Deadeye: Feedback from demo weekend
Rifle:
- Attack range while not kneeling should be 1500, and 1800 while kneeling. There’s more than enough mobility on every single class to just out-range you the instant they see you kneeling and wasting your ammunition charges. Furthermore, for a “sniper” themed self-immobilizing weapon set, it has absolutely no advantage over opponents like a LB Ranger/Soulbeast, which can burst you harder in a shorter span of time from a longer range, while being free to move around, stealth, and even cc.
- Base auto-attacks (Brutal/Deadly Aim) are not only slow, but extremely weak as well. It’s pistol all over again. Auto attacks should also pierce. There are way too many obstructions running around usually for you to reliably hit your target…the biggest ones being Ranger pets, Mesmer clones/phantasms, and Necro minions.
- Cursed Bullet projectile speed is EXTREMELY slow…like laughably slow. The damage is pathetic as well.
- Skirmisher’s Shot & Spotter’s Shot needs to be unblockable.
- Double Tap & Three Round Burst needs to have a similar initiative return mechanic as Unload, or have their costs reduced to 3.
- Death’s Retreat needs to have its cost lowered to 4 or remove 2 conditions instead of 1 at its current cost. Furthermore, remove the cast time on the skill, or add a 1/2s evade to it as the entire animation takes about 1/2s – I would recommend removing the cast time. It is clunky in its current implementation.
- Death’s Judgement’s telegraph is over the top, especially considering the mark mechanic is already there and the cast time is long enough for anyone decent to react. This in itself is not a problem; however, the problem presents itself when you take into account the hefty initiative cost involved and the fact that it’s not unblockable. I would suggest either reducing the cost by 1 initiative or making it unblockable – preferably not the latter.
- Kneel needs to be completely replaced by Sniper’s Cover because there’s literally never a situation that you wouldn’t want that. Doing so opens up the ability to introduce a new trait, which would help the entire elite spec feel not so Rifle centric; or allow you to simple improve the current trait with something else. Furthermore, I feel like the initiative cost for Sniper’s Cover should be reduced to 2 – it is not like people can spam it anyway due to the ammunition system acting like a cd.
- Movement keys should automatically trigger Free Action once the skill is available. The current implementation is quite clunky.
- Random “obstructed” is already a dominant problem, and the Kneel mechanic does not help the situation. Throughout the demo, I’ve seen way too many “obstructed” when kneeling to feel comfortable about it, because the elevation of the shots is decreased even further than normal.
Heal:
- 30s cd on Malicious Restoration is way too long because of the lack of a trait to reduce Cantrip cds. The simplest fix here to address ALL Cantrip problems is to add a 20% reduction to Cantrips effect to the One in the Chamber trait.
Utilities:
- Highly consider increasing the damage on Shadow Gust. In its current implementation, it cannot compete with everything Blinding Powder offers.
- Reduce the cast time on Shadow Flare.
Elite:
- No change needed; very well executed skill. Not overly strong, not pathetically weak – just perfect for an elite.
Traits:
- Iron Sight needs to be at least 20%, else it will barely, if ever, see any play as it will fail to compete with the other 2 traits in this column, granted they work properly. Keep in mind that it only impacts 1 target.
- One in the Chamber, along with the previous suggested changes, needs to automatically use your current stolen ability before replacing it, instead of overwriting it. Else it is just busy work for no reason. Mercy traited with One in the Chamber does nothing because stolen skills disappear the instant Mark wear off. If the aforementioned changes are applied to stolen skills, this problem will be resolved.
- The regeneration provided by Renewing Gaze is underwhelming to say the least. Just make it a straight heal with a little over 1500 heal at 0 Healing Power.
- Unforgiving should also make your first hit on your marked target unblockable; else it will fail to compete with the other 2 traits in this column.
- Peripheral Vision needs an increased AoE range; I would suggest 600, similar to Phalanx Strength. The current, minimally pathetic range just promotes stacking – BAD! Furthermore, it is highly recommended to increase the affected allied targets to 10, for raiding purposes.
- Fire for Effect, similar to Peripheral Vision, needs to affect a larger AoE. This trait cannot compete with Phalanx Strength. Warriors get access to Phalanx Strength from the same traitline that offers Empower Allies. They also bring banners. Overall, they are simply better and this trait, in its current format, will not compete with that position.
