Guild Wars 2

Hi guys Shikamaru X here due to the amount of qq I have a made video showing one of the ways to deal with pd condi thiefs enjoy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63aLufLoOQY

I’m sorry this has some tips on how to deal with this spec but this vid is horrible.

You have one of the best professions to deal with P/D thiefs.
Try again on a zerging/PVT spec profession and get caught off guard, not arranged duels.
If you wasn’t dueling, most P/D thiefs run when they can’t win.
The people you played against need to learn to condi bomb properly.
Try against the perplex chesse build when you get condi bombed with 6-8 conditions and it’s pretty much gg.

The video really shows how much you can kitten up with a P/D condi thief and still do decently. The second one did massive kitten ups like running straight into your ult or standing right next to a big ol bomb without even trying to avoid it but he didnt get punished for it at all. PU mesmer and P/D condi thieves are basicaly idiot proof. Just compare the effort the engi had to put into the duel compared to the thief. Even if its one of the hardest match ups for a P/D thief.

Having an attack range >900 will give you an advantage.

Amazing advice!

gjop.8612:

I’m sorry this has some tips on how to deal with this spec but this vid is horrible.

You have one of the best professions to deal with P/D thiefs.
Try again on a zerging/PVT spec profession and get caught off guard, not arranged duels.
If you wasn’t dueling, most P/D thiefs run when they can’t win.
The people you played against need to learn to condi bomb properly.
Try against the perplex chesse build when you get condi bombed with 6-8 conditions and it’s pretty much gg.

Engi is good against thieves but not great against pd condi thiefs thing can go either way. Not all fights where duels and the first thief was better than the average pd thief and was running a condi build with ambush trait that give 5stack of confusion wth steal which is a very strong condi spec.

Also lets be serious if players are running a zerg build in pvt gear and get caught of guard against a dueling/roaming build and lose, should people really be complaining about that?

phaeris.7604:

Having an attack range >900 will give you an advantage.

Amazing advice!

Yea ikr its great! Though that amount to times I see players using weapons with 1200 range and yet dont make good use of the range leaves me shaking my head.

Mayama.1854:

The video really shows how much you can kitten up with a P/D condi thief and still do decently. The second one did massive kitten ups like running straight into your ult or standing right next to a big ol bomb without even trying to avoid it but he didnt get punished for it at all. PU mesmer and P/D condi thieves are basicaly idiot proof. Just compare the effort the engi had to put into the duel compared to the thief. Even if its one of the hardest match ups for a P/D thief.

Yes I agree pd condi thief and pu mesmers are great at dueling roaming but are not good at anything else. Make them bad at duels then they would be totally useless. Dire gear is the a big reason why pd condi thiefs and other condi spec can get away with more stuff up than other builds.

vincecontix.1264:

Also lets be serious if players are running a zerg build in pvt gear and get cause of guard against a dueling/roaming build and lose, should people really be complaining about that?

Problem is that most of cries on forum start becouse people really do run with a zerg build…
It’s the same problem i already wrote here and there: people pretend to be immortal with any random build in any circumstance, and this is clarily impossible.
This is how the forum is going on and this is how thief got nerfed (and big IMO warrior overpowered)

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an “iWin” button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is “banned” in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a “hidden rule” between “experienced players”: even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such “everything is fair” – even PU and SA and OP elites…<.<

You miss a lot of skills and combos, blasting with EG#4, mistiming loads of magnets and not stunbreaking your overcharged shot to combo a larger burst onto him. Just feedback from the first 3minutes.

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an “iWin” button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is “banned” in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a “hidden rule” between “experienced players”: even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such “everything is fair” – even PU and SA and OP elites…<.<

Than maybee just accept that some classes/builds hardcounter others? Last time I checked a condi engi has zero chance against a condi necro that knows what he does. Same with supply crate. If its in the game you can use it.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Thats a good article about what blaming others for using “cheap” tactics etc. means. No offense but you argue like that guy that I dueled some days ago that whined and called me cheap because I feard him and two shot his thief in lich form. He dueled a power necromancer and he whined because I did something pretty obvious.

