This is essentially what even seasoned thieves go through. The current balance says that if a thief chooses to engage, be that contesting a point or anything that isnt +1, he’s going to melt. It isnt that the cap is high, its that thief is supposed to be anywhere people are not.
Then whoever is playing that way is a terrible thief.
Thief are suppose to go where he is needed most. Stealth to res allies. Stunlock vulnerable foes to focus them down. Chase and kill low hp targets. D/P Thief are built for that and it is a strong build.
If d/p were built for going to be somewhere people are not, they would be wearing soldier amulet and every single survivalibility trait.
I think it is safe to say just don’t play a thief in any game mode and expect to be on par with other classes. Somehow this class went from useful and dangerous to underwhelming and brittle over the course of a few big patches.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
I think it is safe to say just don’t play a thief in any game mode and expect to be on par with other classes. Somehow this class went from useful and dangerous to underwhelming and brittle over the course of a few big patches.
It’s not safe to say, one shouldn’t make general statements like “a class sucks” without overwhelming proof, thieves are fine if not great, i spvp all the time and solo dungeons. Whining like this sounds like a detrimental L2P issue. problem with meta is people need to be open to new ideas rather than pigeon holding themselves cause yea state of the game changes everyone has to deal with that.
spvp isn’t even about dueling its about covering your objectives
Thieves still excel at striking down vulnerable opponents and covering ground faster and more reliably than any other class that hasn’t changed. every class has their strengths and weaknesses you just need to align your playstyle and strategy with what tool (class in this case ) you are using
Srry for the repeated posts but would one not be better served asking
how does one overcome this hurdle" rather than trashing talking a class which dosn’t help anyone?
I think it is safe to say just don’t play a thief in any game mode and expect to be on par with other classes. Somehow this class went from useful and dangerous to underwhelming and brittle over the course of a few big patches.
It’s not safe to say, one shouldn’t make general statements like “a class sucks” without overwhelming proof, thieves are fine if not great, i spvp all the time and solo dungeons. Whining like this sounds like a detrimental L2P issue. problem with meta is people need to be open to new ideas rather than pigeon holding themselves cause yea state of the game changes everyone has to deal with that.
Wow taking out low HP targets (ranger could do it too from better range) and decapping (but of course not being sturdy enough to actually hold a point) and doing everything but actually fighting (unless it’s joining in some other fight but the onus of skill is on the outnumbered side it’s obviously easier to beat someone up if you have a buddy helping you) Face it, thief is underwhelming and if it were great you wouldn’t be seeing all of these threads complaining about how unviable thief is or at “best” debating if it’s viable. No one debates over an elementalist’s viability. Some teams even take four elementalists. If classes were so balanced then why would teams like this be meta?
It’s sad that European rules require at least three professions, as if to officially acknowledge that class stacking of this type is overpowered. The four ele meta should have been a serious wakeup call to Anet’s balancing team, but instead they’re focused on introducing some garbage camera mode where you can’t even mouse turn.
I think it is safe to say just don’t play a thief in any game mode and expect to be on par with other classes. Somehow this class went from useful and dangerous to underwhelming and brittle over the course of a few big patches.
It’s not safe to say, one shouldn’t make general statements like “a class sucks” without overwhelming proof, thieves are fine if not great, i spvp all the time and solo dungeons. Whining like this sounds like a detrimental L2P issue. problem with meta is people need to be open to new ideas rather than pigeon holding themselves cause yea state of the game changes everyone has to deal with that.
Wow taking out low HP targets (ranger could do it too from better range) and decapping (but of course not being sturdy enough to actually hold a point) and doing everything but actually fighting (unless it’s joining in some other fight but the onus of skill is on the outnumbered side it’s obviously easier to beat someone up if you have a buddy helping you) Face it, thief is underwhelming and if it were great you wouldn’t be seeing all of these threads complaining about how unviable thief is or at “best” debating if it’s viable. No one debates over an elementalist’s viability. Some teams even take four elementalists. If classes were so balanced then why would teams like this be meta?
