Guild Wars 2

Just been scanning the forums and it looks like everyone and there dog is either using DD or DP.

Is there a particular reason that no one uses double pistols as their main set up. I’m only level 51 at the moment working towards a dual pistol stealth heavy build as show below.

http://en.gw2codex.com/build/17325

Can you guys explain to me why using dual pistols seems to be frowned upon. So far I’ve had no problem taking on anything in PVE, I seem to be very survivable and do a good deal of damage. 1 on 1 in PVP I hold my own and very rarely die.

So guys clue me in why is PP so bad?

Wow no one. I guess double pistols really are unpopular.

How is it even stealth based? You don’t have any skills (except for your healing skill) that stealths you, or am I missing something?

I used PP a lot ( tho atm im trying out D/P ). I figure it gets a bad rep because that Lowell guy from Super Squad said he didn’t like it because of other classes abilities to reflect projectiles in TPvP. So all the lemmings just assumed its bad. I think it could be tweaked a little more but Unload does some real good single target damage. Works really good in WvWvW for burst. That build you linked is kinda weird.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fYEQJAaVlYmaP3dS8E95Ex2DgqTe6zgsjt/AXB;TgAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1A – This build worked really well for me in WvWvW. I like to be in the front lines shooting em with my pistols and the 15 points in acrobatics, shadow refuge, 2 more dodges with withdraw and roll for initiative give a lot of survivability and let you fall back rather quickly. Shadow signet and Agility signet work really well too with the 25% run speed and agility signet use restores endurance giving you a ton of dodges on demand.

If it had infiltrators strike functionality we would use it. The 1 & 2 don’t do enough for a lot of situations meaning p/p would be the off set preferably and I prefer d/d so I can get stealth and more evade or shortbow in pve instead along with my sword pistol main set

I use PP occasionally. I guess the main problem is the only useful skill it has you can get many other ways and still keep AoE, Stealth and DPS. Unload doesn’t do much more than straight auto attack over the same amount of time with Short Bow.

Lowest damage, no utility, no AoE no shadow step, no stealth, one blind.

That’s why.

And trust me, I love the look so much I keep a pair in my backpack for easy stuff like underleveled areas, but it’s just not very flexible.

Personally I use DD because a/ it seems to do more DPS, and b/ it looks cool

If you’re going to use pistol/pistol, consider using signet of malice as your heal. It has a lot of synergy with unload.

I use pistol/pistol as my offset, sword/pistol as my main.

dual pistol is amazing for dungeons. You can’t be in melee all the time in dungeons, so being able to do good ranged dps is nice. Short-bow is bad and it should feel bad. All short bow does is some aoe damage.

Splat.2718:

Short-bow is bad and it should feel bad. All short bow does is some aoe damage.

what are you talking about, Shortbow does more dmg then unload overall, on PP u just spam unload, with Shortbow its poison cloud from which all party benefit + cluster bomb detonates multiple times on same mob

I love the idea of P/P but it fails completely at its purpose (ranged direct damage).

The damage is lackluster. Unload does unimpressive damage and does it slowly to boot. In PvP it is painfully easy to dodge/block/reflect it. In PvE it still isn’t great because of my next point; control.

The set completely lacks control outside of a tiny daze and doesn’t even have a controlled cripple to its name. Your enemy will be in your face before the first Unload finishes and then you have to start dancing. That actually isn’t too wrong since that should be the Thief’s style but there lies the problem; P/P cannot do any significant damage unless channelling Unload which means you cannot do so while evading.

Perhaps the most annoying thorn in the side is that after all that, Shortbow will still out-damage P/P even on single target. Go figure.

I use quad pistols in sPvP. Yep, quad. I use weapon switch for various trait procs, and since weapon skills are limited by initiative cost instead of cooldown, and all my traits are based around dual wielding / pistols there’s no need to equip anything else. Everything else that doesn’t boost pistol skills goes into improving initiative gain and Bob’s your Uncle.

Scorpy.9754:

Splat.2718:

Short-bow is bad and it should feel bad. All short bow does is some aoe damage.

what are you talking about, Shortbow does more dmg then unload overall, on PP u just spam unload, with Shortbow its poison cloud from which all party benefit + cluster bomb detonates multiple times on same mob

I’m with you. I do way more damage with SB, and I am a fan of P/P, but only when I need single target damage at range.

I usually do PP actually. I’m specced as a glass cannon. With full Crit chance and crit dmg gear.

