Guild Wars 2

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

How is it not fair, you beat him. Not sure of the backstab build he was running if he wasn’t critting. But if he was able to get several backstabs off you didn’t do too well of a job positioning yourself. But then again, you did beat him.

Lofat.2406:

How is it not fair, you beat him. Not sure of the backstab build he was running if he wasn’t critting. But if he was able to get several backstabs off you didn’t do too well of a job positioning yourself. But then again, you did beat him.

It’s hard to position oneself properly when up against someone who is invisible half the time. I was swatting my greatsword all over the place and I never hit him once while he was stealthed. Kudos to him I suppose for managing to avoid my sword like that, but still.

If it was easy, our class would be broken. There are things you can do to minimize the chances of a thief getting that many backstabs on you. Don’t stay in the same spot, make him work for his backstabs. If you’re fighting a thief, make it on your terms. Fighting out in the open makes it much easier for a thief to control the fight as opposed to working lines of sight to give you the advantage.

As a balanced build, 5.8k IS my crit (when I decide to run Dagger main hand every once in a while).

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

That was crits. And no its not fair, becouse agains a rly good player its close to impossible to land a backstab.

The highest backstab crit i’ve gotten on a bunker class was about 7k and it was only because I had about 12 stacks of might and full bloodlust stacks. I honestly don’t think that is Op when you consider how easy it is for a ranger to immobilise and rapid fire for 12k as a glass cannon and then follow it up with birdies of death ( I run a zerker ranger)

Oh I hate birdies of death … they allways fk up my hair

i run 0/30/0/15/25 depending on my crit i can hit up to 9k on backstabs…

Karolis.4261:

Oh I hate birdies of death … they allways fk up my hair

That made my day.

5.8k? Try 8k on 3400 armor.

Karolis.4261:

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

That was crits. And no its not fair, becouse agains a rly good player its close to impossible to land a backstab.

And how would ‘a rly good player’ know where to aim his back towards to prevent the backstab?

Assuming the 5.800 was a crit, which it must have been since I cannot imagine how you’d reach such numbers without critting, then it’s not exceptionally high.

About 6k is what a typical Backstab will hit for with most “balanced” Dagger/Dagger builds.

You should have come sooner. Back during the days of the old Assassin’s Singet it was possible to Crit people for upwards of 12k.

Agadar.4931:

Karolis.4261:

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

That was crits. And no its not fair, becouse agains a rly good player its close to impossible to land a backstab.

And how would ‘a rly good player’ know where to aim his back towards to prevent the backstab?

After playing against thiefs over and over you start to learn patterns. If a thief stealths (not counting shadow refuge, the big circle with a house on top of it), it’ll be for maximum 4 seconds. This means (when I’m facing a thief at least)
1) If he stealths from a distance, wait 1 second, dodge AWAY from where he stood and then hit in that direction. If he isn’t traited for 4 seconds, he’ll reveal himself before he got the backstab on you.
2) If he stealths with C&D (melee range). Dodge AWAY from where he stood, swing a couple times with your weapon, and either use aoe blindness or dodge again.
Extra option if you’re a thief: Just use C&D while walking backwards just after he used his c&d … 8/10 chances you’ll cloak as well and hope you can hit him first (blind guessing where he is … Whoever hits first has the upper hand)

As a longtime thief player, i don’t find it hard to counter enemy thieves anymore. Only when they us the steal combo but if Shadowstep is charged, that can also be escaped from.

When a d/d thief stealthes, you know he goes for your back. So you wait 1-2 seconds, dodge to his old position and turn around. He should now roughly be infront of you without any stealth time left to backstab you. If he uses shadow refuge however, you want to attack into it right away so he is forced to retreat it, without gaining the long stealth buff.

Of course this is all in theory but just keep this in mind when fighting them. It’s all about knowing your enemy. Play the thief, and you will learn it as well.

Thanks for the tips, lads. As for playing a thief myself, I have recently begun leveling one. They have always seemed to be the most interesting class to me right after my ranger.

5.8k is weak, tryi 13-17k from warrior with hundred blades. Then talk to me about “fair”.

