Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:

I’m playing my warrior now at level 80 and the damage my warrior does laughs at thief damage seriously.

Playing the 2 classes with highest possible damage. The warrior gets away with glass cannon way more than a thief it has traits so you can do that.

I have 2.6k armor on my warrior, 2.1k power, 56% crit chance, 65% at level 3 adrenaline, and 97% crit damage. With 20.7k hip rofl that blows my thief out the water.

The one thing the thief has over warrior is just the fact that you dictate if the fight is going to happen or not and can disengage easier than any other class.

With that said my warriors mobility is fine with 30 secs of swiftness every 48 seconds so only 18 secs that I don’t have swiftness. I have no mobility issues and I don’t run war horn.

These arguments of dodges etc and that you can see attacks are silly. Of course you can’t see everything a person that is invisible but unless you are running some super dodge build you have no way to dodge everything.

I can 7k-9k eviscerate every 10 secs. 100bs every 8, whirlwind every 12, a bola pretty much will let you hit a full 100bs without frenzy provided they have no stun breakers.

The only high damage skill I have found that is hard to land is 100bs without frenzy. A shield, bash, bull rush, hydro many sigil easily help with that problem.

A person who is thinking is going to make you blow CDs no matter the class I do it on my thief and I do it on my warrior now. So what am I saying ? Thief is fine and I love warrior too!!

Hundudburrds is the best stomp in the game too. If you only use it to stomp people it’s still an awesome skill. Changes downed state from an annoyance (thief perspective) to a good thing, same with shatter mesmers. <3 downed state there.. hate it on Thief.

vespers.1759:

picture? no? then i don’t care.

fact is thieves can run glass canon and have more survivability than any other class along with the most damage. other classes get actively punished for running glass canon because they can’t go invis and run away to compensate for high dps. if a glass of any other class gets caught unawares they die. if a thief is surprised he stealths and skips away.

thieves could take a 50% dmg reduction and they’d still be amazing. if a thief doesn’t win in a 1v1 right now they must be really bad.

also play a glass canon ranger. it’s a glass canon thief without the canon or the defense from invis.

First of all, his word isn’t any better than your picture is. We don’t know your gear, your traits, your weapons, or even your class for that matter, so neither proves anything.

Secondly, thief does not have more survivability than other classes. Stealth makes it easier to run away from a fight, but not necessarily easier to win one. While stealth is a very strong asset for thieves, their only stun breakers are roll for initiative, which has a very long recharge, and shadow step, which also has a long recharge in addition to being a rather situational skill. This can make them VERY vulnerable to stun locks. They also lack good condition removal which means they can be countered with immobilization skills and condition pressure.

The back stab can easily be avoided with the right skills and it’s completely obvious that it’s coming when they stealth. Throwing up an aegis, keeping the thief at a distance, snaring, using evasion skills, blinding, etcetera, etcetera… all good ways to prevent getting back stabbed. Thieves can quickly burn through their initiative and damage potential if you can dodge the deadliest attacks. They can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time during the beginning of a fight, but they’re not as good if it turns into a prolonged bout.

This thread is an embarrassment to thieves in general and the thieves you’re playing against specifically. I can’t believe no one has hit you harder than that. It’s just difficult to comprehend…

oZii.2864:

I’m playing my warrior now at level 80 and the damage my warrior does laughs at thief damage seriously.

Yep, Warrior damage is great. You can also see it all coming. Even if you point blank Bull’s Charge or Shield Bash me, I have that 1 second in between that and Hundred Blades or Eviscerate to hit my ability to counter it (Phase Retreat, Blink, Shatter Distortion, etc.)

oZii.2864:

Playing the 2 classes with highest possible damage. The warrior gets away with glass cannon way more than a thief it has traits so you can do that.

This is debatable depending on your definition of “gets away with”. Without endure pain, a glass cannon warrior has to eat damage they only have 7% more mitigation than the thief and a large health pool. That large health pool is emptied very quickly. The thief simply stops taking damage (usually) when stealthed unless they are dumb enough to stick around in AOEs or melee range of someone blindly swinging at them. It’s apples to oranges. If you get 20k on a Thief, it is much more meaningful than 20k on a warrior. This is why Thief starts with a much lower base health.

oZii.2864:

I have 2.6k armor on my warrior, 2.1k power, 56% crit chance, 65% at level 3 adrenaline, and 97% crit damage. With 20.7k hip rofl that blows my thief out the water.

Yep, they play quite differently. See above.

