Primi Agminis Legio [PAL]
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What is this new S/D build that every thief in WvW seems to be running? I keep encountering it and it has high survivability why still dishing out a good amount of damage.
I haven’t seen a S/D Thief in weeks.
The ones I did meet essentially took the sPvP evade-spam build into WvW, with moderate success. S/D is good in duels but it lacks the burst needed to secure kills and the stealth to avoid them.
10/0/30/0/30, 0/10/30/0/30, and 10/30/0/30/0 are all popular s/d builds. WvW teefs probably want shadow arts, so one of the first two is probably what you’re encountering. The acro heavy build has unreliable condition removal, so you’d need a reliable teammate to do that for you.
What Server and Side of the World are you playing on? I still see plenty of D/P and P/D thieves more often then not really. I use 10/10/0/20/30 at the moment myself.
(edited by CrimsonNeonite.1048)
I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.
I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.
I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.
I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.
Probably 0/10/30/0/30. Practiced tolerance, shadow’s embrace, blind on stealth, shadow rejuvenation, thrill of the crime, bountiful theft, sleight of hand. Mix of zerker, valk, and cav. The proportion of each depends on how confident you are in staying alive.
You have SA based x/30/30/x/x, acro based x/30/0/30/x and trickery ones x/x/x/x30 that are you usually mixtures of the previous. However, you got me curious since there might be an usually well working gimmick like 0/20/30/0/20 or god-knows what.
I really encourage OP to get some info concerning that ‘sos created’ spec.
@mango
He has mentioned quickness on crit so at least 20 points in CS^^
I don’t see a lot of S/D thieves in WvW either, although if I run S/D on my thief I usually do 0/30/0/30/10.
s/d users are more rare than they used to be. couple of well place nerfs made sure of that. it’s a fun weapon set considering it’s pretty skill intensive, but at the end of the day it falls short compared to certain other builds.
whenever I run s/d nowadays I use 10/0/0/30/30 or 0/30/0/25/15 (aka, the superior 0/30/0/30/10).
shadow arts on s/d has never been a good idea. just doesn’t work anywhere close to as well as acrobatics does with sword. want a shadow arts build? use d/p.
are you positive this “SoS duel spec” had 30 into shadow arts?
I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.
I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.
prob Amonatory’s 10/0/30/0/30 build? but without the quickness on crit, I mean it’s not as useful to S/D to as it would be to S/P
I don’t think all that many thieves run S/D, reaklly. It must be weeks since I last saw a S/D thief in WvW, myself excluded.
I don’t really see why anyone would suggest using SA with a S/D set. S/D is all about evades and laanding that Larcenous+Mug burst, so you should preferably pick acrobatics over SA, or even CS. You won’t really be stealthing a lot other thna stomping as a S/D thief. Tactical strike is usually a lackluster in terms of risk vs reward, and you would pick D/P or D/D for backstab over tactical strike in a stelth-based build anyways. Main source of condi cleans for S/D are lyssa runes, sword #2 and possibly pain response.
What I run: 10/30/0/0/30 and 10/0/0/30/30 (currently using this).
DA: Mug → nasty combined with LS and all the trickery traits. Game changing.
CS: Side strikes, Dual skill +/Signet mastery, Executioner
SA:
Acrobatics: Vigor on heal, pain response, assassin’s reward
Trickery: Thrill of the crime, Bountiful theft, Sleight of Hand (this traitline is a boss)
Pick either CS or acro.
Heal: withdraw (proc vigor often, get the #4 off lyssa, free evade out of immo)
Utilities: Shadowstep, Refuge, Signet of Agility
Elite: Bas venom (condi cleanse on-demand, boons)
Combine bers/valk for max effectiveness…
These builds are originally sPvp gimmick, but I’ve found them really effective in Wvw roaming as well.
TL;DR don’t think there are that many S/D thieves in Wvw
I am currently on HoD and I play mainly anywhere from 3-10PM EST. From what I can tell they have 30 points into SA and some points into CS in order to get the quickness on crit skill.
I asked a fellow thief on HoD and they said it was some new S/D dueling build that a thief on SoS created. I don’t know if it’s true but I haven’t seen a build like it and it is very effective in 1v1s.
Oh, might be me aha.
s/d users are more rare than they used to be. couple of well place nerfs made sure of that.
Actually, I believe it was only the infiltrator’s strike nerfs. People mainly used it because they could instantly blink half a map away and no one could do anything about it.
What is this new S/D build that every thief in WvW seems to be running? I keep encountering it and it has high survivability why still dishing out a good amount of damage.
I made a new video of the build you are talking about, along with my old one. Feel free to watch.
s/d users are more rare than they used to be. couple of well place nerfs made sure of that.
Actually, I believe it was only the infiltrator’s strike nerfs. People mainly used it because they could instantly blink half a map away and no one could do anything about it.
it was a reliable safety mechanic, the nerf to it was a bit overkill in context of wvw and the hardest of the two but let’s not forget that larcenous strike’s boon theft was cut in half too.
From my experience, there were a lot more S/D thieves in T2 NA than in lower tiers. Especially SoS, before I left (during free transfers) had many S/D thieves.
Lately I noticed a lot more sword thieves in wvw (EU lower tier) but majority of them are S/P.
With 30 in SA, why not? Tons of utility and some people prefer stealthy playstyle. With zerker gear, the dps is okayish.