I have no problems in WvW or in PVE with PP. I will switch to daggers oh the odd occasion when it’s necessary. But, majority of the time i have my pistols out.

Mind you, I have a full stealth and Con. Dmg build for sPvP.

pp is good for long range

i am pp and dd in sPVP and works well

Would PP (sneak attack) combined with shadow refuge still do less damage than a short bow?

I like attacking from range so I tried p/d, short bow and pp. I’m not much of a min maxer so I just stick with pp because its fun. At the same time maybe i should revisit the short bow….

I used a p/p set up for quite a while and have only recently swapped to shortbow. What i found with pp (in PvP mostly) is that while it does good single target damage, you can get similar damage from shortbow, but shortbow gives you a heap more AoE – inc the basic 1 zero ini attack which bounces and has high base dmg, and mobility (inc disabling shot, not just infiltrators arrow). So while pp might help you burst down a sinlge target slightly quicker, SB overall i think is a better weapon. I keep d/p on swap however because headshot interrupt and black power shot are awesome.

Amulrei.4973:

I love the idea of P/P but it fails completely at its purpose (ranged direct damage).

The damage is lackluster. Unload does unimpressive damage and does it slowly to boot. In PvP it is painfully easy to dodge/block/reflect it. In PvE it still isn’t great because of my next point; control.

The set completely lacks control outside of a tiny daze and doesn’t even have a controlled cripple to its name. Your enemy will be in your face before the first Unload finishes and then you have to start dancing. That actually isn’t too wrong since that should be the Thief’s style but there lies the problem; P/P cannot do any significant damage unless channelling Unload which means you cannot do so while evading.

Perhaps the most annoying thorn in the side is that after all that, Shortbow will still out-damage P/P even on single target. Go figure.

Everyone makes this claim but I find shortbow to do absolutely pathetic damage to a single target. The autoattacks are about comparable, but the pistol adds bleed to it, cluster bomb does maybe 50% of the damage that unload does to a single target, and I hardly consider the poison field to be effective single target dps, not when you can use venom/steal to apply poison as well, not if you’re running with a condition specced necromancer who will override your poison and probably stack to 25 bleeds by himself.

Shortbow focuses on control but against a single target it is THE weakest weapon you can use.

I REALLY don’t see how people continue to make this claim that it does so much single target damage. I really don’t. If there are less than 3 mobs, I just can’t see shortbow being useful in PVE against a boss.

Not to mention to use cluster bomb effectively without it taking all day to do damage you need to be point blank range, which means you might as well melee.

Tingji.3214:

Would PP (sneak attack) combined with shadow refuge still do less damage than a short bow?

I like attacking from range so I tried p/d, short bow and pp. I’m not much of a min maxer so I just stick with pp because its fun. At the same time maybe i should revisit the short bow….

against a single target you’ll do more damage against a single target, by far. If you’re traited for steal to poison, and have spider venom, you can keep up poison pretty effectively (especially if your stolen items give conditions as well), you’ll be able to make better use of power/precision for direct damage, your autoattack will continue to stack bleeds (and if you have a sigil of earth you’ll stack even more).

Shortbow is for aoe and gimmicks, not single target damage.

Mediocre, single target only damage at the cost of all of your initiative. And the other abilities don’t really mesh well with unload. The basic attack is mostly condition damage, which is a problem considering unload is all power/precision based. The #2 is total garbage. #4 is decent, but using P/P you’re gonna be starved for initiative. And #5 in particular just takes waaaay too much initiative for an initiative-starved weapon setup, forcing you to spend a lot of time doing weak, nearly useless #1 attacks.

If you want to do single target ranged damage there are plenty of classes who do it far better than thief.

S/P and P/P for one of my thief builds in structured. Shortbow and P/P for when I am in WvW. Might change but P/P is useful to a point and works far better in a support context, on the fringe on things, rather than in the thick.

I tend to use P/P in WvsW, since I tend to get eaten alive when I get close to anyone. PvE and sPvP I tend to use S/P, but I like the damage and mobility I get with P/P and shortbow in WvsW. I fail at Pistol Whip though, so I’ve been thinking about messing around with P/P in sPvP too.

I have been playing with PP for a while now and find that it works best when going up against single opponents in open areas.

I prefer DD when going up against multiple enemies as it’s so much easier to attack a few at a time while poisoning multiple enemies.

