Guild Wars 2

Like Everyone else was saying, they nerf acrobatics to give it back for our elite spec, that is super lazy, I was just starting to warm up to the idea of staff, becuase i had been wanting rifle or torch for so long, Thieves are supposed to be stealthy and hardhitting, but running around twirling a staff with little steath skills does not work, and it isnt a diffrent playstyle its just like Team Rifle Anticipated, another pointless melee weapon, thats isnt even good!!!!, I am so very dissapointed, and it goes to show how little they care about thief, whoever thinks this Elite is even a little, Hopefully they introduce the next elite specs soon, becuase ‘Daredevil’ makes me want to cry.

You can surely see it that way but you can also see it as “Elite Acrobatics Specialization”.

Then can the next elite spec be Rifle with an “Elite Shadow Arts Specialization” since almost everyone is onboard with enabling anet’s tactic of nerfing and selling back to us what was nerfed?

It’s almost as if Elite specialisations are capable of enhancing existing aspects of the profession, like every single other one that was announced.

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if Elite specialisations are capable of enhancing existing aspects of the profession, like every single other one that was announced.

yeah too bad they had to actually destroy meta build just to they can sell spec…. lol

it is like: hey let me break your leg so i can sell you wheelchair super duper diamond pro 7000

yolo swaggins.2570:

Then can the next elite spec be Rifle with an “Elite Shadow Arts Specialization” since almost everyone is onboard with enabling anet’s tactic of nerfing and selling back to us what was nerfed?

I wouldn’t call it “enabling” per se rather it’s just an admission of defeat against people who can’t be reason with. Just like living with a bipolar person, you’re not really enabling the behavior, you’re just accepting the situation and learning to live with it.

ArenaNet is like a decapolar person, we’re being pulled and pushed in 10 different directions.

Its almost like it was already announced…

Is this community really that jaded? Anet wouldn’t be reading the forums and listening to us now if it weren’t for the drastic measures taken almost 2 years ago. So they can be reasoned with, it just isn’t easy to do.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Is this community really that jaded? Anet wouldn’t be reading the forums and listening to us now if it weren’t for the drastic measures taken almost 2 years ago. So they can be reasoned with, it just isn’t easy to do.

I still have my doubts and of course I’m only speaking for myself.

As far as I can tell, these changes have been decided way before it is announced, thus no matter how much we try to reason with them, these changes are set in stone.

I suppose you “can” reason with them, but there’s no acknowledgement that they are even listening to reason.

They remind me of Mordin Solus from Mass Effect; “Objection noted, now do what I say”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I still have my doubts and of course I’m only speaking for myself.

As far as I can tell, these changes have been decided way before it is announced, thus no matter how much we try to reason with them, these changes are set in stone.

I suppose you “can” reason with them, but there’s no acknowledgement that they are even listening to reason.

They remind me of Mordin Solus from Mass Effect; “Objection noted, now do what I say”

I get that there are some independent issues with some skills or modifiers but this skill/trait/utility roll out is almost entirely what someone like myself had imagined the thief when the game was announced and is an idea that fits the mold almost feature for feature that people had proposed before, although more of the posts detailed unarmed combat with no weapon, but I don’t think the idea is something Anet ambushed us with, it’s very much what I’ve seen people asking for. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we can’t reason for some technical changes to clean the spec up a bit before it launches.

kash.9213:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I still have my doubts and of course I’m only speaking for myself.

As far as I can tell, these changes have been decided way before it is announced, thus no matter how much we try to reason with them, these changes are set in stone.

I suppose you “can” reason with them, but there’s no acknowledgement that they are even listening to reason.

They remind me of Mordin Solus from Mass Effect; “Objection noted, now do what I say”

I get that there are some independent issues with some skills or modifiers but this skill/trait/utility roll out is almost entirely what someone like myself had imagined the thief when the game was announced and is an idea that fits the mold almost feature for feature that people had proposed before, although more of the posts detailed unarmed combat with no weapon, but I don’t think the idea is something Anet ambushed us with, it’s very much what I’ve seen people asking for. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think we can’t reason for some technical changes to clean the spec up a bit before it launches.

That’s how it is. They showcase what people like so that they will pay for the $50 box only to either nerf them to the ground or take them away completely post launch.

Sure they may clean things up before launch, but the concern here is post launch where the real balancing takes place. I won’t be surprised if they add an effect like Revealed to counter excessive evades and call it Exhaustion.