Mayama.1854:

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an “iWin” button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is “banned” in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a “hidden rule” between “experienced players”: even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such “everything is fair” – even PU and SA and OP elites…<.<

Than maybee just accept that some classes/builds hardcounter others? Last time I checked a condi engi has zero chance against a condi necro that knows what he does. Same with supply crate. If its in the game you can use it.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Thats a good article about what blaming others for using “cheap” tactics etc. means. No offense but you argue like that guy that I dueled some days ago that whined and called me cheap because I feard him and two shot his thief in lich form. He dueled a power necromancer and he whined because I did something pretty obvious.

Please, don’t bring up the “play to win” thing.
By using the things I mentioned in my post in a 1v1 scenario, you are just showing that you are a “noob” at this game.
Experienced players try to abide to this “hidden” rule when fighting 1v1.
This game is NOT balanced in 1v1, as some things are completely broken. By accepting (and following) these “rules”, you are trying to create a more balanced scenario in which the outcome of the fight is determined by skill.

If you look at the “competitive” side of this game, which is Conquest sPvP (and, to a lesser extent, GvGs), you will see that people will do anything to win. Which is FINE, because this game is more balanced for group fights and your weakness against something can be compensated by the other players in your team.

Also, the main “problem” here is that the OP has included fights that he wins thanks to Supply Crate in a video. Experienced players will get bored easily, as there is no skill involved in winning like that.
Why would anyone make a video (titled “how to beat engi as necro”) in which he beats a condi Engi as a Condi Necro? Since you are sharing the video here in these forums, which are populated by a good amount of decent players, you should know that they would probably “complain” because what a good player looks for in a video is quality play. If that is lacking, then they will usually get bored. Winning a 1v1 with Supply Crate is not a show of quality play.

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an "iWin" button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is "banned" in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a "hidden rule" between "experienced players": even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such "everything is fair" - even PU and SA and OP elites...&lt;.&lt;

Than maybee just accept that some classes/builds hardcounter others? Last time I checked a condi engi has zero chance against a condi necro that knows what he does. Same with supply crate. If its in the game you can use it.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Thats a good article about what blaming others for using "cheap" tactics etc. means. No offense but you argue like that guy that I dueled some days ago that whined and called me cheap because I feard him and two shot his thief in lich form. He dueled a power necromancer and he whined because I did something pretty obvious.

Please, don’t bring up the "play to win" thing.
By using the things I mentioned in my post in a 1v1 scenario, you are just showing that you are a "noob" at this game.
Experienced players try to abide to this "hidden" rule when fighting 1v1.
This game is NOT balanced in 1v1, as some things are completely broken. By accepting (and following) these "rules", you are trying to create a more balanced scenario in which the outcome of the fight is determined by skill.

If you look at the "competitive" side of this game, which is Conquest sPvP (and, to a lesser extent, GvGs), you will see that people will do anything to win. Which is FINE, because this game is more balanced for group fights and your weakness against something can be compensated by the other players in your team.

Also, the main "problem" here is that the OP has included fights that he wins thanks to Supply Crate in a video. Experienced players will get bored easily, as there is no skill involved in winning like that.
Why would anyone make a video (titled "how to beat engi as necro") in which he beats a condi Engi as a Condi Necro? Since you are sharing the video here in these forums, which are populated by a good amount of decent players, you should know that they would probably "complain" because what a good player looks for in a video is *quality play*. If that is lacking, then they will usually get bored. Winning a 1v1 with Supply Crate is not a show of quality play.

Hi ya, the first fight was not a duel and it end up being a 2v1 and it all the fights I never really pressured by the thief. Pd condi SA thief is acutally one of the strongest dueling condition builds around and engi doesn’t really counter that spec.

Also in the 2nd fight I used crate by accident I was never in danger at all and the thief reset the fight with 3 or 4 more full shadow refuges after the crate it didnt have any bearing on the fight.

