Guild Wars 2

bhagwad.4281:

Warriors need to already be in combat to get the adrenaline for kill shot.

Healing Surge and Berserker Stance can be used to fill endurance without entering combat.

Adrenaline also doesn’t fade immediately upon leaving combat, it can stay maxxed out for a fair while after leaving before it starts to decay.

Taril.8619:

bhagwad.4281:

Warriors need to already be in combat to get the adrenaline for kill shot.

Healing Surge and Berserker Stance can be used to fill endurance without entering combat.

Adrenaline also doesn’t fade immediately upon leaving combat, it can stay maxxed out for a fair while after leaving before it starts to decay.

A warrior is rooted to the spot while his 1.75 second channel works. The target can go out of range, be obstructed accidentally, not to mention the glaringly obvious animation of a warrior kneeling down to line up his hit.

Base movement speed is 300 units per second. For a kill shot to work, the warrior has to start the shot while within a 675 unit range. Very easy to spot. Easily visible.

All the little things add up. Like also needing adrenaline. Individually none of these would be a problem. When you combine them, it makes a sudden burst out of nowhere very unlikely.

Many classes are able to dish out huge damage in one shot. But none of them have it quite so easy as a thief and no other class can do it that reliably.

I have no objections to losing to a thief in a fair fight. I’m a GC and if I make a mistake I die. I’ve never complained if I lose in a fair fight. But one shotting from stealth is not fair. No chance of counterplay, no chance to prepare.

And that is something no class should be able to do.

problem is if you not seeing the thief going into stealth/using his combo (as in walking into 900 range) then your unlikely to see that warrior at a longer range casting the spell.

Throw into that the fact that afterwards the warrior is still there with lots of stuff they can do, that warrior that has managed to get within 900 range and get the combo off you now has nothing left and is essentially a free kill for the next 45 seconds, if their combo is stopped (well timed dodge other defensive moves etc) then they’ve accomplished nothing and still don’t have anything else then can do.

Stealth lasts for 3 seconds at base, so thieves are not permanently invisible its highly unlikely that a thief can get in to burst you without being visible at some point, the moment they are visible you can take stock and come up with a counter play, if they are D/D you know full well they are going to be going for the steal into backstab as soon as they get into 900 range allowing you to start defenses and such.

A thief simply cannot one shot from stealth without a team buffing him up, at best they can three shot you from stealth but with plenty of times where it can be countered.

Technically a warrior has a better chance of 1 shotting from stealth than a thief does he would just need a team mate to set the stealth up for them.

Dasorine.1964:

problem is if you not seeing the thief going into stealth/using his combo (as in walking into 900 range) then your unlikely to see that warrior at a longer range casting the spell.

Throw into that the fact that afterwards the warrior is still there with lots of stuff they can do, that warrior that has managed to get within 900 range and get the combo off you now has nothing left and is essentially a free kill for the next 45 seconds, if their combo is stopped (well timed dodge other defensive moves etc) then they’ve accomplished nothing and still don’t have anything else then can do.

Stealth lasts for 3 seconds at base, so thieves are not permanently invisible its highly unlikely that a thief can get in to burst you without being visible at some point, the moment they are visible you can take stock and come up with a counter play, if they are D/D you know full well they are going to be going for the steal into backstab as soon as they get into 900 range allowing you to start defenses and such.

A thief simply cannot one shot from stealth without a team buffing him up, at best they can three shot you from stealth but with plenty of times where it can be countered.

Technically a warrior has a better chance of 1 shotting from stealth than a thief does he would just need a team mate to set the stealth up for them.

Yet the fact remains that I’ve never been one shotted by surprise by a warrior. If you were to tally up the number of time this has happened to anyone playing GW2, what do you think the ratio of warrior/thief one shotting would be?

thats because warriors generally don’t build like that because they get more use out of doing other things, thieves don’t really have much option.

Throw into the fact that people seem to focus more on thieves than anything to the point where they blame a thief for a death that the thief couldn’t possibly be responsible for (such as one time an elementalist burst someone down I was running at and they blamed me for their death surrounded by explosions and lightning).

Then of course you got all the people that have no issues with thieves and don’t care if they can potentially do a reasonable burst because they are so easy to kill for them, its just they rarely come to the forums to state so because they are happy having fun in the game.

