Guild Wars 2

Over my 1200+ hours of playing GW2 (1000 of those put into solo roaming as a mesmer) I’ve come to hate thieves with a burning passion of a thousand suns. As a shatter Mesmer player, fighting S/D thieves and P/D thieves (Dire gear usually) was literally like looking Satan in the face and saying “Come at me bro.”

I’ve always told myself I’d never play one for as long as I lived. Now, over the past two weeks I’ve had a very important friend ask me to make one. After a lot of persuasion (and seduction) I said yes. I believe that other than satisfying my friends need, I will learn to understand the way a thief player thinks and will overall play better when facing them.

Now I’m the kind of player who likes to challenge themselves. Risk and Reward builds are something I value most, thus I have no intentions of playing P/D thief. I am however looking for a thief build which will challenge me the most in WvW as a solo roamer.

I’m here today asking for examples of (power) builds which will challenge me as a player and also help improve as a whole. Thank you.

First I´m happy to see you here trying to undestand and learn thief, it´s more then most players are going for.
Because you main Mesmer you should first try S/D evade (20066). I would say that you benifit most to know how that works. How much gold you want to efford into this? strength/pack is usually the best for it.

Favourite build video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdx-ovYCqhQ
S/D and D/D, D/P are power builds – but a lot of thieves now use SB as their second weaponset, that’s why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-tSlT2ZKdw
Another example for thief with SB, chose this video because it was recorded after the april patch and uses SB. He plays P/D in this, not sure if really condi or if that’s his celestial build. (I don’t really like P/D that’s why I didn’t pay attention to it).

All 3 weaponsets have got a different playstyle so it’s very hard to say “this or that weaponset is the most challenging and you won’t be a real thief unless you have mastered it” as maybe even a master of P/P can be dangerous. (P/P is the worst set, no matter what anyone says, so maybe that’s the most challenging – I still wouldn’t use it though ; )) So, try it out and see what suits you best.

If you want to challenge yourself, play a P/P thief. Just staying alive is a rewarding challenge.

P/P for life, yo.

edit: i’ve played nothing BUT P/P in wvw. One day. One day anet will reward me.

I think some P/P thief trashed me but it wasn’t a 1v1, so I’m not willing to call him a master.

D/D, full glass (or close to it) + SB and no stealth utilities. Pretty challenging to stay alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp0pFOxrJ8PNRLh4972z19Rg++C-TVSBwAPOEAmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/Ae9BLeAAAOBABAQAuZb2m3MgbezjezjezSBIoyI-w

Maugetarr.6823:

D/D, full glass (or close to it) + SB and no stealth utilities. Pretty challenging to stay alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp0pFOxrJ8PNRLh4972z19Rg++C-TVSBwAPOEAmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/Ae9BLeAAAOBABAQAuZb2m3MgbezjezjezSBIoyI-w

I wonder why… that build is focussed on dodging not dealing damage.

Its so hard to pick between S/D and D/P. I’ve tried out S/D, and the evades are amazing, and I see why its hard to burst down. D/P also had a lot of burst potential, but I’ve noticed its somewhat easy to see coming. P/P was fun for pve, but im not gonna take it into wvw, and I find D/D to be a bit odd. Dagger offhand skills feel very useless.

I’ve noticed that without food, most builds have 40-45% crit chance and also have Valkyrie gear. Why don’t thieves run bull berserker gear or berserker assassin mix? I’m used to running around with a minimum of 50% critical change even at the cost of a bit of vitality. I also don’t like having to need a signet for mobility, so how do traveler runes look on a thief, or is that a dumb idea?

S/D thieves usually run zerkers which makes sense as that build isn’t for critical hits. I’ve also met some full zerker D/P thieves. Valk has got the advantage that it has got some more vitality and D/P and D/D usually rely on backstabs which have got a 100% critical hit chance anyway as one usually uses hidden killer as a trait. So you have the extra vitality. Around 50% citical hit chance is enough, I ran with assassin weapons at first and sigil of perception until I found that I don’t really need 60% critical hit chance and switched to zerkers and sigil of bloodlust (few thieves do that I think most go for air and fire but I like stacking sigils for whatever reason) for more power.
The advantage of D/D is that it takes less initative to stealth, it is faster due to only one skill and the stealth lasts longer. It’s harder to pull off though. And a D/P thief can trash me if there aren’t enough things to CnD on around.
I think most thieves are okay with “running around slowly”, they use infiltrator’s signet, steal, shortbow, runes of the pack or whatever to get to their target. I’m a bad thief, I use signet of shadows, can’t get used to anything else.

