Guild Wars 2

Don’t listen to anyone saying nerf Thief. There is nothing wrong with this profession, just bad players, it might be blunt but it’s straight forward. Thief have the lowest base HP next to Elems, we might wear medium armor but were natrually squishy, we have nothing what so ever that contributes to survival, only stealth. In PvP, whether it’s SPvP, or WvWvW, there’s not much a Thief can do.

We can’t take a group of people on, we can’t hold spot’s for the team, while every other profession has some kind of utilty that brings something to contribute in some type of defense, the Thief has none.

What we have, are skills. Developed to be strong in 1v1 combat, skills, that make us hunters, you won’t ever see a thief leading the charge, or a thief on his own trying to defend a point, nope. Were just good, at ambushing a single target, and escaping. It really is as simple as that.

For anyone else crying about Stealth, we can still get hit, hit by AoE, and suffer conditions. While most others have some immunity or a way to get rid of them.
For anyone else crying about Backstab, it takes a few cooldowns, and time to land it right, if we miss, there’s not much we can do and we have to back out.
For anyone crying about heartseeker spam, well, your just bad.

So Arena.Net, take it from someone who has been playing the assassin class since the dawn of MMO’s, we are not OP. In fact, Theifs, Warriors and Gaurdians along with Mesmers are balanced. It’s the other professions that need little buffs and what not.

That is all, thanks.

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Dee Jay.2460:

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Once again, someone complaining who knows nothing. You do realize we have to sacrifice everything, to reach good burst. Where as a warrior for example, Eviscerate or Hundred blades still does more damage than backstab, while keeping high survivability. Without it, were just a useless profession walking around stealthing not contributing to anything. And when we do reach that burst, we can only do good damage to certain professions.
I think what you don’t understand is, there are so many people going glass cannon in PvP because this games PvP is too dynamic for there simple brains, they get hurt bad by a Thief, which is normal because read my first post, were only good in 1v1, then come crying to forums. I don’t know how much simpler I can put it, there is nothing to discuss.

Truly, the only burst that would need be addressed is backstab, as every other burst a thief can put out, another class can put out as well.

However, backstab is one of the only skills in the game that requires so many conditions for it to work properly, and you must do all of this in four seconds. You need to:

1. Be behind the target. No Shadowstep drops you behind the target.
2. Be in stealth.
3. Have Assassin’s Signet primed.
4. Not be blinded, and the target cannot have invul/evade/block up. (Though this is true of any burst ability)
5. Be in melee range.

In any case, in any conditions, there must be no classes that can kill another any class in 1 second. If this happens – this is disbalance of classes. Every class must have some time to react against threat, not to die instantly from invisible enemy.

Derrikson.4709:

In any case, in any conditions, there must be no classes that can kill another any class in 1 second. If this happens – this is disbalance of classes. Every class must have some time to react against threat, not to die instantly from invisible enemy.

How exactly does a Thief kill something in 1 second lmao? Then again your exaggerating, your most likely going to quote with something like 3-5 seconds so allow me to retort.

What is this other guy doing while the Thief is trying to kill them, do they just stand there, brains lock-up in confusion of what to do, die, then come to forums and complain? I’d really like to know. Because it is impossible for any thief to kill something in under 5 seconds unless we get very lucky with crits, we catch someone off gaurd, and if there a glass cannon along with us being a glass cannon.

You are wrong Auron and you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Add WvW into the mix, with Orbs, culling bugs etc. and players can easily get killed in 1-2 seconds.

I play that spec myself, and it really does work that well. A 45 second CD and 14k HP don’t justify practically one-shotting people.

When discussing balance, never bring up WvW. Anyone can global you in a single second in WvW.

Dee Jay.2460:

You are wrong Auron and you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Add WvW into the mix, with Orbs, culling bugs etc. and players can easily get killed in 1-2 seconds.

I play that spec myself, and it really does work that well. A 45 second CD and 14k HP don’t justify practically one-shotting people.

The only proof that is, is a glass cannon Thief backstabbing glass cannon people. Or am I missing something?