Cynz.9437:

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if Elite specialisations are capable of enhancing existing aspects of the profession, like every single other one that was announced.

yeah too bad they had to actually destroy meta build just to they can sell spec…. lol

it is like: hey let me break your leg so i can sell you wheelchair super duper diamond pro 7000

Perfect example! I wouldn’t even mind if we had to take the new one, but why not just rework acro to be useful in its own useful way? just move the on evade traits from acro to the new one, initiative+health on evade would be worth about 1 trait and same with steal rcahrge+condi cleanse.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s how it is. They showcase what people like so that they will pay for the $50 box only to either nerf them to the ground or take them away completely post launch.

Sure they may clean things up before launch, but the concern here is post launch where the real balancing takes place. I won’t be surprised if they add an effect like Revealed to counter excessive evades and call it Exhaustion.

I get what you’re saying and I can’t argue it, by the time they gives thieves shiny new CD’s with the top hits of the 90’s everyone else is syncing their playlists over the cloud.

Cynz.9437:

Auesis.7301:

It’s almost as if Elite specialisations are capable of enhancing existing aspects of the profession, like every single other one that was announced.

yeah too bad they had to actually destroy meta build just to they can sell spec…. lol

it is like: hey let me break your leg so i can sell you wheelchair super duper diamond pro 7000

Let’s face some facts here.

If you’re invested enough in the game to care about what is and is not a meta build, you were going to buy any expansion that included new build options anyway.

MMO developers do not add new build options to the game and balance around the people that choose not to pay them for their work.

It’s like complaining blizzard “paywalled” SC2 players with each expansion’s new units.

When expansions or DLC release, any competitive meta is developed around the new content. This is true of every competitive game on purpose, because that content is intended to disrupt the meta.

They nerfed acro because they felt it was overpowered in the current meta (I don’t agree with them for the record) but they don’t feel it is overpowered in the new meta derived from every other elite spec being in that mix.

They also probably shifted acro to an e-spec so that it can’t combo with future ranged elite specs that would end up overpowered when combined with it, since by design you can not combine elite specs.

They didn’t “nerf acro to sell it back to us”

They nerfed acro because they felt it was unbalanced in an arena full of nothing but other non-elite specs. They added the elite spec because they felt it was balanced in an arena full of their other elite specs.

They knew they would get this backlash and they did it anyway because in their opinion it was healthier for the game in the long run. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. I hope it is true, and the build limitations implicit in the elite spec design allow previously unthinkable build variations and styles for every class, including ours.

What the Pope said.

I don’t understand the argument of “nerfed acro to sell it back to us” either.

You were all gonna buy the expansion anyway…

And if not, you obviously don’t like the game enough to invest money into it, why even bother complaining about mechanics being added to it in that case?

Only ones who play GW2 who shouldn’t be getting the expansion are those who can’t afford it upon it’s release date and in which case are just gonna wait till they have the money.

Seriously, the more time I spend in here, the more I end up understanding why Anet never shows up here. Thief community is borderline toxic. Luckily Pope and several others keep my hope for Thief community alive. It’s good to talk about how to improve classes and the game but just saying stuff like, “ANET JUST WANTS TO FORCE US TO GIVE THEM MUNNIEZ” is just ridiculous. They obviously do want your business, that’s why they continue to make content and support the game but you guys make it sound like we’re being pushed around by EA and Ubisoft.

PopeUrban.2578:

They nerfed acro because they felt it was overpowered in the current meta (I don’t agree with them for the record) but they don’t feel it is overpowered in the new meta derived from every other elite spec being in that mix.

I doubt this to be factual since the new Elite Spec of other profession has nothing that can deal with 24/7 evasion from the Thief’s Elite Spec.

Endless evasion is a problem in the current meta and it will stay as a problem in the new meta. Nothing will change and the end result is a major nerf to the new Thief’s Elite Spec.

What a Warrior’s Berserker Spec will do against something they cannot touch except to QQ until the Thief is nerfed again?

They also probably shifted acro to an e-spec so that it can’t combo with future ranged elite specs that would end up overpowered when combined with it, since by design you can not combine elite specs.

That’s a lot of assumptions there.

They didn’t “nerf acro to sell it back to us”

Sorry but that is a fact. You’re just cherry picking which “facts” you like to call fact.