That being said, everyone has their own play style and what works for one person may not work for another. Combine that with the variables of traits and gear, its a bit hard to just deem that one weapon set is bad when it depends on so many different things.

Just my $0.02

Talon.8219:

Just been scanning the forums and it looks like everyone and there dog is either using DD or DP.

Is there a particular reason that no one uses double pistols as their main set up. I’m only level 51 at the moment working towards a dual pistol stealth heavy build as show below.

http://en.gw2codex.com/build/17325

Can you guys explain to me why using dual pistols seems to be frowned upon. So far I’ve had no problem taking on anything in PVE, I seem to be very survivable and do a good deal of damage. 1 on 1 in PVP I hold my own and very rarely die.

So guys clue me in why is PP so bad?

I use PD personally. I dont like PP for several reasons:

1) I’m a stealth guy, PP doesn’t give me stealth options.

2) Its great in terms of survivability, thanks to blind spam, but you can spam blind through stealth as well…which is aoe and not single target.

3) I prefer to be close range. From close range I can utilize cripples from caltrops as well as make casters very uncomfortable. PP doesn’t offer much close range utility.

4) Best part about pistol is the stealth attack. Its like a single-handed unload and gives really nice bleed stacks coming out of stealth. This is why I rock the PD, cloak and dagger gives me easy stealth.

5) Pistols are a bit slow unless you are using multi-hit skills like sneak attack or unload. Unload will get heavy on intiative though.

Its not so much pistols are bad, its just that other playstyles seem to offer more of what other ppl are looking for. I like PP though, just not my steez.

I was really interested in leveling a PP thief, but I couldn’t find ANY AOE weapon skills on my bar >_> Is that correct, or did I miss something? Seemed to me that dual pistoling would be a HUGE disadvantage in certain PvE situations (like events) because of that.

Any help there would be great.

Pistol shots Pierce by default -pierce meaning they go through the target- and for a pure ranged build you would switch to bow often.

The issue is that every weapon combination is better than P/P when leveling and I can say that easily even though it sounds like a subjective statement because to prove it I would ask any of you to try the other combinations.

Its a PvE leveling thing!

Cempa.3645:

Pistol shots Pierce by default -pierce meaning they go through the target

Oh man ALL thief pistol shots pierce by default? That is NICE. Engineers have to take a 30pt trait to get that.

EDIT: I went out to the mists and tested this on some golem target dummies… didn’t have any luck getting the bullets to pierce

Tolmos.8395:

Cempa.3645:

Pistol shots Pierce by default -pierce meaning they go through the target

Oh man ALL thief pistol shots pierce by default? That is NICE. Engineers have to take a 30pt trait to get that.

EDIT: I went out to the mists and tested this on some golem target dummies… didn’t have any luck getting the bullets to pierce

He’s wrong, there’s a trait to give pistol shots a 5% chance to riccocet to another target (not even worth it), but no piercing. Piercing would be a nice trait to have in the critical strikes line.

I use P/P and Traps most of the time – draw opponents in from afar with my pistols, get a couple good Unloads on them as they run up, and then my traps immobilize and summon to give me time and distraction while I strafe. I can easily take on 4-5 opponents at a time using dual pistols; their big drawback is they require room to move in tight areas, but that’s why I keep D/D as my backup.

It’s not at all that great compared to the shortbow when it comes down to it. You already have the best pistol skill black powder with dagger/pistol.

What kills twin pistols is no area-effect. You need at least one of those attacks on hand at all times, and they offer none. And they’re not as powerful as they should be.

I used P/P a lot during the first betas, I even made a video tutorial about a very succesful Thief Lord P/P build.

But right now I’m using S/P and SB. The reason is that P/P feels incredibly boring after much use. You soon realize Unload is your most valuable skill for 95% of situations so you simply keep spamming it over and over and over. Aditionally as others said, SB ends up being more damagin overal, and provides far more utility. With P/P you build for criticals, add on critical effects and spam unload to trigger effects, and that’s all.

I just pp to look cool. It’s bland in the sense you just keep unloading… and Unload is a very boring skill. The visual appeal is there, sure. Improving its damage might be good, but lazy; it would just make a thief use Unload even more. It needs to have some diversity.

Couldn’t we use 5 and then Unload? Sure, shoot some short-lasting blinds repeatedly for an absurd cost of initiative. No, it needs to be something much more fun than that. Maybe they should add a perk or secondary effect to Unload or an ability that will have good synergy with it.