Auron.2657:

Dee Jay.2460:

You are wrong Auron and you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Add WvW into the mix, with Orbs, culling bugs etc. and players can easily get killed in 1-2 seconds.

I play that spec myself, and it really does work that well. A 45 second CD and 14k HP don’t justify practically one-shotting people.

The only proof that is, is a glass cannon Thief backstabbing glass cannon people. Or am I missing something?

wrong, the glass cannons wher hit for 10k, was hitting high toughness targets between 7-8k crits. maybe open your eyes and stop denying.

anyway it does not matter. the nerf will come 100%. anet is already collecting the data or do you thing the merged thread pinned at the top was done by a staff member just for fun?

CptCosmic.3156:

Auron.2657:

Dee Jay.2460:

You are wrong Auron and you are the one who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E

Add WvW into the mix, with Orbs, culling bugs etc. and players can easily get killed in 1-2 seconds.

I play that spec myself, and it really does work that well. A 45 second CD and 14k HP don’t justify practically one-shotting people.

The only proof that is, is a glass cannon Thief backstabbing glass cannon people. Or am I missing something?

wrong, the glass cannons wher hit for 10k, was hitting high toughness targets between 7-8k crits. maybe open your eyes and stop denying.

anyway it does not matter. the nerf will come 100%. anet is already collecting the data or do you thing the merged thread pinned at the top was done by a staff member just for fun?

No, I’m just tired of unskilled noobs, in every single game, crying over any type of assassin class with stealth, it’s always the same story. So we can crit for 8k average, that takes time to set up right. What’s going to happen when we can only crit for 4-5k average? We will use all are cooldowns and intiative’s for nothing while any other profession can just heal, remove conditions, block, or become immune, all of which a thief don’t have, they will be on there way while Thief will have no choice but to run with nothing left.

I think thief right now is a solid and balanced class. I’am a WvW player and I can definitely tell that about 90% of lvl80 thieves in WvW are just too bad. If this class is op, why those thieves hardly kill anyone, and just keep dying instantly? Thief, indeed, hits really hard in glass cannon build, but he has no survivability, and in most cases is easily countered. The only thing that I feel needs to be nerfed is Assassin’s Signet because it increases damage by too much. They should make it 25% damage increase with 30 seconds cd, like someone suggested in another topic.

I’ve hit backstabs for 13-15k. I’m not the only one. I’m not even particularly good at a backstab build, because I hardly ever play it, because I know it’s over the top and will most likely get nerfed.

It doesn’t matter what the circumstances are really; I don’t think 1-shotting or near 1-shotting is good for an MMO.

Don’t really care how we have to spec, what we have to give up, what we have to do, or how stupid our opponent has to be, the fact is that it (our ridiculous burst) can and does happen. I know many classes that would love to have the option to spec like this and get the same results and they cannot.

However, there are 2 things that I believe ArenaNet should absolutely address first, before making any (more) nerfs. Quickness, and the absurdly long delay in between destealthing and rendering. Changing / fixing these 2 things will have a noticeable impact on Thief balance, among other things. Balance the core game mechanics and technical issues first, then get the class balance fine-tuned.

Dee Jay.2460:

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Auron put it straight, you don’t know anything. He said that we have to “sacrifice everything to get [an effective] burst” and that’s so true. Thieves are in that regard balanced.

The cons of the thief balance out their high damage output. This is HOW IT SHOULD BE because the thief was intended to resemble an assassin, and if you know anything, assassins inflict high critical damage but they pay with low armor and defense, and health. People are complaining because the thief is “too” unique – they don’t resemble any other class and play completely different from their counterparts.

That’s why thieves go down so quickly and tend to flee combat when they’re at a disadvantage – because they have no defense from attacks and will most likely go down. Speed, acrobatics, and high criticals buff the thief, but their low armor and defense debuff them.

I went down within a second of a warrior who used Rush to catch up to me, then hundred bladed the crap out of me. Why didn’t I stand and fight since I had “burst damage” (as you put it)? Because I have no defense against his powerful attacks.

I hope ANet doesn’t listen to YOU.