It’s sad that European rules require at least three professions, as if to officially acknowledge that class stacking of this type is overpowered. The four ele meta should have been a serious wakeup call to Anet’s balancing team, but instead they’re focused on introducing some garbage camera mode where you can’t even mouse turn.
I think the point of the action camera was simply so that you didn’t have to hold down the mouse button and that you can still mouse turn it just frees up your left mouse click.
i didn’t just mean mean low hp targets when i said vulnerable targets. you can’t give all the stats in the world to a character class that has near unlimited stealth resources. thieves i believed are designed so that you understand their weakness and have to play smart or get wreaked unlike a class like guardian class that has heals and def up the whazzo. if your playing a thief not playing fair is kinda the flavor sneak-up, set the field before the battle, never say die just invis away instead of too entangled into the fight.
I’ve never felt weak or underpowered as a thief (abliet you can’t win every pvp match) and shadow-stepping between points gives you a huge mobility advantage if you feel you can’t fight alone you can always regroup with teammates.
what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.
“what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.”
Simply better defense. Despite being ranged and having pets rangers have better base HP than thieves and sometimes even damage too, and not only is it not positional, it has much better range too.
Thief lacks the AoE ranged damage fields that ranger, elementalist, mesmer, guardian, and warrior (via longbow like ranger) have combined with positional requirements for damage. The lack of multi-target viability is itself a handicap that needs something to balance it out, especially combined with too little base HP where conditions trivially melt through.
Considering the introduction of reveal thief needs some massive buffs to compensate for it.
my heart broke a little when they silently stole away our ricochet shot on pistol for seemingly no reason other than not knowing where to put it in the new trait refresh lol.
Daredevil is supposed to address the multi-target viability but again that’s going to be melee we’ll c how that goes. during the beta it took a while to get used to but i at least see the potential.
The additional emphasis on dodge roll and the holy grail that is brawlers defense (daredevil skill) do offer some good defensive options that isn’t hiding lol.
as for non-elite spec-ed thieves i would say that GoT (Guild of…) is underestimated and shadow trap(ST + improvisation= ez 20 stacks of might) as an offensive massive dps boost is under utilized. As for defense i would say picking the right opponent to steal from…but that would be in a perfect world
A Glass Cannon that cannot punch through defenses.
What good is it to have the mobility to chase a target down if we don’t have a decent shot at killing them? It’s like a wasp chasing someone with a fly swatter. We may sting, but we’re going to die.
I want to trade what little sustainability I have for lethality, not mobility. Dropping the mobility doesn’t make me more sustainable or lethal. Besides, it’s not like our mobility is THAT superior.
And remember, being “deadly” in single combat means that there will be a dead opponent. Running away or resetting does not constitute as being deadly. Killing an AFK player doesn’t count.
Again, a Glass Cannon that cannot punch through defenses. It seems the only purpose of having a Glass Cannon is to fight another Glass Cannon. If that’s true, then why even build to be a Glass Cannon? Oh yes, because the Thief can’t build to be anything else! At least not in PvP… where killing an opponent on point is very important… and Stealth won’t even contest a point.
what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.
id like to have an unblockable buff on my thief dunno tho on what it should trigger to be usefull but not op
what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.
id like to have an unblockable buff on my thief dunno tho on what it should trigger to be usefull but not op
When the defining attributes of a class are “bring a friend” to kill someone (as in great +1 capability) and one weaponset has one skill that has great vertical mobility (while still being a crappy weapon otherwise), something has gone wrong.
The thief as it is today is a shadow of its former self. It isn’t a L2P issue. It is maining a thief for nearly 2k hours in the game across 3 years of play and experiencing its significant decline.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Guys. You can’t force people to run berserker/marauder.
It’s not that thief was nerfed (although it was to a degree) it’s that people run runes and amulets that allow them to sustain your burst. If a thief can’t one hit ko they can’t do much of anything against a heavy or a soldier/celestial 1v1.
Sustained dps like wells or meteor shower is where it is at for killing heavies.
Thieves and mesmers are for ganking people who run glass canon.
That being if you want to have thieves be a little less futile to those well defended then increase the amount of unblockable behavior.