NinjaEd.3946:

5.8k is weak, tryi 13-17k from warrior with hundred blades. Then talk to me about “fair”.

Hundred Blades? That incredibly obvious and easily dodged attack which roots the warrior into place?

Yeah.

Try again. Hundred blades + frenzy, you got either half a second to stun break or if your stun break is on cd well game over. Yeah, that skill. When without frenzy it is quite obvious, with bull’s charge + that and frenzy it is obnoxiously OP and overused.

I am yet to be killed by Hundred Blades, and I play a Ranger, a contender for the most lackluster class.

If you as a Thief with all of its escape capabilities cannot escape 100k blades, you’re doing something wrong.

You must have a 3rd eye, because apparently you can see the enemies behind you while you are trying to take out enemies. I have 2v1 ppl b4, I have survived a 3v1 situation b4, but as soon as a warrior gets involved out of nowhere with bulls charge at the right time + the combo, it isn’t avoidable unless you rely on pure luck. No, it’s not doing something wrong its warriors are too good at what they do, which is why it disgusts me to see thief nerf posts when this garbage is running around free. Wvw is competely differnet and I build different for it, but spvp and tpvp is smaller scale and warriors are just kitten strong in it.

You tell me how to counter a dual mace + hammer warrior and I will beleive something is possible here. They got access to way too much, and it isn’t balanced. Not saying Warriors are the only unbalanced professions in spvp/tpvp but they are amoung a growing disease of kittens that need exterminating.

No disrespect meant, but hearing a thief call out another class for being too strong amuses me. The thief is a strong and solid class with great synergy between weapon skills and utilities. I say enjoy it while it lasts.

I try to, but I already made another 80. Can only hope they dont nerf us but when they do…. thieves will be history.

Thieves access to more weapons.

You beat him, but somehow they are OP…

Thieves make huge sacrifices in defense in order to sustain such backstab damage,i can guarantee you that if he possessed this much burst, you would’ve done just as much damage back to him proportional to his 12-15k health. Let’s be realistic here, if you let a thief backstab you “several times” then you aren’t playing correctly. This simply demonstrates your lack of understanding in countering the thief class which consequently makes this post nothing but a big QQ. Anet has made it clear through the last patch that they believe most professions are relatively balanced, and thus, any future nerfs or buffs will be insignificant at most.

Is this thread strictly for trolling and fairy tales?

Kurow.6973:

Is this thread strictly for trolling and fairy tales?

Both! Post how thieves are OP, or post how thieves deserve more damage! Either way, people will not stop with “nerf thief posts” until they can walk up to one and press the kill switch on them to “counter” them.

I did not once call thieves overpowered, nor demanded a nerf.

Honestly that thief must have been bad. I play a ton of classes and I see rangers as free kills. but then again there maybe that unlike build that means something until that build becomes popular more free badges. Even when I mess around with my warrior I still see rangers as easy lol.

And this thread is just a qq thread. I’m honestly questioning your victory cause you are so sour about the class.

Wow. Really guys? Really? Why so mad and offended? Not once did he said that thieves were OP. He’s not trolling, you guys are just spamming. To the thief that said 100blades was the OP skill: no it’s not. If you forgot, thieves have the luxury of stealthing, thus making bs more consistent then 100blades (even with their knockdown).

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

1800 toughness, using GS, dodging for protection, while taking multiple of BS? I call bunker build! What was ur 2ndary weapon? bow or S/D? and which pet were u using? Classic case of bunker vs glassy thief. 5.8k probably IS his crit damage imo. When you stealth, BS on autoattack is given to you on default, but the dmg increases if you can actually pull off BS the the rear. The backstab skill is pretty balanced imo. What makes BS hard to survive against is the setup. Most thieves would prolly go basillisk venom, cloak and dagger+ steal, (basillisk venom stunning for 1.5 seconds), then backstab. If the invader is still alive they’ll just Heart seeker to finish you off. Keep in mind all of this is being pulled off within 3-4 seconds on average.