Try out Hammer with +50% crit chance to stunned/KD’d foes, 30% base crit chance, and fury. 100% crit chance on stunned/KD’d foes. With hammer trait and sigil of impact you’ll do +35% damage to them too :-)

oZii.2864:

The one thing the thief has over warrior is just the fact that you dictate if the fight is going to happen or not and can disengage easier than any other class.

If that was it, then you would hear people gripe more about warrior than thief. As someone who used to be a Mesmer, you should remember how easy Warriors are to kite, even with all their mobility.

oZii.2864:

With that said my warriors mobility is fine with 30 secs of swiftness every 48 seconds so only 18 secs that I don’t have swiftness. I have no mobility issues and I don’t run war horn.

Take 60% Boon duration (runes, food, pts in Tactics … your choice) and you have 100% up-time since you’re obviously taking reduced Signet Duration (otherwise it’s a 60 sec cooldown). If you did take warhorn with that, you’d have more condition removal (if 20 in tactics and trait it) and 100% up-time on vigor too.

oZii.2864:

These arguments of dodges etc and that you can see attacks are silly. Of course you can’t see everything a person that is invisible but unless you are running some super dodge build you have no way to dodge everything.

You’re correct. You can’t dodge everything. However, anyone with half a brain knows the big hits from a warrior. You dodge those and mitigate the others the best you can. Kiting is great for this but sometimes you have to be a big boy and take some damage while you deal it out.

oZii.2864:

I can 7k-9k eviscerate every 10 secs. 100bs every 8, whirlwind every 12, a bola pretty much will let you hit a full 100bs without frenzy provided they have no stun breakers.

Endurance regenerates at 5% per second. You need 50% per dodge. Without any endurance regen traits, vigor, etc. that’s one dodge per 10 seconds (1 per 5 seconds w/ Vigor). Hundred blades isn’t going to hurt you unless your are CC’d or too dumb to move.

Whirlwind is respectable damage, but it’s nothing gamebreaking and it has a cooldown.

Bola is an immobilize so a stunbreaker is pretty useless against it. Condition removal is what you need here. This is why I recommend it to any warrior that fights cookie cutter Mesmers … most don’t have condition removal.

oZii.2864:

The only high damage skill I have found that is hard to land is 100bs without frenzy. A shield, bash, bull rush, hydro many sigil easily help with that problem.

Yep, Hundred Blades requires the target to be CC’d to hit them with it. Even then, they can use a condition removal, teleport, interrupt, stunbreaker, etc. to counter it. You don’t instantly do the damage either. In fact, it’s backloaded with the biggest hit being at the end.

Hundred Blades also has a cooldown as do the various CCs you need in order to land it.

oZii.2864:

A person who is thinking is going to make you blow CDs no matter the class I do it on my thief and I do it on my warrior now. So what am I saying ? Thief is fine and I love warrior too!!

Yep! Mesmers do it too. Count those dodge rolls, force that condition removal, swap, shatter. Dead non-tank.

I think the only class that doesn’t work that way is Ranger. Instead they seem to have to just maintain constant damage while avoiding everyone else’s damage. They have some burst, but nothing like the rest of us without being a crappy glass cannon Ranger.

vespers.1759:

picture? no? then i don’t care.

fact is thieves can run glass canon and have more survivability than any other class along with the most damage.

No. Thieves do not have the most damage. I’d give that honor to warriors. I’ve always said that an immobilized/stunned/knocked down target with a warrior on it is a dead target.

ninja.4139:

Secondly, thief does not have more survivability than other classes. Stealth makes it easier to run away from a fight, but not necessarily easier to win one.

This is largely dependent on the classes and weapons involved. Protection works the same against everything. Stealth works extremely well against some. It’s horrible against spammable large AOE. There’s a many reasons smart Thieves hate necro staff.

ninja.4139:

While stealth is a very strong asset for thieves, their only stun breakers are roll for initiative, which has a very long recharge, and shadow step, which also has a long recharge in addition to being a rather situational skill.

Not true and you’re downplaying how awesome these two utilities are.

First, Roll for initiative is not only a stunbreaker but is also an evade, removes some conditions, and gives 6 initiative.

Second, Shadowstep is a 1,200 range teleport without traits … only other class with a 1,200 range teleport is Mesmer and they have to trait for blink to be that range.

Third, Shadowstep has a second activation that also removes conditions and teleports you back to where you were. it’s like an on-demand personal portal that can be used once but it doesn’t require any setup, is a stunbreaker, and removes conditions.

