Hey, guys. I am currently playing as a thief, but I use a D/P Permastealth build. Now, this just won’t do for Dungeons/Fractals, as it’s not ENTIRELY Permastealth anymore. It works against other players, but not so well against some very non-squishy dungeon bosses/mobs. So, I am looking for a build w/ good survivability with the ability to play a support role in the group, while also doing necessary damage to cover my own. Does anyone have any build suggestions they can make to me? Any help is greatly appreciated.
You’re playing the wrong class if you want to really give support. The best you’ll do with that is stealthing groups past unnecessary trash mobs or using Smoke Screen if you end up in a group without enough reflects (i.e. Guardians or Mesmers).
Your biggest asset as a thief in a group is blinds on trash and dps. The blinds you can do with any build by equipping a S/P and keeping a field down with #5, but you attain the latter by using a heavy dps build such as 25/30/0/0/15.
D/D is the weapon set to use on single target fights
Short Bow or S/P is what you want to use on AoE fights
P/P is the weapon set for single target fights when you need to stay ranged.
If you’re new to the class or to the dungeon, then you can always switch things up to get defensive talents like Feline’s Grace.
Another option is a trickery build (0/30/0/0/25 + 15), which will give you a bit of extra utility by granting vigor and stealing boons. If you’re good at maintaining high initiative, the dps isn’t too far off from a 25/30/0/0/15.
Thieves are decent enough offensive support but weak on the defensive support. You can swap the chill venom for smokescreen when needed. You lose about 50% of your damage potential for party healing on hit and 20 second (+60%) might buffs.
In fractals you can use a variety of utilities and weapons in different fights for good advantage. One build will not suit all that variety (unless you go full dps) so there is some choice of build in fractals and those builds will suits some fractals better than others.
Thieves are decent enough offensive support but weak on the defensive support. You can swap the chill venom for smokescreen when needed. You lose about 50% of your damage potential for party healing on hit and 20 second (+60%) might buffs.
Venoms, unfortunately, are terrible support for dungeons.
Poison is rarely in short supply, especially since it comes in a healthy dose from your auto attack. It’s also one of the weakest dps conditions and the heal reduction only works on a handful of enemies.
Chill is really weak in PvE since mobs seldom run around once you’ve engaged them anyways.
Vulnerability can be applies more easily by other classes. An engi alone often gets close to 25 stacks.
Torment is a very weak condition in PvE since, again, mobs rarely run around.
Finally, the heal is weak as well since most of the healing it provides will be wasted on overhealing allies at or near full hp.
Finally, the might that this build provides is very low. Considering all the dps that you sacrifice to go as a venom build, you probably won’t make up for it with might stacking your group. Other classes can stack more might without sacrificing DPS like this build does. They can also apply these benefits at a 600 range as opposed to the 360 range of Venomous Aura.
Venoms, unfortunately, are terrible support for dungeons.
You forgot Basilisk Venom (which goes past Defiant on non-bosses), and Leeching Venoms (which is true damage for everyone, plus healing). And healing, by the way, is useful for ambient Agony damage.
i was actualy gunna run condition damage thief share venom style for pve XD some guy had a genious idea of how to stack 25 torment on a mob using cond thief with scale venom and a lot of summon think the build is 30 0 30 0 10 it use only the scale and the skelk venom leech a lot of life on strike and use ambush, shadowstep and thieve guild as its elite. the guy runs it with dire. Now idk about you but you can use the 2 venom build and replace ambush and shadowstep by anything else you like. ill likely keep shadowstep and replace ambush by shadow refuge XD id definitively run this as a come back to the death blossom specialisation (18k hp not so glassy thief who deals heavy cond damage and heals like hell broke loose o.O?)
as for mob running around well thats totaly relative of how you see it because a LOT of the bosses do run around. As for trash mobs eh you can always bleed em to death spamming DB in a group of stacked mob realy hurt
i dont realy see an issue with venomous aura 360 range because ill proly be constantly in melee range of the boss where btway its very likely warrior guards and prety much all the melee dps also will be (wich is to say most of the team)
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
Venoms, unfortunately, are terrible support for dungeons.
If you look at venoms solely for the debuffs they cause, you are missing the point entirely.
This venomancer build offers 32 seconds of might, meaning it only has a downtime of 4 seconds. Should you wish you can event tweak the spec to make it 100% uptime of 10 stacks of might.