If he was specced in stealth, and wasn’t able to kill you, it’d be vice versa too. That being said, it’s prolly typical 25 deadly arts, 30 critical strikes, 15 trickery.

i kill players in 0.4 of a second as thief for those saying thief is weak you are a bunch of liars with auto attack alone i land 2.6-3k damage needless to say with daggers thats about 3-4 hits per 1.5 second my backstab does up to 8k damage on players with over 3000 armor steal alone does 7k damage itself and traited can even stealth wich links nicely -7k steal+8k backstab instantly the rest is done with auto attacks.

Rezzet.3614:

i kill players in 0.4 of a second as thief for those saying thief is weak you are a bunch of liars with auto attack alone i land 2.6-3k damage needless to say with daggers thats about 3-4 hits per 1.5 second my backstab does up to 8k damage on players with over 3000 armor steal alone does 7k damage itself and traited can even stealth wich links nicely -7k steal+8k backstab instantly the rest is done with auto attacks.

Oh…is that so!

This is getting old.Anet are clearly happy from the present state of thief,so you might wanna change the record.Maybe chose some real FOTM,like D/D ele or smtng?

I reguarly hit 9.5k using backstab.

I’ve just skipped to the end to say I’ve been hit by a guardian for over 7k. Ele’s and Mesmers for 16k in about 2 seconds, and other thieves C&D 6-7k and backstab over 7k.

I think the days of wowsers backstab damage OMG threads are pretty much through.

NinjaEd.3946:

You must have a 3rd eye, because apparently you can see the enemies behind you while you are trying to take out enemies. I have 2v1 ppl b4, I have survived a 3v1 situation b4, but as soon as a warrior gets involved out of nowhere with bulls charge at the right time + the combo, it isn’t avoidable unless you rely on pure luck. No, it’s not doing something wrong its warriors are too good at what they do, which is why it disgusts me to see thief nerf posts when this garbage is running around free.

Isn’t that exactly what backstab thieves do best, except there is a chance they jump in with their combo stealthed and unseen? O_o…

I think the culling issue in WvW enables thieves to land a lot more backstabs reliably, but otherwise the skill is balanced – it takes good positioning and set up to hit for big damage, which is a fair trade-off.

Cirax.9231:

NinjaEd.3946:

You must have a 3rd eye, because apparently you can see the enemies behind you while you are trying to take out enemies. I have 2v1 ppl b4, I have survived a 3v1 situation b4, but as soon as a warrior gets involved out of nowhere with bulls charge at the right time + the combo, it isn’t avoidable unless you rely on pure luck. No, it’s not doing something wrong its warriors are too good at what they do, which is why it disgusts me to see thief nerf posts when this garbage is running around free.

Isn’t that exactly what backstab thieves do best, except there is a chance they jump in with their combo stealthed and unseen? O_o…

I think the culling issue in WvW enables thieves to land a lot more backstabs reliably, but otherwise the skill is balanced – it takes good positioning and set up to hit for big damage, which is a fair trade-off.

Thats my point, people don’t see a thief coming, get killed, and say its unfair (not saying OP said this). But how often do I see/hear the same being said for warriors? OR elementalists? It’s miniscule compared to thief. Landing consecutive backstabs really means your enemy isn’t planning ahead or utilizing dodge/escape skills.

As a thief who has fought rangers b4 (yes rangers), the hardest one’s to fight are the one’s who use all traps. They run around, some have LB and shoot me back, and they keep their pet and traps on me. Sometimes I have to retreat and come back simply because I cannot continue. Also Muddy terrain helps against a HS spamming thief, they just sit there leaping in place or a very short distance. For stealth thieves, even though I seldom use stealth, I’d still say traps are the best way to get around them. They cannot teleport forever.

bladie.5084:

Wow. Really guys? Really? Why so mad and offended? Not once did he said that thieves were OP. He’s not trolling, you guys are just spamming. To the thief that said 100blades was the OP skill: no it’s not. If you forgot, thieves have the luxury of stealthing, thus making bs more consistent then 100blades (even with their knockdown).

