I play a guardian and thief mainly Guard for PvE stuffs and thief for PvP mainly. When I look at my guardian’s utilities and my thief’s utilities my guardian has 1 heal skill that passive removes 1 condition every 10seconds 2 if traited. And 3 utilities that cure conditions Purging flames, CoP, and Smite condition. Purging Flames can remove more than just one if I dance around the edges of it. Trait wise Radiance allows you when activating a signet to cure a condition 20pts in. Valor gives a passive condition cure every 10 seconds for 10pts in. 30 pts into Honor you gain pure voice heaving shouts convert conditions into boons. 20 pts in virtues you can have VoR heal 25% more and Cure 3 conditions on yourself and your allies on 45 seconds CD. So 4/5 trait lines gives the guardian some access to condition cleansing.
My thief on the other hand utility wise has 2 heal skills that remove conditions only one of those removes a damaging conditions and it is on a 30second cool down. And then there is Signet of agility and shadow step. Shadow step removes 3 conditions upon using shadow return, and signet of agility is cures ‘X’ amount of conditions based on allies around you. I rarely see it cure more than one even in big group fights when other people are in melee range. Trait wise we have shadow’s embraced and pain response. 2/5 trait lines that have some sort of condition cleansing.
Let’s take a quick look at element lists as well
Healing unities that cure conditions 1: ether renewal.
Regular utilities that cure conditions: 2 Cleansing fire removes 3 and Signet of water cures one condition every 10 seconds.
Trait wise they have 3 different traits in two different trees that remove conditions. Each time they attune to water, cast regeneration on their allies, dodge roll while attuned to water.
Weapon skills: Guardian has 2 weapon skills that remove conditions: Torch 5 while it does help the guardian it does help the group, and trident 2.
Thief has 1 weapon skill that costs 5 initiatives to use but the thief ends up not doing a lot of damage.
Elementalist has 2 weapon skills all while water attuned both dagger and staff skill five.
Thief Condition cleansing skills are all on 30second or more cool down minus the 10 points spent in shadow arts. Just sucks that we have to spend so points in Shadow Arts in order to get some decent cleansing.
I do not wish nerfs upon any class I just wish we had a little bit better condition removal like 30 points in deadly arts makes it so thief venoms now also transfer conditions to the target each time the venom is applied. It might add tad bit more venom share thieves in a group setting. Also maybe adding a new utility skill like “Stolen wizard’s robe. Immune to all condition damage for 5 seconds. 60second cooldown.” I only used Eles, Guards, and thieves because we have the same base HP.
Do we have enough condition cleansing?
Try playing a ranger, stuck standing in a healing spring for decent condition cures. Thieves have it quite good with a cure on a common ability, stealth, for only a 10 point trait.
i’ll be honest, i didn’t bother reading right now.
but i don’t think thieves have good cleansing, at all. you can cleanse one condition every 3 seconds on stealth when specced right (and you’ll most likely spec it), you can waste your stunbreaker for 3 cleanses (shadowstep), you can bring a signet that will only be worth a kitten if your whole team is walking around together, and you got your heals, which cure specific conditions.
the thief that needs decent cleansing pretty much needs cleanse on stealth and hide in shadows, which you might notice is using your heal as your cleanse.
I’d like more non-stealth-related cleansing options. I use a sigil of generosity to offset my build’s lack of condition removal, but it’s still a glaring weakness. Would be nice to see Sigil of Agility get a buff, especially now that they’re adding new condition types while my cleanse skills tend to choose the most useless conditions to clear first.
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
For each nearby ally.
So, one condition for us roamers. Five for zergers. Bleh.
Is this thread for real?
Playing the engineer “as intended” is simply not viable.
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
For each nearby ally.
So, one condition for us roamers. Five for zergers. Bleh.
My understanding is that it’s a group condition removal, and it removes 1 condition for each nearby ally so it removes 1 condition for you and anyone nearby. But yes the wording can be interpreted both ways.
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
For each nearby ally.
So, one condition for us roamers. Five for zergers. Bleh.My understanding is that it’s a group condition removal, and it removes 1 condition for each nearby ally so it removes 1 condition for you and anyone nearby. But yes the wording can be interpreted both ways.
I believe it might be both, actually. I’ll have to test it later on. It’s still a relatively new addition to my build, so I haven’t really paid all that much attention to it in group situations. For solo play, it’s pretty much just an “oh kitten” button.
From the wiki:
Passive: Grants increased precision.
Active: Refill endurance and cure a condition for each nearby ally.
Note: Endurance replenishment and condition removal affect nearby allies.
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
For each nearby ally.
So, one condition for us roamers. Five for zergers. Bleh.My understanding is that it’s a group condition removal, and it removes 1 condition for each nearby ally so it removes 1 condition for you and anyone nearby. But yes the wording can be interpreted both ways.
the wording is ambiguous, but it only cleanses you, and for each ally close to you, you get an extra cleanse.
so yeah, kinda crappy on roamers.
signet of agility only removes 1 condition .