10/0/10/20/30 is honestly my fav SD build, has nice condi clear too due to 10 in SA while offering nice evades and ini regen
From my experience, there were a lot more S/D thieves in T2 NA than in lower tiers. Especially SoS, before I left (during free transfers) had many S/D thieves.
Lately I noticed a lot more sword thieves in wvw (EU lower tier) but majority of them are S/P.
With 30 in SA, why not? Tons of utility and some people prefer stealthy playstyle. With zerker gear, the dps is okayish.
Honestly, I’ve used this build for a long time now. I’m starting to see a lot of people I’ve dueled starting to use my build, along with people who saw my video and seen me duel. It’s not really an “SoS duel spec” it’s just a build I used awhile back and it’s now becoming meta especially on my own server.
I saw/fought one Charr S/D Thief this weekend in WvW, while roaming in a two-man. He was pretty good, didn’t use stealth. Lost to him once in a 2v3 fighting in an unfriendly camp (but stomped his two buddies first), beat him later in a 2v1 when he tried to mess with our Briar catapult (because 2v1).
They are sort of rare. Probably will see more of them post-patch though.
I saw/fought one Charr S/D Thief this weekend in WvW, while roaming in a two-man. He was pretty good, didn’t use stealth. Lost to him once in a 2v3 fighting in an unfriendly camp (but stomped his two buddies first), beat him later in a 2v1 when he tried to mess with our Briar catapult (because 2v1).
They are sort of rare. Probably will see more of them post-patch though.
I think you’ll see them less. Lyssa runes are what most s/d thieves use and since that’s getting nerfed most won’t have a viable condi cleanse with s/d, just my thought who knows.
Lyssa will still be good as a condi cleanse post-patch. What you will lose, is the boon bomb. That matters obviously, but it’s not like you’re suddenly more vulnerable to a Necro.
What I think will be nice for S/D Thieves are the Sigil changes. With independent ICDs, a 30 Acrobatics build with Quick Pockets suddenly looks better than it does now.
Aha, we’ll see man. I hope we can end this d/p perma stealth and p/d condi meta. But seeing as condi is getting buffed, prepare to be bent over.
s/d users are more rare than they used to be. couple of well place nerfs made sure of that.
Actually, I believe it was only the infiltrator’s strike nerfs. People mainly used it because they could instantly blink half a map away and no one could do anything about it.
it was a reliable safety mechanic, the nerf to it was a bit overkill in context of wvw and the hardest of the two but let’s not forget that larcenous strike’s boon theft was cut in half too.
Don’t forget they kept the increased initiative cost. S/d has received numerous nerfs with none of them being remotely reverted. The build is more of a gimmick now, just to mess with people’s minds but not that effective at sniping someone.
Aha, we’ll see man. I hope we can end this d/p perma stealth and p/d condi meta. But seeing as condi is getting buffed, prepare to be bent over.
Just remove Shadow’s Rejuvenation and all will be well.
I thought I was the only S/D in WvW.
Aha, we’ll see man. I hope we can end this d/p perma stealth and p/d condi meta. But seeing as condi is getting buffed, prepare to be bent over.
Just remove Shadow’s Rejuvenation and all will be well.
You going to keep crying about that? Jesus, just get over it and stick to spvp.
This next patch is going to really hurt the 30 SA/TRICK builds people have been running.
There has been a few people around who’ve known what the REAL OP thief builds are. This isn’t a new build by any means
With the crit damage nerf, I’m seriously considering moving to a sword build over a dagger build for WvW.
Course, now that I have the WvW meta done, I’m not sure I’ll bother stepping back into WvW. While the open PvP can be fun at times, overall, it feels like a pointless zergfest that I prefer to avoid. =P
Don’t forget they kept the increased initiative cost. S/d has received numerous nerfs with none of them being remotely reverted. The build is more of a gimmick now, just to mess with people’s minds but not that effective at sniping someone.
funny thing is people complained about the evasion, and so they nerfed mobility and boon ripping instead.
s/d really never could “snipe” anyone though, it was always much more constant pressure oriented than it was focused on spike damage, which is what made it fun and enjoyable to play as a refreshing change of pace. it’s still fun, but just less fun because you’re gonna die that much more :/
Well with constant evasion and stealing boons especially like an ele guard or engi, you basically hit like a truck (stole all might stacks, unlike BT), while evading over and over. I was fine with the increased initiative cost, but then they nerfed the pressure LS had and kept the increased cost. It could hit pretty hard but was never meant to snipe I agree. With the pressure gone and the cost up and IR nerf you can’t wiggle people down as effective as before.
Well with constant evasion and stealing boons especially like an ele guard or engi, you basically hit like a truck (stole all might stacks, unlike BT), while evading over and over. I was fine with the increased initiative cost, but then they nerfed the pressure LS had and kept the increased cost. It could hit pretty hard but was never meant to snipe I agree. With the pressure gone and the cost up and IR nerf you can’t wiggle people down as effective as before.
Ricky Reality™ here: S/D benefitted from the upgrade to init regen, since it was never able to really maximize the pre-December Opportunist in the first place. Larc does not cleave, and you don’t have a big multi-hit skill like Pistol Whip to lean on.
tl;dr the init change partially compensated for the costs that never got rolled back.
I’m also on HoD, been solo roaming few hours every night for the past weeks and have seen maybe 3 of those, and none in a 1 on 1 situation (they always had a group). Can’t say I corroborate OP’s claim.
Wish I saw more S/D in WvW. Free kills. S/D is hard to master and 89% of the thief class players are bad to begin with.
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