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

1800 toughness, using GS, dodging for protection, while taking multiple of BS? I call bunker build! What was ur 2ndary weapon? bow or S/D? and which pet were u using? Classic case of bunker vs glassy thief. 5.8k probably IS his crit damage imo. When you stealth, BS on autoattack is given to you on default, but the dmg increases if you can actually pull off BS the the rear. The backstab skill is pretty balanced imo. What makes BS hard to survive against is the setup. Most thieves would prolly go basillisk venom, cloak and dagger+ steal, (basillisk venom stunning for 1.5 seconds), then backstab. If the invader is still alive they’ll just Heart seeker to finish you off. Keep in mind all of this is being pulled off within 3-4 seconds on average.

If he was specced in stealth, and wasn’t able to kill you, it’d be vice versa too. That being said, it’s prolly typical 25 deadly arts, 30 critical strikes, 15 trickery.

I was running a bunker build (0/0/30/10/30) with two drakes which I was testing out after the update. Said drakes now have a blast finisher and I was testing these out with Healing Spring and Frost Trap – with great succes. My weapons are indeed the Greatsword, and Axe/Warhorn.

To everyone who keeps saying I am calling thieves overpowered, you might want to reread all of my posts. I defeated the thief. It took some very quick reactions and button mashing, but I defeated him.

yet you asked if we thought the damage they dealt was fair in a way that made it clear you think it isn’t.

Agadar.4931:

bladie.5084:

Wow. Really guys? Really? Why so mad and offended? Not once did he said that thieves were OP. He’s not trolling, you guys are just spamming. To the thief that said 100blades was the OP skill: no it’s not. If you forgot, thieves have the luxury of stealthing, thus making bs more consistent then 100blades (even with their knockdown).

Agadar.4931:

Hello. Lifetime ranger and newborn thief here.

Just over an hour ago in WvW, a thief and I engaged one another in the open field. I managed to defeat him, however after checking the combat log it appeared he had hit me several times with a Backstab of 5.8k+ damage.

5.8k+ damage, against my ranger, who has 1800 toughness and who gets the protection boon for a second or two on every dodge. How is this much damage even possible? If those 5.8k hits had been crits instead, how high would it have been?

What build was this guy running? And do you think this much damage is fair?

1800 toughness, using GS, dodging for protection, while taking multiple of BS? I call bunker build! What was ur 2ndary weapon? bow or S/D? and which pet were u using? Classic case of bunker vs glassy thief. 5.8k probably IS his crit damage imo. When you stealth, BS on autoattack is given to you on default, but the dmg increases if you can actually pull off BS the the rear. The backstab skill is pretty balanced imo. What makes BS hard to survive against is the setup. Most thieves would prolly go basillisk venom, cloak and dagger+ steal, (basillisk venom stunning for 1.5 seconds), then backstab. If the invader is still alive they’ll just Heart seeker to finish you off. Keep in mind all of this is being pulled off within 3-4 seconds on average.

If he was specced in stealth, and wasn’t able to kill you, it’d be vice versa too. That being said, it’s prolly typical 25 deadly arts, 30 critical strikes, 15 trickery.

I was running a bunker build (0/0/30/10/30) with two drakes which I was testing out after the update. Said drakes now have a blast finisher and I was testing these out with Healing Spring and Frost Trap – with great succes. My weapons are indeed the Greatsword, and Axe/Warhorn.

To everyone who keeps saying I am calling thieves overpowered, you might want to reread all of my posts. I defeated the thief. It took some very quick reactions and button mashing, but I defeated him.

Greatsword is a very good choice to counter any Thief or melee. All Greatsword skills have great utility in a melee fight and the damage is not bad. Hope more people will realise this, because the Greatsword gives a 1100 range Leap (3# skill) and a 3 second activation time Block+pushback (#4 skill).

Anyway, your first post slightly implies you find Backstab damage not fair. And since you also suggest it was a critical hit, while its not possible to normal hit for 5k with Backstab, people do react as such.

Dasorine.1964:

yet you asked if we thought the damage they dealt was fair in a way that made it clear you think it isn’t.

I am surprised by the amount of damage, is all.

5.8k is enormous damage?