No, I’m just tired of unskilled noobs, in every single game, crying over any type of assassin class with stealth, it’s always the same story. So we can crit for 8k average, that takes time to set up right. What’s going to happen when we can only crit for 4-5k average? We will use all are cooldowns and intiative’s for nothing while any other profession can just heal, remove conditions, block, or become immune, all of which a thief don’t have, they will be on there way while Thief will have no choice but to run with nothing left.

Sorry but I think you’re the noob here. A big part about being mature and realistic about your class is admitting when something is overpowered and needs to be addressed.

Thief burst damage is an issue. I play a very minor variant of the spec shown in the video above and it really does work that well. Not just against other glass-cannons, it works against pretty much everyone. In fact, I can’t remember ever having lost a 1v1 since using that spec.

The only times it fails is if the target happens to dodge at the same moment you Steal. Then you may get screwed. But dodging an instant ability is a very random event and happens in maybe 1 of 20 cases.

Thieves as a whole may not be OP, but the this single aspect of their class, is.

mnguyen.5142:

Dee Jay.2460:

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Auron put it straight, you don’t know anything. He said that we have to “sacrifice everything to get [an effective] burst” and that’s so true. Thieves are in that regard balanced.

The cons of the thief balance out their high damage output. This is HOW IT SHOULD BE because the thief was intended to resemble an assassin, and if you know anything, assassins inflict high critical damage but they pay with low armor and defense, and health. People are complaining because the thief is “too” unique – they don’t resemble any other class and play completely different from their counterparts.

That’s why thieves go down so quickly and tend to flee combat when they’re at a disadvantage – because they have no defense from attacks and will most likely go down. Speed, acrobatics, and high criticals buff the thief, but their low armor and defense debuff them.

I went down within a second of a warrior who used Rush to catch up to me, then hundred bladed the crap out of me. Why didn’t I stand and fight since I had “burst damage” (as you put it)? Because I have no defense against his powerful attacks.

I hope ANet doesn’t listen to YOU.

You have a very simple understanding of game-balance if you think it’s a simple matter of stacking offense at the cost of defense. Balance doesn’t just work like that.

By your logic it would be ok to deal 100.000 dmg as long as you only have 1 HP (obvious hyperbole). But any designer will tell you that’s no ok (unless you’re playing Unreal Tournament with Instant Gib).

All stats need to fall within a certain spectrum of power. You want fights to last anywhere between 5 and 25 seconds or there is simply no room to react and respond. Currently Thief glass cannon specs fall out of this spectrum towards the damage end while other classes fall out on the defensive end (they’re too hard to kill).

The reason why excessive burst isn’t acceptable is because as a Thief, you get to pick most of your fights. You’re one of the most slippery classes in game, you have stealth, another form of defense/utility that allows glass-cannons to persist longer than other glasses would be able to under normal circumstances etc.

I have played MMOs for well over a decade. I know an imbalance when I see one and Thief burst is such a thing.

Auron.2657:

Dee Jay.2460:

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Once again, someone complaining who knows nothing. You do realize we have to sacrifice everything, to reach good burst. Where as a warrior for example, Eviscerate or Hundred blades still does more damage than backstab, while keeping high survivability. Without it, were just a useless profession walking around stealthing not contributing to anything. And when we do reach that burst, we can only do good damage to certain professions.
I think what you don’t understand is, there are so many people going glass cannon in PvP because this games PvP is too dynamic for there simple brains, they get hurt bad by a Thief, which is normal because read my first post, were only good in 1v1, then come crying to forums. I don’t know how much simpler I can put it, there is nothing to discuss.

Yea, I’m with Auron on this one…

Also Auron, Anet does look at players for feed back but they know what they are doing 100% of the time. The way you have written this makes it sound like they blindly listen to every complaint and take it to heart, Like they’ve had brain surgery or something.

I like what you say about sacrifice though. To build a proper glass cannon you drop all survival.
A good player (who could also be built to survive) will avoid that glass cannon and win in the long run.

It does actually take finesse to play a true glass cannon. You don’t just rush in for any kill. You never see that though.

A glass cannon build and play style is more of an in the moment scenario, where as a survival build is thinking ahead and more long term effects.