If they will release the Elite Spec without the need for expansion, just like what other MMO does, then sure, I believe you — but to gate something we’ve paid for when we bought the Core game behind a fifty dollar pay wall is proof that they “nerf acro to sell it back to us”.

They nerfed acro because they felt it was unbalanced in an arena full of nothing but other non-elite specs. They added the elite spec because they felt it was balanced in an arena full of their other elite specs.

That’s not even remotely true. None of the Elite Spec from other professions can handle a 24/7 evader. This Thief Elite Spec is too good to be true and a lot of Thief players can see that. If they release this as is, it is inevitable that it will get a major nerf where the profession is useless again.

They knew they would get this backlash and they did it anyway because in their opinion it was healthier for the game in the long run. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. I hope it is true, and the build limitations implicit in the elite spec design allow previously unthinkable build variations and styles for every class, including ours.

The latest blog revealed that this Elite Spec is designed for PvE, fine I get it. However, once this spec is used in PvP, without separating the two game mode, this spec will suffer once the balance team “tweaks” the numbers. This is always been the case that’s why a lot of the Thief’s skills, traits, attack animations, and many other bugs exists in PvE. As long as it is balanced in PvP, they could care less what’s going on in PvE even though their own Dev cannot even survive a Fractal run because the numbers are balanced in PvP, but severely underpowered in PvE.

I think hating the new thief elite spec on the basis that it’ll get nerfed is kind of going a little far.

stof.9341:

I think hating the new thief elite spec on the basis that it’ll get nerfed is kind of going a little far.

It’s not the Elite Spec is getting the hate, it’s the inevitable PvP “balance”.

I like this Elite Spec a lot, just like I liked the old Trait lines. However due to PvP, my builds are now out of whack. This Elite Spec is destined to get nerfed in the name of PvP balance. This is the part I hate.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Is this community really that jaded? Anet wouldn’t be reading the forums and listening to us now if it weren’t for the drastic measures taken almost 2 years ago. So they can be reasoned with, it just isn’t easy to do.

Is the entire community that jaded? No. However, judging by the conspiracy theories that some people are trying to push, at least some of the community is, lol.

And for the record, the idea that ANet nerfed a spec looong before the release of an elite spec just to make that elite spec look better is completely ridiculous. This is especially true since from what we’ve seen, a S/D build can be played with the Daredevil specialization and picking up Daredevil doesn’t mean that you suddenly can’t pick up acro too.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

PopeUrban.2578:

They nerfed acro because they felt it was overpowered in the current meta (I don’t agree with them for the record) but they don’t feel it is overpowered in the new meta derived from every other elite spec being in that mix.

I doubt this to be factual since the new Elite Spec of other profession has nothing that can deal with 24/7 evasion from the Thief’s Elite Spec.

Endless evasion is a problem in the current meta and it will stay as a problem in the new meta. Nothing will change and the end result is a major nerf to the new Thief’s Elite Spec.

What a Warrior’s Berserker Spec will do against something they cannot touch except to QQ until the Thief is nerfed again?

They also probably shifted acro to an e-spec so that it can’t combo with future ranged elite specs that would end up overpowered when combined with it, since by design you can not combine elite specs.

That’s a lot of assumptions there.

They didn’t “nerf acro to sell it back to us”

Sorry but that is a fact. You’re just cherry picking which “facts” you like to call fact.

If they will release the Elite Spec without the need for expansion, just like what other MMO does, then sure, I believe you — but to gate something we’ve paid for when we bought the Core game behind a fifty dollar pay wall is proof that they “nerf acro to sell it back to us”.

They nerfed acro because they felt it was unbalanced in an arena full of nothing but other non-elite specs. They added the elite spec because they felt it was balanced in an arena full of their other elite specs.

That’s not even remotely true. None of the Elite Spec from other professions can handle a 24/7 evader. This Thief Elite Spec is too good to be true and a lot of Thief players can see that. If they release this as is, it is inevitable that it will get a major nerf where the profession is useless again.

They knew they would get this backlash and they did it anyway because in their opinion it was healthier for the game in the long run. Whether that is true or not remains to be seen. I hope it is true, and the build limitations implicit in the elite spec design allow previously unthinkable build variations and styles for every class, including ours.