Fourth, you have other stunbreakers as a thief. The entire list is for Thieves is:

• Shadow Return (Infiltrator’s Strike 2nd activation) [Weapon Skill – Sword] (this removes a condition too!) [only weapon skill in the game that is a stunbreaker]
• Haste (Utility)
• Infiltrator’s Signet (Utility)
• Roll for Initiative (Utility)
• Shadowstep (Utility)
• Shadow Return (Shadowstep 2nd activation) [Utility] (this removes a condition too!)

ninja.4139:

This can make them VERY vulnerable to stun locks. They also lack good condition removal which means they can be countered with immobilization skills and condition pressure.

Really? See above please ;-)

Let’s look at condition removal:

• Shadow Return (Infiltrator’s Strike 2nd activation) [Weapon Skill – Sword] (this is a stunbreaker too!) [only weapon skill in the game that is a stunbreaker]
• Hide in Plain Sight (Heal Ability) [only Bleeding, Burning, Poison]
• Withdraw (Heal Ability) [only Chilled, Crippled, and Immobilized]
• Roll for Initiative (Utility) [only Chilled, Crippled, and Immobilized]
• Shadow Return (Shadowstep 2nd activation) [Utility] (this is a stunbreaker too!)
• Signet of Agility (Utility) [cures allies too]
• Shadow’s Embrace (Trait)

ninja.4139:

The back stab can easily be avoided with the right skills and it’s completely obvious that it’s coming when they stealth.

Please see the example of a good Thief that I posted previously.

ninja.4139:

Throwing up an aegis

Most don’t have access to Aegis

ninja.4139:

, keeping the thief at a distance

Thief is faster than many classes with their signet which is commonly taken. Some Thieves also take +movespeed when stealthed.

ninja.4139:

, snaring,

While they are stealthed? :-p
Scroll up for “removes conditions while stealthed”.

ninja.4139:

using evasion skills,

Blow all your evasion skills for 4 seconds? Again, please read my post on the good thief.

ninja.4139:

blinding,

Thief attacks nothing while stealthed, doesn’t unstealth but removes blind … plus how’d you blind them while they were stealthed? AOE blinds for everyone! :-)

ninja.4139:

all good ways to prevent getting back stabbed.

Uh huh… scroll up please.

ninja.4139:

Thieves can quickly burn through their initiative and damage potential if you can dodge the deadliest attacks.

This is no different from any class burning through their cooldowns.

ninja.4139:

They can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time during the beginning of a fight, but they’re not as good if it turns into a prolonged bout.

This is a fallacy except for the signet/haste dependent noob thieves.
This isn’t to say they are going to stand toe to toe with you exchanging blows … they don’t have to. They can exchange high damage hits for what little they let you slide through.

vespers.1759:

Teamkiller.4315:

If it makes you feel better, I can regale you with recent tales of my victories over thieves.

Two days ago, killed two thieves 2v1. Both level 80, not upleveled. WvW
About 30 minutes ago, go jumped on by a thief while I was at 30% health. Hey guess what, i won without even healing. Also lv 80 not upleveled in WvW.

I can give you all the anecdotes you want. They don’t constitute evidence any more than your anecdotes of you being killed evidences thieves being OP.

For the record I play guardian, and yes, there are plenty of thieves that outplay me. In my experience, people like you think thieves are OP and try to play one not realizing that everyone can kill uplevels really really easily. You guys become the type of people that I destroy above ^. Yes, I’ve been totally destroyed by every kind of thief build at least once, they are good players, I don’t cry OP. I’ve also destroyed every thief build at least once as well. They don’t go on the guardian forums crying about guardians being OP.

Sorry, I was extremely proud that I beat that thief at 30% hp and I needed to chest thump (altho he probably let his guard down thinking I’d be an easy kill at that point)

picture? no? then i don’t care.

fact is thieves can run glass canon and have more survivability than any other class along with the most damage. other classes get actively punished for running glass canon because they can’t go invis and run away to compensate for high dps. if a glass of any other class gets caught unawares they die. if a thief is surprised he stealths and skips away.

thieves could take a 50% dmg reduction and they’d still be amazing. if a thief doesn’t win in a 1v1 right now they must be really bad.

also play a glass canon ranger. it’s a glass canon thief without the canon or the defense from invis.

For some reason my response got deleted yesterday.

