Guild Wars 2

I am tired of reading posts on this forum about how bad thieves are at WvW so I decided to post my build. Feel free to ask questions.

Thieves are great in WvW. I have 0 problems killing anyone except maybe warriors. I accept that I can lose to 1 class in 1v1 combat.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mzkzzc9MMlvnoMlvnoGxG9McsoabzR

I run a backstab build that focuses on surviving. I have died 21 times in WvW (I take pride in not dying so I have been running a counter) and I have over 2200 kills. I use D/D for almost everything. I have a shortbow as secondary but I may pull it out once a night.

My build is 20/30/20. This gives a nice power boost, all the crit talents, and 200 extra toughness. For gear, I use all Valk gear. Valk gear is vitality, crit dmg and power btw. Without orbs, I have 17.6k health. Keep in mind, I still have green trinkets to replace.

How does this work?
Most of my dmg is backstab and auto attacking. I only ever use heart seeker to close the gap. I don’t use it for dmg. I don’t use blossom except for rare cases. Dancing dagger is to slow people so CnD can land therefore setting up another back stab.

The other abilities:
The stealth heal, Your choice (more below), signet of shadows for the run speed, blinding powder, and dagger storm (cant remember official name).
For the first ability, I almost always use roll for inititive. This is your get out of jail for free ability. Without it, I don’t have a chance on warriors. It has saved my life more than I could possibly count.
Other alternatives, shadow refuge, scorpion wire (for attacking keeps)

The focus is on living. Shortbow / pistols /swords do not kill people fast enough. If you do attempt the haste + stun combo, roll for initiative counters it. I honestly focus thieves using range weapons first just out of spite.

Reasons for talents:
Mug – Since I don’t use poisons, mug is a great alternative as the first talent in the power tree. I have had it crit for 4.8k dmg on steal.
Dagger training – Obvious choice for a dagger build
Practice tolerance – Great choice for extra health
Critical haste – Basically a filler at the moment
Hidden killer – The entire build is built around this talent. This is why I don’t purposely stack precision. When most of my dmg is backstab dmg, well… it is guaranteed to crit
Master of deception – More stealths = more backstabs and better chance to get away
Hidden thief – This ability is priceless. Steal now puts me in stealth which sets up for a backstab instantly. I purposely blow my stolen weapon just to use steal again.

How to get away from a guaranteed death:
I have escaped so many “guaranteed” deaths. My friends who I play with become quite upset with me since I never die and they do (it’s their fault for following me after all).
If you get rooted and you cant move, roll for initiative. Use anything that will stealth you. A great trick is to steal on a mob that is far away. Instant gap + stealth
Detarget everything and then spam heart seeker. You can’t have the option on for targeting the closest target mind you. Heart seeker is faster travel than IA.
Rinse and repeat until you are safe.

I don’t crit for 10k like the glass cannon build. I do crit for up to 9k though. Point is, you aren’t waiting on cool downs to kill someone and this is built for survival.

Like I mentioned earlier, 1v1:
I have never lost to any class 1v1 except for a good warrior. Mesmers are annoying but squishy. Even guardians die but it can take me twice as long to kill one than other classes. Warriors though… They are the only reason why I went with roll for initiative. I can kill them but every fight is down to the wire (assuming they are good players and geared).

Feel free to leave feedback

Have you thought about replacing 20 in Deadly Arts into 20 in Trickery? Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft seems more beneficial compared to the damage from Mug and Dagger Training especially if the boons you stole are Protection and Regen/Aegis. Plus, the 20% extra crit damage helps you in the long run. Just a thought.

Its not a bad idea. I can look into it. It seems to be more situational than anything. What happens if the target does not have any boons on them? The biggest change is the missing 200 power. Is losing all the dmg worth the trickery gain? Even though I am not a glass cannon per se, I am still built around killing people as quickly as possible.

Side note: People overlook mug… it is really a great talent. Open with a 5k crit steal followed by a 8k crit backstab. I’ll definitely look into it though. Thanks!

