Guild Wars 2

You know who you are: you win most of your PvP battles.

My question, what specifically do you do better than thieves who lose most of the time?

1) Have you memorized all the animations of all the classes so you know exactly what is coming, and what you must do in the next 1/10th of a second to avoid it?

Or do you just look for any animation and hit dodge or stun?

2) How did you go from bad to good? Did you practice on training dummies to get your automatic reflexes solid on the proper keys? Did you think it all through first and come up with a plan for each opposing profession?

Laserbolt.6731:

You know who you are: you win most of your PvP battles.

My question, what specifically do you do better than thieves who lose most of the time?

1) Have you memorized all the animations of all the classes so you know exactly what is coming, and what you must do in the next 1/10th of a second to avoid it?

Or do you just look for any animation and hit dodge or stun?

2) How did you go from bad to good? Did you practice on training dummies to get your automatic reflexes solid on the proper keys? Did you think it all through first and come up with a plan for each opposing profession?

Training dummies are pretty useless to practice on. It’s all about trial and error.

You can always enter an empty server with a friend and practice that way, or just go tackle the 1000 mobs that pull, stun, knockdown, and knockback in orr.

Don’t be afraid to try new things.

Avoid the cookie cutter styles of play – good players have seen this before and will be prepared to deal with it.

Sounds are very important indicators – pay attention with your eyes and your ears.

Nothing can replace practice.

play other professions that you’re having trouble against and find out their weakness… this may sound cheesy but it’s really helpful if you just go in the mists and try and play another profession for a couple of days and learn more about it.. you’ll know what to expect when fighting them

There are some very basic things to get started with if you don’t have it down already.

1. Memorize all Class steal abilities

2. Know what buffs each class uses so you can ID them before you engage

- this goes with #1 since you should know what the steal is and plan to use it, for instance guardians have the blue signet buffs when you target them and you get a 4 sec daze. Hug them when they get to 50% then use it as they start their cast their heal but hold off if they invuln first etc)

3. Get stealth timing down pat.

- depending on your spec you get 3 or 4 seconds of stealth and more for refuge. It’s important to be able to go by feel. If you have 4 seconds and the condition removal on stealth you should be able to remove 2 conditions by waiting long enough before you open from stealth. Go by feel, not looking at your buff bar. Also helps with healing via shadow traits. Knowing how to stay in stealth as long as possible (when necessary) makes a difference.

4. Slot Shadowstep even if you don’t like it.

-It’s our best defensive ability especially combined with stealth. It took me a while to warm up to it personally but it’s amazing.

5. Don’t force stuff

- most of my deaths are from forcing a stomp that I shouldn’t or going after a target who is low when everything is on cooldown and they have friends around. I tend to try to down them anyway then die but it’s really dumb of me to do that. Sort of under this is C&D spam if you have it. I call it taking a breather. Sometimes you just let stealth naturally pop you so that you can immediately C&D again or just do a couple #1’s and stealth faster than you would be able to with an opener. Alternatively, If you do want to do an opener with Pistol#1 it’s important to be patient and wait until your target isn’t obstructed so they take all 5 shots. If their groupmates or a mob/pet is between you and them they will take teh brunt of the attack. Wait a couple seconds after you stealth to open or do it instantly, most will try to pre-evade a second after a thief stealths.

6. Dodging

- hard to get into detail here but there is almost no reason to hold back on dodging any attack where any enemy charges ^ leaps ^ ridesthelighting ^ makes big falcon graphic and flys at you ^ whatever at you. Some stuff comes with time like engeneer nets. Most will spam these at you so being able to “feel” when they are going to do it helps you dodge faster animations like that. 90% of the time I dodge after a C&D they are almost always attacking when you head in for one.

7. Use the environment

- Things need los to hit. Run around rocks, jump off cliffs with 50% fall reduction, hit mobs/Siege/pets with C&D. In WvW Round up mobs and train them on a group chasing you. Be a scumbag thief!

8. Keybind everything if you aren’t already.

Practice practice practice practice practice… Nothing can substitute experience. If you have any friends who are good at PvP (preferably much better than you), duel them repeatedly (just join an empty server). In a chaotic 4v4 fight, it’s often pretty hard to tell what exactly you did wrong. However, if you repeatedly duel someone, you’ll start to realize what you need to improve. Keep doing this until you can beat them.

Look up build guides, but DO NOT blindly use a build you’ve found online. GW2 isn’t a game where one or two builds reign king and all other are inferior. In any given build, there are some traits that are going to be essential and some that depend on the player. You should be constantly trying out new builds, and constantly tweaking your current build in an effort to improve it. It took me something like 20 iterations (with hours on each) before I settled on the build I’m using now as a perfect fit. Even still, I’m constantly trying out new variations to see if I can make it better.

Learn about other classes. You don’t need to memorize the animations for every skill (although that helps), but you do need to be able to figure out what kind of build they’re using in a hurry so you can better counter it. The more you know about their class and build, the better your odds of winning will be. This is also important for working alongside your allies. I’ll have a very different strategy working with a hammer warrior than I will with a condition necro. Read the wiki!