I wasnt even using a good dueling build I was using a spec that more for group play. The video wasn’t meant to show how pro I am or stuff like thats it just showing that pd thief have weakness.

vincecontix.1264:

Hi ya, the first fight was not a duel and it end up being a 2v1 and it all the fights I never really pressured by the thief. Pd condi SA thief is acutally one of the strongest dueling condition builds around and engi doesn’t really counter that spec.

Also in the 2nd fight I used crate by accident I was never in danger at all and the thief reset the fight with 3 or 4 more full shadow refuges after the crate it didnt have any bearing on the fight.

I wasnt even using a good dueling build I was using a spec that more for group play. The video wasn’t meant to show how pro I am or stuff like thats it just showing that pd thief have weakness.

My posts were merely to reply to the “why wouldn’t supply crate be allowed” comment above.
I only watched the first encounter: you did well popping Supply Crate there because another guy jumped in and it was a “legit” move.
I got quite bored afterwards because I don’t really enjoy watching fights against P/D condi SA thieves :/

Needless to say, the “unbeatable” P/D condi spec is this one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqY4al0Mp7plPx0J8PNBNRxdNEDzg3hxXshaFAA-TVyFABKcQAoT/wv7PIp6POcCA6TJIAPAgmU+hwRAgUAQMNC-w
… which I didn’t see featured in this video.
Also, it was sad to see that those thieves didn’t know how to use Throw Gank properly, as it’s incredibly useful if you’re a P/D condi user.

Take it as a suggestion: if you want to make a video in which you show how to beat a certain build, at least face the “best” possible version of said build. The advice you included in the video are nice though, but for the future you should include better fights IMHO.

Still, I agree that P/D condi SA is extremely strong and it requires close to no effort to be successful with.

moi.4398:

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

hihey.1075:

Mayama.1854:

dank.3680:

Win the 1v1’s without the crate and I might be somewhat impressed (not much since your basically using the best class for the situation).

But you really didn’t get anywhere close to killing either, without the crate. Winning a 1v1 with that elite is not something to be proud of or write home about in my opinion.

Whats the problem? Its part of the class if you cant win against an engineer with crates you will never win against one. He also dropped the crates on accident in the second fight.

Using Supply Crate is like an “iWin” button if you know how to use it. That’s why it is “banned” in pretty much every decent 1v1 server.
Think of it as a “hidden rule” between “experienced players”: even in the Obsidian Sanctum, very few players use it. It would be like using Thieves Guild, or Moa Morph, or Lich Form. These Elites are completely OP in a 1v1 scenario, because the correct use of them can usually guarantee a win (unless the player using it is incredibly worse than his opponent).

Still, it’s WvW, and as such “everything is fair” – even PU and SA and OP elites…<.<

Than maybee just accept that some classes/builds hardcounter others? Last time I checked a condi engi has zero chance against a condi necro that knows what he does. Same with supply crate. If its in the game you can use it.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html

Thats a good article about what blaming others for using “cheap” tactics etc. means. No offense but you argue like that guy that I dueled some days ago that whined and called me cheap because I feard him and two shot his thief in lich form. He dueled a power necromancer and he whined because I did something pretty obvious.

Please, don’t bring up the “play to win” thing.
By using the things I mentioned in my post in a 1v1 scenario, you are just showing that you are a “noob” at this game.
Experienced players try to abide to this “hidden” rule when fighting 1v1.
This game is NOT balanced in 1v1, as some things are completely broken. By accepting (and following) these “rules”, you are trying to create a more balanced scenario in which the outcome of the fight is determined by skill.

If you look at the “competitive” side of this game, which is Conquest sPvP (and, to a lesser extent, GvGs), you will see that people will do anything to win. Which is FINE, because this game is more balanced for group fights and your weakness against something can be compensated by the other players in your team.