Every venom stack augments that persons next strike with 386 bonus true damage and heal for 506. (+904)
Assuming everyone gets venom;
(17×386)x5 is 32810 damage every 36 seconds
You can also choose to trait +1 venomstrikes; (22×386)x5 which is 42460 every 36 seconds
This doesn’t include might bonuses of course.
You also have the option at any time to roll out slowed pulse for reduced deception cooldown time and swap out a venom for smoke screen for projectile denial and ranged blind.
Here’s the problem: You have a 360 range for that might, meaning that you either need a full melee stacked group or you need to make sure that everyone in the group stays very close (Staff eles, Grenade engis, etc.) even though they can hit from farther away.
If you have a group this organized, then they’re probably better off with a more min/maxed class that brings this kind of support without sacrificing so much personal damage. If you’re in a pug, then what sounds good in theory will easily go to waste when you have longbow rangers sitting miles away from you. =P
At this point you dont care about it just run it because ill point that out but people dont give a heck about who plays what in a pug. If a guy dont get your venom share then so what long as multiple people gets it
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
Here’s the problem: You have a 360 range for that might, meaning that you either need a full melee stacked group or you need to make sure that everyone in the group stays very close (Staff eles, Grenade engis, etc.) even though they can hit from farther away.
Once again you are focusing on one singular element of venomancy, rather than the whole.
Personally I cannot say I ever have such range issues except on fights like Lupicus, granted it takes more skill to use venomancer than other fire and forget support classes but the range isn’t an issue if you have spatial awareness.
Even when range is an issue, venomancy remains valuable to those you can hit with it. 10 might for 32 seconds, 6562 true damage and 12218 healing plus additional benefits per person you buff is excellent support.
Here’s the problem: You have a 360 range for that might, meaning that you either need a full melee stacked group or you need to make sure that everyone in the group stays very close (Staff eles, Grenade engis, etc.) even though they can hit from farther away.
You have very strong opinions about it, but at the same time it doesn’t seem like you’ve actually done this before. A radius of 360 is fairly large; as big as a Time Warp centered on you. With instant cast venoms, everything other than Basilisk is pretty straightforward to land on people if you have some modicum of positioning awareness. The might is easy to keep going, and Leeching Venoms are quite good.
Granted there are some fights where this is difficult/impossible due to spacing needs, but that’s true of Every Spec Ever™, so it’s not a particularly insightful point.
Here’s the problem: You have a 360 range for that might, meaning that you either need a full melee stacked group or you need to make sure that everyone in the group stays very close (Staff eles, Grenade engis, etc.) even though they can hit from farther away.
Once again you are focusing on one singular element of venomancy, rather than the whole.
Personally I cannot say I ever have such range issues except on fights like Lupicus, granted it takes more skill to use venomancer than other fire and forget support classes but the range isn’t an issue if you have spatial awareness.
Even when range is an issue, venomancy remains valuable to those you can hit with it. 10 might for 32 seconds, 6562 true damage and 12218 healing plus additional benefits per person you buff is excellent support.
I don’t think you understand how bad that is. For instance, my casual runs have a 100% uptime on 25 stacks of might. Healing has absolutely no benefit when you can permablind all trash and evade boss attacks. And most importantly: 6562 “true” damage (lolwut is true damage anyway) I hit higher than this per second with absolutely no buffs and easily double it with max buffs.
edit: OP you’d be much better (by much i mean over 9000%) going with a full physical damage build and for any decent party you’ll be kicked for running anything other than full berserkers with a damage build
I don’t think you understand how bad that is. For instance, my casual runs have a 100% uptime on 25 stacks of might.
I am not sure that you have a realistic idea of what a “casual” run is.
lolwut is true damage anyway
Damage not mitigated by Armor.
Its casual because we take whatever classes we want and aren’t aiming for speed, not might stacking falls under the category of inexperienced, uncaring, or not valuing one’s time, and ty for the explanation although im still not sure why anyone would calculate damage without adding armor to the equation
i’ve been kicked many times for being a thief (you know because you never get accepted into the team in the first place), but never for not using full zerk.
Its casual because we take whatever classes we want and aren’t aiming for speed, not might stacking falls under the category of inexperienced, uncaring, or not valuing one’s time
I am now 100% positive that your definition of “casual” is outside the mainstream.
and ty for the explanation although im still not sure why anyone would calculate damage without adding armor to the equation
Because life siphons will ignore Armor, that’s why. It doesn’t matter how much Armor the target has. I’m not sure how much more clear this point can be.
