Did they just drop you within 2 seconds? Did you just take 10k from a single backstab? If the answer is yes to any of these, then boy do I have the deal of you! It’s called TOUGHNESS!!! Toughness can be used by any class and is great for turning those 10k frowns into 6k laughs! You can wear toughness anywhere. It’s fashionable and dependable. And if you liked toughness, you’ll just LOVE what goes with it.
Introducing the always beautiful, the always pleasant, DODGING! Dodging is graceful and elegant. I have yet to see anyone not like dodging once they’ve really seen what she can do.
Are you saying to yourself 6k is still too high? No worries! INTRODUCING PROTECTION! This fine specimen is strong and stalwart and is always willing to be your knight in shining armour. With protection you turn that measly 6k into a weakly 4k in a moments notice. But wait! There’s more!
When it comes to your defences, Blocking is always ready to be your first, last, and everything in the middle’s way to stop anything from scratching up your pretty face.
You can buy any of our products individually but they also work great as a package set. Buy one or all today!
I’m a Warrior, where can I get this new-fangled ‘protection’ the kids keep telling me about? I asked my thief buddies about it, but they just shrugged.
You know, I’ve only EVER been, to my perception, honestly 1 shot wtfpwnbbq’d. I think it was by a grenade engineer and that was at least 2 months ago.
Everything else was either my mistake or my build choices or the situation, or a combination of those. I wasn’t even upset at the grenade thing. It was more hysteria than anything else.
Hmm…I don’t like the fine print under “Back Stab” clause. :/
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
I’m a Warrior, where can I get this new-fangled ‘protection’ the kids keep telling me about? I asked my thief buddies about it, but they just shrugged.
Convert a condition to boon with Warhorn.
Good luck with that one.
I like how in the first picture, you also get hit for 4k damage from a ranger’s pet.
Jupp, that also seems overly balanced, while the ranger can bunker with conditions (I changed nothing at any time, I always try to reach the 2500 armor, otherwise I feel squishy)
@swinsk.6410
I honestly find playing the standard “OP” cantrips rather boring and find myself not being able to kill anything. At the same time Ele glass cannon damage is negligible compared to 4k number 2, so I tried to go for a different build. I actually have no issues with thieves and find them quite balanced (except some exploiters that can avoid the reveal debuff and literally stay stealthed 90% of the time while bursting), but stating that their damage is normal and some toughness will help is righout lying or the OP has no idea what he is talking about.
Zwim Elementalist
Consigliere
The Dragoon Brotherhood
i think the damage in the pictures are not according to stats posted
imo*
+you don’t know if the other player is glass with +150% crit dmg/50%crit chance or not
that’s a pathetic amount of toughness :s Seriously, that’s about how much I have on my zerker thief with 1 toughness item and traits… I don’t know what build those guys are using but it looks very weak. Then again I don’t know how spvp gear works so maybe that’s normal but it doesn’t look it.
Can a thief die if he plays like a total furrball? Yes.
If you time your burst and position yourself is it possible to kill pretty much everything in under a sec and in a very gimmicky way? Yes.
A bit harder to pull off in a closed setting like spvp, where positioning is and timing is even more important due to the limited space and the time you’re required to down a target. Truth is in wubwub a roaming thief can choose exactly when he wants to fight or when he wants to reset or flee. The increased ability for min-maxing doesn’t help much either. A smart thief can down whoever he wants in 1v1.
I don’t think they are OP, they are just forced into using a gimmicky and a stupid fighting style. Similar ridiculous gimmicky specs were 100nades and 100b, but they were both with their glaring flaws and you could always see your attacker. 100b warrs probably had to do the most job to setup their kills against smart players.
Those numbers on Swim’s screenshot are totally fine and 1.5k toughness is something a lot of other classes can’t actually take in spvp, otherwise they’ll lose all of their damage. The high damage from pet was not due to him having low toughness, it was probably a tanky ranger he fought. They don’t share stats with pets and 4-5k and upwards is totally normal if you get hit by a stealthed jaguar (every hit from stealth crits), I’ve hit a thief for 5.7k with jaguar+RaO for example.
I like how in the first picture, you also get hit for 4k damage from a ranger’s pet.
Jupp, that also seems overly balanced, while the ranger can bunker with conditions (I changed nothing at any time, I always try to reach the 2500 armor, otherwise I feel squishy)
@swinsk.6410
I honestly find playing the standard “OP” cantrips rather boring and find myself not being able to kill anything. At the same time Ele glass cannon damage is negligible compared to 4k number 2, so I tried to go for a different build. I actually have no issues with thieves and find them quite balanced (except some exploiters that can avoid the reveal debuff and literally stay stealthed 90% of the time while bursting), but stating that their damage is normal and some toughness will help is righout lying or the OP has no idea what he is talking about.
