Guild Wars 2

Hey guys!

I am trying to help a friend with his thief build.
He just reached level 80 but for the life of him he cannot figure out how to play a thief well. The first problem – he does not know how to stealth… (big problem)

My question to you Thieves expert is what build should he use.
In which abilities he should apply his trait points and what weapons work best.
Right now he is only using 2 pistols and 2 daggers.

I am a mesmer and guardian player and I have no idea how to helping.

Thieves are crazy on WvW!! they go inand out of stealth all the time.

What is the best build for stealh??

Help please.

I wont say i’m an expert because i am not! But for a good stealth build your friend could use Shadow Arts, although this might change. If i was you i should first wait for the patch since that might change a few things, but not sure because we don’t know what will come. Maybe nerfs maybe buffs, we dont know Untill than Shadow Arts for sure!

Greets,

Gerke

Dagger Dagger, Cloak and Dagger 5# move. Count 3 seconds, rinse and repeat.

Blinding powder.

Heal.

Shadow Refuge.

30 crits, 30 shadow arts (crit 100% out of stealth), 10 for mug.

Wont be instant killing people, but nice damage and damage taking in wvwvw. Lots of stealth. Lasts 4 seconds longer. Heals you. 25% health go into it. 2 stealth moves on the utilities. 1 stealth move on heal. Repeatable stealth move on attack in melee range.

If you want condition damage, look at pistol dagger. And use the same move and utilites above with different traits, armours, runes, sigils.

Shortbow as second weapon always for a new player, quick escape and quick movement, nice aoe damage if you are scared to get involved in the fight.

You play with your mesmer in wvwvw with him, and his blinding powder can stealth you and your clones adding to the confusion.

Stealth stops, stealth res, daggerstorm for aoe to reflect projectiles or basalisk venom for a nice stun.

Not any good with thief but decent information, much more available if you spend the 5 mins i took to wrote this to look through the thief forums here.

For stealth heavy builds, any build with dagger offhand (for C&D) or D/P are ideal, with the addition of stealth utilities.
As for a particular build, you can ask 10 thieves and get 10 different answers. What matters most is what build fits the playstyle he wants most.

You can go with:
Conditions:
- Tanky (Usually P/D with Carrion or Rabid)
- Evasive (usually D/D or SB with Carrion, Rabid, or Rampager’s)

Direct Damage:
- Tanky (typically see P/P, S/D, S/P with this most often and Soldier, Knights)
- Burst (usually D/D, sometimes see D/P With use of Berserker’s, Valkyrie or a mix)
- Sustained (S/D, S/P, SB, P/P, SB with a well balanced gearset [power, prec, tough, and vitality])

While stealth isn’t as heavily utilized in some of the builds, most do use it quite a bit.

As for Trait point distribution. The more Shadow Arts, the more survival traits at your disposal. A balance between survival and DPS that fits each individual player’s needs simply has to be found on trial and error basis.

Like you are a mesmer, you must admit that you can be effective in different ways. Cat shatter/ heavy / etc. All depends who is behind the screen that controls the thief, some are not good in stealthbuilds but excels in powerbuild. At the end it is just to figure it out what suits you best.

Offhand dagger is all yo really need. Dance around your opponent, go into stealth with cloak and dagger, get into position then hit them with your mainhand weapon #1, dance around, hitting them, avoid getting hit, when revealed wears off, get another cloak and dagger in, rinse and repeat.

Mainhand pistol is recommended for starters, keeps your distance and yo don’t need to C&D on your target. Tell him to watch some Wild Bill and other thief video’s on youtube.

Builds generally uses 30 Shadow Arts, condition removal, healing third major of choice, 20 – 25 Acrobatics, dodge is good, more dodge is better; feline grace. The first major has some good choices. Rest (15-20) in Trickery, caltrops on dodge, more intitiative doesn’t hurt either. Use the wiki page to find what you like.

Gear for P/D focusses on survival with condition damage as main damage source, toughness, some power and vitality never hurt, even healing fits in. Other weapon options do not use condition damage as much so you might want to go power/crit rather then condition damage – with the option of using Sword or Dagger in the mainhand, or P/P on weaponswap – until you know which weapons you like best.

