Guild Wars 2

So I’ve been having a hard time coping with how sad Thieves are in Gw2 and I was wanting some community input.
So……

Not only do I have absolutely no armor, but it turns out my weapons do no damage. (compared to other classes) Sword and dagger? lulz. Better damage could be attained using a stick (Mh) and a dead fish (off-hand) Been working with every type of build/weapon combo imaginable and yet I can’t even begin to keep up with other classes. I was doing an event by myself, I can’t remember where but the objective was to take the ogre camp and kill the 3 ogre chiefs. So, struggling as I was with the ranged mobs running around avoiding all damage because, as you may know, I am frequently two shotted by mobs. Then a warrior comes up, same level as me, and starts bossing everything? To add to that he is tanking about 4 mobs and a Veteran Ogre Chief. In my 30 second fight with a Ogre, he managed to kill 4 Ogre’s and the Veteran Ogre Chief, all the while just eating up all the damage dealt to him. It makes me not even want to play my thief because unless I get someone alone in Structured PvP, there is no chance for me to win. This is not a skill issue because, in all humility, I’m a hardcore gamer.

I understand being two shotted by most mobs and this is the way it should be (sort of) because I am very quick with lots of avoidance abilities. This is not the part that upsets me. It’s the FACT that no matter what, I CANNOT keep up with damage output with ANY other class.

So, enough QQing…….thoughts?

thief damage output is lower than most at low levels, but with a condition damage build, you can just use death blossom from dagger dagger, and dagger pistols sneak attack/auto attack to kite everything to death, with competitive dps. another way is sword/pistol. still has decent damage, and can stand there and beat things to death with AoE blinds from black powder and utility and pistol whip stuns, among other things.

I’m more concerned with viability of the thief. I’m forced to use weapon combo’s that are not enjoyable to me in order to keep up with damage (what little that may be) . And the ability to Kite enemies is basically unprecedented when it comes to Thief gameplay but in PvP those skills become almost completely useless (Unless your 1v1)

You mention ogres… What level are you? Straight damage-based builds don’t really work well until you’ve got access to triple-stat gear, and aren’t actually great until you’ve got exotics.

Sword/Pistol just rolls over PvE, though. At most you’ll need an anti-range skill like Smoke Screen or Dagger Storm for some fights.

Sword/Dagger is a trickier beast. I mostly WvW with it. It can work alright in PvE as well, but I feel like it really needs traits (for initiative management and blinding) and gear (for the damage boost) to succeed. Compared to S/P, your defense relies on timing rather than positioning, and you’re more likely to run out of resources during a protracted fight.

I’m a condition build level 40 using duel pistols and a short bow. I would love to use D/D but unless it’s 1v1 on a non Vet mob, it’s a two shot then to the grave. My PvP testing took place (In the heart of the mists) with all weapon combo’s, my own builds, suggested build (from other players) and build that I researched online.

You say Thief has no damage but I just came from testing both of them in full berserker mode in sPvP and the damage I do whit Thief Sword is literarely double than the damage I do on Warrior whit Greatsword both normal hits.Yes you heard me right.The numbers whit GS on warrior were between 700-900 and thief 1600 -2000.

If you’re a hardcore gamer you should know that any classes that get nerfed tend to be OP or have high out put damage.

I just recently reached level 80 on my thief and I rand from level 45 to level 80 with level 40 gear. I had level 54 daggers and a 62 bow(the only yellow). I could take out probably 3 monsters at a time using a combination of bow and daggers. Of course.. I had to be jumping everywhere and was well ahead of the level (Killing level 50 monsters at level 70). I did feel though that I could use more power though, because it was more about how long it took, if I was just a bit stronger in overall DPS I could finish them. The defense of a thief doesn’t come from the armor, it comes more from the ability to avoid being dealt damage such as stealth, dodging, or blinding everything… everything!

One thing I didn’t struggle was with ranged mobs at all. Well except Imps. I struggled more with 4 mobs+.

My suggestion for you is to at least always have armor within 5 levels & weapons also. Also, try out the other type of weapons. Something that will make your life so much easier will be shadow’s refuge or some stealth skill+a regen trait. I also recommend you go Crit base or Condition damage, like ASP said, straight damage build won’t really work out for you until very end.

One thing though. I never played with sword. I hated it and the DPS was really weird. It didn’t have conditions or a remotely useful coming out of stealth skill. I played dual pistol and dual dagger and bow most of the time. Dual pistol will let you take on one one beasts with the smoke field but it will take forever, but was still really useful.

Oh PS: Yah I hated doing those events where it was “take out this x3” and normally I could take them out but it would take me around 8 minutes to do so and half the time a group or just one person would come in at the last 2 minutes and kill the last mob within 50 seconds… It made me so depressed but I never died on the upside

Your obviously not specced properly as the warrior then if your only hitting for 700-900. Also, keep your input constructive. kthx

Another good point xyger, I suppose I just have to get used to dragging fights out for 20 minutes lulz. So, to answer my main question, is there ANY way to keep up with the other classes as far as damage output? Most of my curiosity on the topic has be satisfied besides this one factor. Can I keep up with DPS endgame? Assuming I’m built correctly.

I think thieves’ SPvP stats are actually a bit underwhelming. Because the Zerk/Zerk amulet doesn’t stack up stats as nicely as wearing 14 individual pieces of Zerk gear. IIRC, it’s a damage difference of around 25% (nowadays there are also differences in some of the skills, like C&D).

I have on armor set for PvE and WvW: full zerk. Works great. Most mobs die in two passes through my autoattack chain. My clusterbombs hit like a truck, too — 4k-6k isn’t bad for a ranged area attack. (Arguably it’s not a “full” glass-cannon build since I don’t like Deadly Arts nearly as much as other thieves do. Mug and the extra Power would be nice, but I prefer to jack up my crits, dodging, and initiative regen. But, well, definitely focused on damage output.)