Again, you have to play well… Its easy to call thief the easiest class to play when one has taken the most obvious juke build.

I’d like to see the same type of mind set challenge them selves and make a build that is hard for them to play.
Thanks for posting this.
I think many things you say needed to be heard despite all the opposing comments.

Good Luck!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Quick-update

Read this, then realize they more than likely won’t nerf thief.

All classes can be built for very high burst damage against squishy characters, with maybe the exception of necromancer.

Yes why don’t they nerf the things that make a thief a thief -.- Thieves are already squishy, and you want to a nerf our damage then we’ll be squishy and weak. Then we’re useless; we won’t have any offensive pressure in battle.

9k backstabs 3k steal and 1 hartseekers
killed me by the same thief TWICE
the first fight he killed me outright before i even saw him and before he broke stealth

2nd time I caught him from behind, he vanished mid swing, killed me INSTANTLY

by the way. I am a full bunker guardian.

BishopX.6453:

9k backstabs 3k steal and 1 hartseekers

by the way. I am a full bunker guardian.

It is almost impossible to hit even a 6k crit backstab on a fully defensive spec’d Guardian like your saying you are, so I don’t know where your getting those numbers from.

I see majority of the complaints about thief or any other high burst scenarios bloom from something like:

You have one type of player going in with a 2 shot build expecting to do crazy damage in pvp…and they do. They kill fast and swift. (didn’t try to hard either)
You have the opponent who is shocked by this. Be it they are also a glass or maybe survival.

That is a jump to a conclusion.
There is no observation as to why this happened.
At the end of it all, no one has learned from their mistakes.
Clearly both players are learning, and growing (hopefully) and making mistakes.

Allot like a witness to the end of a crime scene.
They have no idea what happened to begin with, but are rushing to report it to the police.

here it is

I cut the screen shot and pasted it on my stat page just incase someone would say “get moar toughness” or “get MOAR DEFENSIVE1!!!”

not happy with this, and it happens all the time.

You have 12k HP. You’re asking to die to anything with that build. That is far from a “defensive” build.

Stacking toughness doesn’t make a build tanky. Assassin’s Signet gives 50% more damage on the next attack, so that Backstab wasn’t even a 6k crit. If you truly think 12k HP is enough to call yourself tanky, you’re going to be very disappointed through sPvP.

IF thief gets nerf, it’s going to hit Assassin’s Signet. It’s not going to really hit the rest of the build.

You can’t remove thief’s burst damage without just removing the thief from the game. Thief literally has nothing but burst damage that it excels at. Anything that thief can do other than burst other classes can do better. They wanted balance, and nerfing what a class can do well to put it in line with what other classes can do – if not less – is not a balanced game.

People are asking the game to adapt to their playstyle. They want to be able to win every single 1v1 uncontested.

This isn’t Riot games. Complaining about something won’t get it nerfed to uselessness.

“No, I’m just tired of unskilled noobs, in every single game, crying over any type of assassin class with stealth, it’s always the same story” (quote didn’t worked) .

I stopped to read here…think this is enough.
I don’t even have to waste time to understand why u play the same class on every game.

I play engineer 80,thief 80,warrior 60+ ,tested elementalist,ranger and necro.

I mostly play WvW and PvP ofc.

With my thief i can deal absurd damage,and i can also go around with 5 different hide skills(traits included).
No one can do this… i mean damage + a “total safe-mode” to go around and conquer point without even looking for a group.
And,even if i meet an enemy zerg of 60 ppls,no one is able to catch me…even another thief is not able to catch me.

Most of the ppls here are scared by a possible “nerf”,that i prefer call “balance”.
May be you like to feel safe and sneaky.
But..when u joined guild wars2 ,i hope you have read the descripion of every class,on the GW2 site.
Thief in this game,is not meanted to be the common assassin of the others MMo.
This is an Anet concept about his creation.
This is why our thief,unlike the Aion assassin (for ex),was not supposed to have a perma stealth.

I wont be surprised if Anet,after a damage reduction,would also retouch our hide skills.
And,what make me think different from you , is that testing a lot other classes,i know there will be ever a way to play your character.