Pay attention. No matter how good you get, you’re going to die. When you do die, you need to know why you died so you can figure out how not to do that again. Death in this game isn’t a punishment, it’s an opportunity to become better. Every time you die, you’ve received a sign that you have room to improve.

Oh, and PRACTICE.

Dacromir and Stiv, thanks, that was awesome info, very useful because it was detailed.

i pvp-ed with a friend 1 vs 1 on empty servers. i learned a lot, me and him. true story.

Dieing alot is a massive eye opener heh

From constant PVP you learn each skill animation over time without knowing your doing it

Look at class forums and looking at thier skill rotations and trait builds helps you understand what people are building and whats out there. The rotations of certain skills will come out like you see on youtube or how they explain it in the forums. You pretty much know what they will do next

Visualize the fight before it happens, Prepare for the worst, hope for the best

Micro manage the fight. If you a thief dont blow your init in one big hit. do a couple of test attacks, see how good the opponent really is before playing all your cards. Some guardians or mesmers just blocks, wait for a burst then leave you with nothing before they start thier skill rotation

Know what classes to kill first, know your weaknesses. If your a pistol thief you can kite the melee guys as you shoot down other ranged players. If your trying to kill a guardian while 1 ele is hitting you, your chances of success will be lower than if you left the guardian till last

Know your skills/weapons. To many thiefs have mastered what backstab or heartseeker does. Put Blackpowder or certain other underused skills in the hands of a good player and they are the ones who win. If you dont know what a skill might be useful for in a fight, study it until you do. I use all my skills at the right time. Nothing gets left out in a proper fight

Alot of thiefs are using 50% of thier skills,

swap out your utilitys/weapons, some are good for roaming and others for zerging – Its free to do it, so do it!

When you click on a player look at his boons/conditions – That will help you find out what build he is (DPS or Defensive) and what he will do next (Also helps you find out what class he is as in WvW it doesnt tell you)

Healing in a zerg, you dont have to do it!! just run back till you leave combat, automatically heal, then run back to the front line, you then save your heal skill for when you really need it

To become competitive you have to know the ins and outs of every class available in the game.

I’m still on that myself

Thanks, Webley.

Another useful thing, When you see a guy and discover what class/build he is (By looking at his boons/conditions) look at his weapons, that will tell you what weapon rotations he will be using

You should have already discovered how squishy a greatsword warrior is compared to a shield warrior and thus you know whats required of you to take it down and how to play/counter

observe before entering any fight is a number 1 tip

Look at the foods the enemy is using, its a great way for figuring out what hes buffed the most, you can then quickly tell what kind of things they will want to use to kill you so you can dodge/counter accordingly. If you see a food that gives prec or power chance you know your not up against a condition build. If you see food buffs that gives 40% condition duration you know the enemy will try and melt you with condition damage so get prepared to clense them. The better players with better knowledge also tend to use the foods

Waste as many of thier cooldowns as possible before using yours, if your blowing utilities before they have blown any themselves you are the one loosing

Kill the guys with green arrows first, they drop easily but can still hurt if left alone. A full lvl 80 guy will have all his skills and gear and will take longer to kill

know when to disengage a fight and run to survive!

Use NPCs!! If your outnumbered they can turn the tides of battle. You can also use cloak and dagger on NPC’s to move around the map in stealth as you escape. Stealing from rabbits and eagles also has a chance to give you an extra stealth stolen skill (And also teleports you further away from the guys chasing you)

just be smart, out think them. Knowledge is power in this game. At the top of the knowledge pyramid, it comes down to some skill and counter builds.

Discover the worst possible kind of build/class you could ever face and find a way to counter it. If you can kill your arch enemy, you can kill most other sub-enemies

1. reasons I do better than 90% of the thieves I see out there:
   1) I am not glass cannon
   2) I don’t spam my attacks, I take my time and feel my opponent (teehee)
   3) I am so pr0

The most basic piece of advice that I can give you is fight with a clear head. Try to suppress the panic you may feel when an enemy jumps you, or when they begin to fight back. If you fight feeling flustered or panicked you will:

- Go for the closest target instead of the correct one
- Blows all your utilities prematurely instead of using them when needed
- Spam skills and waste initiative instead of using your skills intelligently
- Attack! Attack! Attack! instead of playing defensively when needed, like waiting out your stealth and restealthing, ducking behind objects or making the choice to quit the fight altogether
- In short, playing like an idiot instead of playing smart

A good, practical method to help develop intelligent play is to feel out your opponent first. Don’t play balls to the wall aggressive all the time with the same rotations because your opponent will know what to expect it if he’s awake and thinking. Start with your shortbow/pistol and ping him a few times to see how he reacts. Don’t necessarily play to win, just play to see what he does so you can practice some counterplays. You will die at first but you will be okay with that because you’re not playing to win, you know you’re just practicing.

