Guild Wars 2

I never see any why is this as it’s your best group buff

The radius of venom sharing is only 300. If it were higher, it might be used more often.

Also we have way too many other good utility skills that making a venom build means giving up our best abilities.

Yea venoms I will run occasionally depending on situation spider venom is good against bunker types because of the heal reduction. I will usually switch out Shadow signet for 1 venom either devourer or spider venom but most of the time that spot goes to caltrops honestly. You dont really need the venom reduction trait imo since you get 30 secs to use it once activated. So its really a small cooldown in my opinion anyway. To run aura you have to be 30 in shadow arts and you give up heal while in stealth which is much better than the aura. It has its places sometimes but yea.

It’s a great group buff in theory, but in practice the buff range is so small that you literally have to run up next to an ally before you press your venom. Realistically you will give max 2-3 players your venoms, but most by far you end up sharing with one other player. Imo it’s best used with a smaller group on vent where you can call them to cluster up on you before a share.

That and you give up a heck of a lot of single player utility and group support that actually works like shadow refuge.

Sarrow.2785:

Imo it’s best used with a smaller group on vent where you can call them to cluster up on you before a share.

This. Thieves that run with small coordinated groups do run venom share builds. Venom share is pretty much all-or-nothing, and entails a major build rework if you want to emphasize it. Thieves that can’t guarantee getting the most out of it are better off not using it. You’re not likely to see a thief use a venom build in a pickup group, farming open-world PvE, solo roaming, or in a WvW zerg, which honestly is the vast majority of time you’re seeing other thieves, so it makes sense that you don’t see them use it.

As a Venomous Aura (VA) S/P build, I feel that the Fractals explain the VA situation the best. If I get a Fractal group that’s mostly melee oriented, we burn through content like a hot knife through butter. We’re Basilisk interrupting, self-healing, dps debuffing, and doing a noticeable amount of extra dps. Yet if I get one of the more common mixes of ranged players who like to scatter all over like roaches when the light comes on, then I’m relatively worthless. Self-buffs are nice, but I’m lucky to be able to buff x1 other player at the same time. This results in no real added benefit for the group and I’ve had to invest a ton of spec points to achieve that result.

Yes, running a VA spec is a god send for the informal zergs that run around kill god priests in Cursed Shore. With that kind of mix, I’m always bound to get enough melee players to make my spec more than worth it. (In those situations, I never see anyone else playing a VA spec.) But when you get to instanced group content, a VA spec is very hard to gauge. You need the right kind of player group to make it viable, which you can only guarantee with pre-made groups.

Wiser with Age.3714:

Yes, running a VA spec is a god send for the informal zergs that run around kill god priests in Cursed Shore. With that kind of mix, I’m always bound to get enough melee players to make my spec more than worth it. (In those situations, I never see anyone else playing a VA spec.)

In this case it has nothing to do with the build’s overall effectiveness but more to do with the fact that going anything but high-power AE damage is going to negatively impact your ability to tag for loot.

So if this is only viable in limited circumstances, then what is the current group oriented build?

It takes 30 points into shadow arts to get. Nice to have but so is the other option if you put points into that line. There are also quite a few nice options in shadow arts that help to survive.

Short buff range.
Bugged Vemon traits.
Relying on a group that does the job mostly without you, after u gave them the Vemons.
No Utility slots left for escapes.
No Stun breaks.

In addition to the unwieldy range of the trait, the fact reamins that venoms, like traps, just don’t pack enough bang to justify what you’re losing to stack them.

If traits existed that lowered the venom cooldown by 50%, allowed traps to be castable twice, or other meaningful buffs that made taking multiples worth losing skills like shadow refuge, roll for initiative, or caltrops you’d surely see more people running a venom share spec, as well as see players running more venom and trap specs.

While it’s still an effective build, it’s unpopular because its effectiveness is far too narrow and specialized for the way combat actually works in GW2. You’ve got a build that only effectively supports clustered combatants that engage in a series of short fights with lengthy downtime between. This does happen, but the problem is that every other tool and spec avaliable to the thief also works equally as well in these situations while remaining viable in protracted combat, combat with allies at variant ranges, solo, etc.

Even though respeccing is cheap, nobody likes to constant dump silver in to the trainer and change armor.

Well all the criticism about Venom Sharing are true in that it is a very gimmicky build.

My biggest issue with it though is the entire concept of Venoms and their redundancy.

Why pick a dedicated Venom skill if your Necromancer/Thief/Elementalist are already constantly applying Weakness/Poison/Chill/Vulnerability to the target.

I mean I see their value in a solo environment, but in a group situation most Conditions are up 80% of the time. Hell, Dagger auto-attacks alone maintain Poison, Weakness and Vulnerability if built accordingly.

The only times I could see a need for such builds is with either Devourer Venom or Basilisk Venom. But then again, that’s extremely gimmicky, Especially once you consider what you have to give up to get there.

Tulisin.6945:

Wiser with Age.3714:

Yes, running a VA spec is a god send for the informal zergs that run around kill god priests in Cursed Shore. With that kind of mix, I’m always bound to get enough melee players to make my spec more than worth it. (In those situations, I never see anyone else playing a VA spec.)

In this case it has nothing to do with the build’s overall effectiveness but more to do with the fact that going anything but high-power AE damage is going to negatively impact your ability to tag for loot.