This thread is kitten hilarious.

http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1357105600_gw042.jpg

That 5.8k dmg for a backstab if they were crits is nothing to kitten about. ;p

Stabbing naked charr a lot ?

8.4k criticals on a guy with 3000+ armor with quickness+berserk.

swinsk.6410:

5.8k is enormous damage?

This thread is kitten hilarious.

The player in question has about 80% damage reduction, although my calculations could be slightly off since I don’t have in-game access atm.

So 5.8k / .2 = 29k base damage, or 22k damage against a glass cannon target is actually a rather good chunk of damage.

Edit: Said 22k damage is probably about 10k non-crit, 8k without %dmg buffs, 6k without power stacking sigils/food/Might.

I have six 80’s, one of which is a thief that I am learning to dearly love (thanks Lofat for the p/p build!!). In the interests of keeping it real. My guardian with 3200 (and some change) armor has been backstabbed in excess of 8k. Maybe it’s rare and random, but it can happen. Combine that with 5-6k steal, and 6-7k CnD and things get out of hand quickly. Does it happen every time to my guardian? No. But it can happen. It makes armor feel utterly useless. Then again, all my 80’s have run into the bull rush/100 blades attack and without a stun break immediately (if at all) it is ridiculous and not survivable. This combo is far easier to mitigate on my guardian than any other of my chars by a long shot. Even my bunker ele gets eaten by 100 blades if I’m not paying attention.

Bottom line, there are some thieves out there that either have some kind of macro running that can get attacks off in such precise ways or they are truely god-like players because normal mortals die before they can react. On the other hand, a warrior can win in two button pushes if they catch you, usually from behind ~and~ if they are built that way ~and~ they have all the health and armor that comes for free with that class. Both are pretty OP, but none are game breaking…yet.

Rangers and Engineers can completely melt people also given the right circumstances, gear and build. Heck, you can even build a guardian glass cannon and melt people 1v1.

My problem is becoming more and more warrior focused as I learn the thief and their tricks. To beat a thief, survive the burst. To beat a warrior….well, I like seeing the full signet warriors because they are usually a free meal otherwise I try to just avoid them. Oh, and yes, one of my 80’s is a warrior….everyone’s favorite; a glass cannon rifle/greatsword warrior. Woot. I feel somewhat OP on the warrior, but again, not game breaking. My warrior is dirt napping as often as face melting.

Bleeds.4029:

I have six 80’s, one of which is a thief that I am learning to dearly love (thanks Lofat for the p/p build!!). In the interests of keeping it real. My guardian with 3200 (and some change) armor has been backstabbed in excess of 8k. Maybe it’s rare and random, but it can happen. Combine that with 5-6k steal, and 6-7k CnD and things get out of hand quickly. Does it happen every time to my guardian? No. But it can happen. It makes armor feel utterly useless. Then again, all my 80’s have run into the bull rush/100 blades attack and without a stun break immediately (if at all) it is ridiculous and not survivable. This combo is far easier to mitigate on my guardian than any other of my chars by a long shot. Even my bunker ele gets eaten by 100 blades if I’m not paying attention.

Bottom line, there are some thieves out there that either have some kind of macro running that can get attacks off in such precise ways or they are truely god-like players because normal mortals die before they can react. On the other hand, a warrior can win in two button pushes if they catch you, usually from behind ~and~ if they are built that way ~and~ they have all the health and armor that comes for free with that class. Both are pretty OP, but none are game breaking…yet.

Rangers and Engineers can completely melt people also given the right circumstances, gear and build. Heck, you can even build a guardian glass cannon and melt people 1v1.

My problem is becoming more and more warrior focused as I learn the thief and their tricks. To beat a thief, survive the burst. To beat a warrior….well, I like seeing the full signet warriors because they are usually a free meal otherwise I try to just avoid them. Oh, and yes, one of my 80’s is a warrior….everyone’s favorite; a glass cannon rifle/greatsword warrior. Woot. I feel somewhat OP on the warrior, but again, not game breaking. My warrior is dirt napping as often as face melting.

Glad you’re enjoying the P/P build. It’s fun and powerful. Even more fun when you burst someone down with the pistols and then get up in their face with the S/D to finish them off.