I suggest you get earth armor.
I am 30/30/0/0/10 on thief and I bursted a ranger today who had protection up and I backstabbed him for 6k. Considering he had at least 18k hp, that wasn’t even close enough to bring him down. He was at 60% after cnd+mug+backstab. He healed back to full in the next few seconds. Protection saved him.
With the right abilities up or using them you can avoid thief burst.
I suggest at least getting 1 cantrip to avoid a burst.
i think the damage in the pictures are not according to stats posted
imo*
+you don’t know if the other player is glass with +150% crit dmg/50%crit chance or not
Damage is with those stats and you can’t get more than 62% crit damage in sPvP (unless specific traits?)
And I am well aware how to mitigate the damage, I was just showing examples from the other side.
Zwim Elementalist
Consigliere
The Dragoon Brotherhood
Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.
Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.
Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.
Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.
Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
Would really love to know how to 1 shot people and how to make sure they can’t possibly see me coming, please explain.
Stealth isn’t permenant, at least not without burning all your initiative and cooldowns and thief skills have some of the lowest skill coefficients in the game (beaten only by people who have conditions or AoE attached to almost all their skills)
So to get to someone with no chance of them seeing you, you have to be using up all your resources just for walking around, to do the damage you need to chain together at LEAST 3 skills which in ideal conditions takes 1 second but conditions are rarely ideal and is more 2-3 seconds with 4 seconds being the absolute limit before its “failed” all of which is ignoring the fact that you don’t have the cooldowns or the initiative to actually pull it off because you’ve been “unseen”
So yeah… clearly ONE shotting with no way to know they are around…
Of course no one else can possibly come close while having more overall use! nope! no one they can’t do more damage over a similiar average time period or with less set up and none of them get defenses and sustainability to stay AFTER the burst to mop up anyone else, thieves truly are unique and totally OP [/sarcasm]
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
On my end? Well yes, the biggest chunk of the damage output is made at range and the commands are facerollable, you can’t really predict when he’ll launch all that, you get hard CC on top of that.
I’ve fought Thieves on different builds, often the same one over over and over again, at first he’d just run straight to me and Steal when in range, I just pulled my Gear Shield and waited, the moment he wasted the Mug + venom + CnD on the Shield, I exploded him. He came back, the same manner, same results. The third time, he’d actually make me use my Gear Shield and eventual dodges so he could use Steal right after. Had no choice but to land the Supply Crate on his face during the time I was blocking as diversion.
Now, I’m an Engi, we are very well prepared when dealing with Thieves, many other classes don’t have that luck, a Thief knowing how to make the best use of Steal will automatically have the edge on the engage.
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.
Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.
Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
the pistol shooting, the immobilize and blurred all happen at pretty much the same time. Not sure exactly the damage pistol can do but blured is the same damage as backstab but you’re invuln while using it, don’t need to position yourself awkwardly, and are visible.
Not to mention a shatter mesmer can do higher burst than a thief if they crit all and pull off steal cnd backstab. The illusions are melee but the mesmer doesn’t have to be
Wake me up when other classes can one shot GCs without warning and at range.
Well, even an Engi’s Static Discharge Rifle build can do that, if you really want to open debates.
Mesmer with s/p + shatter and illusionary leap.
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
the pistol shooting, the immobilize and blurred all happen at pretty much the same time. Not sure exactly the damage pistol can do but blured is the same damage as backstab but you’re invuln while using it, don’t need to position yourself awkwardly, and are visible.
Not to mention a shatter mesmer can do higher burst than a thief if they crit all and pull off steal cnd backstab. The illusions are melee but the mesmer doesn’t have to be
This guy right here has no idea what he is talking about.
Pistol phantasm has a cast time
Blurred frenzy deals the damage over 2 seconds.
The immobilize from sword is iffy at best and can be easily dodged.
Shatter mesmers won’t do as much damage as a thief unless they are fully glass cannon with illusionary persona – which requires them to be in melee range.
If he shatters from range you can dodge into the shatter to negate most of it as the clones run SO SLOWLY.
This guy right here has no idea what he is talking about.
Pistol phantasm has a cast time
Blurred frenzy deals the damage over 2 seconds.
The immobilize from sword is iffy at best and can be easily dodged.
If you’re wanting to go on about cast times then cnd, backstab, bas venom, all have cast times that are every easy to see coming as well so why aren’t people complaining that those skills aren’t instant? Pistol phantasm has prep time, wouldn’t call that cast time. Cast it as you are chasing or sneaking or w/e you’re doing, sword blink, blured, all hits at same time. If opponent not dead, then you have up to 3 shatters to blow on your opponent.