The “unskilled noob” is not the poor guy that in our case face a real disbalance,and feel frustrated.
The real “Unskilled noob” is the “assassin” in this case,that can’t even immagine himself adopt another playstile.

I blame Anet for this…allow thief play with backstab/heartseeker spam,forced me to reroll other classes,cause as thief i only feel the hate of the other ppls , for a playstile i don’t even use for his lack of immagination/ability/sense of fairplay.

I apologize for my english.
Regards!

As a thief, i know this profession is overpowered, both as playing one and playing against them, the ability to 3 shot geared players whill remaining completely stealthed and basically having perma swiftness is just too much for one class

As a thief, for the greater good and balancing of the game, this class needs its damage or stealth nerfed, to make thief what its suppose to be, a skill based class

“No, I’m just tired of unskilled noobs, in every single game, crying over any type of assassin class with stealth, it’s always the same story.”

lets examine this statement…

Could it be that people whine in every game about these particular classes because they’re usually overpowered?

DAOC – Shadowblades with Two handers One shot and remaining stealthed, Infil – Dragonfang anyone…9 second stun off Evade?, Nightshade – their RR5

Rift – Nightblades, Assassins..Both do lots of damage… Both have Stealth and Multiple Escapes

WoW – Rogue, able to stunlock people to death at the start of the game (probably still can)

SWTOR – operative? Hell.. Marauder eventually.. both had stealth to some degree.

Warhammer Online – Witch Hunter and Witch Elf, both stupid overpowered at points in the game.

Bout the only game I can honestly think off the top of my head where Stealthers with any Sort of Burst weren’t overpowered at some point was maybe the Original EQ….

Fact is, Stealth + High Burst usually is going to end up with a class that’s going to get nerfed at some point, in fact the number 1 rule of all MMO’s is simple

When choosing a class, Choose one with Stealth, or Choose one with Fire…

Because You will be overpowered, and You will most likely be the one nerfed first.

my last post must have not gone up.
but im a guardian, we have the least hp.
I posted the SS of my gear for a reason. I have max toughness vital ruines. a toughness healing artifact and have max 30 spec points into VITALITY and TOUGHNESS.

but lets pretend there was a way to keep my toughness maxed and vitality maxed and add on 3.5k more hp…. guess what STILL happens?

I die INSTANTLY, before he comes out of stealth.
when he killed the first person instantly I thought… LOL noobs dont have toughness, let me go own this thief in the face. and he insta killed ME as well. he hit the OTHER person for 14k just with his backstab according to chat.

BishopX.6453:

my last post must have not gone up.
but im a guardian, we have the least hp.
I posted the SS of my gear for a reason. I have max toughness vital ruines. a toughness healing artifact and have max 30 spec points into VITALITY and TOUGHNESS.

but lets pretend there was a way to keep my toughness maxed and vitality maxed and add on 3.5k more hp…. guess what STILL happens?

I die INSTANTLY, before he comes out of stealth.
when he killed the first person instantly I thought… LOL noobs dont have toughness, let me go own this thief in the face. and he insta killed ME as well. he hit the OTHER person for 14k just with his backstab according to chat.

No, you don’t. You have 12.4k HP – Guardian’s base HP is 10805. 30 points into Vitality would put you at 13.8k HP, not 12.4. You also have bonus vitality from your rune. I wouldn’t be surprised if you happen to have no points in the vitality tree.

Fact of the matter is you’re going to get destroyed by anything with HP that low. Stacking toughness won’t make you tanky. It’ll just make you take less damage, but you’ll still die fast due to having such a low HP. Conditions or burst will wreck you and they did.

You didn’t even die instantly. You were poisoned for 6 seconds.

Believe it or not, game developers aren’t perfect and don’t always get it right. Sometimes there exist genuinely overpowered classes, abilities, or builds. Backstab Thief is currently one such build. It needs to be changed. Hopefully the change isn’t too severe, but it needs to be changed nonetheless.

As Dee Jay correctly noted, past a certain point, it ceases to be possible to balance high power with low survivability. This only works within a certain range.