OK, I’ll summarize. No, no picture. However, you missed the point. It doesn’t matter if I made all that up, and it was fabricated. The point is that it was an anecdote and using stories to generalize is very bad. Here, wikipedia agrees with me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence

Ranger is probably the WORST class to go glass cannon vs a thief if you do not have traps, and traps do condition damage mostly, so you were better off going bunker/condition damage anyways. You picked the class that thieves counter the best when they do not use traps and you built a glass cannon at that, and you are…complaining? WHY?

You played the build that thieves counter, you should try the bunker trap build, that hard counters thieves. Counter? Meet counter, the game seems fine to me.

Also, let me give you a little insight to the classes in tier 3 of HP.

Guardian. 10.8k base HP. How does he survive? Combination of heavy armor, amazing healing, and continual use of defensive boons, especially protection, and area control.

Elementalist. 10.8k base HP. How does he survive? Combination of amazing healing, extreme mobility, and the ability to pump out a ton of boons as well.

Thief. 10.8k base HP. How does he survive? Stealth and high mobility.

Is it overpowered? Why don’t you put your words to the test and run into a group of 20 players with a GC thief. Do it 100 times for an accurate sample size and tell me how many times you run out alive.

Then run into a single smart necro with that boon-ladened elementalist/guardian and watch yourself die :-p

There are some hard-counters in the game. People need to realize what they are and tweak their build to not be hard-countered if they want to avoid that. Otherwise, they need to accept that they will be stomped a majority of the time by that hard-counter.

It’s like a condition heavy build with no condition removal facing a necro with 1+ ways to transfer conditions. You’re likely to kill yourself with your own conditions. Hard countered unless you can cleanse yourself to counter those transfers and still stay ahead on damage/healing.

oZii went from Thief to War. I went from Thief to Mesmer. Both of us have no problems killing thieves on our new prof. If he’s the same as me he probably actually guns for them.

I personally don’t have the time or will to level and fully gear another char for WvW especially now with more Ascended junk coming out but I’m sure we would have the same experiences with almost any prof. I think the point is, Thieves are balanced if you understand them. They are OP when you know jack. They are also OP if you consider not killing them a loss when they run from you. A very good thief needs to be baited to over-commit in order to get stomped. Luckily though there are 9 free kill thieves for every 1 good one, probably all the QQers re-rolling and realizing they still suck.

Oh, I agree with you Stiv … but that 1 out of 10 good thieves doesn’t just run away … they keep resetting and coming back for more. They welcome the challenge and know what to do. I respect that mentality and their skill, but I also am rather aggravated that they can do that only because of their class. The other 7 of the 8 classes wouldn’t allow that.

I’m also aggravated that there are noobs killing other noobs solidly only because they decided to be a Thief. Doesn’t affect me directly, but I don’t like it nonetheless.

Gearing characters with ascended isn’t difficult. Do the daily fractals, 10, 20, whatever you are able to do. You can do 10, 20, 30, etc. on the same char and you can do multiple of each on diff chars per day. The more 80s you have the easier it is to gear as you have multiples that can get the pristine coins as well as have a chance at the daily ring loot. Additionally, you can run through Cursed Shore on 1 lvl80, see where all the goodies are as you pick them up, then repeat very quickly on other 80s. I don’t have enough free-time to do all of the above every day, but I pick one and do what I can with the time permitted that day. This works for getting exotic weapons/gear as well since you can do each path multiple times, just once per character, to get the full 60 tokens from each run. I got a full set of HotW Light Armor, Staff, Greatsword, Scepter, 2 Swords, Focus, and Pistol with Rabid stats in no time doing this.

Your reasoning as to why you and oZii are able to kill thieves is largely one of the reasons why I am leveling up one of each class. I also enjoying the change in gameplay.

vespers.1759:

the stealth is ridiculous, but add in the damage and it’s just a total joke.

the fact that any class can dish 7k dmg by pushing 1 button ( which can be pushed multiple times) just shows what a joke pvp in this game is.

And yet my Ranger, at level 70 was hitting with Barrage on his LB for an average of around 12k due to crits…. not to mention pet dmg and of course conditions.

Honestly a lot of classes can run away pretty easily. Eles can ride the lightning and/or mistform away, probably the best at escaping. Rangers can use evasive shot or sword 2 and lay down traps, crippling chasers. Warrior? Activate your almost perma swiftness and then greatsword 5 and 3, shield 4 or bull rush if needed. Guardian? Perma swiftness and staff 5 behind you. Use JI on bunnies or otherwise NPC mobs in front of you.

