Dont nerf D/P

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Mintyfreshsmell.1568

Mintyfreshsmell.1568

I keep seeing all the topics to nerf the D/P because its been at the top tolong on Thieves. Why not just make everything else better? Every weapon IMO other than D/P needs to be completely reworked into something better. Hell even staff needs some touches here and their.

Also what makes the D/P combo so great is EVERY ability is great and has a use. No other thief weapon combo is like this and it’s ability line up so tight. My plea is for Anet to rework the Thief weapons other than D/P.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Westenev.5289

Westenev.5289

I agree. Some classes, such as Engi, Dragonhunter or Druid, can even laugh off a d/p assault. The idea that one weaponset must be nerfed to make another meta is absurd – what we should be thinking about is how to allow other weapons to fit niche roles in a modern battlefield, not how to cut our arm off while regrowing another.

After all, it is unlikely Sword/Dagger, Sword/Pistol, Pistol/Pistol, Staff or Pistol/Dagger will ever be used in conjunction with Dagger/Pistol outside of personal preference (because the shortbow is just that strong in terms of escape ability). So why do weapons HAVE to be mutually exclusive?

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

nerf d/p, nerf it hard into the ground, yeah

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Sanadar.8327

Sanadar.8327

They should really nerf d/p, it is a brainless weapon set with zero flaws, blind thru blocks, interrupts, on demand stealth, one of the best auto attacks if not the best and promote skill less gameplay with ghost teefing and black powder dodgers

l2p other weapon sets, d/d is great, staff is kinda op, s/d needs work and there is always p/p for the unskilled ones.

I main teef and i approve this nerf.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Menyus.4610

Menyus.4610

No sorry we thieves got nerfed so many times its our fetish, like please ahhhhh nerf meee ahhhhh nerf me to make my other weapon sets good, ahhhh give other classes more reveal yeeeeaaaaah im coming……

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

They should really nerf d/p, it is a brainless weapon set with zero flaws, blind thru blocks, interrupts, on demand stealth, one of the best auto attacks if not the best and promote skill less gameplay with ghost teefing and black powder dodgers

l2p other weapon sets, d/d is great, staff is kinda op, s/d needs work and there is always p/p for the unskilled ones.

I main teef and i approve this nerf.

^^Another person that doesn’t play at higher tiers in pvp. If d/p is so brainless and broken why don’t we see it rolling over everything in Pro League and why do people still throw tantrum when they see double thieves on same team?

The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Madessin.9173

Madessin.9173

They should really nerf d/p, it is a brainless weapon set with zero flaws, blind thru blocks, interrupts, on demand stealth, one of the best auto attacks if not the best and promote skill less gameplay with ghost teefing and black powder dodgers

l2p other weapon sets, d/d is great, staff is kinda op, s/d needs work and there is always p/p for the unskilled ones.

I main teef and i approve this nerf.

I have no idea what I’m talking about: the post.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: The Game Slayer.7632

The Game Slayer.7632

The problem, if there even is one, does not lie with d/p weapon skills. Those are fine. It’s the absurdly strong traits that lie with all of the classes, including thief. DD and acro are beyond a little broken right now, but they shouldn’t be touched unless other broken traits for other classes get touched as well. That’s never going to happen, so learn to adapt.

I am a teef
:)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Sanadar.8327

Sanadar.8327

They should really nerf d/p, it is a brainless weapon set with zero flaws, blind thru blocks, interrupts, on demand stealth, one of the best auto attacks if not the best and promote skill less gameplay with ghost teefing and black powder dodgers

l2p other weapon sets, d/d is great, staff is kinda op, s/d needs work and there is always p/p for the unskilled ones.

I main teef and i approve this nerf.

^^Another person that doesn’t play at higher tiers in pvp. If d/p is so brainless and broken why don’t we see it rolling over everything in Pro League and why do people still throw tantrum when they see double thieves on same team?

The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.

I never said D/P was broken in fact i have beaten countless D/P teefs using the “hipster” D/D build “power” and im actually having little to no problem fighting them with my current build but i wanna see a change in the meta, D/P has been the top weapon set since launch, D/D was a merely 2 to 3 months meta back on launch and when ppl learned how to combo BP with HS no one looked back.