The latest blog revealed that this Elite Spec is designed for PvE, fine I get it. However, once this spec is used in PvP, without separating the two game mode, this spec will suffer once the balance team “tweaks” the numbers. This is always been the case that’s why a lot of the Thief’s skills, traits, attack animations, and many other bugs exists in PvE. As long as it is balanced in PvP, they could care less what’s going on in PvE even though their own Dev cannot even survive a Fractal run because the numbers are balanced in PvP, but severely underpowered in PvE.

Well thought out post, but its still based on a pair of massive assumptions that have no grounding in reality.

I’m not cherry picking facts when I say that:

A – You can not combine elite specs with other elite specs.
B – This is an evade focused spec
C – This was designed for release at the same time as the other specs

There is literally no other logical reason to take from acro and add it back unless, as you suggest, it is a blatant cash grab.

If you truly believe that was the sole intent here, I wonder why you’re playing the game. I wouldn’t be financially supporting a company with such sleazy business practices, and in fact anet has shown repeatedly that it would rather make customers feel like their money is well spent and engender good will to encourage them to spend money than to wring it out of them by making the alternative an incomplete game experience.

Take a look around the achievements and new level up system granting more black lion items, the LW content, the way S1 rewards were added to laurels in stead of the gem store, and the inclusion of a free black lion item once a week from login rewards.

Take a look at how, when people raised an issue about thebundle price of the expansion they added a char slot to existing accounts that buy it.

Anet makes mistakes, and they screw up balance, and they’re often out of touch with their player base in terms of balance and mechanics, but they’re not actually out just to screw over their customers for a quick buck. Their business model is not sustainable if people don’t WANT to spend money on gems, and people that feel cheated out of their money do not want to spend money on cosmetics and fluff items.

PopeUrban.2578:

Well thought out post, but its still based on a pair of massive assumptions that have no grounding in reality.

Which are?

I’m not cherry picking facts when I say that:

A – You can not combine elite specs with other elite specs.
B – This is an evade focused spec
C – This was designed for release at the same time as the other specs

Those are the cherries you picked.

A – There are no evidence that there will be “other elite specs” nor “you cannot combine elite specs” — that is not factual, that’s your assumption or educated guess.
B – Not really. Sure there are evades in the spec, but most are dealing AoE and single target damage.
C – Whatever do you mean by this. This is not in your previous post.

There is literally no other logical reason to take from acro and add it back unless, as you suggest, it is a blatant cash grab.

It is undeniably obvious.

For example; When WoW restructured their skills and talents, they didn’t gate it behind an expansion pay wall. Instead they released the changes and the new skills and talents for eveyone so there will be no disparity between those with expansion and those without expansion. The expansion is solely designed for added new contents, not for pay to win Elite Spec.

Obviously, all Thiefs with expansion will build around this Elite Spec seeing how OP it is.

If you truly believe that was the sole intent here, I wonder why you’re playing the game. I wouldn’t be financially supporting a company with such sleazy business practices, and in fact anet has shown repeatedly that it would rather make customers feel like their money is well spent and engender good will to encourage them to spend money than to wring it out of them by making the alternative an incomplete game experience.

I play the game because I’ve paid for it — thought that was obvious. However, would I spend more money? Nope. I’m not buying what I don’t like. If this Elite Spec starts to dominate PvP, it is inevitable that this expansion, if not this game, will be branded as Pay-to-Win game.

Take a look around the achievements and new level up system granting more black lion items, the LW content, the way S1 rewards were added to laurels in stead of the gem store, and the inclusion of a free black lion item once a week from login rewards.

These are necessary change that any game has to make if they want players to keep playing their game. What’s your point?

Take a look at how, when people raised an issue about thebundle price of the expansion they added a char slot to existing accounts that buy it.

People shouldn’t have to raise an issue because ArenaNet have always included two Character Slots with their expansion if you look back at the original Guild Wars. Also, for the record, I’m one of those players that when I like the product, I don’t just buy the regular edition, I’m one of those who buys the Collector’s Edition because I like product and I’m supporting the effort of the Dev.

Anet makes mistakes, and they screw up balance, and they’re often out of touch with their player base in terms of balance and mechanics, but they’re not actually out just to screw over their customers for a quick buck.

Their business design, without monthly fee, begs to differ. They have to make money somehow. Their “mistakes” are costing them sure enough, but this is easily remedied. All the have to do is to stop shaking things up to a point where players can no longer recognize their profession. Stability and consistency are the principles they have abandoned. There was a time whey they believe that you can leave the game for some time and get back where you left off — that’s no longer the case.

