[Experimental Build] Fervent Malice Thief

[Experimental Build] Fervent Malice Thief

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQRAoY6an8MBFOhNmCGmCkmildCbLAUbaTzLwH4Es7tEn+BA-TZxGABAcCAS4hA0x+DGcEAsvMAA

Format: sPvP

Technique: Evade and strike your foes with numerous attacks. Your attacks heal you and allow you to sustain all while dealing out sustained power damage. You have several stun breaks and numerous condi clears. Pressure enemies with interrupts and autoattack damage.

Tactics: Dedicated to harassing far node and providing direct fire support using P/P for ranged burst.

*Note this build is entirely theory and needs to be tested. Opinions welcome. It’s also sPvP so feel free to try it out and provide feedback that way too.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I wonder how much more sustain you would get with the IP GM trait taken over No Quarter.

You get that Regen, the assassins reward, the malice signet and crit heals all coming in at once. That should do an even better job of ensuring your GI is always at work taking off those conditions.

Out of the utilities I always found Distracting daggers a “distraction”. Without PI they just do not do enough and very often you “forget” to get all three off in the time allotted.

Infiltrators might be better there to give some added gap closure which both d/d and p/p lack. It would also return some of that INI you lose by not being in Trickery.

(edited by babazhook.6805)

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

I think triple heal on hit/crit/initiative spend would be better for sustain…but I worry about the damage and the sustain being redundant. This build would be dodging quite often and so the healing needs to be consistent but not overwhelming imo. I still need to test this because my job takes up more of my time these days and I have less time to play during the week.

I threw in distracting daggers because I wanted to have a solid interrupt on my bar while fighting in melee range with the daggers. You might be right though that the extra initiative would be helpful where I’m not stealing and regaining initiative. Swapping to P/P for interrupts might not be terrible and the smoke powder with the dodge is a blind combo…so might have to see how that works in practice.

Part of why I wanted to develop this build was because so many builds “require” trickery. I like the extra initiative, but if you look at a sustain build it is more about the regeneration of initiative than the total pool available. It may not play like a traditional thief would but that gets us outside the meta box.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

[Experimental Build] Fervent Malice Thief

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

I found you COULD drop trickery if you either had another ini source (such as upperhand or the Ini from Shadow rejuv) , or if the utilities chosen could subsititute in the way of utility for more damage (fist flurry) or utility you would normaly look for off the weapon set.

P/P is just so ini hungry if you want to use unload to any great extent so on that score some sort of boon duration add would help which I am not sure you can get through PvP.

What you would want to do with that ranged spiked I would think is get an unload or two off and then move in close for your d/d attacks . Without any ports outside the steal you might not be able to do this quickly enough so as to leverage that might you may have built and do damage with your d/d AA as your INI recovers.

You do have some extra movement speed with the swiftness on Dodge but I think you will find the overall lack of mobility will hurt you. D/D is lacking in that mobility across the board.

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Posted by: saerni.2584

saerni.2584

The thought was to place this thief on a point and contest it. In sPvP the node closest to the team’s base, their “home,” is usually only decapped because the team respawns and can then win a fight if you try to hold it—because if your team dies they have farther to run back to rejoin the fight.

I’d only use the P/P aspect for ranged pressure if someone ended up being off point and I needed to apply damage but wanted to stay on point. I’m not sure about this of course I may end up changing my mind, but in any case that was my initial thought process.

Adding in a source of initiative regeneration is good…I might have to consider the other options if initiative becomes a problem.

Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
Thief (Daredevil)
Commandant of Pistol-Dagger and Apex Predator

[Experimental Build] Fervent Malice Thief

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Posted by: babazhook.6805

babazhook.6805

If PvP anything like WvW for contesting points , the on point AOE and traps will do you in quickly. I found I could do it with that DB spam off a d/d thief using that same SOM . This was supplemented by the heals off the Lotus training dodges and Assassins reward but said thief had over 3k armor and more health then your own. He also had more heals come in as the SOM was proccing off the multiple attacks on the Deathblossom. (all of this factoring into why I think you might need IP as well)

The occasional stun he could break but if he was at anytime caught with an Immob even that higher armor and health would not save him.