Add to hidden killer that skills from stealth are also unblockable. Add to assassin’s signet an unblockable charge of 5. That would help a lot if you could use steal to interrupt a shelter. Remove the damage on scorpion wire.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
There’s a lot of stuff that is unblockable already in the meta, and I’m not a fan of adding more, but yeah, having some of thief wouldn’t be bad, especially since Guardians are pretty high on our hard counter list.
what do thieves need to be more balanced in the eyes of all the nay-sayers and dont say more dps cause a race for whoever has the highest dps stick is gunna break the game.
id like to have an unblockable buff on my thief dunno tho on what it should trigger to be usefull but not op
An elite skill on a 90 second cooldown perhaps?
well for me it would be enough as i play mainly wvw and while roamig the encounters r not as frequent as in pvp.
but it would be weak compared to reaper for example 4-9s unblockable on 23-35s cd or the signet of might a warrior has .. also revenants phase traversal with no cd – unless the skill does something really cool apart from unblockable
Guys. You can’t force people to run berserker/marauder.
It’s not that thief was nerfed (although it was to a degree) it’s that people run runes and amulets that allow them to sustain your burst. If a thief can’t one hit ko they can’t do much of anything against a heavy or a soldier/celestial 1v1.
Sustained dps like wells or meteor shower is where it is at for killing heavies.
Thieves and mesmers are for ganking people who run glass canon.
That’s my entire point. What is the point of being a Glass Cannon if you can’t kill anything else but other Glass Cannons? There is none… except the Thief can’t build to do anything else decently.
That’s fine… IF the risk of being a Glass Cannon was offset by the reward of extreme lethality.
A bunker build should not mean that I, as a Glass Cannon, cannot break through his defenses. In fact, I should be the only one who can do so quickly. A bruiser build should be deathly afraid of me. Another Glass cannon shouldn’t worry so much about me because he is just as capable as I am… and I’m also not really any more dangerous to him than any other build is.
Again, I’m speaking about a Glass Cannon in general. The only reason it applies so heavily to the Thief is because it’s the only thing a Thief can build for.
I’m playing d/d venom condi thief, p/p and s/d. yet i’m destroying people and win most of my games left and right..
Of course my opponent must be bad right?
If you are winning most of your matches with a thief, you would probably win more with a different class. That is the general point. It isn’t that players cannot win with the Thief it is that the same player in a different class would win more and do so with easier wins.
Most players left in this class are enthusiasts that prefer the thief game play. Munchkin players looking for the most optimal way to win skip right past this class for a reason. Most new players are run off quickly by the complete lack of forgiveness to mistakes in fights.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Ok I do not play thief but came here to get an update if thieves arent in a bad spot and lets see some real pvp and pve videos of the build diversity so many claim to have. Proof or it didnt happen, and im not saying either but really people where is the proof?
Guys. You can’t force people to run berserker/marauder.
It’s not that thief was nerfed (although it was to a degree) it’s that people run runes and amulets that allow them to sustain your burst. If a thief can’t one hit ko they can’t do much of anything against a heavy or a soldier/celestial 1v1.
Sustained dps like wells or meteor shower is where it is at for killing heavies.
Thieves and mesmers are for ganking people who run glass canon.
That’s my entire point. What is the point of being a Glass Cannon if you can’t kill anything else but other Glass Cannons? There is none… except the Thief can’t build to do anything else decently.
That’s fine… IF the risk of being a Glass Cannon was offset by the reward of extreme lethality.
A bunker build should not mean that I, as a Glass Cannon, cannot break through his defenses. In fact, I should be the only one who can do so quickly. A bruiser build should be deathly afraid of me. Another Glass cannon shouldn’t worry so much about me because he is just as capable as I am… and I’m also not really any more dangerous to him than any other build is.
Again, I’m speaking about a Glass Cannon in general. The only reason it applies so heavily to the Thief is because it’s the only thing a Thief can build for.
A glass cannon necro and elementalist can kill heavies. A glass cannon thief can kill a glass cannon elementalist or necro.
It is about the method of delivering dps.
Your version of glass cannon existed and it was sharply destroyed. But as a side effect only thief and mesmer can successively run berserker because of the consequences of what you want to return to being meta.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
A glass cannon necro and elementalist can kill heavies. A glass cannon thief can kill a glass cannon elementalist or necro.