Their business model is not sustainable if people don’t WANT to spend money on gems, and people that feel cheated out of their money do not want to spend money on cosmetics and fluff items.

If they make a good product, they don’t need to convince people to spend money because people will be throwing cash at the thier monitor. However, if they make a product that is so obvious as a Pay-to-Win or bait-and-switch, people will be hesitant to spend their money. That is the problem they are facing right now.

Obviously the expansion is overpriced judging by the size of the content and to take something from the core game only to be added back into the expansion is a bad business practice that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

@ Vincent: Weren’t you going to quit? If so, feel free to head on out of here. We get it. You’re upset about everything and think that ANet are some evil money grabbers who get their jollies from scamming you.

I’m failing to see how fifty dollars is overpriced when that’s how much I’ve seen expansions go for since forever.

In much more expensive games, to boot.

WindGodGirl.6405:

I’m failing to see how fifty dollars is overpriced when that’s how much I’ve seen expansions go for since forever.

In much more expensive games, to boot.

Yea, if you bought the game at $60 and then the xpac for $50, you paid $110 total for 3 years worth of content, plus the expac when it releases.

If you played WoW, then you paid $15 a month for 3 years, totaling $540!

And that’s not even including the $50 cost of the base game and each expansion…

So, if you think that GW2 is at least 1/5th as fun as WoW, you’re getting a bargain.

WindGodGirl.6405:

I’m failing to see how fifty dollars is overpriced when that’s how much I’ve seen expansions go for since forever.

It’s not about how much other expansions are going for, it’s about how much contents are you getting from HoT for that price.

You value the product on its own merit not because WoW sold their expansion for $50.

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Yea, do that same thing with every other game that comes out with an expansion…

Welcome to video games. That’s why it’s an expansion and not a sequel.

P.s. We get it. You don’t wanna play it. Feel free to stop trolling these forums and go find your magical game where you get what you consider to be your money’s worth.

A – There are no evidence that there will be “other elite specs” nor “you cannot combine elite specs” — that is not factual, that’s your assumption or educated guess.

You are wrong.. when they first announced elite specs they said it was going to be used as a basis to add more elite specs to the game as the future and was one of the reasons we had the whole traitline thing reworked. Secondly you cant combine elite specs, again this was stated and its the reason that the bottom spec slot has a gold tint/outline, since its where you elite spec has to sit.

Poor thieves…at least Karl made a copy/paste from another profession for dragon hunter.
For thieves it is even worse…it comes from another line of the same profession.

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Yea, do that same thing with every other game that comes out with an expansion…

Welcome to video games. That’s why it’s an expansion and not a sequel.

P.s. We get it. You don’t wanna play it. Feel free to stop trolling these forums and go find your magical game where you get what you consider to be your money’s worth.

He won’t. You’re talking about a guy who has a website dedicated to whining about GW2. Don’t believe me? Click the link in his signature.

Rain.9213:

Dahkeus.8243:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

WindGodGirl.6405:

And that’s exactly what I’m doing.

For my fifty dollars three years ago, I got a fun, fulfilling experience that I still enjoy to this day.

For fifty dollars now, I get to enjoy:

• A new class, complete with it’s own Elite specialization
• A new elite specialization for each profession I already have
• Several new huge zones to explore
• A new, interesting way to travel around said new zones
• More story and lore to enjoy (since I actually care about that sort of thing)
• More legendaries to aim for cuz muh braggin’ rights
• Guild halls, cuz holy crap, finally
• Supporting a game I well and truly enjoy
• A bunch of PvP stuff that I didn’t pay much attention to

I enjoy exploring. I enjoy story. I enjoy just looking at pretty scenery. If all this new, shiny stuff isn’t worth it to you, that’s fine, I guess. But I’m not gonna sit here and pretend that I’m not getting enough bang for my buck, especially since there is likely going to be new stuff added steadily after the initial release, as has been Anet’s way of doing GW2 content since Living Story season one.

Now compare that list to the one you get when you purchased the Core game for the same price.

Get the picture?

Yea, do that same thing with every other game that comes out with an expansion…

Welcome to video games. That’s why it’s an expansion and not a sequel.

P.s. We get it. You don’t wanna play it. Feel free to stop trolling these forums and go find your magical game where you get what you consider to be your money’s worth.