Also, the main “problem” here is that the OP has included fights that he wins thanks to Supply Crate in a video. Experienced players will get bored easily, as there is no skill involved in winning like that.
Why would anyone make a video (titled “how to beat engi as necro”) in which he beats a condi Engi as a Condi Necro? Since you are sharing the video here in these forums, which are populated by a good amount of decent players, you should know that they would probably “complain” because what a good player looks for in a video is quality play. If that is lacking, then they will usually get bored. Winning a 1v1 with Supply Crate is not a show of quality play.

Does use LOS ( mainly in duel arena bc you can’t really do this in OS ) is one of those “hidden rule” between “experienced players” ? .

Hiding behind the small pillars in Forest of Niflhel is a legitimate tactic in 1v1 servers. LOS-ing is allowed in 1v1s, but when people start doing that in other maps (such as behind the structures in the Graveyard of Foefire), their opponents can usually get kittened.

moi.4398:

Nice to know , I knew for the 1v1 at forest ( thx king of the hill ) but not for the others map , so I’m not the only one who find some things " weirds " or " unfair " in duels . I totally understand and agree with your point , crate included .

But in a other sense , I’m so sick of thieves resetting the fight with Shadow refuge ( imo this skill is not a resetter itself but 6 Shadows Arts with the obvious traits make it ) that I will not throw the rock to the OP by use crate in this situation .

And as you said , its WvW , everything is fair

There are many ways to throw a thief off a refuge. When you are fighting against a thief, especially if he is SA based, you should keep your trump card for when he uses SR. SA thieves usually use Refuge when they are low on HP, so if you have some AoEs you can easily finish him off.

moi.4398:

Zord.6130:

moi.4398:

Nice to know , I knew for the 1v1 at forest ( thx king of the hill ) but not for the others map , so I’m not the only one who find some things " weirds " or " unfair " in duels . I totally understand and agree with your point , crate included .

But in a other sense , I’m so sick of thieves resetting the fight with Shadow refuge ( imo this skill is not a resetter itself but 6 Shadows Arts with the obvious traits make it ) that I will not throw the rock to the OP by use crate in this situation .

And as you said , its WvW , everything is fair

There are many ways to throw a thief off a refuge. When you are fighting against a thief, especially if he is SA based, you should keep your trump card for when he uses SR. SA thieves usually use Refuge when they are low on HP, so if you have some AoEs you can easily finish him off.

I know this , as mesmer , keep your GS#5 , as necro keep your Staff#5 etc etc . But like crate can be a “Iwin” button if used correctly , like SR can be a " 2nd chance " when used correctly ( talking ONLY when using SA ). Use it when you are so much in danger that some AoE may kill you is pretty much a mistake , especially when you can shadowstep / drop a blind field / dodge in your SR / withdraw and weapon swap and some others tricks for don’t get hit while in . But in a 1v1 scenario , your opponent will certainly not have the tools for deal with it ( on cd etc ) and you on your side can still avoid those counters .

I may look like a pure thief hater ik but i swear i’m not , it’s not my main but I have almost 1200h on it . I really love it , know stealth have counterplay etc . But the force of a p/d thief is the SA trait line , the weaponset itself is as counterable as d/d because CnD lust land for land your damage , pew pew your pistol 1 as p/d will not kill any decent player who know his heal button . The thing is d/d must go in critical strikes for a guaranted damage and needs SA for survive ( and imo it’s the only set who TRULY need it ) . Where p/d and s/d is more about sustained damage so they can invest in trickery and SA and leave crit alone , making them a lot more stronger than a d/d can be . I can be wrong , I’m just sharing my opinion .

I think the OP did pretty good against his opponents , because he knows how thief works , and once you rolled one and play it , it’s like an open book. Sometimes you can same dodge the steal xD

Nah you’re not a thief hater, SA to its very core is broken. There is little to no skill involved in it especially when you run p/d or d/p with it. I main thief and i hate it :p

I’m an average player and I don’t see why someone would qq about the use of an elite skill.

TG, Supply crate, whatever… It’s a fight, you use it because every class has elite skills. If you can’t win against a full complement of your opponents skills then its simply because you aren’t good enough (and I know I lose plenty).

Call me a logical person, because I don’t get it.