Umm… I think that we’re miscommunicating with each other. As a cardinal rule, I never run Plinx in a zerg because I prefer to operate with a S/P spec. My point was that running a VA spec is immensely helpful to taking down boss mobs like the Priest of Melandru or any of the boss mobs as you’re charging up into Arah. When you’ve got a mix of various melee types clustering around a boss mob that isn’t going to die in a few seconds, the AoE buff benefits are a game changer. Glass cannon dps builds are now getting free healing from attacking. The damage spike from instantly getting x25 Vulnerability stacks is always nice. As if that isn’t enough, we’ll lock down the boss mob temporarily through a barrage of Basilisk Venom procs.

You can run a successful VA build using only x3 Venom powers, which still leaves a skill slot open (which I fill with Shadow Refuge). Running x4 Venom powers really isn’t neccessary. Yet as we’ve basically all agreed, a VA spec is limited. If you’re a ranged Thief spec, then you need all of your ranged players to cluster together. Or if you’re a melee Thief spec, then you need other players to charge into close quarters with you. While the potential benefits for a VA build are large, it is a very narrow spec and it requires the right circumstances to make it viable.

And when he’s down, sit down and wait for the next Orr boss event?

Only useful in a siege….. granted it’s broken there. Thief = Mobile Ram that doesn’t need supply.

Odaman.8359:

Only useful in a siege….. granted it’s broken there. Thief = Mobile Ram that doesn’t need supply.

1 Thief + 4 players in 300 range < 1/2 flame ram.

Its true that the damage is not reduced. But its not as powerfull as a flame ram.

The only good use of VA is to synergy with the Leeching Venom build and get a very good burst of armor ignoring damage on demand, provided your allies don’t waste their stacks.

You can even make it happen solo with Ogre runes, Ambush trap and Thief"s Guild to make your own allies on the spot. It’s surprisingly effective against objects with HP bars too since life leech attacks work on them. If you are built for Power (which you should to improve LL effect), you get that way the fastest treb burst build thief can get by far.

With high power, no healing power and leeching venoms you get a bonus damage and heal of 380 per hit.
Spider venom lasts for 6 hits traited.

6 hits * 380 heal/hit = 2,280 heal
6 hits * 380 dmg/hit * 5 players = 11,400 dmg

This may look good. but

• You need 30 points in a full defensive trait line + 2 major traits.
• All players need to stay in a 300 range
• 36 seconds cooldown when traited
• The heal is not superiour to other aoe heals (amount of heal, recharge, range)
• Utility for poison? we have a shortbow poison field…
• Other venoms last for at least 2 less hits.
• The damage may look much. But other classes/builds have more dmg on a 6 second cd weaponskill.
• Dmg scales only little with power (might wont buff the dmg that much)
• Its fix damage. So it wont benefit from crit, vulnerability stacks or suffer from enemy armor.

I think skale venom would be the best for a group.
With venom share its up to 20 vulnerability stacks for 6 seconds and 38 sec cooldown when traited. IF everyone is within a 300 radius AND hits the target. So its more like 12 stacks.
12 stacks * 6 seconds / 38 seconds would result in 1.9 effective stacks / percent dmg increase.
You’d get the same result with a warrior using the first 2 skills from the auto attack chain every 8 seconds.
A warrior using the said 2 skills every 5 seconds would even beat the best the thief could get (4 players in 300 range, venom share, venoms last 1 extra hit and no hit misses)

crouze.3078:

With high power, no healing power and leeching venoms you get a bonus damage and heal of 380 per hit.
Spider venom lasts for 6 hits traited.

6 hits * 380 heal/hit = 2.280 heal
6 hits * 380 dmg/hit * 5 players = 11.400 dmg

This may look good. but

• You need 30 points in a full defensive trait line + 2 major traits.
• All players need to stay in a 300 range
• 36 seconds cooldown when traited
• The heal is not superiour to other aoe heals (amount of heal, recharge, range)
• Utility for poison? we have a shortbow poison field…
• Other venoms last for at least 2 less hits.
• The damage may look much. But other classes/builds have more dmg on a 6 second cd weaponskill.
• Dmg scales only little with power (might wont buff the dmg that much)
• Its fix damage. So it wont benefit from crit, vulnerability stacks or suffer from enemy armor.

Or I could lay down short bow 4’s combo field for 0 traits and do more poison then I could sharing it with venoms.

Or everyone could simply use “Skale Venom” and apply more vulnerability then what venom sharing could.

Mobs are immune to the other Venoms.

Daecollo.9578:

Or I could lay down short bow 4’s combo field for 0 traits and do more poison then I could sharing it with venoms.

thats why i wrote

Utility for poison? we have a shortbow poison field…

I edited something about the skale vulnerability to my other post.

Its just says: Warrior greatsword attacks do more vulnerability / time

Venom-share rogue is an end-game build, for when you run with a coordinated group. The sheer amount of healing (usually around 400+ PER attack, that means 2400 for popping spider venom). Tons of might bonuses to the party. Skale venom during time warp. Basalisk venom gives your group so much more survivability during bosses. And to top it all off you can go Carrion P/D and have tons of flexability and DPS.

It doesn’t have more DPS then a full dps thief. It doesn’t have as much healing as a water ele. But it has the best RATIO for end game content. You just can’t beat it.

OH BUT 300 range means its pretty much worthless so, cross your fingers for a range buff