For each nearby ally.
So, one condition for us roamers. Five for zergers. Bleh.My understanding is that it’s a group condition removal, and it removes 1 condition for each nearby ally so it removes 1 condition for you and anyone nearby. But yes the wording can be interpreted both ways.
I believe it might be both, actually. I’ll have to test it later on. It’s still a relatively new addition to my build, so I haven’t really paid all that much attention to it in group situations. For solo play, it’s pretty much just an “oh kitten” button.
From the wiki:
Passive: Grants increased precision.
Active: Refill endurance and cure a condition for each nearby ally.
Note: Endurance replenishment and condition removal affect nearby allies.
So the note says it removes a condition for you and every nearby ally. So I was right?
Edit: Took a look at discussion. Confirms my own persona anecotal experience. It’s a group condition removal, but only removes 1 condition for everyone nearby including yourself.
If anyone wants to do further testing though, feel free. It’s just it’s NEVER removed more than 1 condition for me iirc.
(edited by Excalibur.9748)
It also fills their endurance.
It also fills their endurance.
Good to know. It’s a solid skill to bring for dungeons.
Signet of Agility is one of the few group based utilities we have, it does NOT cure more than one condition EVER. but it will refill endurance AND cure ONE condition for your entire party (or yourself and 4 random zergers if thats your thing)
As to the topic at hand, if your trait for stealth cleansing, and run d/d, s/d or especially d/p, we have pretty good cleanse, close to the best. If you are not spec’d into shadow arts (or spec SA for venom share not stealth) then we have some of the worst cleansing in game, imho
Signet of Agility is one of the few group based utilities we have, it does NOT cure more than one condition EVER. but it will refill endurance AND cure ONE condition for your entire party (or yourself and 4 random zergers if thats your thing)
As to the topic at hand, if your trait for stealth cleansing, and run d/d, s/d or especially d/p, we have pretty good cleanse, close to the best. If you are not spec’d into shadow arts (or spec SA for venom share not stealth) then we have some of the worst cleansing in game, imho
If you don’t spec SA you will be using S/D most likely. Sword #2 is a spammable conditional removal and you still have hide in shadows.
Conditions has not really bothered me w/o SA. I did bring signet of agility for the living story dungeon and it has helped a lot! And I’m sure it helped my teammates as well.
Signet of Agility is one of the few group based utilities we have, it does NOT cure more than one condition EVER. but it will refill endurance AND cure ONE condition for your entire party (or yourself and 4 random zergers if thats your thing)
As to the topic at hand, if your trait for stealth cleansing, and run d/d, s/d or especially d/p, we have pretty good cleanse, close to the best. If you are not spec’d into shadow arts (or spec SA for venom share not stealth) then we have some of the worst cleansing in game, imho
If you don’t spec SA you will be using S/D most likely. Sword #2 is a spammable conditional removal and you still have hide in shadows.
Conditions has not really bothered me w/o SA.
A necro or engi can easily put 6 conditions on you in the blink of an eye, you telling me you spam 2 12 times to clear up? the single cleanse on sword return is a decent side effect, but its not great cleansing as it costs too much init to keep yourself mobile and free of DoT
Signet of Agility is one of the few group based utilities we have, it does NOT cure more than one condition EVER. but it will refill endurance AND cure ONE condition for your entire party (or yourself and 4 random zergers if thats your thing)
As to the topic at hand, if your trait for stealth cleansing, and run d/d, s/d or especially d/p, we have pretty good cleanse, close to the best. If you are not spec’d into shadow arts (or spec SA for venom share not stealth) then we have some of the worst cleansing in game, imho
If you don’t spec SA you will be using S/D most likely. Sword #2 is a spammable conditional removal and you still have hide in shadows.
Conditions has not really bothered me w/o SA.
A necro or engi can easily put 6 conditions on you in the blink of an eye, you telling me you spam 2 12 times to clear up? the single cleanse on sword return is a decent side effect, but its not great cleansing as it costs too much init to keep yourself mobile and free of DoT
I’ve never really had trouble with engie or necro. After the recent buff to necro yes I’ve lost to a few necros, I’m still refining my gameplay vs buffed necros right now. But engie is still easy. I can kill them with practically full HP.
I keep forgetting that sword has a built-in cleanse. Man, if I had some kind of condition cleanse/transfer on Body Shot or Unload, I’d be a pretty happy roamer. Then I could ditch the generosity sigil for something more fun.
Err.. I find if a thief is worth their kitten and some times even if they are not they are not bothered by conditions really. This is coming from a condition mesmer, they have far to much access it to it and it doesn’t cost them to much to get to it. since I rely on high condition burst if they stealth at all with their condition wipes on stealth I cant really compete.