Shatter mesmers won’t do as much damage as a thief unless they are fully glass cannon with illusionary persona – which requires them to be in melee range.
If he shatters from range you can dodge into the shatter to negate most of it as the clones run SO SLOWLY.
So what you’re saying is that a mesmer won’t do as much damage as a glass thief unless the mesmer is also glass? I fail to see the problem. You’re also saying that skills can be dodged or negated? Good to know, I hope that isn’t something that’s only usable vs mesmers :s
I know right, the 1/2 second cast time of CnD is the same as a 2 second blurred frenzy. Backstab also takes 1/4 second to cast which is definitely very significant.
Also to your second point I’m just pointing out that what you claimed earlier is completely untrue. It doesn’t have anything to do with ‘balance’.
Edit: Oh yeah I just checked, phantasmal duelist takes 2.25 seconds to complete the channel. Just to reiterate, I don’t think thieves are OP (definitely very strong), but you should get your facts straight.
lol at you, this was a lighthearted post made for entertainment purposes and you came here to rage and get mad. I don’t even know why you’re posting stuff like this. Quit trying to call people out. Read this with the voice of Billy Mays and have some fun. If you’re this serious all the time then I feel sorry for you.
This happens without warning? Really? I can’t take evasive measures? Thief’s can one shot GCs who don’t even know they’re there. No question of evasive measures.
You get one-shotted without warning? Really? If a Thief Backstabs you from a previous stealth, that will do a lot of damage, but even if it crits enormously I can’t imagine it one-shotting you all on it’s own.
The typical Thief burst is some variation of Mug → CnD → Backstab for D/D, or Mug → Black Powder → Heartseeker → Backstab for D/P. Neither of those combinations happen instantaneously or without warning, and I’ve avoided both without much difficulty.
Did they just drop you within 2 seconds? Did you just take 10k from a single backstab? If the answer is yes to any of these, then boy do I have the deal of you! It’s called TOUGHNESS!!! Toughness can be used by any class and is great for turning those 10k frowns into 6k laughs! You can wear toughness anywhere. It’s fashionable and dependable. And if you liked toughness, you’ll just LOVE what goes with it.
Introducing the always beautiful, the always pleasant, DODGING! Dodging is graceful and elegant. I have yet to see anyone not like dodging once they’ve really seen what she can do.
Are you saying to yourself 6k is still too high? No worries! INTRODUCING PROTECTION! This fine specimen is strong and stalwart and is always willing to be your knight in shining armour. With protection you turn that measly 6k into a weakly 4k in a moments notice. But wait! There’s more!
When it comes to your defences, Blocking is always ready to be your first, last, and everything in the middle’s way to stop anything from scratching up your pretty face.
You can buy any of our products individually but they also work great as a package set. Buy one or all today!
I read this in the voice of the announcer for ‘The Price Is Right’.
Childhood, redeemed.
I just don’t like it when people lie to prove their point. It’s even better when you can’t think of a proper argument and resort to insulting me.
All I did was fact check some of the things you claimed and you get annoyed?
I did a response that wasn’t a numbers game or anything it was just a real life practice senario but then you had to go super factual to try and be superior. Sorry that you didn’t think that was a proper argument. When you’re rooted in place with a guy instantly blured frenzying you and a phantasmal gunsligner shooting you all at the same time, the numbers poping up can be overwhelming and the damage is huge. You can’t argue that so I don’t know why you’re trying to disprove me with deals damage over x-time. Fact it the stuff hurts and comes fast. I didn’t come here for an argument so please stop trying to make it into one.
Someone is still using a pistol on mesmer? :o
Regular mindwrack with blurred does nowhere near the damage a thief combo does and it’s much easier to avoid. Mesmers are strong, but their combo is noticeably longer than thiefs. They have the upside of crazy AoE and CC/utility combined with their nice burst.
And by “oneshotting” I think people are referring to “globaling” or “one-comboing” players.
For example d/p: precast AS and Basilisk when approaching target unnoticed, BP->start of HS->Steal (Mug)->HS lands on target->Backstab (everything except tankier targets are dead, combo takes less than a sec after the BP). For tankier stuff, interrupt heal and finish up with daze spam to autoattack or a well delived HS. Stomp with BP and GG.