Its casual because we take whatever classes we want and aren’t aiming for speed, not might stacking falls under the category of inexperienced, uncaring, or not valuing one’s time
I am now 100% positive that your definition of “casual” is outside the mainstream.
and ty for the explanation although im still not sure why anyone would calculate damage without adding armor to the equation
Because life siphons will ignore Armor, that’s why. It doesn’t matter how much Armor the target has. I’m not sure how much more clear this point can be.
My definition of casual is equal to the whole of GW1’s population’s definition of casual. And I realize that life siphons ignore armor but why was it necessary to state it as “true damage” when it was a life siphon?
i’ve been kicked many times for being a thief (you know because you never get accepted into the team in the first place), but never for not using full zerk.
I’ve never been kicked for being a thief but I rarely, if ever, join a pug. On the other hand, when I run a dungeon tour with guildies/friends and we can’t find a 5th, we typically kick between 20-30 people due to a blatant lack of brains and reading ability.
My definition of casual is equal to the whole of GW1’s population’s definition of casual.
Citation needed. This is GW2, and I’ve never met a casual player who would agree with your definition of “casual”. You might as well call it “kittens” for all the relationship that it has to a generally understood meaning. Call it what it is, instead of implying that your style is mainstream (which it is not).
And I realize that life siphons ignore armor but why was it necessary to state it as “true damage” when it was a life siphon?
Six of one, half dozen of the other. You ought to have been able to figure it out from context, since you “realize that life siphons ignore armor”, and we were talking about life siphon sharing.
I’ve never been kicked for being a thief but I rarely, if ever, join a pug.
I’ve never crashed a plane before, but I rarely, if ever, fly one.
On the other hand, when I run a dungeon tour with guildies/friends and we can’t find a 5th, we typically kick between 20-30 people due to a blatant lack of brains and reading ability
If only 1 player in 25 is good enough to fill out your groups, it’s likely you set the bar a bit higher than most. I wouldn’t be confidant your definition of something like ‘casual’ is all that widespread.
Snit Dirtnap (Thief)
Ratbag Dogsticker (Guardian)
…Yak’s Bend
My “standards” are and were the basic standards of GW1 which unfortunately isn’t the same in GW2. Ahhh for the days of not only being kicked from a party, but being kicked from a guild for not running the meta build. Stuff went so much smoother and was much more fun back then.
LOL i ran duncan the black in slaver exile as a full beast mastery ranger dude my pet was taking him on 1 on 1 and tanking him i made a lot of voltaic spear from this (NEVER never have i ever ran a single ’’meta’’ build save for COF solo monk running and i kind of did every single instance in the game). You foolish elitist are so full of yourself that you think running meta is all that there is to the game. Well ill tell you something, just because one runs meta doesnt mean that he can play it.
The same way just because someone run something else then meta doesnt mean he cant pull his share. I run 100% of my fractals party as pugs and i can tell i likely get more run done then you because it doesnt take me 1 hour recruiting my party out of people i dont know. If the guy is messing around (like agroing everything for fun) dont care at all for the team or just is plenty a jerk we kick it out (sometime guys like you who runs meta build get the kick button out because they are to careless or just plenty love flaming at everyone for what they run, we dont have time to waste on angry players who just keep raging mid run because they wanna get things done faster) and replace him mid run no harms done, better yet sometime they leave on their own and we get a replacement who does the job twice as better, players are expendable ressource wich can easily be replaced by the lfg system this isnt your wow healer or tank role here wich has a rarety of 80%. You guys needs to learn the definition of the word fun.
Note: I dont join parties… i make my owns from scratch with the lfg system lot of the time with friends :/ if a guy is to much of a jerk i always have that double kick ready and if one of us get kicked he gets invited back at the same speed, You want effectiveness and a failproof team then maybe you ought to stay in your guild this is the pug jungle here and there will always be a place for a thief or a ranger who can do his job (in any way he can) in my party.
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
My “standards” are and were the basic standards of GW1 which unfortunately isn’t the same in GW2. Ahhh for the days of not only being kicked from a party, but being kicked from a guild for not running the meta build. Stuff went so much smoother and was much more fun back then.
Yea…there were a lot of gimmick meta builds back in the day (looking at you Barrage/Pet SF runs). However, there doesn’t seem to be as much need to bring a specific build as there used to be. Maybe that will change if we get some more challenging content with unique mechanics…
You’re playing the wrong class if you want to really give support. The best you’ll do with that is stealthing groups past unnecessary trash mobs or using Smoke Screen if you end up in a group without enough reflects (i.e. Guardians or Mesmers).
