Guild Wars 2

I really enjoy my thief and am almost done with my legendary short bow. Most of the dungeons I do have been on my guardian though. What does a Thief offer to the table that my guardian or Warrior doesn’t when it comes to dungeons?

I would assume higher DPS plus group stealth.

How much more damage should I be looking to do? Are their any builds that are specificly great in dungeons? Are their any builds that are good for Dungeons AND wvw?

Thoughts?

Grazingcattle.1627:

I really enjoy my thief and am almost done with my legendary short bow. Most of the dungeons I do have been on my guardian though. What does a Thief offer to the table that my guardian or Warrior doesn’t when it comes to dungeons?

I would assume higher DPS plus group stealth.

How much more damage should I be looking to do? Are their any builds that are specificly great in dungeons? Are their any builds that are good for Dungeons AND wvw?

Thoughts?

Guardians have higher sustained DPS but poorer burst, and Warriors have higher sustained dps and burst.

They both have higher survivability then thief, and also both bring more to the table.

However, the thief can run away from the group faster if kittenf.

Should I wait and put the dreamer on my non existent Ranger then?

Grazingcattle.1627:

Should I wait and put the dreamer on my non existent Ranger then?

Rangers are excellent in dungeons.

Healing Spring Alone can bring the entire group 30-40 seconds of regeneration.

Group stealth as in Shadow Refuge on a down teammember, yes, if they know you’re about to cast it and stop attacking. Otherwise people just tend to not notice the stealth, or not timely and waste it.

Smokescreen and shadow refugee are nice in dungeons.
Granted I’ve only ran dungeons on my mesmer, and not many of them. Blocking projectiles and blinding enemies is always nice.
Shadow refugee has been explained enough I guess.

Besides those two Shadow Step is nice to de-activate traps in AC. And it’s also nice to get past traps of course.
Needle trap for a bit of CC, along with devourer venom.
Thrill of the Crime – Trickery V – Fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds for all allies when you steal
Bountiful theft – Trickery VII – 15 seconds of vigor for nearby allies on steal + 2 boons are ripped from the target and given to allies )image that on the jellyfish boss in fractals who gains like 20 stacks of might )

Just my 2cts

Glass cannon thieves are weak in dungeons. They have high burst, but sustained DPS is horrid, especially when you have 11K HP. A carrion condition thief is great, but they don’t offer anything in terms of support. The only real support is venom share, but honestly, I would rather have a guardian/ele support.

Shadow refuge is pretty much the only thing a thief can bring that no one else can. It doesn’t mean thieves are useless, they just don’t have anything else unique and useful. Smoke fields are great for non boss mobs (they help with bosses as well but defience means blind isn’t as useful) and only thieves and engineers can apply them (IIRC).

A condition thief has some of the best bleed stacking so if there are no other condition builds in th group then it works wonder. I would recommend not going as a BS build though, it’s a build that relies on high bursts and then downtime so it’s not generally much use in dungeons since most enemies (that count) have so much health. Short bows are nice for blast finishers and poison fields.

My major concern is Fractals. I really enjoy fractals but i don’t want to be useless in higher level fractals. Any high level fractal thieves have advice I am all ears

Curae.1837:

Smokescreen and shadow refugee are nice in dungeons.
Granted I’ve only ran dungeons on my mesmer, and not many of them. Blocking projectiles and blinding enemies is always nice.
Shadow refugee has been explained enough I guess.

Besides those two Shadow Step is nice to de-activate traps in AC. And it’s also nice to get past traps of course.
Needle trap for a bit of CC, along with devourer venom.
Thrill of the Crime – Trickery V – Fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds for all allies when you steal
Bountiful theft – Trickery VII – 15 seconds of vigor for nearby allies on steal + 2 boons are ripped from the target and given to allies )image that on the jellyfish boss in fractals who gains like 20 stacks of might )

Just my 2cts

If the enemy has 20 stacks, you only steal 1 stack, so its pointless to steal might.

Stealth is ignored by most NPCs, if you stealth they will just go right where you are stealthed and stare at you till it goes away.

Shadow Refuge is ok, but 1000 healing is worthless in dungeons, thats basicly one shout heal from a warrior and thats 1/10th of what one healing banner could do, and Rangers and most classes can give everyone regeneration, and protection.

Thief is horrible in dungeons compared to other classes, even rangers.

Daecollo.9578:

Curae.1837:

Smokescreen and shadow refugee are nice in dungeons.
Granted I’ve only ran dungeons on my mesmer, and not many of them. Blocking projectiles and blinding enemies is always nice.
Shadow refugee has been explained enough I guess.