All i want is whats best for the class, if its buffing other sets i welcome it, if its nerfing D/P i welcome it too but we need diversity already…

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Tomiyou.3790

Tomiyou.3790

Well, sucks to be you, but thief is probably gonna receive nerfs in the next patch. Majority of the people in top 100 believe thief is OP at the moment.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: JonnyForgotten.4276

JonnyForgotten.4276

“The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.”

Lol, I can beat d/p with my d/d build. . . all about the timing.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Shadowstep.6049

Shadowstep.6049

“The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.”

Lol, I can beat d/p with my d/d build. . . all about the timing.

and yet it is mainly d/d players that beg for d/p nerfs~

rest of the pvp community is happy to see thief or two on enemy team – weee free win

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

D/P shouldn’t get a nerf, but stealth stacking particularly by a field should. Stealth has always been borked in GW2. No class should come in and out of stealth as easily as is done in this game. Course I also think stealth should slow a player down not speed them up.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

“The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.”

Lol, I can beat d/p with my d/d build. . . all about the timing.

and yet it is mainly d/d players that beg for d/p nerfs~

rest of the pvp community is happy to see thief or two on enemy team – weee free win

I find D/P players usually easier kills than anything else on D/D.

The nerf requests for D/P usually don’t come from D/D players because they’re countered lol. It’s typically because D/P will always be the best set unless it’s just made terrible and generally speaking people from other professions find it dumb (spamming 3/4 for wins against professions without extensive multi-hit effects/stability like Necro, other thieves, etc. or those who simply dislike the amount of dependency on stability/boons there is in the game currently (AKA almost every pro league PvP player in recent years, including thieves)) and those who don’t like to play D/P don’t want to be locked into it for the sole reason it’s just so much better than everything else and thus the thief can’t see room for improvement profession-wide.

Plastering D/D players alone is kind of ridiculous when literally everyone not playing D/P or those who prefer other sets thinks the same thing.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

Shadow Shot needs a nerf, that’s really the bottom line, it just deals too much damage for its cost.

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Shadowstep.6049

Shadowstep.6049

D/P shouldn’t get a nerf, but stealth stacking particularly by a field should. Stealth has always been borked in GW2. No class should come in and out of stealth as easily as is done in this game. Course I also think stealth should slow a player down not speed them up.

…and so you would kill thieves as roamers (only role they have) in pvp. Good that you don’t balance this game.

Shadow Shot needs a nerf, that’s really the bottom line, it just deals too much damage for its cost.

in comparison to other classes? not really

“The reason why people cry for d/p nerfs is because they can’t beat it on their hipster d/d buils. I am all up for buffing other sets but it is just stupid to ask for nerfs for only set that keeps thieves somehow viable in pvp.”

Lol, I can beat d/p with my d/d build. . . all about the timing.

and yet it is mainly d/d players that beg for d/p nerfs~

rest of the pvp community is happy to see thief or two on enemy team – weee free win

I find D/P players usually easier kills than anything else on D/D.

The nerf requests for D/P usually don’t come from D/D players because they’re countered lol. It’s typically because D/P will always be the best set unless it’s just made terrible and generally speaking people from other professions find it dumb (spamming 3/4 for wins against professions without extensive multi-hit effects/stability like Necro, other thieves, etc. or those who simply dislike the amount of dependency on stability/boons there is in the game currently (AKA almost every pro league PvP player in recent years, including thieves)) and those who don’t like to play D/P don’t want to be locked into it for the sole reason it’s just so much better than everything else and thus the thief can’t see room for improvement profession-wide.

Plastering D/D players alone is kind of ridiculous when literally everyone not playing D/P or those who prefer other sets thinks the same thing.

There was time everyone and their mother played S/D, d/p barely changed since then so it is not entirely true that d/p will be always superior. “Everyone” ? You speak for whole thief community now?

Bottom line, all i see is cries to nerf only team oriented set that makes thief somehow viable in pvp. Why not just ask to delete thief from pvp all together? Season 1 anyone? Also if d/p is that OP go play core dp, lets see how OP it is.

And yes i will “plaster” d/d mains because it is mostly them asking for d/p nerfs from my experience so far.

(edited by Shadowstep.6049)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

…and so you would kill thieves as roamers (only role they have) in pvp. Good that you don’t balance this game.

I run three different non-stealth thief builds that are potent. SA and Trickery while potent in their own way are not mandatory. Besides stealth stacking isn’t necessary to quality stealth play. Prior to the D/D nerfs it used to be a strong weaponset and didn’t need and rarely used stacking. IMO stealth stacking just breeds weak cheese play (see Ghost Thief for a solid example) and this also includes Mesmers not just thieves.