Idk. Either way, pp looks like a kitten, but short bow owns it hands down. Again this game makes me pick a weapon I don’t want to pick to be effective.

A few traits and proper sigils can still make them viable. Perhaps not as versatile as Shortbow but still usable.

P/P is significantly weaker than other weapon sets because of how insanely good unload is with combo fields.

Ouzhyr.2175:

P/P is significantly weaker than other weapon sets because of how insanely good unload is with combo fields.

How so? On average you’ll get a bit over one proc per use, and it’s definitely one of the weaker types of finishers. For 5 initiative and a long cast time that doesn’t really strike me as “insanely good”.

Why should I play Pistol/Pistol? That weapon setup is weak. Body Shot cast time is slow and Unload damage is low.

Very disappointing, because when it comes to aesthetics I like Pistol/Pistol a lot.

P/P is a joke. Maybe it’ll be worth using if they increase the damage of Unload by 50%, but until then? The only way to burst anything is stacking bleeds with haste and then Unloading afterwards, and that gets you killed because you’ll have no mobility due to no endurance/initiative.

It’s weak in solo PvE too, only good for tagging mobs fast if shortbow isnt fast enough.

Well I still don’t see how shortbow is supposed to be such great damage on a single target. I’m doing about 3000 damage on cluster bomb explosions compared to 5500 on unload. Both can stack bleed with sigil of earth and pistol auto attacks, and I can poison with steal just the same as using choking gas, just on a single target. In the end I’m doing 50% more damage with pistols. Things just die a lot faster with pistols. I can circle strafe and things die. Shortbow requires a lot more finesse but the payout for that finesse is just lacking.

Devildoc.6721:

Well I still don’t see how shortbow is supposed to be such great damage on a single target. I’m doing about 3000 damage on cluster bomb explosions compared to 5500 on unload. Both can stack bleed with sigil of earth and pistol auto attacks, and I can poison with steal just the same as using choking gas, just on a single target. In the end I’m doing 50% more damage with pistols. Things just die a lot faster with pistols. I can circle strafe and things die. Shortbow requires a lot more finesse but the payout for that finesse is just lacking.

Short Bow is an AoE weapon. I can kill 6 PvE enemies at the same time, while you kill 1 or 2 with Pistol/Pistol.

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Devildoc.6721:

Well I still don’t see how shortbow is supposed to be such great damage on a single target. I’m doing about 3000 damage on cluster bomb explosions compared to 5500 on unload. Both can stack bleed with sigil of earth and pistol auto attacks, and I can poison with steal just the same as using choking gas, just on a single target. In the end I’m doing 50% more damage with pistols. Things just die a lot faster with pistols. I can circle strafe and things die. Shortbow requires a lot more finesse but the payout for that finesse is just lacking.

Short Bow is an AoE weapon. I can kill 6 PvE enemies at the same time, while you kill 1 or 2 with Pistol/Pistol.

If we’re talking PVE trash I can kill that number even faster with pistol whip and black powder. Only times I find myself needing to be ranged is against single powerful targets that can’t be blinded like champions, or in pvp.

Haha. Pistol/Pistol is pretty freaking sweet. I use most of the skills but in general combat I only use one → Body Shot 2 or maybe 3 times to cause heavy Vulnerability, then I switch to daggers and use Steal. Now that I’m behind them, and stealthed with the trait, Backstab for thousands of damage. Activate Assassin’s Signet for lulz.

Shortbow is more defensive, Pistol/Pistol is more offensive but with defensive capabilities which I think makes it better in some circumstances.

Devildoc.6721:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Devildoc.6721:

Well I still don’t see how shortbow is supposed to be such great damage on a single target. I’m doing about 3000 damage on cluster bomb explosions compared to 5500 on unload. Both can stack bleed with sigil of earth and pistol auto attacks, and I can poison with steal just the same as using choking gas, just on a single target. In the end I’m doing 50% more damage with pistols. Things just die a lot faster with pistols. I can circle strafe and things die. Shortbow requires a lot more finesse but the payout for that finesse is just lacking.

Short Bow is an AoE weapon. I can kill 6 PvE enemies at the same time, while you kill 1 or 2 with Pistol/Pistol.

If we’re talking PVE trash I can kill that number even faster with pistol whip and black powder. Only times I find myself needing to be ranged is against single powerful targets that can’t be blinded like champions, or in pvp.

