripts, and that’s why you can’t teleport halfway through vault. one skill says “you’re in point A and you’re moving to point B (which is a peculiarity of ground targeted leaps)”, rather than “you’re moving X amount forward”, so it doesn’t allow the character to be affected by anything else movement-related, including teleports. if you know something about programming, it’s like the vault had a write-lock on the player position, and will only free it up again once it’s over, to avoid a myriad of bugs.

BrunoBRS.5178:

if you know something about programming, it’s like the vault had a write-lock on the player position, and will only free it up again once it’s over, to avoid a myriad of bugs.

Nah, you can always include an exception to the function that allows interruption. So even if you’re airborne during leap, you can still be interrupted by Fear, for example.

It’s just that ArenaNet don’t want us to Steal during a Vault, which is counter-intuitive since we can Steal mid-HS — which is also a leap.