Oh definitely yes. Right now I do more damage then ever and I’m not even remotely complete. A PvE Backstab thief (if played right) can do serious damage, usually half the 1/3 of the monster in two hits. So do that 3 times and you kill it. Bow damage is insane if you go pure condition build, poision + sigil of earth creates really nice DPS & has great survivability and ini- management. Pistols… at endgame I don’t really want to know, they get to be really crappy as a main hand weapon. Off-hand w/ Sword-Pistol or Dagger-Pistol is still good though. Pistol is more of a constant crit damage sort of gameplay with support skills such as Body Shot, Pistol Unload (or something), and cripple. (Although I found it insane if you did Haste or Quickness + Pure Crit Damage/Crit chance) Wastes your Ini like crazy too.

Thank you ASP, more helpful information, so basically, I shouldn’t be basing (for the most part) end-game pvp damage on mists because of the stat reduction of structured?

Ahhh, this is why I came to the forums. Personal info gold basically. Anyway, I’m wasting tons of initiative on my unload skill without a high enough damage output so make using that much worth it? Because that would make more sense about why the damage out put is so low. Back to D/D I suppose. Thanks everyone for your comments!

I mean, presumably some of the enemies in structured also have comparatively reduced stats.

But crit damage is absurd when you pump it up as high as you can.

Basically, this was my experience while leveling:
See some mobs. Corral them together. Black Powder then autoattack… 5-1-1-1 5-1-1-1 5-1-1-1 5-1-1-1 5-1-1— they’re dead.
At 80, with exotics, in Orr, it’s more like this:
Same deal. 5-1-1-1 5-1-1-1 1 they’re dead.

Very noticeable difference. So noticeable that the first time I put on 80 exotic gear, I felt like a ninjariffic murdergod compared to my old self.

Now, can a PvE warrior specced for DPS do better? I’m honestly not sure. My suspicion is probably, but I suspect he’d have a harder time burning through big groups without getting smushed.

The catch is finding the right stuff to — evasion, blinding, &c. — to stay alive while you get those hits in. Sword/Pistol makes this pretty trivial. Some others make you work for it more.

IIRC, Dagger/Dagger has that Death Blossom evade thingy that works nicely with condition damage, but I haven’t tried it enough to really have a sense of its damage potential.

Yah, while thief could probably exceed a warrior going for the highest DPS, warrior will always be able to take on more foes.

You know what , you’re free to go on ,test yourself , then come back here and tell me that Warrior hits more than thief.
Now theres no doubt that Warrior is a PvE monster and realy has no equal but don’t say Thief weapons have no damage.
And if you’re having problems whit Thief maybe you’re not as hardcore as you might thing.

xyger.7349:

Yah, while thief could probably exceed a warrior going for the highest DPS, warrior will always be able to take on more foes.

Other way around, for me. The hard stuff in this game is more about active defense than Vitality and Toughness, and thieves have good active defense.

For instance, sometimes when I get bored in WvW I go solo-cap that quaggan weather thingy in the middle of the lake, with the big pile of krait in it; I’m not sure I could do the same with a warrior. (But I’m personally not a very good warrior.)

…

Mudkip,

I’ll try to get you a more concrete example. Maybe just some timestamped screenshots of play (I can’t really do FRAPS on my setup). Seems like it would be a better overall data point than just me saying things.

ok… to the OP.. thief damage and survivability is probably the best, let me give you an example.

I call the this Coal Black Challenge – call it what you will, but I came up with it on my own.

go to Heart of the Mists and take on the Blue lord and all his followers (whatever rotation you want), kill the followers first if you must, but the challenge is to kill the blue lord and his followers without using an elite skill and having them all dead for atleast 1 second… do you think you can manage that? I have and I play a thief, I have seen rangers/warriors/engineers etc FAIL miserably on this challenge, do you want to know why? because I’m Coal Black and I Play a thief.

try it, tell me how you go, if you do it on your first attempt, congrats, if not… nuf said.

SilentMudkip.8576:

I’m a condition build level 40 using duel pistols and a short bow. I would love to use D/D but unless it’s 1v1 on a non Vet mob, it’s a two shot then to the grave.

Yer not traited right or somethin’, then, ‘cause Dagger/Dagger is scary as burnin’ hell in PvE. I was always killin’ groups ah creatures jumpin’ in an’ out ah range, using Dagger Storm, Dancing Dagger, Poisons, Death Blossom, and mostly yer #2 power for mobility ‘cause I didn’ wanna get inta the trap ah spammin’ it like some people do. Trait heavy inta yer steal an’ use that every fight, First an’ Last line in yer trait list; for the rest I think I did Acrobatics, but I may be wrong an’ ya may want ta expirament a bit with that. (not playin’ that build right now) An’ use yer roll for healin’ instead of stealth. (plus roll for initiative for condition break – ya end up with basically 5-6 dodges with that build.)

Ya got no life with that build, but yer one hell of ah glass cannon. I’d walk away from fights an’ other players would Whisper me just ta say, “Wow”. (really happened a handful ah times.) But ya gotta keep movin’ with that build, gotta really rely on yer slipperiness as ah Thief, ‘cause ya’ll squeak by some fights with next ta nothin’ in life, but leavin’ a pile ah bodies behind ya. If yer still dyin’, practice allot on dodgin’ … someone in another thread had a good idea … go to a low level zone an’ practice dodgin’ one low level Ogre; then when yer really good at it, practice with two, when yer really good at that, practice with three. Since they don’ hit hard with yer high level armor, ya won’ be gettin’ killed much an’ ya’ll get good practice.

Most important thing in a build like this: Never stop movin’.