PRAISE GEESUS
Err.. I find if a thief is worth their kitten and some times even if they are not they are not bothered by conditions really. This is coming from a condition mesmer, they have far to much access it to it and it doesn’t cost them to much to get to it. since I rely on high condition burst if they stealth at all with their condition wipes on stealth I cant really compete.
the condis wipe one at a time, every 3 seconds. a necro condi burst will still destroy a stealthed thief that relies only on stealth cleanse.
plus, condi was never meant to be a burst thing, but rather sustained damage over time.
Err.. I find if a thief is worth their kitten and some times even if they are not they are not bothered by conditions really. This is coming from a condition mesmer, they have far to much access it to it and it doesn’t cost them to much to get to it. since I rely on high condition burst if they stealth at all with their condition wipes on stealth I cant really compete.
the condis wipe one at a time, every 3 seconds. a necro condi burst will still destroy a stealthed thief that relies only on stealth cleanse.
plus, condi was never meant to be a burst thing, but rather sustained damage over time.
That depends on how you use it, I do a small amount of conditions, short duration but sky high damage and large stacks, I think that qualify as burst. You said it was never meant to be used that way, but that doesn’t mean it cant. And since it relies on a single condition for that damage a small but often wipe that is stupid effective against it.
PRAISE GEESUS
This is a joke thread right? Who is above thief is cleansing right now? Necro and guardian and ele. Lets not play games here thief is fine when it comes to condition cleansing. Any short comings you see are from the vacuum because most classes aren’t better off.
You know what let me sum this up much quicker you will never ever get a buff here not ever. If you can not handle conditions as thief you are GC or a bad kittening thief. /Thread
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
This is a joke thread right? Who is above thief is cleansing right now? Necro and guardian and ele. Lets not play games here thief is fine when it comes to condition cleansing. Any short comings you see are from the vacuum because most classes aren’t better off.
You know what let me sum this up much quicker you will never ever get a buff here not ever. If you can not handle conditions as thief you are GC or a bad kittening thief. /Thread
This. Although Necro and their condition transfers don’t frighten me because I only do two conditions and both of them are easy to cleanse.
I actually think thieves have more condition cleanse than they need.
When traited it’s 2 everytime you use CND/BP HS so long as you wait the stealth duration
I play a condition bunker (not BM) ranger. I do not think thieves are OP at all (although the troll builds are really annoying).
There are some thief builds that I can just burst down so fast that they drop before they know what hit them or have to escape. These are the same builds that seem to be really dangerous and bursty—I can’t slip up or they burn me down fast even at 2150 toughness.
Then there are other builds that seem to drop my conditions before they do much damage at all (upon entering stealth). These builds seem to do less damage and the fights are more protracted and fun (although I rarely ever kill/defeat such builds).
So, from an outsider condition removal for thieves seems balanced. Some builds can get excellent condition removal, but perhaps tradeoff some burst damage.
I play a condition bunker (not BM) ranger. I do not think thieves are OP at all (although the troll builds are really annoying).
There are some thief builds that I can just burst down so fast that they drop before they know what hit them or have to escape. These are the same builds that seem to be really dangerous and bursty—I can’t slip up or they burn me down fast even at 2150 toughness.
Then there are other builds that seem to drop my conditions before they do much damage at all (upon entering stealth). These builds seem to do less damage and the fights are more protracted and fun (although I rarely ever kill/defeat such builds).
So, from an outsider condition removal for thieves seems balanced. Some builds can get excellent condition removal, but perhaps tradeoff some burst damage.
That is a pretty accurate assessment, stealth builds can go full burst, or trade some of that damage for condi removal and/or healing. The problem is non-stealth builds, no matter what you trade, if you dont have stealth you have terrible condi removal, thief non-stealth builds need some adjustments in this and in healing
Err.. I find if a thief is worth their kitten and some times even if they are not they are not bothered by conditions really. This is coming from a condition mesmer, they have far to much access it to it and it doesn’t cost them to much to get to it. since I rely on high condition burst if they stealth at all with their condition wipes on stealth I cant really compete.
the condis wipe one at a time, every 3 seconds. a necro condi burst will still destroy a stealthed thief that relies only on stealth cleanse.
plus, condi was never meant to be a burst thing, but rather sustained damage over time.
That depends on how you use it, I do a small amount of conditions, short duration but sky high damage and large stacks, I think that qualify as burst. You said it was never meant to be used that way, but that doesn’t mean it cant. And since it relies on a single condition for that damage a small but often wipe that is stupid effective against it.
i’m not talking really high DoT. i’m talking “you got 2 seconds to cleanse or you’re dead. BTW you’re stuck on fear” necros. they’ve been popular lately.
I actually think thieves have more condition cleanse than they need.
When traited it’s 2 everytime you use CND/BP HS so long as you wait the stealth duration
You have to trait quite considerably, first to get the trait and then some to increase stealth duration, or add another C&D to get the round of stealth you need tactically.