I see a lot of people defending the current state of backstab thief with the “l2p noob” card. I suggest you all do exactly that, because it’s going to get changed, the only question is what (my bets: assassin’s signet and possibly quickness), when, and by how much.

Kintari.4172:

Believe it or not, game developers aren’t perfect and don’t always get it right. Sometimes there exist genuinely overpowered classes, abilities, or builds. Backstab Thief is currently one such build. It needs to be changed. Hopefully the change isn’t too severe, but it needs to be changed nonetheless.

As Dee Jay correctly noted, past a certain point, it ceases to be possible to balance high power with low survivability. This only works within a certain range.

I see a lot of people defending the current state of backstab thief with the “l2p noob” card. I suggest you all do exactly that, because it’s going to get changed, the only question is what (my bets: assassin’s signet and possibly quickness), when, and by how much.

I’d agree if they nerfed Assassin’s Signet and Quickness, but Quickness isn’t a thief problem and won’t hurt backstab builds in any way.

Assassin’s Signet synergizes with Backstab really well, but Backstab already hits very hard without it. Good concept, but just makes it kind of insane damage at times. I don’t really know what they could do to it to nerf it unless they lower the damage increase percentage to like 25% or something.

Yeah, I mention quickness more because I think it’ll get nerfed regardless of the current state of Thief, and it does affect any Thief that runs any form of Quickness (notably trait in Crit Strikes, Rage sigil, or Haste), which does include at least some backstab thieves. But you’re right, it isn’t a Thief specific issue. As for Assassin’s Signet, to me it seems nearly certain that it will get changed; like you, I also don’t know to what.

There is no defense against this burst damage so this is why it will get nerfed and a easy fix would be let them keep the burst but aoe and conditions break stealth and they can’t stealth with conditions on them.

Didn’t they already sorta nerf the backstab build? If I remember correctly from beta and other times, Assassins Signet was originally at 180% instead of 150%. They added a 2 sec cast time to basilisk venom, devourer venom immobilize from 3 sec to 2 sec, haste drains all endurance.

1st of all why is this thread even made? really? 2nd people calling for thief nerf is either ignorant or just completely oblivious of the class. And 3rd people calling for a thief nerf just needs to get better on their respective class. I swear if this is a VR game where your life is at stake(SAO) all of you here on the forum are long gone. dead.

Roll a thief with full dps build. Join tournaments against good(!) players. Make a full length video, where you show:
1. you survive most (if not all) fights where you choose to attack
2. you survive most (if not all) fights where you were attacked by another player or a group of enemies
3. you kill every enemy regardless of class and build in (what was it again?) 2s

You are talking about that here, aren’t you? So show us, please! If you can’t —> stop trolling, please.

50%+ of what you see in sPvP comes from the player and some moment of luck. If a thief is out of initiative, he’s 50% Moa’d already. The other 50% are a pathetic heal, 2-3 dodge rolls and auto-attack. Maybe a stealth ability on 48s CD. Think of it.

It’s pretty misleading for people to keep quoting our low HP/toughness and call us squishy.

Thieves have loads of evades and stealth itself. Those help our survivability a huge amount and are not things we need to sacrifice to achieve high burst.

Yadad.6925:

aoe and conditions break stealth and they can’t stealth with conditions on them.

Lmao, please tell me your trolling.

Lets be honest here for a second some action MMO games Tera DCUO etc have combat to the point where its all skill even the best “builds” can find themselves countered and fights take time. However, that takes time.

Now 3 seconds may be an eternity to some of you and one on one I could see that but some of us aren’t key mashers (and i am not using that term as an insult). Now pvp should be fast paced but honestly what are you really doing? You start a fight and end it before most players can even respond. Now that plays to many of your advantage which is speed.

Now honestly no matter how many buttons there are lets state the fact you hit 6 in a sequential order that maximized your dps and usually win. Frankittenhat is a skill but its not “skill”. It is a build designed to win and no matter what way you cut it that many others who are “less skilled” have dominated with.