If you want to be extra sneaky then SR behind the corner without being seen, pop BV and AS, walk behind your squishy target backstab->HS+Steal (Mug). Works pretty well against total GC.
a mug and backstab isn’t going to be enough to kill anyone in that combination realistically psybunny unless you get really lucky and the mug drops someone to 50% hp or less the HS is going to do no real damage, but for a mug to drop someone to half health you have to be perfect glass (with situational boosts) against a glass thief/ele/guardian, the second two of which have to not have their boons on at all, but again thats glass cannons killing glass cannons, anyone who actively removes all defense from their build or runs around as an uplevel really can’t complain when someone else kills them.
a mug and backstab isn’t going to be enough to kill anyone in that combination realistically psybunny unless you get really lucky and the mug drops someone to 50% hp or less the HS is going to do no real damage, but for a mug to drop someone to half health you have to be perfect glass (with situational boosts) against a glass thief/ele/guardian, the second two of which have to not have their boons on at all, but again thats glass cannons killing glass cannons, anyone who actively removes all defense from their build or runs around as an uplevel really can’t complain when someone else kills them.
No matter what the class or build, you shouldn’t be able to down a person in an instant in sPvP. And for those who say that mug + backstab never takes a person down, here’s proof:
Glass cannon or not, this happened from stealth without any chance to react. It’s not as if it was a fair duel with “/bow” happening first. This came out of nowhere.
No other class can do this. No class should be able to do this to anyone.
because thats just mug and backstab, no cloak and dagger and no one else fighting them!
plus a 14k backstab is extremely hard to get and will most likely have required team buffs and such to get. And yes classes should be able to do that IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO UTILIZE ANY DEFENSE.
You cannot expect to remove all your defense and not utilize and sort of defensive boon or mechanic and NOT die to other peoples burst and again the thief wont just be walking around in stealth constantly, they’ll have spotted you and gone to stealth for the 3-4 seconds to hit you that means you have time to spot him.
Considering how many other classes could hit bigger numbers without spending that time closing, heck a killshot would probably have hit you for over 20k hp from 1500 range coming out of no where and giving you no time to react.
And for the /bow stuff… well its sPvP you essentially did the /bow the moment you entered a match, put some defense on, utilize some defensive moves and start being aware of your environment like a proper pvper should.
plus a 14k backstab is extremely hard to get and will most likely have required team buffs and such to get. And yes classes should be able to do that IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO UTILIZE ANY DEFENSE.
Oh yeah? Which other class can do this? Remember this is from stealth and in less than a second so no chance for defensive measures.
No one is complaining that GC’s are squishy and that they die. It’s a fact of life. But there is such a thing known as counterplay. With skillful play you should be able to react and negate damage even if you’re a GC.
This burst from stealth doesn’t allow for any counterplay. And so I repeat – no one should be able to do this.
well the fact that you didnt see the thief turn the corner, see you and then stealth/warp means the actual period of time you are vulnerable is much greater than the 1 second (which only possible in the most optimal conditions such as you facing away from them and standing perfectly still).
Which means a warrior could have turned the corner and cast kill shot before you noticed them, a mesmer could have their clones up and heading to you before you notice them so on an so forth.
The moment the steal hits you can counter as well, you take damage: react with a roll, this could dodge the CnD it might not but you’d then be aware of them and they’d be out of position for the backstab etc.
the way your stating it went down makes it sound like you where standing still with your back to a path to your area with no defensive skills up or such. While the thief will have had sigil stacks and probably even might stacks from team mates to hit that level of damage.
well the fact that you didnt see the thief turn the corner, see you and then stealth/warp means the actual period of time you are vulnerable is much greater than the 1 second (which only possible in the most optimal conditions such as you facing away from them and standing perfectly still).
Which means a warrior could have turned the corner and cast kill shot before you noticed them, a mesmer could have their clones up and heading to you before you notice them so on an so forth.
The moment the steal hits you can counter as well, you take damage: react with a roll, this could dodge the CnD it might not but you’d then be aware of them and they’d be out of position for the backstab etc.
the way your stating it went down makes it sound like you where standing still with your back to a path to your area with no defensive skills up or such. While the thief will have had sigil stacks and probably even might stacks from team mates to hit that level of damage.
I was just running to a point. Like everyone does. All the time. Mesmer clones run towards you so slowly that I can yawn before I dodge or put up a defensive skill. Warriors need to already be in combat to get the adrenaline for kill shot. And of course, they’re visible.
The average reaction time of a human being is half a second. Take into consideration the time to press the button, the signal reaching the servers, and I was dead before my stun break had the chance to even register.
I don’t mind dying. I’ve died to every class in the game. I enjoy good fights and dying to a well fought match with skilled play is fair. When there’s no chance of counterplay, that’s a problem.
I never have a problem with thieves when I know they’re in the vicinity. I throw up block skills, dodge, swing around randomly. The problem is when they burst from stealth and I don’t even know they exist in the area.