He won’t. You’re talking about a guy who has a website dedicated to whining about GW2. Don’t believe me? Click the link in his signature.

I’ll take your word for it. It wouldn’t surprise me and I’m certainly not going to contribute hits to it.

Sigmoid.7082:

A – There are no evidence that there will be “other elite specs” nor “you cannot combine elite specs” — that is not factual, that’s your assumption or educated guess.

You are wrong.. when they first announced elite specs they said it was going to be used as a basis to add more elite specs to the game as the future and was one of the reasons we had the whole traitline thing reworked.

Yes it was redesigned to allow future specs, but no mention that they going to add new specs. A truck with a hitch hook up in case the truck will tow a trailer doesn’t mean that the truck will be used for towing trailer.

…Secondly you cant combine elite specs, again this was stated and its the reason that the bottom spec slot has a gold tint/outline, since its where you elite spec has to sit.

Since there are no details of ever adding new Elite Specs for the same profession, where are you getting this information from as if they are going to add new Elite Specs for the same profession?

They have gone on the record several times during HoT coverage to say that the plan is for more elite specs going forward, with a maximum of one chosen at a time. Specializations and Mastery Points are literally the linchpin of their plan for the future progression and customization systems of the game.

Knowing ANet though, we probably won’t see another specialization of any kind for 4-5 years, if ever

It’s kind of sad how much of a rip off this is. The entire purpose of the Acrobatics traitline was to provide extra dodging and power through evasion. They’ve essentially taken away something that we already had only to bring it back, but lock it behind a price gate of $50.

For now, characters will only be able to equip a single elite specialization. Doing so will be as easy as it currently is to swap trait points; simply exit combat and select your new elite specialization, or do it in Heart of the Mists for PvP. We made this system to build upon it, so let the speculation about future specializations begin before we’ve even revealed the first full set!

Amante.8109:

They have gone on the record several times during HoT coverage to say that the plan is for more elite specs going forward, with a maximum of one chosen at a time. Specializations and Mastery Points are literally the linchpin of their plan for the future progression and customization systems of the game.

They also have planned for the game to be about a lot of things that never happen.

Knowing ANet though, we probably won’t see another specialization of any kind for 4-5 years, if ever

lol, if they really do what they said they planned to do, then we wouldn’t be as skeptic about what they say.

It is my opinion that everything they said is BS until I see in game.

Sigmoid.7082:

For now, characters will only be able to equip a single elite specialization. Doing so will be as easy as it currently is to swap trait points; simply exit combat and select your new elite specialization, or do it in Heart of the Mists for PvP. We made this system to build upon it, so let the speculation about future specializations begin before we’ve even revealed the first full set!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

A truck with a hitch hook up in case the truck will tow a trailer doesn’t mean that the truck will be used for towing trailer.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Since there are no details of ever adding new Elite Specs for the same profession, where are you getting this information from as if they are going to add new Elite Specs for the same profession?

I guess GW2 could crash and burn suddenly which would prevent ANet from releasing more elite specs yeah. But saying they aren’t going to is some serious denial.

Heck, the interface where you choose which spec to equip has room for 7 more specs (6 once we get HoT) for no good reason other than having room for more elite specs.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sigmoid.7082:

For now, characters will only be able to equip a single elite specialization. Doing so will be as easy as it currently is to swap trait points; simply exit combat and select your new elite specialization, or do it in Heart of the Mists for PvP. We made this system to build upon it, so let the speculation about future specializations begin before we’ve even revealed the first full set!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

A truck with a hitch hook up in case the truck will tow a trailer doesn’t mean that the truck will be used for towing trailer.

Your analogy is terrible. Their last system fits your analogy. Just cause they could add new traits and weapons never meant they did.

The new one is more like lego, k’nex or that entire genre of toys. Why redesign a whole system, sink hours of time, resources and $$$$ into it for the sole purpose of making it expendable, state you will expand upon it and then don’t do that. You have your base item then the clip ons/offs.

They have already stated years ago that they would be adding new weapons to classes, new traits and new things. This is why this change was made and this elite spec system is the way they are going to implement that expansion.

Another reason you can only use one spec at a time is to avoid the balancing issues they had with GW1. Every time they expanded they added new skills but since the new skills were not mutually exclusive they needed to balance any new skills against an increasing number of abilities. If you played GW1 you would know because of that so many skills became redundant as expansions went by. Now with this new system they avoid that problem as well as the problem of having to buy the expansion to stay ahead. Because you can only use one at a time you still need to use two core specs, this means people who didnt buy the expansion or the next expansion/pack with the next set of elite specs isn’t super far out or super lacking because 2/3rd of their build will be accessible to anyone.