ALL classes have good escape utilities, it’s just that thief does it best. Coincidentally they also have the highest single target burst, and that’s what aggravates a lot of players. To be honest, they wouldn’t have this kind of utility in the open field, and wvw is about capping points and objectives. Suffice to say if you were to have this kind of fight against a thief inside a tower they wouldn’t be able to escape so easily.

Teamkiller.4315:

Honestly a lot of classes can run away pretty easily. Eles can ride the lightning and/or mistform away, probably the best at escaping. Rangers can use evasive shot or sword 2 and lay down traps, crippling chasers. Warrior? Activate your almost perma swiftness and then greatsword 5 and 3, shield 4 or bull rush if needed. Guardian? Perma swiftness and staff 5 behind you. Use JI on bunnies or otherwise NPC mobs in front of you.

ALL classes have good escape utilities, it’s just that thief does it best. Coincidentally they also have the highest single target burst, and that’s what aggravates a lot of players. To be honest, they wouldn’t have this kind of utility in the open field, and wvw is about capping points and objectives. Suffice to say if you were to have this kind of fight against a thief inside a tower they wouldn’t be able to escape so easily.

Well said. Only thing I’d change is:

“If you were to fight against a thief inside a tower, they wouldn’t be able to escape to reset the fight so easily”.

Escaping isn’t really hindered that much by being in the tower unless you’ve somehow blocked them from the only stairs up to the wall. However, it does prevent the Thief from escaping, reseting, and coming back for another go … at least till you leave the tower :-p

Sebrent.3625:

Then run into a single smart necro with that boon-ladened elementalist/guardian and watch yourself die :-p

There are some hard-counters in the game. People need to realize what they are and tweak their build to not be hard-countered if they want to avoid that. Otherwise, they need to accept that they will be stomped a majority of the time by that hard-counter.

It’s like a condition heavy build with no condition removal facing a necro with 1+ ways to transfer conditions. You’re likely to kill yourself with your own conditions. Hard countered unless you can cleanse yourself to counter those transfers and still stay ahead on damage/healing.

I think I ran into something like that last night. I don’t know what they all were. What I do know is there was 3 of them and I was immobilized the whole time stuck in a pile of AoEs and necro wells.

Dual.8953:

Sebrent.3625:

Then run into a single smart necro with that boon-ladened elementalist/guardian and watch yourself die :-p

There are some hard-counters in the game. People need to realize what they are and tweak their build to not be hard-countered if they want to avoid that. Otherwise, they need to accept that they will be stomped a majority of the time by that hard-counter.

It’s like a condition heavy build with no condition removal facing a necro with 1+ ways to transfer conditions. You’re likely to kill yourself with your own conditions. Hard countered unless you can cleanse yourself to counter those transfers and still stay ahead on damage/healing.

I think I ran into something like that last night. I don’t know what they all were. What I do know is there was 3 of them and I was immobilized the whole time stuck in a pile of AoEs and necro wells.

Lmao! Were you fighting Ehmry Bay? If so, I’m sure I know the necros that did that to you :-) (no, I wasn’t one of them).

I was actually talking about Corrupt Boon though. One of our regulars in the guild plays a necro and just cackles all evening on TS as he melts Elementalists and Guardians with it. He also enjoys making bad Thieves kill themselves on his retaliation and wells.

Sebrent.3625:

Teamkiller.4315:

Honestly a lot of classes can run away pretty easily. Eles can ride the lightning and/or mistform away, probably the best at escaping. Rangers can use evasive shot or sword 2 and lay down traps, crippling chasers. Warrior? Activate your almost perma swiftness and then greatsword 5 and 3, shield 4 or bull rush if needed. Guardian? Perma swiftness and staff 5 behind you. Use JI on bunnies or otherwise NPC mobs in front of you.

ALL classes have good escape utilities, it’s just that thief does it best. Coincidentally they also have the highest single target burst, and that’s what aggravates a lot of players. To be honest, they wouldn’t have this kind of utility in the open field, and wvw is about capping points and objectives. Suffice to say if you were to have this kind of fight against a thief inside a tower they wouldn’t be able to escape so easily.

Well said. Only thing I’d change is:

“If you were to fight against a thief inside a tower, they wouldn’t be able to escape to reset the fight so easily”.

Escaping isn’t really hindered that much by being in the tower unless you’ve somehow blocked them from the only stairs up to the wall. However, it does prevent the Thief from escaping, reseting, and coming back for another go … at least till you leave the tower :-p

Nah, I stand by it. The thing is, if you were fighting in the open field, if the thief wanted to run he could stealth and pick any direction to shadowstep in, and take off running. Inside a tower tho, if you’re fighting on the bottom floor he has to get up the stairs (unless it’s his own tower, then still he’s restricted to either 1 of 4 directions or the stairs).