Why do you think stolen skills are random? As per Reddit.
If you steal from a Revenant you will always get Steal resistrance.
If you steal from a thief you will always get Steal Precision.
And so on through all the other professions. I am not sure about all the NPCS but memory tells me I always got Steal Warmth off the tower champion.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6ui69h/deadeye_stolen_skills/
I disagree on your claiming Blinding powder offers more then Sdaowgust. This just because I killed more then a few in WvW by knocking them over cliffs. If you use a Interrupt sigil with shadow gust you cant get up to 5 procs. SG was also very useful when doing rezzes or pushing people away forom an ally they were tring to rez.
I DO think a Cantrip cooldown warranted.
Renewing Gaze is weak and needs something else.
The stolen items are not as kittenuggesed albeit some are weaker then others and could use tweaks.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
I’m gonna agree with Babazhook here…
The stolen skills are not random. You know -exactly- what you will get when you steal from a specific profession, just like with the core thief class. The duration of their conditions increases depending on how much malice you have. This means you can easily slam someone with a bleed that lasts for six seconds. And while Consume Plasma is nice… remember that it’s a tiny edge. None of the boons you gain come in multiple stacks, so it’s not like you’re running someone down while you have 15 stacks of might or something.
I am fine with the Shadow Flare’s cool down. It’s 30 seconds where shadow step is on 50 seconds. The trade offs for taking shadow flare over shadow step is very clear. Flare is an aggressive form of shadow step and is not intended to be used as a means of escape. The damage is underwhelming at first, but when you have a few points of malice it will just start slamming people, and it makes for a very powerful area control.
Movement keys -SHOULD NOT- trigger Free-action. There are plenty of players who double tap to dodge. I personally double tap. It’d be better to give a stronger visual queue on the UI via a color change that contrasts more strongly, and to have it where pressing JUMP will immediately trigger free action.
I do agree that Mark should not have a cast time, and under no circumstance should it be allowed to be blocked, dodged, or suffer line of sight problems. This is a core mechanic of the class, and all of it’s skills. To allow such a thing would introduce a MAJOR hole in the kit.
And the Peripheral Vision trait does need the range enhanced a bit.
Not sure how I feel about the remark on the 30s cool down for malicious restoration needing to be lowered. The heal is actually very strong if you can avoid popping it. But a trait with CD reduction for Cantrips would be nice.
I agree with everything Asur wrote, it could be from me.
I’m gonna agree with Babazhook here…
The stolen skills are not random. You know -exactly- what you will get when you steal from a specific profession, just like with the core thief class. The duration of their conditions increases depending on how much malice you have. This means you can easily slam someone with a bleed that lasts for six seconds. And while Consume Plasma is nice… remember that it’s a tiny edge. None of the boons you gain come in multiple stacks, so it’s not like you’re running someone down while you have 15 stacks of might or something.
Plasma is the top end of stolen skills. None of the mark skills come even close, and everyday anywhere I would prefer plasma. Hell, I would prefer any of the core stolen skills, since the mark skills are just a bad joke. A single boon, and a single condition.
No uniqueness, and no reward for tactical use. there is no point to hold the mark skill back, just spam it right away ( no wait, not even a possibility, since with mark ends the skill also disappears).
Mark skills are just laughable, I mean…even healing seed at least removes a condition.
I am fine with the Shadow Flare’s cool down. It’s 30 seconds where shadow step is on 50 seconds. The trade offs for taking shadow flare over shadow step is very clear. Flare is an aggressive form of shadow step and is not intended to be used as a means of escape. The damage is underwhelming at first, but when you have a few points of malice it will just start slamming people, and it makes for a very powerful area control.
Most fights are already over before Shadow Flare reaches a stadium of “not being a total waste of a utility slot”.
Shadow step offers more utility and movement, breaks stun and does not require the awful slow malice build up time to be even an option to think about.
Movement keys -SHOULD NOT- trigger Free-action. There are plenty of players who double tap to dodge. I personally double tap. It’d be better to give a stronger visual queue on the UI via a color change that contrasts more strongly, and to have it where pressing JUMP will immediately trigger free action.
Absolutely personal preference. Beside that it is just “all of you others has to play like I do!”. Give us the option for WASD triggering free action, so everyone is satisfied.