No other AAA MMO allows players to have massive stealth uptime both before and after an attack.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

Everyone and their mother played S/D because Acro was busted with it, particularly at higher-but-not-pro-level play during S2 from all the D/D boon elementalists, and the build at the time both hard-countered said meta via pre-casted LS engages with BT (stealing two sets of stacked boons and 3 duration boons) and wasn’t difficult to play because of it (and remember folks, this was during a time when a 25s cooldown was considered short and 50% prot uptime was a big deal).

D/P, however, has remained the best set, because even during the S/D dominance period, D/P was still almost exclusively played by the best thieves in the game because they knew it was still better. the kit does the role better and is better-suited in more situations. S/D got smacked around as soon as it dealt with a proper damage build, but those didn’t exist in the bunker meta because most people just copy builds from those who stream and win.

As far as telling me to play “core” D/P, the only thief that I run with any more purpose than screwing around doesn’t even have Daredevil unlocked. I’ve pretty consistently beaten Legendary/Diamond D/P Daredevils who claim to be amazing thieves by just using Shadow Shot and dodges at the right times on a core build. While I can’t speak for every D/P player (because it’s the best set also run by the best players), most of them are straight terrible and win fights solely via build strength on Shadow Shot’s damage coefficient and combined easy pressure capabilities or smashing the 4 key proccing PI with some AA chains between either when they run out of initiative.

Considering a proper +1 engage from D/P prior to the AA changes and nerfs to stealth attacks via the ICD didn’t even include Shadow Shot being used for damage (a la flight-casted backstabs), I don’t really see what merit your argument has aside from claiming that it’s justified in power creep. But I don’t stand for power creep anywhere, even on my own build/profession (thus my refusal of Daredevil/almost all HoT content), because I’d rather see good and balanced gameplay than anything that encourages mindless spam.

Which is why, most level-headed people, realize a 20-25% nerf in damage on Shadow Shot and a short (3s?) ICD on PI would probably remove a lot of the efficacy of spamming skills on the profession while having almost zero effect on actually-good players because the utility itself that solely makes D/P so strong wouldn’t be reduced at all.

(edited by DeceiverX.8361)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: RegalRed.3720

RegalRed.3720

The title of this Topic made me throw up a little … nerf this easy to use kitten.. it’s mindless and tired and the only ones who think it’s worth anything are the idiots who havn’t realized theire playing the easiest weapon combo in the game and main it having the nerve to call themselves “good thieves” without knowing that it takes 99% less skill to play then any other weapon setup for thief. Perma stealth with no consequence, stupid high damg that should be lower then thieves wielding d/d or s/d… anything that won’t give u gay kitten perma stealth from a distance like the little kitten who playis this d/p kitten kitten … nerf the kitten out of this nonsense.. give the perma stealth kitten build consequence for hiding like a little kitten and get rid at that spammy kitten interrupt that’s responsible for giving everyone brain tumors like the one the idiot who designed this bullkitten has… “fights” are not fights versus this weapon combo.. truely puts the Games’ name to shame.

-kitten whoever made d/p and kitten the kittenes who play it

,Disgusting

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Shadowstep.6049

Shadowstep.6049

…and so you would kill thieves as roamers (only role they have) in pvp. Good that you don’t balance this game.

I run three different non-stealth thief builds that are potent. SA and Trickery while potent in their own way are not mandatory. Besides stealth stacking isn’t necessary to quality stealth play. Prior to the D/D nerfs it used to be a strong weaponset and didn’t need and rarely used stacking. IMO stealth stacking just breeds weak cheese play (see Ghost Thief for a solid example) and this also includes Mesmers not just thieves.

No other AAA MMO allows players to have massive stealth uptime both before and after an attack.

Did you even read what i said? Did you even read what you said? You want thieves to be slow in stealth. What is thieves job in pvp? To roam. How do they do it? Stealth up and run to other point while enemy hopefully can’t see them. If your suggestion would be implemented, thief as roamer would be dead and as a fighter they are garbage currently.

Nobody uses SA nor ghost thief in pvp – get out of your wvw mentality, jeez. It is not the only game mode out here and stealth stacking is not an issue in pvp.