And yea lol to the second part. If he wanted to come for another go, he’d have to stay inside the tower, and that’s pretty risky

This is sort of why I wish they would change up the Thief a bit. Make them a bit less reliant on stealth but give them something to compensate for having less stealthiness. I think It’d make them more useful in a variety of fights instead of having them being an alpha skirmish/duel class while being mediocre in large fights … though I’ve seen some really great use of caltrops, shortbows, etc. in large fights … maybe a l2p since Thieves have so much more incentive to duel/skirmish that they aren’t doing the large battles nearly as much as others.

I also think it might better enable non-sword thieves to take on Tanks (without exploiting culling). Right now, someone with plenty of protection/regen/etc. needs those boons stripped if you want to reliably kill them … that largely falls to Thief Sword.+Dagger

abilities that hit for a little over 1k on my thief hit you for 3k.
The heartseeker didn’t come until the very end, there is only 1 of them, and so I think its safe to assume it was used on you below 20% hp (which means that 7k is probably 4k+ overkill).

So your problem is then with the existence of an execute?

Just lower their damage and health, and for the healing skill, lower the regeneration time they get. Stealth is a major part of a thief, it wouldn’t make sense to have nerfed stealth on them, I think it woul just be easier to lower their damage.

I wouldn’t lower Thief damage nor their health. They have enough trouble with tanks with retaliation if they aren’t a sword+dagger thief. It’s a hard counter.

Sebrent.3625:

This is sort of why I wish they would change up the Thief a bit. Make them a bit less reliant on stealth but give them something to compensate for having less stealthiness. I think It’d make them more useful in a variety of fights instead of having them being an alpha skirmish/duel class while being mediocre in large fights … though I’ve seen some really great use of caltrops, shortbows, etc. in large fights … maybe a l2p since Thieves have so much more incentive to duel/skirmish that they aren’t doing the large battles nearly as much as others.

I also think it might better enable non-sword thieves to take on Tanks (without exploiting culling). Right now, someone with plenty of protection/regen/etc. needs those boons stripped if you want to reliably kill them … that largely falls to Thief Sword.+Dagger

I’m proud to say I do participate in large fights, my own way. There will always be those players who are just a wee bit too far from the group.

Easy invisibility sucks! 3 secs is just sucksville!

See turtle defense that adds +200 toughness when you are crippled chilled stunned or immobilze. There is no cooldown on that its during the duration of those conditions.

Movement skills break immobilize.

These 2 traits right here pretty much make sure you can’t lock a warrior down easy.

I am running Avliss Balanced build I only have 3 pieces of PvT gear and I have more armor than my thief with 5 pieces of pvt gear

0/20/30/0/20 GS/Axe shield.

Your argument about your stun breaks is on your mesmer which has the most stun breaks in the game more than any other class. While a warrior might be easy to kite there is nothing you can do to stop him from running away either.

Like stiv said I do the same as him and chase thieves to kill. Its so easy and predictable because most assume you don’t know how to play. I assume that when I am on my thief and I assume it still against other Thieves when I am on my warrior.

1 of the weaknesses I will say of warriors is the condi removal doesnt match thieves.

Its so easy I can’t even lie to be honest. I know every off hand thief wants to clock and dagger so I will use up my block from shield at the very beginning of the fight so they waste a Clock and dagger and they see me blocking and they still try rofl. This just lets you know how many people don’t know about other classes which is just ignorance and not OP. People will only learn about other classes until they are forced to i.e. dying to it to much or rolling a alt.

My Warrior has only been 80 for 3 days and I havent found a thief yet I thought was a problem.

I chased a D/P thief with sb the other day. Caught up to her NP thats what people don’t seem to get that some of us have been preaching is that in order for a thief to get away they blow ini.

When I saw the D/P thief with sb we engaged a bit and when she felt some of that cold steel of the great sword she got out of dodge. Perfect time to test warrior mobility. The only time I couldnt close was when my swiftness wasnt up. Other than that with abilities i run anyway I caught up to her. I knew after 2 infil arrows she was pretty much out of ini. Bull charge time blow a roll. Wirlwind blow a roll. Swap to axe shield, hyrdomancy sigil activated eat this eviserate. Shadow refuge? —>> Fear me!! Good bye game over. Its so easy really I cant lie. Baslisks venom just gives me +200 toughness ok Ill take that. My hydromancy sigil gives me a 3 sec chill and free 2.5k attack everyy 9 secs.