Not sure how I feel about the remark on the 30s cool down for malicious restoration needing to be lowered. The heal is actually very strong if you can avoid popping it. But a trait with CD reduction for Cantrips would be nice.
Again, a healing skill should not be too situational. With malice affecting the actual heal and condi removal, it is way to dependent, considering the laughable slow build up of malice.
That’s why A.E.D is so bad, not because “the actual heal is quite strong” but because it is not a versatile healing skill in any situation.
I disagree on your claiming Blinding powder offers more then Sdaowgust. This just because I killed more then a few in WvW by knocking them over cliffs.
What a funny and healthy gameplay.
SG was also very useful when doing rezzes or pushing people away forom an ally they were tring to rez.
You cannot use Shadow Gust while reviving, since it has a cast time.
Blinding Powder stealths not just you but your allies, is a blast finisher and blinds enemies.
I can see the uses of SG, but I would prefer Blinding Powder if I have to choose between those two.
Prety much everything that I would suggest if I found the time to write it up nicely like the OP.
Great post.
TUP
applauds Devs take notice please. This is an excellent feedback post. He explains the issues well with wonderful suggestions of fixes. Truly stellar feedback!
I disagree on your claiming Blinding powder offers more then Sdaowgust. This just because I killed more then a few in WvW by knocking them over cliffs.
What a funny and healthy gameplay.
SG was also very useful when doing rezzes or pushing people away forom an ally they were tring to rez.
You cannot use Shadow Gust while reviving, since it has a cast time.
Blinding Powder stealths not just you but your allies, is a blast finisher and blinds enemies.
I can see the uses of SG, but I would prefer Blinding Powder if I have to choose between those two.
So what if SG has a cast time. Someone is about to down your friend. You cast SG and blow him and 4 of his pals away from the downed person and then do your rez. This is like claiming you can not use shadowstep to down someone because it has a cast time.
Its the same tactic other classes use on me when I am trying to finish someone.
As to knockback blowing people over cliffs, it a tactc as old as the game itself. It no different really (save working in reverse) then using SW to pull people off walls and over chasms. It your loss if you fail yo use it to its potential.
There was also a single instance where I was the first into a circle where the enemy about to flip a tower. BP will not help here. I blew them out with shadowgust stopping the flip and giving just enough time for allies to enter the circle. Area knockback with vault is very useful.
I MUCH prefer SG over blinding powder. A Knockdown that puts me into stealth is also much better for setting up a followup attack.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
To holding marked skills back. Of course there a reason to do so and that the increase of durations you get by allowing Malice to build.
If I “hold back” on using Steal Resistance, I can get 6 seconds of resistance on use rather then 3.
If I “hold back” on using Steal durability , I can get 10 seconds portection rather then 5. Further to that if in a condition build , I can save my applications of conditions until just after a cleanse performed.
IE Steal to apply the initial condition bomb , wait for cleanse, immediately apply the stolen condition afer the cleanse. Use mercy and reset mark this gaining INI from having held back on next steal. Repeat steal for another bomb. Apply condition again.
That Steal resistance above can turn into 12 seconds resistance and 6 torment stacks added to all the regular stuff traited for on steal. Trait up Improv and you add another use of each.
Plus it can be done at range meaning no need to steal into a DH sitting on his traps or a blob of enemy sitting acorss a chokepoint with AOE in between. PLUS these boons can be applied to Allies AT range meaning I can load up to 5 allies with that resistance or with quickness or might.
Added to this the range of deadeye steal is 300 greater then base. I do not have to expose myself to a swathe of ranged attacks as I steal.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
Some of your suggestions are insane. Making #3 cost 3 initiative? #2 unblockable? Jeez, slow down, mate. #3 is your main source of damage and you want to make it that easy to spam?
What they need to do is nerf #3’s damage and then lower its cost and maybe increase the Might duration slightly. Then they need to make #4 move faster so it doesn’t get sidestepped at 1000+ range. Maybe it even needs to be Unblockable at full Malice, although it sounds kinda insane. Rifle is clearly meant to be about setup for the perfect #4 crit, but then #4 needs to be extremely good, since large single hit attacks are notoriously bad in GW2 because of Aegis, Blind and a ton of on-demand invulnerability effects.
Deadeye Mark needs to be instant, you should be able to cancel Kneel by movement and it needs to be faster.