Good luck in any case. I always like to see people trying builds that defy convention.

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Posted by: zGwmark.7139

zGwmark.7139

This build caught my eye a few days ago and inspired me to do some testing.
However, I made some alterations right at the start and will discuss that in the following paragraphs:

-> I dropped P/P for SB. -> With Mender’s Amulet your damage output, even considering Unload, is not very high. Of course you can contribute to fights from a distance but I’d much rather have the mobility of SB. I understand that this is not a fast decap/+1 build but not running SB in sPvP is a bit of a waste imho, you are not using your class to its full potential, even considering the nature of the build.
-> Switched Distraction Daggers for Shadow Step -> Same reason as the previous one, with the additional note that this would completely remove the ability to interrupt abilities and attacks which might needs to be addressed.
-> Swapping NQ for IP -> I simply liked the extra sustain, yes you lose the extra Fury but in light of the goal of this build and its low dmg output regardless, I’d rather have more sustain.

Here are my thoughts after playing the altered build: (note that it was tested in unranked which meant an unbalanced environment and often put me against lower-skill rated players)(Mid-gold ranked MMR & ~1.5k matches played)

Sustaining was no issue, I could keep up with every dedicated sustain build, and sometimes even two enemies at once for several minutes however it was due to the unbalance of the matchup. Even after losing Fury IP was useful, though as a Rune variant I’d recommend testing Rune of the Pack. It has a slightly lower Precision bonus but it provides a free TotC with a 25% chance on 30s CD and boosts your swiftness duration (with only the Acro swiftness-on-dodge trait it means 1 extra second) which comes in handy if you are not running Dash nor TotC.
Mobility was notably weaker (in the absence of Dash and TotC) but still better than most classes if not all.
I was testing other dodges as well, Dash was useful for mobility but lost a considerable sustain, Bound was useful in cases where you fought a lot of enemies that were not dedicated sustain builds, hence you could slowly out-sustain and kill them greatly benefiting from the dmg buff of Bound. Impaling Lotus was a good pick for more sustain and against builds that lack consistent condition clear. Constant Torment and Bleed application really hurt most of them. As far as dodges go I’d pick the one most suitable for the situation.
Taking the effort to consider what I dodge and where, I was able to keep up my endurance and Initiative, with the occasional need to use SoA or Bandit’s Defense if things got heated. I only ran out of options when I was pressured by 3+ ppl and had to leave the fight to recover.

In conclusion; the build achieved what it was aiming for, and definitely highlighted the possible viability for this unique role. It is the marriage of sustain builds and fast decap/+1 Thief builds. It is one of those builds that you really need your team to play around it, but that is the case for most Thief builds anyways.
And of course the mandatory paragraph about how this is not optimal for high-rating matches, it is a sub-optimal craft that executes what it is meant for but everything it does, it does it with less effectiveness than the dedicated builds for all corresponding roles. It works in lower tier match ups and a definite diversity in build range.
Would do further testing, also in ranked environment, trying the aforementioned alternatives and further optimizing.

(edited by zGwmark.7139)

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Posted by: darksouls.3908

darksouls.3908

How do you get your thief to one hit kill? I have a thief and I cant do it and I see people do it so I don’t understand.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

This build looks like it would get torn apart by any of the DH burn blow up builds running around. A Bunker Tempest is also going to be a massive handful. Anything with a solid Alpha strike (another thief) should make short work of this build as well.

How do you get your thief to one hit kill? I have a thief and I cant do it and I see people do it so I don’t understand.

In sPvP it doesn’t happen. There is no one shot kill in sPvP due to gear limitations. The way it happens in WvW is damage multiplier stacking.

Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”