Now I know elite players feel offended say L2P etc etc but how long have we been playing mmos? Every game the same thing a build or a class goes above and beyond the capabilities of another and eventually they get nerfed. As of this moment the only thing that has gotten nerfed is guardians defenses one by one and likely this trend will continue but in the long run thieves that burst down full defensive players don’t help but hurt the game and its pvp. The risk for the efforts is an in combat stealth and wait for the cds and so that it can be done again. By no means do I feel thief should be nerfed into the ground (as a play one P/D and well enough for me to not feel the qq over D/D) but that doesn’t change the facts. Any build that requires that much micro management in more than a 2 on 2 probably should not exist outside that environment.

The real question is why do “elite” players fear getting hit by a nerf? I have wondered this for many years as we see this situation all the time. If you truly are better at pvp whether the pace be fast or slow you should win shouldn’t you? Even if it was brought in line for the so called “care bears” and other terms of that nature should not a lick of difference as your skills would still be far superior?

TL;DR

If you truly are one of the best players then no matter the nerf or balancing you will always win on skill alone. Stop using the idea of a nerf as a crutch the truly skilled stay that way no matter the build end of story. If you truly look at the number of thieves in sPvP you realize its not the incredibly high skill threshold that keeps them coming back for more time with thief.

I counter them with my mesmer using my cloak skills however without those I can’t even use my attack or defensive skills simply because I have to target someone in other to use them. So really, a thief really already gets a freebie hit on me if I’m not cloaked.

I don’t mind them having that burst damage, But like like every other game. I expect a damage cap at least.

Side note For the few that say, The lowest hp and def make up for the high burst. What’s the excuse for my class then. We can make clones none stop but that doesn’t stop a “Smart” player from sorting us out.

TheGuy.3568:

Lets be honest here for a second some action MMO games Tera DCUO etc have combat to the point where its all skill even the best “builds” can find themselves countered and fights take time. However, that takes time.

Now 3 seconds may be an eternity to some of you and one on one I could see that but some of us aren’t key mashers (and i am not using that term as an insult). Now pvp should be fast paced but honestly what are you really doing? You start a fight and end it before most players can even respond. Now that plays to many of your advantage which is speed.

Now honestly no matter how many buttons there are lets state the fact you hit 6 in a sequential order that maximized your dps and usually win. Frankittenhat is a skill but its not “skill”. It is a build designed to win and no matter what way you cut it that many others who are “less skilled” have dominated with.

Now I know elite players feel offended say L2P etc etc but how long have we been playing mmos? Every game the same thing a build or a class goes above and beyond the capabilities of another and eventually they get nerfed. As of this moment the only thing that has gotten nerfed is guardians defenses one by one and likely this trend will continue but in the long run thieves that burst down full defensive players don’t help but hurt the game and its pvp. The risk for the efforts is an in combat stealth and wait for the cds and so that it can be done again. By no means do I feel thief should be nerfed into the ground (as a play one P/D and well enough for me to not feel the qq over D/D) but that doesn’t change the facts. Any build that requires that much micro management in more than a 2 on 2 probably should not exist outside that environment.

The real question is why do “elite” players fear getting hit by a nerf? I have wondered this for many years as we see this situation all the time. If you truly are better at pvp whether the pace be fast or slow you should win shouldn’t you? Even if it was brought in line for the so called “care bears” and other terms of that nature should not a lick of difference as your skills would still be far superior?

TL;DR

If you truly are one of the best players then no matter the nerf or balancing you will always win on skill alone. Stop using the idea of a nerf as a crutch the truly skilled stay that way no matter the build end of story. If you truly look at the number of thieves in sPvP you realize its not the incredibly high skill threshold that keeps them coming back for more time with thief.

So basically this massive lifestory is you saying, let’s balance the Thiefs around unskilled players so they have a chance, but it’s all good because the Elite players have to make-do with what’s left?

or

You could just learn, and get better.

[Joric.5376]

Roll a thief with full dps build. Join tournaments against good(!) players. Make a full length video, where you show:
1. you survive most (if not all) fights where you choose to attack
2. you survive most (if not all) fights where you were attacked by another player or a group of enemies
3. you kill every enemy regardless of class and build in (what was it again?) 2s

You are talking about that here, aren’t you? So show us, please! If you can’t —> stop trolling, please.