As S/D its really easy to stack swiftness, dodge around, use the “forward” withdraw to gain vigor, use steal to gain more swiftness, infiltrators arrow etc, everything is ready again in few sec.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

\ thus I have no intentions of playing P/D thief.

applaud

you make a lot of mistake and not too sure what is going yet ? 2/0/6/0/6 for sustains.

you want to hurt people ? 2/6/0/0/6

you only care about blood? 5/6/0/0/3

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

D/D, full glass (or close to it) + SB and no stealth utilities. Pretty challenging to stay alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp0pFOxrJ8PNRLh4972z19Rg++C-TVSBwAPOEAmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/Ae9BLeAAAOBABAQAuZb2m3MgbezjezjezSBIoyI-w

I wonder why… that build is focussed on dodging not dealing damage.

How is it not focused on dealing damage?

Maugetarr.6823:

How is it not focused on dealing damage?

No damage related Grandmaster trait. I don’t really get why you chose the exposed weakness when you aren’t really dealing condition damage. But since you’re using venoms, why didn’t you chose residual venom? You can switch from feline grace to Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew if you want the extra dodge and can put the one point into a Grandmaster trait = more power and a more useful trait.
But alas, that’s just my opinion and maybe you can make this build work but I’m pretty sure that it needs a pro.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

How is it not focused on dealing damage?

No damage related Grandmaster trait. I don’t really get why you chose the exposed weakness when you aren’t really dealing condition damage. But since you’re using venoms, why didn’t you chose residual venom? You can switch from feline grace to Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew if you want the extra dodge and can put the one point into a Grandmaster trait = more power and a more useful trait.
But alas, that’s just my opinion and maybe you can make this build work but I’m pretty sure that it needs a pro.

Good questions:

1) The 10% damage takes effect with any condition, and modifies damage, not condition damage, so it’s almost always active.

2) I find that the duration of venoms and the way they work render residual venoms useless. With DV at 5 seconds of immob, people usually either clear it (meaning all the stacks) or they die. The way BV works, 2 stacks is usually meaningless.

3) Feline grace is better for burst dodging when you get put into a rough spot, especially combined with SoA because you also get 3 dodges after the use instead of 2 and faster refill. If I were to switch that though, I would use panic strike for more immob. Using feline grace though lets you use this in PvP as well where you don’t have food.

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

How is it not focused on dealing damage?

No damage related Grandmaster trait. I don’t really get why you chose the exposed weakness when you aren’t really dealing condition damage. But since you’re using venoms, why didn’t you chose residual venom? You can switch from feline grace to Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew if you want the extra dodge and can put the one point into a Grandmaster trait = more power and a more useful trait.
But alas, that’s just my opinion and maybe you can make this build work but I’m pretty sure that it needs a pro.

Good questions:

1) The 10% damage takes effect with any condition, and modifies damage, not condition damage, so it’s almost always active.

2) I find that the duration of venoms and the way they work render residual venoms useless. With DV at 5 seconds of immob, people usually either clear it (meaning all the stacks) or they die. The way BV works, 2 stacks is usually meaningless.

3) Feline grace is better for burst dodging when you get put into a rough spot, especially combined with SoA because you also get 3 dodges after the use instead of 2 and faster refill. If I were to switch that though, I would use panic strike for more immob. Using feline grace though lets you use this in PvP as well where you don’t have food.

1) Yeah, that was what I meant. I understood that the target gets “more vulnerable” when it has got a condition, I just don’t see that many conditions in a D/D build, even with venoms. I just wondered why you didn’t get a master trait in the acrobatics line instead (or a grandmaster in the power line). (see 3))

2) You miss out on 50 extra power by not using the full line and don’t have a grandmaster trait.
Having a hard time with the abbreviations, so I guess I can’t say anything to that until I’ve looked them up

3) The OP asked for wvw roaming advise, for pvp you’re of course right, food is useless there. But I didn’t know that this build was meant for pvp which is kind of different from wvw roaming.

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

Jana.6831:

Maugetarr.6823:

How is it not focused on dealing damage?