Your biggest asset as a thief in a group is blinds on trash and dps. The blinds you can do with any build by equipping a S/P and keeping a field down with #5, but you attain the latter by using a heavy dps build such as 25/30/0/0/15.
D/D is the weapon set to use on single target fights
Short Bow or S/P is what you want to use on AoE fights
P/P is the weapon set for single target fights when you need to stay ranged.
If you’re new to the class or to the dungeon, then you can always switch things up to get defensive talents like Feline’s Grace.
Another option is a trickery build (0/30/0/0/25 + 15), which will give you a bit of extra utility by granting vigor and stealing boons. If you’re good at maintaining high initiative, the dps isn’t too far off from a 25/30/0/0/15.
I have to admit some of the dungeons in GW1 were hard, but I did mostly alliance battles which were a ton of fun. I played an SF elementalist. For me, they ruined elementalist when they turned it into its current abomination…
The level of difficulty of GW1 won’t fly in GW2 simply because they want basically everyone and their mom to be able to finish it since there aren’t any roles and you can’t change builds like in GW1. If you’re looking for a “hardcore” MMO experience you’re literally getting the opposite since this is the most casual MMO I know of/have played.
Queen’s gauntlet is probably gonna be the hardest content we’ll ever get.
My definition of Fun is not hard content its actualy to look nice and hard content or not is of little importance long as i do. Fractals arent that hard yet that people actualy need to run a 5 perma shadowform A/E with pain inverter and other skill yet just to make it trought. And even then this game doesnt have the GW 1 Issue of behing forced to constantly block or evade hits with invulnerability not to die.
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
My definition of Fun is not hard content its actualy to look nice and hard content or not is of little importance long as i do. Fractals arent that hard yet that people actualy need to run a 5 perma shadowform A/E with pain inverter and other skill yet just to make it trought. And even then this game doesnt have the GW 1 Issue of behing forced to constantly block or evade hits with invulnerability not to die.
The content that people used multiple a/e SF tanks was very much doable without them. The reason they were used was to save time. The difference was a several hour long UW run versus an 8 minute long UW run.
My definition of Fun is not hard content its actualy to look nice and hard content or not is of little importance long as i do. Fractals arent that hard yet that people actualy need to run a 5 perma shadowform A/E with pain inverter and other skill yet just to make it trought. And even then this game doesnt have the GW 1 Issue of behing forced to constantly block or evade hits with invulnerability not to die.
The content that people used multiple a/e SF tanks was very much doable without them. The reason they were used was to save time. The difference was a several hour long UW run versus an 8 minute long UW run.
this is also why Anet Hit the perma shadowform build so hard with the nerf bat that it could hardly be used anymore without a huge time loss as well as a crippling waste of money for buff, Perma spell breaker also was hit that way and i had to carry 2 hero just to buff me with enought damage to kill the mobs around me. They DONT want people to screw up the game with meta build to begin with they want them to inovate. Lesson is create as many meta running build as you want Anet will always be waiting for you at the corner with the nerf bat ready just for it. Long as the build is decent enought to be used but not strong enought to be overused Anet wont nerf it but give it so much as to make it a necesity to dungeon running or pvp and theil ’’fix’’ it without a moment tought.
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
My definition of Fun is not hard content its actualy to look nice and hard content or not is of little importance long as i do. Fractals arent that hard yet that people actualy need to run a 5 perma shadowform A/E with pain inverter and other skill yet just to make it trought. And even then this game doesnt have the GW 1 Issue of behing forced to constantly block or evade hits with invulnerability not to die.
The content that people used multiple a/e SF tanks was very much doable without them. The reason they were used was to save time. The difference was a several hour long UW run versus an 8 minute long UW run.
this is also why Anet Hit the perma shadowform build so hard with the nerf bat that it could hardly be used anymore without a huge time loss as well as a crippling waste of money for buff, Perma spell breaker also was hit that way and i had to carry 2 hero just to buff me with enought damage to kill the mobs around me. They DONT want people to screw up the game with meta build to begin with they want them to inovate. Lesson is create as many meta running build as you want Anet will always be waiting for you at the corner with the nerf bat ready just for it. Long as the build is decent enought to be used but not strong enought to be overused Anet wont nerf it but give it so much as to make it a necesity to dungeon running or pvp and theil ’’fix’’ it without a moment tought.
That “nerf” could hardly count as a nerf. It forced people to spend about 5% of what they were making every run. If anything it sped them up due to speed boosts. You could say anet buffed SF in an unintended way.