The stolen skills are kinda weak and are clearly meant for group support, for the most part. Still, they’re not totally useless. Steal Blood is okay, you can get Protection, Resistance etc. I totally agree that stolen skills shouldn’t expire when Mark expires though.
I like Rifle well enough but something needs to be done with Death’s Retreat. It’s just broken. “Invalid terrain” bug just destroys the skill. It needs to port you at least a bit even if your back is to the wall, otherwise using this skill in combat is often suicidal.
It always amuses me when people who don’t even PvP try explain how “OP” or unbalanced/balanced something is in PvP.
Having said that, I’m glad to see that there are at least some people who realize the current state of DE as being horribly bad, as opposed to DD, in every single part of the game (except open world – but literally everything works there).
It always amuses me when people who don’t even PvP try explain how “OP” or unbalanced/balanced something is in PvP.
Having said that, I’m glad to see that there are at least some people who realize the current state of DE as being horribly bad, as opposed to DD, in every single part of the game (except open world – but literally everything works there).
I suggest that just because you PvP it hardly makes you more an authority on the game than those that do not. PvP is a rigid format and artificially limits what a build can do by that format.
To DE spec itself and how "bad " you claim it is based on a weekend of gameplay.
Some of the same voices were making the same complaints about DrD on its release including your Pvp players. It was referred to as trash and worse then any existing traitline in core.
Contrary to claims it took a year to fix DRd , outside the damage on staff itself it remained virtually unchanged since release and now is considered mandatory by many.
A traitline can not be dismissed as being horribly bad until those that TEST the thing in battle for several weeks on end do so. The beta test of DrD demonstrated we could not learn enough of the spec in a single weekend.
Outside the Rifle itself I think DD is in pretty good shape but will not form a final conclusion until I test it further. I never liked the concept of Rifle on thief on the get go , but can see how some would like it and how it can work in the existing system.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
It always amuses me when people who don’t even PvP try explain how “OP” or unbalanced/balanced something is in PvP.
Having said that, I’m glad to see that there are at least some people who realize the current state of DE as being horribly bad, as opposed to DD, in every single part of the game (except open world – but literally everything works there).
I suggest that just because you PvP it hardly makes you more an authority on the game than those that do not. PvP is a rigid format and artificially limits what a build can do by that format.
To DE spec itself and how "bad " you claim it is based on a weekend of gameplay.
Some of the same voices were making the same complaints about DrD on its release including your Pvp players. It was referred to as trash and worse then any existing traitline in core.
Contrary to claims it took a year to fix DRd , outside the damage on staff itself it remained virtually unchanged since release and now is considered mandatory by many.
A traitline can not be dismissed as being horribly bad until those that TEST the thing in battle for several weeks on end do so. The beta test of DrD demonstrated we could not learn enough of the spec in a single weekend.
Outside the Rifle itself I think DD is in pretty good shape but will not form a final conclusion until I test it further. I never liked the concept of Rifle on thief on the get go , but can see how some would like it and how it can work in the existing system.
Of course it does! Open world is brainless, do whatever you want there.
(high) Fractals: evades and staff of daredevil is just unbeatable there.
Raids: Condi DrD is top end damage, and since DE does nothing for a proper condi build, it sure won’t be even a viable option for a DPS slot.
“But what about replacing PS Warrior?!?” nope, Condi PS is just so insanely good. High damage, even higher damage against big hitboxes while offering banners, PS and shouts. Why would you ever consider replacing a Condi PS warrior with a DE, which has to sacrifice a lot for just keeping might high?
Let’s come to sPVP
Okay, since we cannot really assume any possible combination in a 5v5 match, just let’s talk about the usual meta:
Daredevil, Chrono, Scrapper, Tempest and a Revenant.
Daredevils speed for decaping and supportive +1 is just unreachable. It cannot be replaced by any means, because no other class can do daredevils job
Which other place would you switch for deadeye? Three of those classes already do blocks and overall projectile hate, simply removing you from a +1.
Chrono is also not replaceable. 2xMoa/Portal – ’nough said.
So I am asking you: what will be deadeyes place? Which class would you replace in a proper 5v5? What would you replace in a min-max raid team?
It always amuses me when people who don’t even PvP try explain how “OP” or unbalanced/balanced something is in PvP.