Edit: Keep in mind that I rarely run out of initiative. Only time I do is when I spam HS as a get away tool or if I happen to miss with CnD.

Also wondering why you took dagger training over improvisation or sundering strikes, seems both of those would outweigh the dagger training in a WvW environment.

+1 for TotC and Bountiful Theft

If you stick with Shadow Arts, Cloaked in Shadows is worth a try as well.

Personally, I love mug and miss it when I do not have it…steal, CnD and Backstab can do some really nasty burst damage. (CnD if you do not have hidden thief ofc, which I do not)

I tried improv once before and I didn’t notice any change so I moved away from it. Maybe I was missing something?

As for sundering strike, I just didn’t like the chance %. I am very anti-chance at all possible times. Vulnerability will work well in a large group but its very rare when I run with the zerg. I find the zerg running to be extremely boring and it doesn’t require any “real” skill.

I normally roam solo or with up to 2 friends. When we do participate in huge fights, we pick people off at the sides or in the back. Practically suicide to jump into the middle regardless what class you play. Since I am not stacking precision, sundering strikes will be diminished in its return. I think I sit at 25% base crit normally.

I run a very similar build using a 20/30/20/0/0 w/ Hidden Killer setup. It’s definitely a fun setup.

Dagger Storm is great w/ the reflect projectiles is great, but the channel leaves open to aoes and melee hits. With all the stealthing you can do in your build, I’d suggest Basilisk Venom for easy setups for backstabs or even just Thieves Guild for extra damage and bodies on the field. I’ve used the thieves before to block attempts to cripple/immobilize.

Try out Cloaked in Shadows and Shadow Protector if you want to eek out a bit more survivability.

I use dagger storm defensively. I use it to deflect projectiles (great to completely counter another thief’s dagger storm). If a melee jumps on me mid-spin, I cancel the spin with an evade and leap away. Only time I use it offensively is if I roll up on a lot of people almost dead and I want to slow and tag them or when a thief goes stealth with no hp.

I don’t think I could give up steal → stealth but I’ll drop the lower deception talent tonight and try out some of the other ones to see if it works better with my setup.

The thief guild I normally use for pve and I dont like the casting time for basilisk venom to be honest. That’s the best part of this game though, so many different combinations work well together. Thanks!

I’m deeply intrigued by this build. I recently changed from D/D backstab to a D/P backstab because I felt that never using DB was a waste. I also dropped my Deadly Arts line to pick up Acrobatics, to put it lightly, I’ve had better results.

I think I’m gonna adopt your core build, make some personal tweaks to it, and see how it pans out for me. I’m also going back to D/D, lol, this D/P business just isn’t for me.

Thanks for sharing!

Oh, I’d never give up Hidden Thief myself. That’d be my only reason to go 20 into Shadow Arts.

Yeah Basilisk’s cast time is a pain. I normally use it in transit before I arrive at a point, normally ~2000 – 1800 range, or when I drop back from a fight and I’m letting regen tick a few from Shadow Protector.

Definitely nice to see others using the same build.

I like what you’ve done here. I did make some changes that are more suited to my playstyle though (moved 10 from deadly arts to trickery, with caltrop dodge, swapped the blind utility for shadow refuge).

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#MzkzzMz0MlvFoMlvnoaxG0acoaboRc

I find I like gun/dagger + dagger/dagger, hence the changes. Granted, I’m not much of a PvPer, I feel this would be more suited for PvE. I’m also inclined to take Thieves Guild over dagger storm due to preferring gun and some range, but that’s up for debate.

Edit – I take it back. After using it for a while, Blinding powder is freaking amazing.

kinda like mine d/d-p/p. but i use blind a lot.

III,IX
III,VI,XI
VI,VIII
-
-

blindpowder,25%speed,refuge,dagerstorm.

with yellow/green gear, i can get into the zerg, get a kill+finish, and get out.
and great in 1v1.