@RegalRed.3720: that’s a lot of kittens there that made no sense lol

@DeceiverX.8361: how do you want thief to compete in current madness of HoT specs? Do you have any solution besides omg plz nerf this because i think it is faceroll? Won’t affect “good” thieves? You know what happened in s1 when thief wasn’t so great? All those “good” thieves were playing revs. If your suggestions would be implemented we would just see them reroll something else, backstab was kind of garbage and is even more garbage now after the changes. If you check pvp forums atm btw even dev told player to reroll from thief to something else if he wants to win games.

I also love how you base your whole argument on beating some random legendary/diamond thieves in duels. Pvp is not about thief duels….. /facepalm

(edited by Shadowstep.6049)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

Did you even read what i said? Did you even read what you said? You want thieves to be slow in stealth. What is thieves job in pvp? To roam. How do they do it? Stealth up and run to other point while enemy hopefully can’t see them. If your suggestion would be implemented, thief as roamer would be dead and as a fighter they are garbage currently.

Instead of limiting stealth stacking in some way like every other MMO, ANet has systematically dismantled thief builds to compensate for the inherent imbalance in stealth stacking. Currently a thief can move faster in stealth, launch an attack with no notice and within a couple seconds disappear into the wind with so few counters they can be counted on one hand. This means any advantage a thief has becomes greatly magnified making the class ridiculously difficult to balance. Boost a small aspect and the class completely dominates in a small scale fight.

As long as stealth stacking remains as strong as it is, ANet will effectively be forced to limit most other aspects of the thief class instead of fixing an OP mechanic. The side effect is that thieves become ever more reliant on a frankly ridiculous implementation of stealth.

We are now smack in the middle of a chicken/egg scenario… nerf stealth an they kill the thief as it is. Boost abilities to create a more robust dueling thief, OP the stealth variants. They need to do both. Limit or create disadvantages to stealth stacking in some way AND rollback several nerfs the class has seen over the last three or so years.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

(edited by Straegen.2938)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: DeceiverX.8361

DeceiverX.8361

…and so you would kill thieves as roamers (only role they have) in pvp. Good that you don’t balance this game.

I run three different non-stealth thief builds that are potent. SA and Trickery while potent in their own way are not mandatory. Besides stealth stacking isn’t necessary to quality stealth play. Prior to the D/D nerfs it used to be a strong weaponset and didn’t need and rarely used stacking. IMO stealth stacking just breeds weak cheese play (see Ghost Thief for a solid example) and this also includes Mesmers not just thieves.

No other AAA MMO allows players to have massive stealth uptime both before and after an attack.

Did you even read what i said? Did you even read what you said? You want thieves to be slow in stealth. What is thieves job in pvp? To roam. How do they do it? Stealth up and run to other point while enemy hopefully can’t see them. If your suggestion would be implemented, thief as roamer would be dead and as a fighter they are garbage currently.

Nobody uses SA nor ghost thief in pvp – get out of your wvw mentality, jeez. It is not the only game mode out here and stealth stacking is not an issue in pvp.

@RegalRed.3720: that’s a lot of kittens there that made no sense lol

@DeceiverX.8361: how do you want thief to compete in current madness of HoT specs? Do you have any solution besides omg plz nerf this because i think it is faceroll? Won’t affect “good” thieves? You know what happened in s1 when thief wasn’t so great? All those “good” thieves were playing revs. If your suggestions would be implemented we would just see them reroll something else, backstab was kind of garbage and is even more garbage now after the changes. If you check pvp forums atm btw even dev told player to reroll from thief to something else if he wants to win games.

I also love how you base your whole argument on beating some random legendary/diamond thieves in duels. Pvp is not about thief duels….. /facepalm

By your logic, I guess we should also not request for DH nerfs ever because it’s not OP despite being faceroll easy and by far having the highest win rate per profession since it’s not demanding at all. We should never nerf anything if it’s low-risk : high-reward because that’d be unjustified.

The thief will never see improvements on the profession-level so long as D/P remains as it is. And quite frankly everything pertaining to HoT needs to be toned down. The game has no hope competitively if it wants to keep fueling this power-creep nonsense to cater to players who refuse to accept nerfs to enable more build diversity within their own professions.

Backstab was potentially the best single-target burst in the game pre-HoT. Again, comparing things to HoT content is kind of stupid when all of HoT is blatantly busted and needs to be nerfed, anyways.