Also, as several posters said, know your opponent. This means more then simply knowing which class you’re facing (though any knowledge is better than none) as classes can have a huge variety of setups. For example if I see a hammer warrior I’ll know to kite him with ranged weapons because I don’t wish to be caught in melee and cc-locked. I’ll also be getting ready to dodge his leap attempts. If I see a greatsword warrior I’ll be watching for 100 blades or Bull’s Charge and getting ready to dodge/use my anti-cc. Those players reading this, learning and anticipating these moves take time and practice ‘on the job’. You won’t be able to learn or even improve very much by reading about it – think of this as getting a bit of background reading done before you dive in again. You need this hands on practice to get to the state you want where you find yourself making judgements in combat ‘by feel,’ as another poster mentioned. Intellectual judgements take too much time, especially when playing a twitchy, bursty thief. To do this effectively you also must know YOUR class inside out. The best way to do this and learn your own traits and skills is to try on a variety of builds and see what feels right for you.

Another simple way to improve is to learn the boon symbols. In combat you want to be constantly glancing up to read the boons on your target (you can do this because now you’re playing smart). Obviously when Aegis/Protection/Retaliation is up, you’ll be saving your big hitters or going in for the steal to claim them for yourself if you have traited far enough into Trickery to snatch them away. Likewise, when an offensive boon is up, like Fury, play with that extra bit of caution because your opponent will want to be playing aggressively then.

Finally, don’t try to learn everything at once. Choose ONE area where you want to improve and keep at it until you feel that you’ve made some good progress and can use your one piece of knowledge/skill effectively without trying too hard. It might take a day or a week. When you’ve got it, stay aware and move on.

Practice! Pretty much all there is to it. Everyone does things their own way.

You will learn enemy looks, buffs and playstyles as you go. Read the playing field, pick your targets accordingly! If some of them go for you, generally you should be aiming for their backline friends first.

If you died and you don’t know what went wrong, check that combat log. Which skills did a lot of damage. What knocked you down! Learn and adapt!

For thief basics. We are mobile, very very mobile. So use this to your advantage. Keep moving, keep dodging. Know the range of your attacks. Shortbow nr1 and Dancing dagger (nr4) are amazing tools on the move!

And to sum it up, Practice and have Fun!

Sarrow, that was epic. Thanks for taking the time to write that. Great stuff.

Thanks, Puz. Great advice.

No matter what build you’re using, thieves’ success mostly depends on the initiation and how well you execute it. It really dictates the battle that much.

I am not considering myself an “expert”, but I do have something like 5 wins : 1 loss ratio now. On Saturday, I had 4 hours straight without losing a single game (props to the players I teamed with, too).

All previous advices given in this thread are worthful. But This 5 : 1 ratio mentionned above only came after one fact : I changed from a damage build to a defense/avoid/healing build. (0/15/30/25/0)

This was really the game changer for me. Actually my health can sit at 90% for ages in 1vs1. And I can tank up to 4 guys without much problems for 10-20 seconds before being in real danger (enough to trigger a full Dagger Storm on them).
Granted I’m aware of enemy attacks, I swap weapons a lot, and save my CDs … but without this build I clearly wouldn’t perform this well.

It seems like once again in a mmo, healing/tank builds are the king of PvP… :/

Just a simple tip that most other thieves do not know.(from a dualwield dagger view):

Cloak and dagger is a wonderful skill! use it everytime you are going to finish a downed player, since nobody sees you nobody will try to interupt you. (Example: Finish a downed player while 2 are ressing him and 5 others are just standing next to them watching other stuff)

Dancing daggers is a Beast when fighting 2 enemies close to each other. It bounces back and forth between them 2 which equal the same damage as a heartseeker does on a target below 50% health ,but on both of them. (Example: Ranger with his pet next to him, makes you get the ranger from 100% health to 0% after 3-4 daggers which takes around 4 seconds, another example is when 1 player is completely dead and 2 others are trying to ress him and you pop all your initiative on dancing dagger spam they both go from 100% to 0% and are now themself need of a ress)

I didnt know these stuff when i started. I thought both of them were pretty useless and heartseeker was the one and only skill you needed.

Thats just super simple things that really can change your day. But the most important thing is experience, Play.. play and play more and you will become a good player.

This is a great thread.

Thanks Rissou and KineticDamage.

Rissou.7213:

Just a simple tip that most other thieves do not know.(from a dualwield dagger view):

Cloak and dagger is a wonderful skill! use it everytime you are going to finish a downed player, since nobody sees you nobody will try to interupt you.

While this is true, it is only true because many players are really really bad at reacting to stealth. The proper counter is for those guys standing around to just auto-attack the air above their downed buddy, killing the thief in a couple seconds (and before a finisher gets close to being complete, unless hasted).

If your stealthing alot and there are people who are AoE’ing and Auto attacking in an attempt to hit you (Or guardians pull in ability) you know your facing good players and to be carefull as they prolly know as much about stealth as you do