50%+ of what you see in sPvP comes from the player and some moment of luck. If a thief is out of initiative, he’s 50% Moa’d already. The other 50% are a pathetic heal, 2-3 dodge rolls and auto-attack. Maybe a stealth ability on 48s CD. Think of it.

this close enough?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9lSeC7IDsU

@bishopX: not sure, what’s the point of the video is… if you would like to check out the date of video? It’s old & outdated; and most population at that time is just green with gameplay. That being said, I feel that there have been way too much nerf on thiefs (vs. other classes) that I’ve had enough. I’ve moved on from thief to warrior. Thief is yester-year. 100blades anyday.

People cry about backstab, but really you still need to land it properly. If not the damage is nothing, because if we didn’t finish you instantly, then we’re open to attack which high chances will make us dead. It is surprising but thief die really fast if we don’t dodge or get back into stealth mode.

That is thief. we hit hard but when we get hitted, it felt like a truck. I kinda with the OP here, some part of it. Best not to listen to the whiners that only play one class.

@BishopX.6453

You can’t post an edited youtube video of a thief owning people, and expect people to see it as proof that the thief is overpowered.
Youtube clips (in 99% of the cases (pulled the nuber out of my kitten)) are basically highlight reels.
I don’t think anyone would post a youtube vid of them getting facerolled all over the place.

If you want to create proof that the thief is overpowered, you need a controlled enviroment, where the same result is achieved regardless of the circumstances.
This is not possible, even when playing a thief. Because they also die alot in pvp.

Roll a thief, and post an un-edited/un-cut video of you playing sPvP/WvW and show us how OP thief is. Since it (according to anyone who doesn’t play it) doesn’t require any skill, it shouldn’t be hard to just melt any and all opposition.

It’s not that I have no options that improve my defense and resilience to extend battles and my time to live and thereby kill. It’s just that with even one person outnumbering those tools become almost worthless. I get root, rag dolled, and dazed into the ground and just chuckle as I type a great job out for the opponents to give props where due. Well, at least in sets that don’t run a sword mainland where you get out of everything with infiltrator’s.

To be honest they really need to “boost” the damage of certain skills rather than nerf, I don’t know if I’m right or wrong be shouldn’t a rogue class be doing even more damage than a warrior cause something just isn’t right here. But if this isn’t the case for ever nerf to our damage that Anet has given to thieves they need to increase our HP by 5000 and our toughness by 100…..I’m serious Anet…..do it.

So let me see – insane burst, high mobility, more ways to get out of trouble and into stealth than you can shake a stick at…

There will be more nerfs. That is guaranteed. The community wants them and the community gets what it wants.

People…

Please get Power/Toughness/Vitality gear.
As in, all of your gear uses these three traits.

Now go duel a backstab spec’d Thief in your guild in sPvP.

Let him equip all glass cannon gear, and see how well he is able to kill you.

Then come back and post your screen shot of how you won or lost the duel.

Then discuss if you still think it’s a problem.

The PvP gear is there for a reason.

All the backstab videos, all the big crits, all the whiners, all come from a fully burst spec Thief attacking a fully burst spec other player. When you get the jump on those Thieves, you kill them in 2-3 hits too; the difference is the Thief gets the opener more often, so you cry about it instead of picking up the gear specifically put in for PvP. I encounter plenty of burst Thief builds and each time I see them hit me hard for that initial burst, I focus fire them and down them in 2 hits – with Power/Toughness/Vitality gear. I still hit just as hard, just don’t crit as hard, and go figure they die almost as fast as if I were fully burst spec.

I love the people that try to be smart and say “then go play a thief”.

I play a thief in spvp and constantly kill tank guardians under a second. I hit targets with 2k toughness for 8k crits and glass cannons for up to 13k. they die in a second, before the can even react. in tourneys that means I can remove 1 target from the fight which is a huge advantage. my thief is far from useless after I blow my burst, I just cant instagib anyone anymore in the meantime but that does not make it useless.

you cant deny this hard fact, it is pointless and makes you look bad. I am pretty sure that more thief nerfs will come, get used to it.