No damage related Grandmaster trait. I don’t really get why you chose the exposed weakness when you aren’t really dealing condition damage. But since you’re using venoms, why didn’t you chose residual venom? You can switch from feline grace to Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew if you want the extra dodge and can put the one point into a Grandmaster trait = more power and a more useful trait.
But alas, that’s just my opinion and maybe you can make this build work but I’m pretty sure that it needs a pro.

Good questions:

1) The 10% damage takes effect with any condition, and modifies damage, not condition damage, so it’s almost always active.

2) I find that the duration of venoms and the way they work render residual venoms useless. With DV at 5 seconds of immob, people usually either clear it (meaning all the stacks) or they die. The way BV works, 2 stacks is usually meaningless.

3) Feline grace is better for burst dodging when you get put into a rough spot, especially combined with SoA because you also get 3 dodges after the use instead of 2 and faster refill. If I were to switch that though, I would use panic strike for more immob. Using feline grace though lets you use this in PvP as well where you don’t have food.

1) Yeah, that was what I meant. I understood that the target gets “more vulnerable” when it has got a condition, I just don’t see that many conditions in a D/D build, even with venoms. I just wondered why you didn’t get a master trait in the acrobatics line instead (or a grandmaster in the power line). (see 3))

2) You miss out on 50 extra power by not using the full line and don’t have a grandmaster trait.
Having a hard time with the abbreviations, so I guess I can’t say anything to that until I’ve looked them up

3) The OP asked for wvw roaming advise, for pvp you’re of course right, food is useless there. But I didn’t know that this build was meant for pvp which is kind of different from wvw roaming.

1)13 seconds of poison on steal, 5 seconds of poison on AA chain, 5 seconds of weakness on poison, 6ish seconds of vuln on CnD, and if you accidently hit 3 or 4, 12 seconds of bleed and 3 seconds of cripple respectively. On D/D, the only attack that doesn’t have a condition tied to it is HS. Devourer venom also triggers the trait.

2) Devourer Venom (immob), Basilisk Venom (stun). Edit: You also end up with a net gain of power in this build because I am using power food (additional 100 power) with the feline grace as opposed to taking the Stew (no additional power from food, additional 50 from trait points). None of the grandmaster traits (except maybe revealed training) warrants the loss of feline grace combined with the vigor uptime (imo).

3) I have used this build for both. OP did not mention finishing leveling to 80 yet, but can always take this into hotjoin to give it a whirl in the learning process or before they shell out money for gear.

Right, I forgot the complete steal range ; )

Well, that is his choice – who am I to judge what he wants?
I’m just thinking that I couldn’t make it work and well I’m allowed to use stealth, so I don’t need to find a way around it and I can also use food.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

Its so hard to pick between S/D and D/P.

Why not play both in the same build, S/D and D/P work well together.

DoomKnightMax.6592:

Why don’t thieves run bull berserker gear or berserker assassin mix? I’m used to running around with a minimum of 50% critical change even at the cost of a bit of vitality. I also don’t like having to need a signet for mobility, so how do traveler runes look on a thief, or is that a dumb idea?

Well, thieves don’t need high crit chance that much if they use hidden killer and most people prefer to have extra survivability. Traveler runes are okay, you lose some dmg but it’s not that bad.

Maugetarr.6823:

D/D, full glass (or close to it) + SB and no stealth utilities. Pretty challenging to stay alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp0pFOxrJ8PNRLh4972z19Rg++C-TVSBwAPOEAmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/Ae9BLeAAAOBABAQAuZb2m3MgbezjezjezSBIoyI-w

Ahem, this is how you do full glass.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl8MpxpFOxzJ8PNRLRtdIMCfgXnh2PQAEiA-T1BEABGcGAYa/R5Xb6DA4QAQwDAIR1f2SJYAAEgb2mt5NDcezbezbezzv9tv9tv9NpAiYYF-w

Ancient video, really should make a new one at some point, but enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9d4Og8KbEM&list=UUA7Mu3BNpy2CXIxFlExyRXQ

yski.7642:

Maugetarr.6823:

D/D, full glass (or close to it) + SB and no stealth utilities. Pretty challenging to stay alive.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl0Mp0pFOxrJ8PNRLh4972z19Rg++C-TVSBwAPOEAmVCG5IAcT9HsK/Iu/Ae9BLeAAAOBABAQAuZb2m3MgbezjezjezSBIoyI-w

Ahem, this is how you do full glass.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVl8MpxpFOxzJ8PNRLRtdIMCfgXnh2PQAEiA-T1BEABGcGAYa/R5Xb6DA4QAQwDAIR1f2SJYAAEgb2mt5NDcezbezbezzv9tv9tv9NpAiYYF-w

Ancient video, really should make a new one at some point, but enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9d4Og8KbEM&list=UUA7Mu3BNpy2CXIxFlExyRXQ

Haha, yes. That’s the wiggle room for “close to it.” It really doesn’t get glassier than your link though.