I don’t know I still think I am not very good with my warrior but thieves are easy to kill for me. Mesmers give me a little bit more trouble now just because of confusion and D/D eles though I watch a warrior with a bow and gs wreck a d/d ele in duel. Just normal roaming I can easily make ele’s RTL away its not really hard.

If a thief runs away from me then it is just a matter of perspective on who won that engagement. To me I won to them they might think they won. There was no judge, or jury for that fight so its just perspective. I know thieves are the best at getting away so it is what it is you just have to accept that unless its a duel then it doesn’t matter does it? If it is a dual then its just for kitten.

vespers.1759:

the stealth is ridiculous, but add in the damage and it’s just a total joke.

the fact that any class can dish 7k dmg by pushing 1 button ( which can be pushed multiple times) just shows what a joke pvp in this game is.

You again! When will you finish complaining about thief and start using non zerker gear?

Frenk.5917:

vespers.1759:

the stealth is ridiculous, but add in the damage and it’s just a total joke.

the fact that any class can dish 7k dmg by pushing 1 button ( which can be pushed multiple times) just shows what a joke pvp in this game is.

You again! When will you finish complaining about thief and start using non zerker gear?

when there’s some attempt to balance classes!

is it fair that i have half the dps of a thief with the same gear and also lack any ability to defend myself?

somebody show me a video of a GC (or even a full tank) ranger taking okittenerg or putting out 7k+ dmg in one hit.

sure i could aoe an invis thief… but with what? barrage? that’ll totally work!… or maybe it’ll just set me up for a nice 8.5k backstab. other than traps, which i don’t use because i’m not a trap build, i have 0 aoe that can be used to hit an invis thief and i’m not alone.

why should one class be heavily rewarded for running with no defense when others are totally punished and have terrible DPS to boot?

all i’m trying to do here is make the devs stand up and acknowledge that they have a completely broken class here that is miles and miles above everything but mesmers and d/d eles.

Ruggan.4102:

vespers.1759:

the stealth is ridiculous, but add in the damage and it’s just a total joke.

the fact that any class can dish 7k dmg by pushing 1 button ( which can be pushed multiple times) just shows what a joke pvp in this game is.

And yet my Ranger, at level 70 was hitting with Barrage on his LB for an average of around 12k due to crits…. not to mention pet dmg and of course conditions.

i can tell you’ve never played a ranger. barrage crits for about 1k in zerk exotics at level 80.

if by some miracle the person is too stupid to move 2 feet in any direction, it will still not hit him 12 times.

0/10 wow really bad.

the fact that you think ranger has no ability to defend themselves makes your “experience” as a ranger laughable.

Not to mention your desire to have the exact same damage as a thief without ANY of the penalties they have.

Dasorine.1964:

the fact that you think ranger has no ability to defend themselves makes your “experience” as a ranger laughable.

Not to mention your desire to have the exact same damage as a thief without ANY of the penalties they have.

what penalties?

The lower health amounts coupled with the need to be in melee, the single target nature of those builds, the loss of other forms of defenses to utilize these, the fact that the main defense many of them need isn’t actually a defense against competent players (read: not you)

There are lots of things that a thief is limited from that a ranger isn’t, but thats because THEY ARE DIFFERENT PROFESSIONS, they are designed to do different things.

You do not roll a ranger and expect to tank like a guardian so why do you think you can roll a ranger and expect to damage like a thief?

The lower health amounts —> a glass ranger has about 14k hp. is that extra 2k hp going to save you when thieves can do 15k in 2 hits as evidenced by the SS above?

the single target nature of those builds —> a 1v1 is a 1v1. ikittenerg they just run around 2 shotting and stealth stomping. such a downside!

the loss of other forms of defenses to utilize these —> you have invis every few seconds. that’s the best defense in the game. i’d love to see other classes run around 15 people all day.

the fact that the main defense many of them need isn’t actually a defense against competent players (read: not you). —> how is it an issue of competence when a class lacks any skill to counter it and has 30% of their dps coming from an AI that is braindead?