The thief in S1 was better than it is now. It has just as much evasion and the same landspeed/point decap potential via shortbow (and better skills on D/P), and other professions had way less mobility to catch up. The profession has never been able to play a defensive game or 1v1 on-point except during the few months leading up to and after launch (when CnD, Crit Strikes, Mug, and Assassin’s Signet were massively overpowered), so it’s not like anything has changed since for the better. Daredevil just makes it less-prone to dying if the player makes a mistake and improves 1v1 potential… primarily for D/P.

Like I said, Shadow Shot and PI aren’t carrying the thief. It’s carrying bad players who play the thief which spam these abilities and keep the rest of the profession held back in balance passes. If people started whining about the thief not having any good builds because Shadow Shot and PI got nerfed, then either we’d see some profession-wide buffs that wouldn’t make every non-thief salty, or the majority of D/P players would actually need to learn how to play well.

You literally tried to attack my skill level by telling me to go play core believing it would be trash in combat. Considering the entire purpose of the thief in PvP is to not fight on even numbers, it speaks volumes about winning when fighting fair against measurably-good players, reflecting what I said about the majority of the D/P population needing to L2P.

Dont nerf D/P

in Thief

Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

The thief will never see improvements on the profession-level so long as D/P remains as it is. And quite frankly everything pertaining to HoT needs to be toned down. The game has no hope competitively if it wants to keep fueling this power-creep nonsense to cater to players who refuse to accept nerfs to enable more build diversity within their own professions.

I think we are on the same page in a way. I think stealth stacking from the BP/HS/Bound needs a fix and the AA damage should be rolled back. They should roll back the ICD on the Backstab as well. I am on the fence with Shadowshot. I see your earlier points but I hate to gut one of a weapon’s main offensive attacks when it might not be necessary.

The problem as I see D/P is that is just too much of everything… too offensive and defensive at the same time. Lowering the skill floor with the AA bump was backwards thinking from ANet IMO.

I agree with you about the DH skill floor… nothing should be that easy to play and that effective. I could smear peanut butter on my keyboard and watch my golden retriever mow down opponents with a DH as it cleaned it off.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: Shadowstep.6049

Shadowstep.6049

@DeceiverX.8361: love how you put words in my mouth for the sake of argument, so pathetic.
If they nerf other HoT specs, yes i think DD should be nerfed. I however do not see issue with d/p itself.
The problem is, all i see is cries for d/p nerfs from d/d players without actually any suggestions for other classes.
Thief was NOT better off in S1….. did you even play s1 or you are just posting random clueless crap? Other profs actually had more mobility (sup revs).
Thief actually was decent point fighter until nerfs to BP, headshot etc. started to happen and celestial amy became a thing. I remember during hambow meta i was on a team and my main job was to run to far at begin of the match and kill whatever was there, regardless the class. A LOT changed since then. So why are you making stuff up? Why are you lying?

Nobody argues that DD and really any HoT specs made professions braindead but doesn’t mean that original weapon set should be nerfed to the ground because of 1 trait line. It just pushes core spec even further back.

I love how you call players bad, who are you to call other bad? What credibility do you have actually besides putting words in other poster’s mouth and spreading straight out lies?

S1-S2 was really bad for thieves, literary nobody was playing the class besides few hipsters (myself including, and yes i was playing core in s1). Did much change since then? NO. Other weapon sets got worse actually, yes there was some AA buff but they also nerfed all stealth attacks. At the end thief is still huge liability in pvp. Nerfing prof to the ground will not produce any positive results because devs simply don’t know what to do with this professions and it is THEIR words (stream from last year). Thief ALREADY was in terrible state and it hardly produced any good results so idk why all these d/d mains begging for d/p nerfs have some weird illusion that devs all of sudden will buff d/d. Did past not teach you anything at all?

I didn’t attack your skill level, i just wanted you to go experience how “OP” the weapon set is you complain so much about, especially when it is not supported by broken HoT spec. Because frankly it is not OP given the current state of classes.

Once again, who are you to tell thief community to l2p. Who are you to judge? What have you accomplished besides doing some wvw duels and posting misinformation on forums?

(edited by Shadowstep.6049)

Dont nerf D/P

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

Right now there is no way Anet will rebalance every profession, currently it isn’t the fact D/P is over performing but that D/P is the only set that Can perform at a similar level to what kits the other Classes have. To make other weapon sets viable they would either need to rework them and buff them or to nerf every class on top of reigning in D/P a bit.

I don’t see Karl or the rest of the Devs needing all classes, but they will still add arbitrary buffs so look to get a weapon set buffed.