And make more.

Maugetarr.6823:

And make more.

I second this! =)

Welcome to the thieves. And don’t feel wary about stating your hate on us. Thieves get a lot of hate.

-whispers- Sometimes, we try to encourage hate to make the enemy so full of rage they fumble for our easy kills. Dirty fighters, we are.

So far I’ve liked all the builds posted. I’ve tried them in spvp and they are super fun! S/D doesn’t feel so smooth, so I’m probably gonna go for a D/D build, running full glass cannon. The 5 might stacks on signet use is amazing. I like the idea of being able to I shot, or get 1 shotted. I probably will be going for Yski’s build, but because the gear difference isn’t too big ill try them all out in WvW eventually.

Thankyou guys so much for your help!
I’ll keep bugging you guys if I need any more help.

This build is generally very fun and the amount of dmg it deals always brings a smile to my face
It’s a S/P 2/6/0/0/6 build
this is my dmg spec
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsaVl0Mp7pVOx0J8PNBNBt9wbQE8OMfpMaFAA-TF0EABQ8AAYTHAiqE42hAIUlgMpEyEtALpUwJlEBcCA4QTQKq78kyEb2fQijAAAmgEA0C-w
This is what i use when condis are dominating wvw lel
Dmg is reduced a bit but you still have plenty
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsaVl0Mp7pVOx0J8PNBNhs9kGR8O83yaFA-TF0EABQ8AAYTHwM7P42RAIUlgMpExJlCLpkIgTAAHaCSSZUKq7ohWAJOEAAYCaFVCIFwSKjA-w

Hope you try one of these builds

DoomKnightMax.6592:

I probably will be going for Yski’s build

Good luck!

One thing to keep in mind if you find 4 signets too glassy, is that you are dealing way more damage than you actually need to most of the time. You won’t really lose anything other than my respect style points by trading some of it for defense or utility :P

Need moar updates on your failures and successes

T raw.4658:

Need moar updates on your failures and successes

^This. I still remember my first times trying not to get horribly murdered when using 4 signets, and it wasn’t pretty

Yeah.. signet of malice can be difficult to pull off. Especially 1v1.

Edit: But you guys all could make some D/D videos so I won’t feel that alone with my build anymore. And I love watching them..

The trick is not to 1v1 anything – the moment your victim spots you, run and stab them once they turn away

(I think I broke the edit button – the forums finally decided my random additions that had nothing to do with anything were too off topic and flat out refused to add them. The edit in question involved a rant about not having enough time that had several plot twists in it, a missing right bracket, and the shocking revalation that I probably shouldn’t be posting at 1 am, so all things considered it was probably for the best :P)

yski.7642:

The trick is not to 1v1 anything – the moment your victim spots you, run away and stab them once they turn away

(I think I broke the edit button – the forums finally decided my random additions that had nothing to do with anything were too off topic and flat out refused to add them. They involved a rant about not having time that had several plot twists in it, a missing right bracket, and the shocking revalation that I probably shouldn’t post at 1 am, so all things considered it was probably for the best :P)

Don’t think I didn’t watch your videos :P You did use it in some 1v1 – but it’s impossible to tell whether or not one will be in a 1v1 or 1+xvx anyway.

I hope you’ll find the time to make some new videos one day and also that the aliens won’t kidnap you while you’re at it <— I can be offtopic without edit!

Question is if I can live without edit…

You don’t necessarily need to build glassier to pump more damage.

This is my build, and while I run HiS, the damage is near identical to yski’s in that he ends up missing out on a 10% damage modifier for 200 power. It also brings a lot more durability to the table due to HiS’s cleansing and simply better healing.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMpypNOxzJ8PNxLhs9nTr8btuLCA-TlSBABWq+zDPAgIOEAXt/oUBLlVLqEEFNF4pHYhjEAAnAgAAIA3sNDgzbezbezbeu5Nv5Nv5NLFQEjBA-w

I’ll make sure I try out as many of these builds as possible as soon as I can get my Thief to level 80. Thanks so much!