Sorry but cant help but say you are wrong :/

I agree, I like the DD spec, but they need to restore Acrobatics to what it was too.

Sigmoid.7082:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sigmoid.7082:

For now, characters will only be able to equip a single elite specialization. Doing so will be as easy as it currently is to swap trait points; simply exit combat and select your new elite specialization, or do it in Heart of the Mists for PvP. We made this system to build upon it, so let the speculation about future specializations begin before we’ve even revealed the first full set!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

A truck with a hitch hook up in case the truck will tow a trailer doesn’t mean that the truck will be used for towing trailer.

Your analogy is terrible. Their last system fits your analogy. Just cause they could add new traits and weapons never meant they did.

They also said that they won’t be doing expansions, instead they will do the LS route…yet we’re talking about one right now.

What they meant to do is not always what’s being done.

The new one is more like lego, k’nex or that entire genre of toys. Why redesign a whole system, sink hours of time, resources and $$$$ into it for the sole purpose of making it expendable, state you will expand upon it and then don’t do that. You have your base item then the clip ons/offs.

I understand the modulation design but it doesn’t necessarily means that they will add new modules. For all we know, they can redesign the whole system again and remove the modulation because they’ve decided that they aren’t going to do that anymore — you want proof? See the Living Story.

They have already stated years ago that they would be adding new weapons to classes, new traits and new things. This is why this change was made and this elite spec system is the way they are going to implement that expansion.

They also said that they won’t be doing expansions, instead they will do the LS route…yet we’re talking about one right now.

Wait I already said that.

Another reason you can only use one spec at a time is to avoid the balancing issues they had with GW1. Every time they expanded they added new skills but since the new skills were not mutually exclusive they needed to balance any new skills against an increasing number of abilities. If you played GW1 you would know because of that so many skills became redundant as expansions went by.

Yet another proof that when they said that they will add new things into the game that never happen. You can only add so much to the game, in case of GW2, it would have been better to fix what we have now than make things more complicated by adding new things to balance. I thought this lesson was learned from GW1 already. More things don’t necessarily means a good thing.

Now with this new system they avoid that problem as well as the problem of having to buy the expansion to stay ahead. Because you can only use one at a time you still need to use two core specs, this means people who didnt buy the expansion or the next expansion/pack with the next set of elite specs isn’t super far out or super lacking because 2/3rd of their build will be accessible to anyone.

Oh please. Everyone can see how OP the Thief Elite Spec is and how mediocre your character will be without it. You seriously think that our current skills and Acrobat can supplement the Daredevil skills and traits? Without the expansion, there will be disparity between those with and those without.

Sorry but cant help but say you are wrong :/

That is your opinion, even though you failed to prove it.

Old acrobatics, on the evasion front, was completely nuts. In conjunction with Trickery, it gave you 12 extra dodges over the course of a minute long fight, which was totally nuts, and (over)-nerfed down to the 4.2 extra we get from that combination today.

What does the ‘new’ Acrobatics give in conjunction with Trickery? 5.3. It’s slightly better than Acrobatics in that combination, but 5.3 is a pretty far cry from 12. An extra dodge up front and an additional one every time you land steal is nowhere near the evasion that old Feline Grace gave.

Feline Grace wasn’t hammered to make room for Daredevil – it was hammered because it was wildly overpowered.

Ensign.2189:

Feline Grace wasn’t hammered to make room for Daredevil – it was hammered because it was wildly overpowered.

Yet Daredevil gets 150 Endurance (which what Feline Grace was) and a whole plethora of other source of vigor, endurance, and evades.

If you think that the old Feline Grace was wildly overpowered, then you should agree that Daredevil will be worst than what Acrobat used to be.

Actually, the old Feline Grace was MUCH stronger than the basic +50 endurance DD gets.

Same that going from 10k HP to 15k HP is much weaker than getting 33% less damage : in the long run it gives you a LOT more dodges once you take regen into account.

Daredevil is allowed to be super strong evasively BECAUSE it’s Elite. As in, you couldn’t take it with another Elite Spec down the line and have the best of everything ever. You can take Acrobatics whenever you want with anything because it’s a Core Spec. Acrobatics now has its own place in assisting with evasive playstyles but doesn’t hold you up completely on its own. FG was ridiculous. Was it overnerfed? Perhaps.