Besides those two Shadow Step is nice to de-activate traps in AC. And it’s also nice to get past traps of course.
Needle trap for a bit of CC, along with devourer venom.
Thrill of the Crime – Trickery V – Fury, might and swiftness for 10 seconds for all allies when you steal
Bountiful theft – Trickery VII – 15 seconds of vigor for nearby allies on steal + 2 boons are ripped from the target and given to allies )image that on the jellyfish boss in fractals who gains like 20 stacks of might )

Just my 2cts

If the enemy has 20 stacks, you only steal 1 stack, so its pointless to steal might.

Stealth is ignored by most NPCs, if you stealth they will just go right where you are stealthed and stare at you till it goes away.

Shadow Refuge is ok, but 1000 healing is worthless in dungeons, thats basicly one shout heal from a warrior and thats 1/10th of what one healing banner could do, and Rangers and most classes can give everyone regeneration, and protection.

Thief is horrible in dungeons compared to other classes, even rangers.

Ah, my bad. I personally don’t have the trait but figured it would work like the mesmer skill arcane thievery which steals all stacks

It does remove the 25 stacks of might, but you and your party around only gets 1 stack from that. It honestly looks like a bug I’d say.

stof.9341:

It does remove the 25 stacks of might, but you and your party around only gets 1 stack from that. It honestly looks like a bug I’d say.

I don’t think it’s a bug since if it gave the full stack then it would be very OP for a trait.

Doesn’t Arcane Thievery steal all 25 stacks of might at once? Why would this trait work in such a weird way?

I have found that condition damage is the best way to deal out total damage against silvers, golds, and champions. Even 2 thieves will be hard pressed to stack 25 bleeds on a mob consistently.

A good group can skip most, if not all of the trash content in a dungeon through proper group stealthing. I wish I didn’t have to explain this to every non guild group i get into.

stof.9341:

Doesn’t Arcane Thievery steal all 25 stacks of might at once? Why would this trait work in such a weird way?

It’s the difference of using up two utility skills for it or taking a 20pt trait that boosts an already very powerful skill/mechanic. The mechanic itself isn’t OP but only needing a single 20pt trait and not giving up any skills would be it. Bountiful theft is still a very good trait to have just for the boon removal since it can make e.g. higher level fractals way easier.

Rainu.6871:

It’s the difference of using up two utility skills for it or taking a 20pt trait that boosts an already very powerful skill/mechanic. The mechanic itself isn’t OP but only needing a single 20pt trait and not giving up any skills would be it. Bountiful theft is still a very good trait to have just for the boon removal since it can make e.g. higher level fractals way easier.

But arcane Thievery steals 3 boons and removes 3 conditions at once while this one only removes 2 boons. And the signet that copies the boons to friends copy everything at once, including all the other boons you might be using currently.

If you want boon removal, use S/D before you consider this trait I’d say.

Also, the point remains that giving 1 stack of might to allies is useless. In a sense, you are punished when the trait choses might instead of another useful boon to copy.

Daecollo.9578:

If the enemy has 20 stacks, you only steal 1 stack, so its pointless to steal might.

Except for the part where the target doesn’t have 20 stacks of might any more. Or the part where you also stole another boon. Or the part where you did it for basically free while using a steal you were going to use anyway.

Daecollo.9578:

Stealth is ignored by most NPCs, if you stealth they will just go right where you are stealthed and stare at you till it goes away.

Patently untrue. .5 seconds after stealth, every mob everywhere instantly retargets something else, or if there are no targets avaliable instantly leashes or stands still. The only time where a mob even pretends to know where you are after stealth is if you have mistakenly stealthed during an attack windup, in which case the mab will complete the windup and hit with the attack if you’re still in range before forgetting all about you.

Daecollo.9578:

Shadow Refuge is ok, but 1000 healing is worthless in dungeons, thats basicly one shout heal from a warrior and thats 1/10th of what one healing banner could do, and Rangers and most classes can give everyone regeneration, and protection.

Except that shadow refuge also grants reliable and long duration stealth, instantly, to anyone in trouble. SR alone can rez a downed player, even if that player is AFK and the party is in the middle of a fight. SR with groups is the only reliable way to mid-fight rez a dead player, as it stealths as many people as enter it. Drop it and add three rezzers while the fourth guy kites to prevent HP resets…. and that dead guy is up in seconds.

Also, SR is a darkness field, a field type only otherwise avaliable to necros. Dark fields combo in to life steals. Combine that steal with the field’s innate heal, and the stealth… and you just completely fixed any bad aggro while providing healing to the people that need to keep it.

Of course, like any combo fields, its only as good as your group is smart.

Daecollo.9578:

Thief is horrible in dungeons compared to other classes, even rangers.