I normally don’t have any issues fighting thieves on any of my toons. I can usually spot them before they have a chance to stealth, mug, cnd, backstab and leave me taking a dirt nap.

But if you’re expecting a thief to say “look over here, here I am” before you engage, it’s not likely to happen with a good thief. If I see a thief within 1500 yards and they stealth, guess what, they aren’t going to appear in front of me and ask me to dance… Chances are they are already planning and getting ready for the backstab.

Be aware of them, prepare, and assume he’s trying to position for a backstab. Remember, stealth only lasts 3-4 seconds. So dodge it, run from it, wait for him to show then stun/daze and destroy.

. Here is a vid with footage from early december. It shows a lucky killstreak that i had on my roaming thief. As you see, the damage is totally sick. At the start i kill like 3-4 guys on my own.

. But.. The conditions get the best of me. The AoE flying arround get the best of me. etc! If i had retreated better, i could have made it myself a bit easyer but i got lucky and rallied a few times! That said, it shows you that full crit thieves are squishie as hell.

WARNING: You will hate me for this video.

Note: No food, consumables and only 1 bloodlust stack. Also, i was and am still not using ascended gear on my thief. So yeah, it can be a lot worse! ;]

Also, underleveled enemies are my favourite victims =p j/k, i don’t play my thief that much in WvW anymore. It feels a bit too easy at times.

Lofat.2406:

Bleeds.4029:

I have six 80’s, one of which is a thief that I am learning to dearly love (thanks Lofat for the p/p build!!). In the interests of keeping it real. My guardian with 3200 (and some change) armor has been backstabbed in excess of 8k. Maybe it’s rare and random, but it can happen. Combine that with 5-6k steal, and 6-7k CnD and things get out of hand quickly. Does it happen every time to my guardian? No. But it can happen. It makes armor feel utterly useless. Then again, all my 80’s have run into the bull rush/100 blades attack and without a stun break immediately (if at all) it is ridiculous and not survivable. This combo is far easier to mitigate on my guardian than any other of my chars by a long shot. Even my bunker ele gets eaten by 100 blades if I’m not paying attention.

Bottom line, there are some thieves out there that either have some kind of macro running that can get attacks off in such precise ways or they are truely god-like players because normal mortals die before they can react. On the other hand, a warrior can win in two button pushes if they catch you, usually from behind ~and~ if they are built that way ~and~ they have all the health and armor that comes for free with that class. Both are pretty OP, but none are game breaking…yet.

Rangers and Engineers can completely melt people also given the right circumstances, gear and build. Heck, you can even build a guardian glass cannon and melt people 1v1.

My problem is becoming more and more warrior focused as I learn the thief and their tricks. To beat a thief, survive the burst. To beat a warrior….well, I like seeing the full signet warriors because they are usually a free meal otherwise I try to just avoid them. Oh, and yes, one of my 80’s is a warrior….everyone’s favorite; a glass cannon rifle/greatsword warrior. Woot. I feel somewhat OP on the warrior, but again, not game breaking. My warrior is dirt napping as often as face melting.

Glad you’re enjoying the P/P build. It’s fun and powerful. Even more fun when you burst someone down with the pistols and then get up in their face with the S/D to finish them off.

I normally don’t have any issues fighting thieves on any of my toons. I can usually spot them before they have a chance to stealth, mug, cnd, backstab and leave me taking a dirt nap.

But if you’re expecting a thief to say “look over here, here I am” before you engage, it’s not likely to happen with a good thief. If I see a thief within 1500 yards and they stealth, guess what, they aren’t going to appear in front of me and ask me to dance… Chances are they are already planning and getting ready for the backstab.

Be aware of them, prepare, and assume he’s trying to position for a backstab. Remember, stealth only lasts 3-4 seconds. So dodge it, run from it, wait for him to show then stun/daze and destroy.

Could you share with me this P/P S/D build? And is it for PVE or pvp? (assuming pvp). I enjoy my current build a ton, have done consecutive games with 11-13 kills 0 deaths 200+ capture points; problem is I don’t like hiding into one build for eternity.