Also in PvP if there are 2 or more targets, the Shorwbow is the superior weapon.

Because as venom share C&D into unload with venoms up = 5 stacks of bleed and a full poison list. Then when they move in sneak attack 30 yards back, throw dancing dagger and you have a viable bleed kite. Steal back in for another C7D and repeat. Targets die FAST

Can we just say that with the range of available builds, utilities, tactics and playstyles, it’s kinda moot. Can you kill with it? Yes. Does it take a long time? No. Will it work in PvP with the right set up and tactics? Yes.

Done.

(but shortbow is still better)

I use it in dungeons because I can apply 25 stacks of vulnerability in about 3-4 seconds. Super useful, especially with decent Initiative regeneration. Black Powder and Head Shot are also great tools for dungeons.

I use P/P and D/D. I use two pieces of Valk and 4 pieces of Zerkers all exotic. Two exotic pistols. I’m halfway through my exotic jewelry. I have over 40% crit and 96 crit damage. Every unload does more than 10k on anything in medium or less.

Two small highlights…

http://www.twitch.tv/mikebee21/b/332165806
http://www.twitch.tv/mikebee21/b/332166659

I love D/D when I have to catch someone and when I cannot get range on them…

The best thief I have seen was a Pistol/Dagger stealth Thief with a SB offset. He was very hard to deal with.

Devildoc.6721:

Well I still don’t see how shortbow is supposed to be such great damage on a single target. I’m doing about 3000 damage on cluster bomb explosions compared to 5500 on unload. Both can stack bleed with sigil of earth and pistol auto attacks, and I can poison with steal just the same as using choking gas, just on a single target. In the end I’m doing 50% more damage with pistols. Things just die a lot faster with pistols. I can circle strafe and things die. Shortbow requires a lot more finesse but the payout for that finesse is just lacking.

What you’re proposing is a false dilemma. The ubiquity of Shortbow in the loadouts of talented thieves has nothing to do with single target damage, so why bother comparing it between Shortbow and Dual Pistols? Between the very good AOE damage and the CLASS DEFINING mobility of Infiltrator’s Arrow, passing on Shortbow is not an option for the competitive Thief, period.

This means that, when intelligently discussing potential Thief weapon choices, there’s an underlying assumption that the weapons in question would be run ALONGSIDE the Shortbow. This also means that you preferably want your non-Shortbow weapons to provide something unique, ranging from utility to strong single target damage.

And what, really, do Dual Pistols bring to the table? In terms of damage, it’s ALL single target, and not even that high compared to other options. The set lacks a single snare, root, or meaningful escape skill, Unload is slow and easy to dodge in PvP, and to cap it off, the skills don’t even synergize well amongst themselves. Vital Shot and Sneak Attack favor Condition Damage, Unload favors Power, Crit, and On Hit effects, and Body Shot costs resources you’ll never have to spare, due to how Initiative hungry Unload is.

Headshot and Black Powder are very useful, granted, but you could just run D/P or S/P and get the same skills attached to a better package instead. Frankly spoken: P/P needs work.

More or less, the offhand has no synergy with the main hand. You dont need vulnerability stacks if you’re doing condition dmg. You don’t need blind spam if you’re kiting from range. They dont go together. Basically you pick off hand pistol or mh pistol, buth both just gives you something other things can do better.

Personally I’m a P/D man myself. Low intiative cost, great bleed stacks, decent mobility, with the only real weakness being lack of powerful ranged abilities. With a shortbow the problem is remedied with increased mobility, moar conditions, and useful kiting tools.

lol…
personally I’m a P/P i dont know about them bt this build really give me some advantages then other builds

If u really know how to use those advantage it be much better
well so far im lvl 35 now got no problem soloing any event’s event centaur’s event
and no problem for my story

if u know what is kitting it would be alot different story

I’m using P/P for PVE and boss fights, in contradiction to a popular belief it has amazing utility-to-damage ratio.

Auto-attack causes bleed or turns into Repeater when stealthed.

Second skill causes stackable 5% defense debuff, pretty good for boss fights, no?

Unload is actually pretty decent and with crit bonus signet equipped it crits quite often.

Fourth skill, causes interrupt+daze, also spammable and it causes small damage, which means that if you hit yourself with it in pvp, you’re not screwed.

PBAoE Blind-what’s not to like there?

So yeah, pretty darn good, if you ask me, I do switch it to bow, from time to time, when I know I’m up against hordes of trash mobs.