My definition of Fun is not hard content its actualy to look nice and hard content or not is of little importance long as i do. Fractals arent that hard yet that people actualy need to run a 5 perma shadowform A/E with pain inverter and other skill yet just to make it trought. And even then this game doesnt have the GW 1 Issue of behing forced to constantly block or evade hits with invulnerability not to die.
The content that people used multiple a/e SF tanks was very much doable without them. The reason they were used was to save time. The difference was a several hour long UW run versus an 8 minute long UW run.
this is also why Anet Hit the perma shadowform build so hard with the nerf bat that it could hardly be used anymore without a huge time loss as well as a crippling waste of money for buff, Perma spell breaker also was hit that way and i had to carry 2 hero just to buff me with enought damage to kill the mobs around me. They DONT want people to screw up the game with meta build to begin with they want them to inovate. Lesson is create as many meta running build as you want Anet will always be waiting for you at the corner with the nerf bat ready just for it. Long as the build is decent enought to be used but not strong enought to be overused Anet wont nerf it but give it so much as to make it a necesity to dungeon running or pvp and theil ’’fix’’ it without a moment tought.
That “nerf” could hardly count as a nerf. It forced people to spend about 5% of what they were making every run. If anything it sped them up due to speed boosts. You could say anet buffed SF in an unintended way.
depends on what run you talking about lots of place had theyr cost litteraly double just to compensate for it (aka raven) but hey i guess thats how business works.
Crystal Desert, The Darknest Community P.E.T.A.
BM: I want to present you my lovely jingle bear mia
If pet had voices: Mommy, I did it! :3
You’re playing the wrong class if you want to really give support. The best you’ll do with that is stealthing groups past unnecessary trash mobs or using Smoke Screen if you end up in a group without enough reflects (i.e. Guardians or Mesmers).
Your biggest asset as a thief in a group is blinds on trash and dps. The blinds you can do with any build by equipping a S/P and keeping a field down with #5, but you attain the latter by using a heavy dps build such as 25/30/0/0/15.
D/D is the weapon set to use on single target fights
Short Bow or S/P is what you want to use on AoE fights
P/P is the weapon set for single target fights when you need to stay ranged.
If you’re new to the class or to the dungeon, then you can always switch things up to get defensive talents like Feline’s Grace.
Another option is a trickery build (0/30/0/0/25 + 15), which will give you a bit of extra utility by granting vigor and stealing boons. If you’re good at maintaining high initiative, the dps isn’t too far off from a 25/30/0/0/15.
sundering strikes vuln stacking isn’t support?
Technically, it is, but pragmatically, it’s a weaker version of what other classes do better whith less of a loss to personal DPS.
This sounds effective but also sounds pretty boring lol.
Alice, running all those Cleric’s doesn’t get you into trouble? You have a ton of heal power and enough toughness, but you have 11k hp? I can’t imagine this. Unless you were planning on full support?
This sounds effective but also sounds pretty boring lol.
Alice, running all those Cleric’s doesn’t get you into trouble? You have a ton of heal power and enough toughness, but you have 11k hp? I can’t imagine this. Unless you were planning on full support?
Yeah, unfortunately. I used to run P/P and all I did was 3333333333 lol. Sorry. But it is a good build.
yeah thats true. try utilize body shot more. cliffside boss it helps. helps on dredge boss. helps on all bosses really. saves your allies alot. when your team stacks. use skill 5 (black powder shot) x2 or 3-4x like me. then even if you have 20 enemies none of them are doing dmg for 8 seconds or so. BPS wait 1.5 s then BPS wait 1.5s then BPS or BPS BPS wait 2 sec BPS BPS. it allows your team to run a lil more dmg and go thru lvls SO FAST. the only skill i dont use much is head shot. . . in gw2 daze in pve isnt useful. so you are relaly utilizing 4/5 skills pretty hard. plus short bow poison/cluster and using disability for defence and slowing down dredge lvl boss…..
p/p SB is prolly the most usefull 2 sets for fractals. especialy at high lvls in my opinion my dream team:
1 thief with the build i posted
1 Mesmer
2 guardians dmg/defense
1 warrior
1 Engineer or necro
. then even if you have 20 enemies none of them are doing dmg for 8 seconds or so. BPS wait 1.5 s then BPS wait 1.5s then BPS or BPS BPS wait 2 sec BPS BPS. it allows your team to run a lil more dmg and go thru lvls SO FAST. the only skill i dont use much is head shot. . . in gw2 daze in pve isnt useful. so you are relaly utilizing 4/5 skills pretty hard. plus short bow poison/cluster and using disability for defence and slowing down dredge lvl boss…..