If this is so terribly unfair and overpowered I really do suggest you play a thief yourself and go do some higher level sPvP or such and see how well you can do with this potential 1 kill a minute build.

And of course if you get to decide no one should be able to do burst damage like this in game then surely I can decide no one should be able to spawn loads of clones, put down portals, haste entire groups etc etc as well? Or is it only you that gets to decide whether something you personally dislike regardless of how it actually works is wrong or not…

bhagwad.4281:

Dasorine.1964:

plus a 14k backstab is extremely hard to get and will most likely have required team buffs and such to get. And yes classes should be able to do that IF YOU DECIDE NOT TO UTILIZE ANY DEFENSE.

Oh yeah? Which other class can do this? Remember this is from stealth and in less than a second so no chance for defensive measures.

No one is complaining that GC’s are squishy and that they die. It’s a fact of life. But there is such a thing known as counterplay. With skillful play you should be able to react and negate damage even if you’re a GC.

This burst from stealth doesn’t allow for any counterplay. And so I repeat – no one should be able to do this.

Well, it’s nice to see that bhagwad didn’t disappoint my hopes for this thread.

Dasorine and many other people have tried to tell you that the Thief burst can be countered, mostly with critical thinking. A competent player can counteract a stealth burst with traps, wells, or other ground-based effects; heavy aoe and/or condition damage; blocking; invulnerability; channeled skills (which continue to hit a thief after they have stealthed, revealing their position); shatter/chain burst; immobilize; daze; stun; and dodging. I run a GC Thief with 0 points in Vitality or Toughness, and I can counter Thief burst, even with slow reflexes, using a nifty skill called a “stunbreak.”

Also, you keep saying “which other class can do this?” That question is 3 kinds of pointless. If every class could do the same thing, I’d say screw Backstab, and I’d be out killing people with shatter burst. As far as ArenaNet has stated, the Thief class is working as intended. To illustrate that point, I will provide you with a few quotes (which I gave you in previous posts, but were conveniently ignored).

From an interview (http://kotaku.com/5780900/the-guild-wars-2-thief-is-a-rogue-like-none-other):
“The wise Thief player will know when to retreat and recharge.”
“…the Thief is built around hopping in-and-out of combat. If you don’t know when to back off, you’re going to die.”

From the update notes on December 14th:
“Thieves are the masters of mobility, stealth and high single target damage. They can be very fragile if you counter their stealth with area of effects or large stacks of conditions, but they trade this fragility in order to have some of the highest burst damage in the game.”

bhagwad.4281:

Many classes are able to dish out huge damage in one shot. But none of them have it quite so easy as a thief and no other class can do it that reliably.

I have no objections to losing to a thief in a fair fight. I’m a GC and if I make a mistake I die. I’ve never complained if I lose in a fair fight. But one shotting from stealth is not fair. No chance of counterplay, no chance to prepare.

And that is something no class should be able to do.

Pretty much all I’m hearing from you is that you, as a glass cannon, don’t like dying to burst glass cannons. It doesn’t matter that you didn’t even know the thief was there, that’s a technicality. You could have not noticed a lot of things that could kill you in a heartbeat. You getting mad just cause it was stealth really isn’t helping your cause.

If you are against being dropped in under 2 seconds and feel it’s a horrible way to die, then take some advice from billy mays here and grab some defence. If that’s still not good enough then roll a guard. That passive block completely negates any initial surprise burst a thief could do.

bhagwad.4281:

Yet the fact remains that I’ve never been one shotted by surprise by a warrior. If you were to tally up the number of time this has happened to anyone playing GW2, what do you think the ratio of warrior/thief one shotting would be?

I’d say it would be pretty kitten close

randomfightfan.4091:

Did they just drop you within 2 seconds? Did you just take 10k from a single backstab? If the answer is yes to any of these, then boy do I have the deal of you! It’s called TOUGHNESS!!! Toughness can be used by any class and is great for turning those 10k frowns into 6k laughs! You can wear toughness anywhere. It’s fashionable and dependable. And if you liked toughness, you’ll just LOVE what goes with it.

Introducing the always beautiful, the always pleasant, DODGING! Dodging is graceful and elegant. I have yet to see anyone not like dodging once they’ve really seen what she can do.

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If I read something like this, and then I read about all the “thieves are too squishy, we need more stealth and more dps” posts…I just want to laugh more at the later ones.

I’d kill for protection :P