*Better sustained AoE cripple than any class in the game
*Better sustained AoE blind than any class in the game
*Is only class than can safely rez anyone at any time
*Can tank infinite numbers of trash, due to tanking becoming more effective with more mobs.
*Can burn defiant on bosses like hot butter.
*Spammable blast finisher

The list goes on. I’m sorry you had the misfortune of partying with lolbackstab thieves attempting to PvE. Certain builds, on every class, simply don’t work right in the harder PvE bits of the game.

PopeUrban.2578:

Daecollo.9578:

If the enemy has 20 stacks, you only steal 1 stack, so its pointless to steal might.

Except for the part where the target doesn’t have 20 stacks of might any more. Or the part where you did it for basically free while using a steal you were going to use anyway.

Daecollo.9578:

Stealth is ignored by most NPCs, if you stealth they will just go right where you are stealthed and stare at you till it goes away.

Patently untrue. .5 seconds after stealth, every mob everywhere instantly retargets something else, or if there are no targets avaliable instantly leashes or stands still. The only time where a mob even pretends to know where you are after stealth is if you have mistakenly stealthed during an attack windup, in which case the mab will complete the windup and hit with the attack if you’re still in range before forgetting all about you.

Daecollo.9578:

Shadow Refuge is ok, but 1000 healing is worthless in dungeons, thats basicly one shout heal from a warrior and thats 1/10th of what one healing banner could do, and Rangers and most classes can give everyone regeneration, and protection.

Except that shadow refuge also grants reliable and long duration stealth, instantly, to anyone in trouble. SR alone can rez a downed player, even if that player is AFK and the party is in the middle of a fight. SR with groups is the only reliable way to mid-fight rez a dead player, as it stealths as many people as enter it. Drop it and add three rezzers while the fourth guy kites to prevent HP resets…. and that dead guy is up in seconds.

Also, SR is a darkness field, a field type only otherwise avaliable to necros. Dark fields combo in to life steals. Combine that steal with the field’s innate heal, and the stealth… and you just completely fixed any bad aggro while providing healing to the people that need to keep it.

Of course, like any combo fields, its only as good as your group is smart.

Daecollo.9578:

Thief is horrible in dungeons compared to other classes, even rangers.

*Better sustained AoE cripple than any class in the game
*Better sustained AoE blind than any class in the game
*Is only class than can safely rez anyone at any time
*Can tank infinite numbers of trash, due to tanking becoming more effective with more mobs.
*Can burn defiant on bosses like hot butter.
*Spammable blast finisher

The list goes on. I’m sorry you had the misfortune of partying with lolbackstab thieves attempting to PvE. Certain builds, on every class, simply don’t work right in the harder PvE bits of the game.

Blind matters? – Most bosses ignore it.

Try Meleeing a Fractal Boss for that awesome cripple.

Safely rez anyone at anytime? Hardly, I’d bring a ranger for that, Search And Rescue.
Tank Infinite Numbers of Trash, maybe, depends on the trash, but nobody cares about trash mobs, only bosses.

Warriors also have a spammable blast finisher, why do you need two of them? Dungeons usually have about 2-3 warriors already.

Daecollo.9578:

PopeUrban.2578:

Daecollo.9578:

If the enemy has 20 stacks, you only steal 1 stack, so its pointless to steal might.

Except for the part where the target doesn’t have 20 stacks of might any more. Or the part where you did it for basically free while using a steal you were going to use anyway.

Daecollo.9578:

Stealth is ignored by most NPCs, if you stealth they will just go right where you are stealthed and stare at you till it goes away.

Patently untrue. .5 seconds after stealth, every mob everywhere instantly retargets something else, or if there are no targets avaliable instantly leashes or stands still. The only time where a mob even pretends to know where you are after stealth is if you have mistakenly stealthed during an attack windup, in which case the mab will complete the windup and hit with the attack if you’re still in range before forgetting all about you.

Daecollo.9578:

Shadow Refuge is ok, but 1000 healing is worthless in dungeons, thats basicly one shout heal from a warrior and thats 1/10th of what one healing banner could do, and Rangers and most classes can give everyone regeneration, and protection.

Except that shadow refuge also grants reliable and long duration stealth, instantly, to anyone in trouble. SR alone can rez a downed player, even if that player is AFK and the party is in the middle of a fight. SR with groups is the only reliable way to mid-fight rez a dead player, as it stealths as many people as enter it. Drop it and add three rezzers while the fourth guy kites to prevent HP resets…. and that dead guy is up in seconds.

Also, SR is a darkness field, a field type only otherwise avaliable to necros. Dark fields combo in to life steals. Combine that steal with the field’s innate heal, and the stealth… and you just completely fixed any bad aggro while providing healing to the people that need to keep it.