Having said that, I’m glad to see that there are at least some people who realize the current state of DE as being horribly bad, as opposed to DD, in every single part of the game (except open world – but literally everything works there).
I suggest that just because you PvP it hardly makes you more an authority on the game than those that do not. PvP is a rigid format and artificially limits what a build can do by that format.
To DE spec itself and how "bad " you claim it is based on a weekend of gameplay.
Some of the same voices were making the same complaints about DrD on its release including your Pvp players. It was referred to as trash and worse then any existing traitline in core.
Contrary to claims it took a year to fix DRd , outside the damage on staff itself it remained virtually unchanged since release and now is considered mandatory by many.
A traitline can not be dismissed as being horribly bad until those that TEST the thing in battle for several weeks on end do so. The beta test of DrD demonstrated we could not learn enough of the spec in a single weekend.
Outside the Rifle itself I think DD is in pretty good shape but will not form a final conclusion until I test it further. I never liked the concept of Rifle on thief on the get go , but can see how some would like it and how it can work in the existing system.
Of course it does! Open world is brainless, do whatever you want there.
(high) Fractals: evades and staff of daredevil is just unbeatable there.
Raids: Condi DrD is top end damage, and since DE does nothing for a proper condi build, it sure won’t be even a viable option for a DPS slot.
“But what about replacing PS Warrior?!?” nope, Condi PS is just so insanely good. High damage, even higher damage against big hitboxes while offering banners, PS and shouts. Why would you ever consider replacing a Condi PS warrior with a DE, which has to sacrifice a lot for just keeping might high?
Let’s come to sPVP
Okay, since we cannot really assume any possible combination in a 5v5 match, just let’s talk about the usual meta:
Daredevil, Chrono, Scrapper, Tempest and a Revenant.
Daredevils speed for decaping and supportive +1 is just unreachable. It cannot be replaced by any means, because no other class can do daredevils job
Which other place would you switch for deadeye? Three of those classes already do blocks and overall projectile hate, simply removing you from a +1.
Chrono is also not replaceable. 2xMoa/Portal – ’nough said.
So I am asking you: what will be deadeyes place? Which class would you replace in a proper 5v5? What would you replace in a min-max raid team?
He also seems to forget the part where the original DD was actually a complete rehashed Acro (which was gutted right before HoT), and pretty bad compared to the DD we have today. I’m sure he also forgot the part about original traits not being as they are today.
No I do NOT forget that DrD was “bad compared to the DrD” we have today because the DrD on release is virtually indentical.
People continue to make this claim without ANY EVIDENCE.
Patch 1 this 3 months after release following the patch schedule.
One major change to DrD and that bandits defense. NO OTHER changes were DrD related. There wwas more damage added to the Staff but this add was made to all weaponsets as AA damage was boosted across the board.
Patch 2 this 6 moths after release of DrD.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-19-2016/first#post6122828
No changes made to DrD outside adding Vuln to dust strike on staff.
Patch 3 a full NINE months after release of DrD
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-26-2016-1/first#post6270415
No changes made to DrD other then a REDUCTION in staff damage.
The claim DrD was trash until things fixed later is patently false. The WIKI can be used to get a changelog on each and every utility, skill and trait from the DrD line and what amuses me is people will advance the claims “DrD was trash until all changes made” without providing evidence of that those changes were.
You can link to each and every utility and trait.
Some examples.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impairing_Daggers
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Absolution
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant
I would like to know what changes were made that turned DrD from Trash to mandatory > I would also point out that less then 6 months AFTER release we were already getting posts that HOT added powercreep with the elites and that the elites were mandatory. In the PvP forums people were already complaining as to how the release of HOT had lowered build diversity as everyone was forced to take the Elite specs.
As the patch history above shows LITTLE had changed in those elites for the thief since release.
The claim that dRd was bad until it was patched is bogus as is the claim that it was just rehashed ACRO given ACRO was never deemed mandatory.
Against my better judgement, I will respond to you with only this:
You either did not play betas before ANet was given numerous feedback prior to improving DD, or you do not remember correctly.
You will not find the changes made to the original DD because they are not posted under patch notes. Patch notes only state changes made post live release…and even then, not all changes are documented.
Also, I’d like for you to stop trying to derail my thread. Thanks!
PS: I’m not responding to anything else you have to say. I’ve seen enough.
(edited by Asur.9178)