You do not roll a ranger and expect to tank like a guardian so why do you think you can roll a ranger and expect to damage like a thief? —> dumb because a guard does no dmg in a full tank build (400h on guard so don’t tell me i’m wrong) while a thief has more defense than a guard ever could by virtue of being invisible every few seconds and still having insane dps vs the tank.

a class should not have the best burst in the game and the best defense. sure a warrior can do a big killshot… but it takes a long kitten time to cast and they are totally out in the open while doing it. nothing can stop a 5k steal + 8k backstab + 7k heartseeker from stealth except a lucky dodge (and dodges don’t stop heartseeker spam).

edit: oh did i mention the pet is also a free invis in addition to its inability to hit a moving target and total confusion vs a stealth class? it can’t even start to run towards the target before it is gone again.

vespers.1759:

The lower health amounts —> a glass ranger has about 14k hp. is that extra 2k hp going to save you when thieves can do 15k in 2 hits as evidenced by the SS above?

the single target nature of those builds —> a 1v1 is a 1v1. ikittenerg they just run around 2 shotting and stealth stomping. such a downside!

the loss of other forms of defenses to utilize these —> you have invis every few seconds. that’s the best defense in the game. i’d love to see other classes run around 15 people all day.

the fact that the main defense many of them need isn’t actually a defense against competent players (read: not you). —> how is it an issue of competence when a class lacks any skill to counter it and has 30% of their dps coming from an AI that is braindead?

You do not roll a ranger and expect to tank like a guardian so why do you think you can roll a ranger and expect to damage like a thief? —> dumb because a guard does no dmg in a full tank build (400h on guard so don’t tell me i’m wrong) while a thief has more defense than a guard ever could by virtue of being invisible every few seconds and still having insane dps vs the tank.

a class should not have the best burst in the game and the best defense. sure a warrior can do a big killshot… but it takes a long kitten time to cast and they are totally out in the open while doing it. nothing can stop a 5k steal + 8k backstab + 7k heartseeker from stealth except a lucky dodge (and dodges don’t stop heartseeker spam).

edit: oh did i mention the pet is also a free invis in addition to its inability to hit a moving target and total confusion vs a stealth class? it can’t even start to run towards the target before it is gone again.

Rangers have protection and bark-skin (30% DR while under 30% health.)

The fact that you think invisibility = invincibility is the core problem with your arguement, Good players know where the thief is moving 90% of the time, this means that for the most part they will still be hitting said thief.

Invisibility is a defensive and offensive move, but it is neither invincibility or a replacement for actual damage reduction.

Claiming stealth is better than an entire tank guardians defensive set is ridiculous

Wanna survive theif burst? stack toughness, vitality, healing power if you don’t then don’t come on the forum and complain until then i hope all theifs kill you btw culling is the problem not stealth.

Seeing as you are obviously glass cannon, and an ele at that, popping a meteor shower on top of you would have destroyed him.

He takes as much damage, I hope you remember that.

vespers.1759:

Auesis.7301:

Each hit of Double Strike (the first auto-attack in the 3-part chain) hit you for 1k, and Wild Strike (part 2) hit for THREE THOUSAND. What on earth were you wearing? Paper? Might as well have run in to battle in the nude. There is something seriously wrong here.

You have no excuse.

so the solution is to wear only heavy armor and get hit for 5k instead of 7k while thieves run in full zerk without a care in the world because of invis?

and the worst part is a glass canon ranger does about 1k on most of their damage skills. greatsword number 2 hits for 3.5k max.

that totally compares to a thief’s DPS!

It’s not just the gear, I bet none of your traits are in your toughness line are they? You simply can’t run full on “put everything into making attack stronger” builds in PvP, hasn’t worked in any PvP game in history. Even thieves don’t do that. They usually put 30 points in to toughness tree; even those wearing berserker gear.

vespers.1759:

a glass ranger has about 14k hp. is that extra 2k hp going to save you when thieves can do 15k in 2 hits as evidenced by the SS above?

Ranger has a base of 15k health

Thief has a base of 10k health

With Full zerker gear and no traits/runes giving Vitality/Toughness a Thief will die from someone sneezing near them. If they don’t, it means they did something weird like Build so people can’t insta-gib them so they can survive to put out damage.

vespers.1759:

how is it an issue of competence when a class lacks any skill to counter it

It’s an issue of competence when smashing your face into your attack keys on the keyboard can make your character attack and if having knowledge of the most common ways of moving whilst stealthed will continue to damage them consistently.

Also skills a ranger has access to that counter thieves: Flame Trap, Spike Trap, Viper Nest, Frost Trap (They can’t move in stealth = free hits on them), Entangle and Rapid Fire (Will continue to follow them even if they stealth).

if it is not over 9000 (over nine thousaaaaand….!!!!)
the thief is doing it wrong.