Of course, like any combo fields, its only as good as your group is smart.

Daecollo.9578:

Thief is horrible in dungeons compared to other classes, even rangers.

*Better sustained AoE cripple than any class in the game
*Better sustained AoE blind than any class in the game
*Is only class than can safely rez anyone at any time
*Can tank infinite numbers of trash, due to tanking becoming more effective with more mobs.
*Can burn defiant on bosses like hot butter.
*Spammable blast finisher

The list goes on. I’m sorry you had the misfortune of partying with lolbackstab thieves attempting to PvE. Certain builds, on every class, simply don’t work right in the harder PvE bits of the game.

Blind matters? – Most bosses ignore it.

Try Meleeing a Fractal Boss for that awesome cripple.

Safely rez anyone at anytime? Hardly, I’d bring a ranger for that, Search And Rescue.
Tank Infinite Numbers of Trash, maybe, depends on the trash, but nobody cares about trash mobs, only bosses.

Warriors also have a spammable blast finisher, why do you need two of them? Dungeons usually have about 2-3 warriors already.

Since when did bosses ignore blind? They whiff 10% of attacks while blinded. 10% miss chance is useless…. unless you can ensure they’re always blind, and do it passively as part of your DPS chain.

Since when did I need to melee to cripple? Dancing dagger is ranged. Daggerstorm is ranged. Caltrops is a persistant AoE.

Search and rescue does not prevent the target from taking additional damage from mobs, does not prevent the pet from taking damage from mobs, and generally turns the downed player in to an AoE magnet, resulting in a dead player and pet. Also, it has zero other uses, and has a longer recharge than SR.

Is there some amalgamation of traits that allows a warrior to blast finisher on autoattacks I don’t know about? Once every ten seconds is not spammable. It’s not even enough to do two field effects on most combo fields. Compare that with standing inside a field and rapid firing (but not exploding) one cluster arrow per second. In effect, that’s blast finishing at autoattack rate 6-8 times before you’re out of initiative, depending on build, and then once every three seconds afterward if you just scrape the bottom of your pool as it recharges.

Thieves offer:

-condition damage
-burst damage
-large amounts of easy to apply AoE cripple
-AoE blinds
-evasion tanking
-Shadow Refuge: one of the safest ways to rally an ally in the game
-a spammable blast finisher while wielding a Short Bow
-Haste Rallying
-etc

Vecuu.2018:

Thieves offer:

-condition damage – Limited, Very easilly capped.
-burst damage – Limited, Unlike Warriors.
-large amounts of easy to apply AoE cripple – Melee, Vulnerable.
-AoE blinds – Ignored by AOEs in dungeons, Ignored by AOE Melee Attacks, Ignored by Scripted AOE attacks.
-evasion tanking – Limited.
-Shadow Refuge: one of the safest ways to rally an ally in the game – Ignored by AOEs in dungeons, Ignored by AOE Melee Attacks, Ignored by Scripted AOE Attacks.
-a spammable blast finisher while wielding a Short Bow – Amazing.
-Haste Rallying – What? This seems stupid to me.
-etc

Rainu.6871:

It’s the difference of using up two utility skills for it or taking a 20pt trait that boosts an already very powerful skill/mechanic.

Only 20 trait points? That ‘powerful’ mechanic requires investing 30-60 trait points to become ‘powerful’.

frans.8092:

Rainu.6871:

It’s the difference of using up two utility skills for it or taking a 20pt trait that boosts an already very powerful skill/mechanic.

Only 20 trait points? That ‘powerful’ mechanic requires investing 30-60 trait points to become ‘powerful’.

Only 20 points to get the boon steal&share. Steal is quite good on it’s own and with 10 points into Deadly Arts you get mug to turn it into a good damage dealer as well. Most of the rest of the traits that make it good are in the same tree as Bountiful theft, you will get Kleptomanic for the initiative restoration for free when going to 20pts and Thrill of the crime for fury, might and swiftness at 10pts.

clusterbomb+combo field=Great support

to bad nobody knows this :p

I disagree with people saying BS builds are bad in PvE. It’s what you make of it and I’d honestly say that thieves have just as good (if not better) sustained DPS as guardians and absolutely dominating them when it comes to burst. The only difference is that a guardian can take a hit with more ease and that you actually need to watch out for even regular melee strikes as a thief.

The main issue is ranged, imo. Shortbow is good and all if you go condition damage, but pistols are the go to for straight out damage and they’re sort of “meh”. Good for ripping off stacks of defiant however, or supporting your team in melee with the black powder – less good at keeping you interested when you’re forced to be ranged DPS, however. :P