Also, DD does NOT have any Vigor. Literally none. Acrobatics and Bountiful Theft hold all the power over Vigor.

Vincent, did you seriously just say an expansion was a “pay to win” mechanic?

Also, your previous $50 purchase of the base game is going free to play according to the IGN early reveal.

That’s right, this was all a huge ploy to get you to spend $50 on their game and then give it to everyone else for free.

They’re also in collusion with your power company. Given the evidence it is clear that daily login rewards and achievements exist solely to make you turn on your computer and paw money to your power company. Anet probably gets a cut of that.

I mean it costs power to run the computer, and you have to run the computer to get your login reward, thus it follows that the only reason login rewars exist is to make you waste power, right?

It’s impossible that it isn’t a direct causal relationship aimed at persecuting you, the customer.

It’s fine to say it sucks that acro is redundant now. It does suck. Your position that the spec (and the expansion for that matter) are blatant cash grabs with total disregard for the customer is a whole other thing.

Go play some Archeage or browse the app store on your phone if you want to see what shamelessly milking the customer without regard for the quality of your product looks like.

This ain’kitten You just have a massive persecution complex.

Auesis.7301:

Daredevil is allowed to be super strong evasively BECAUSE it’s Elite. As in, you couldn’t take it with another Elite Spec down the line and have the best of everything ever. You can take Acrobatics whenever you want with anything because it’s a Core Spec. Acrobatics now has its own place in assisting with evasive playstyles but doesn’t hold you up completely on its own. FG was ridiculous. Was it overnerfed? Perhaps.

That’s the thing, whey nerf Feline Grace to only bring it back and a more “elite” manner? Just because it’s an Elite Spec doesn’t mean that it is allowed to be OP.

Also, DD does NOT have any Vigor. Literally none.

That’s not what I meant. I should probably rephrase.

Yet Daredevil gets 150 Endurance (which what Feline Grace was) in addition to a whole plethora of other source of vigor, endurance, and evades from other traits.

Sorry for the vagueness.

PopeUrban.2578:

Vincent, did you seriously just say an expansion was a “pay to win” mechanic?

No I didn’t. What I said is that the disparity would make it look that way if the new spec dominated PvP.

Read carefully next time.

Also, your previous $50 purchase of the base game is going free to play according to the IGN early reveal.

That’s right, this was all a huge ploy to get you to spend $50 on their game and then give it to everyone else for free.

I could careless about what they do with their core game. You’re assuming that I am one of those who complaints about that. Sorry to disappoint you.

As I’ve mentioned, I value the product with its merit — you know what that means right?

They’re also in collusion with your power company. Given the evidence it is clear that daily login rewards and achievements exist solely to make you turn on your computer and paw money to your power company. Anet probably gets a cut of that. I mean it costs power to run the computer, and you have to run the computer to get your login reward, thus it follows that the only reason login rewars exist is to make you waste power, right?

If you’re going to insult a reasonable complaint at least make it believable and not spew garbage all over and stinking up the place.

It’s impossible that it isn’t a direct causal relationship aimed at persecuting you, the customer.

That is your opinion which is not shared by anyone who has a reasonable complaint.

Your post, sir Pope, is the very definiton to toxicity.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Yet Daredevil gets 150 Endurance (which what Feline Grace was) and a whole plethora of other source of vigor, endurance, and evades.

Daredevil gets +50 endurance up front and +50 when you steal. There are traits to give a modest amount of endurance when you use a physical skill and when you use initiative on a staff skill (which is an evade-light weapon). There are 0 sources of vigor and no additional evades from the traits.

Daredevil does not give anything even remotely close to the same amount of evasion as the old Acrobatics – if you bother to do the math, new Acrobatics plus Trickery plus Daredevil (that is, all three trait lines) is still well behind what old Acrobatics plus Trickery did, and roughly on par with what old Acrobatics did on its own.

In fact, the +50 endurance up front and +50 endurance on steal, when combined with the trickery recharge, is barely on par with what the old Feline Grace did on its own – and they don’t play anywhere near as nicely with vigor as Feline Grace did.

Claims that Daredevil is the old Acrobatics are highly exaggerated and not grounded at all in what the new traits actually say they do.