But why can a Glass Cannon Thief not kill a bunker also?
Why can a Glass Cannon Thief not go 1v1 against a Bruiser build?
The Thief’s offense is based on bursting a single target. Why should a Glass Cannon Thief not be able to burst down any single target no matter the build?
I’m not looking to enter team fights. If there is more than one enemy, a Thief should be at a disadvantage. There is too much AoE flying around. But the ability to focus on a single target… why shouldn’t a Glass Cannon Thief be able to hold his own in that?
From what I can tell, you’re saying that we’re playing a game of “Rock, Paper, Scissors.” We’re the paper, but there are no rocks to be found, only scissors.
A glass cannon necro and elementalist can kill heavies. A glass cannon thief can kill a glass cannon elementalist or necro.
But why can a Glass Cannon Thief not kill a bunker also?
Why can a Glass Cannon Thief not go 1v1 against a Bruiser build?
The Thief’s offense is based on bursting a single target. Why should a Glass Cannon Thief not be able to burst down any single target no matter the build?
I’m not looking to enter team fights. If there is more than one enemy, a Thief should be at a disadvantage. There is too much AoE flying around. But the ability to focus on a single target… why shouldn’t a Glass Cannon Thief be able to hold his own in that?
From what I can tell, you’re saying that we’re playing a game of “Rock, Paper, Scissors.” We’re the paper, but there are no rocks to be found, only scissors.
Because the game mode of PvP is based on time.
With no points to fight over, or rotations to perform:
Glass cannon kills bruiser, bruiser kills bunker, bunker survives glass cannon.
The reality is bruiser stalls cannon enough to produce a 2v1, and glass cannons out rotate bunkers.
In stronghold the tables are turned. Glass cannons are the kings of the defense lane. And support bunkers the offense lane. Bruisers are less useful to the process.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
the only problem i found with my thief is that itst hard to play with when my ping goes above 110 while with other class which are more forgiving you still can
The reality is bruiser stalls cannon enough to produce a 2v1, and glass cannons out rotate bunkers.
It seems as though time should favor the Glass Cannon in that case. In a Glass Cannon vs. a Bruiser matchup, someone should be dead in very short order. Either the Glass Cannon kills the Bruiser simply because it is so powerful, or the Bruiser kills the Glass Cannon because of the fragility.
If a Bruiser can stall a Glass Cannon long enough for a teammate to arrive, then what hope does another Bruiser have to go 1v1 with first Bruiser? There should be nearly a stalemate between the two. But do they not go man to man many times?
The problem with the Thief is it seems to be lacking the damage of a true Glass Cannon, yet it also lacks the sustainability of a Bruiser/Bunker. It simply cannot punch through defenses quickly enough, nor can it withstand hits. It’s almost as though it has been tailor made to run away from combat instead of engaging in it.
The reality is bruiser stalls cannon enough to produce a 2v1, and glass cannons out rotate bunkers.
It seems as though time should favor the Glass Cannon in that case. In a Glass Cannon vs. a Bruiser matchup, someone should be dead in very short order. Either the Glass Cannon kills the Bruiser simply because it is so powerful, or the Bruiser kills the Glass Cannon because of the fragility.
If a Bruiser can stall a Glass Cannon long enough for a teammate to arrive, then what hope does another Bruiser have to go 1v1 with first Bruiser? There should be nearly a stalemate between the two. But do they not go man to man many times?
The problem with the Thief is it seems to be lacking the damage of a true Glass Cannon, yet it also lacks the sustainability of a Bruiser/Bunker. It simply cannot punch through defenses quickly enough, nor can it withstand hits. It’s almost as though it has been tailor made to run away from combat instead of engaging in it.
Bruisers don’t really kill each other all that well. Shoutbow vs d/d ele is proof of this.
But pvp is also a numbers game. Thief helps with the unbalancing.
“Kentigem”-chief. Born cycle of Dusk. Wyld Hunt:
Learn as much mending and medical info as possible so that it can be added to the Dream.
Become the first Chief of Mending and guide the newly awaken as well as those who want to learn.