Thief with 15k kills here.
Here is a build that is easy to remember yet quite effective; once he learned this he can start to learn more advanced builds.

Build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY6alUmiPHdy5E+5Ey2jKUnIK+DFlODaqlA;TQALCGFsLYSA

Application:
Upon seeing an enemy preload Cloak and Dagger, use Steal, go to their back, Backstab, Heartseekers.
When melee is too risky use Unload with dual pistols.
Dagger storm when focused by ranged fire.
Blinding power and Shadowstep to avoid death.

Armor:
Knight helmet with Beryl orb.
Knight shoulders with Beryl orb.
Valkyrie coat with Beryl orb.
Knight pants with Beryl orb.
Knight boots with Beryl orb.

Jewelry:
1 Valkyrie ring with Beryl jewel.
4 Berserker Amu/Ring/Earring with Ruby orb.

Consumables: Superior sharpening stone, Orrian truffle steak.

Stats of the build in pic.

<iframe width=“853” height=“480” src=“http://www.youtube.com/embed/mg3M5Ei9MPc” frameborder=“0” allowfullscreen></iframe>

Me annoying people with my Thief that has 30 points in Shadow arts, but don’t even think you need those points to be there for what I did which was just simply press the number 5 skills which I think is called cloak and dagger. Anyhow you want to put points in shadow arts because its a good trait line to gain initiatives faster.

You want to use skills like cloak and dagger, blind powder if that’s what it’s called in which thieves actually got several stealth skills if you check.

Anyhow if you did watch the video, after a few mins of annoying the people on the siege, I got them all to bring the zerg after me and try to kill me.

Besides finding the right build he’s going to have to work on getting his CnD timing down. It’s easy to practice in PVE since missing one CnD in PVP can cause your death. Practice on stuff in PVE till he’s comfortable enough to bring it to PVP.

As far as builds go, he’s using 2 pistols and 2 daggers. Is he dead set on keeping those two as his wep sets?

It’s incredible how a lot of people asking the same thing of the OP were not answered while just beacuse the OP asked advice from EXPERT thieves there are a lot of answers.

He asked for help with understanding thief gameplay. Mostly what I see is “QQ I died to a thief” on threads.
I answer every post I see with legitimate questions like “How do I improve?”. Has nothing to do with being an"expert" or not.

PS. - As you can see, most people who replied stated they weren’t “experts” but were still willing to help as best they could.

Adaneshade.2409:

He asked for help with understanding thief gameplay. Mostly what I see is “QQ I died to a thief” on threads.
I answer every post I see with legitimate questions like “How do I improve?”. Has nothing to do with being an"expert" or not.

PS. - As you can see, most people who replied stated they weren’t “experts” but were still willing to help as best they could.

Indeed.

15 char

Red Falcon.8257:

Thief with 15k kills here.
Here is a build that is easy to remember yet quite effective; once he learned this he can start to learn more advanced builds.

And then u post the build. You should probably tell him that this build is more or less standard to veteran thieves. I played for like month or so, got the basics but what u just linked is HARD to play right, especially if he takes that build in sPVP. Only blinding power as a stealth utility works if he masters the use of shadow step – which is an instinctual utility skill to say the least.

If you want a stealth build.. (i.e. Permastealth) I would think dagger/pistol is best way. Thieves are more about the weapons than necessarily the full build. (Although that does matter). Black powder, and heartseeker gives stealth and an attack that doesn’t break stealth, and sets you up for a backstab. You will need a bit of initiative, so at least 15 in trickery. If you want to use stealth for constant regen then at least 10 shadow arts. For condition removal 20.

This can gimp damage though. Which means if you want to keep your initiative up grab at least 20 in crit (signets).

There are a bunch of ways to play this. Either have your gear determine damage, 30 shadow, 20 acro, 20 trickery. Grabbing most of the initiative using skills. (initiative on stealth, for more attack happy beats out regen initiative in stealth) (Build is more tanky, healish)

Or else you can grab more power/damage build with 25 deadly, 30 crit, 15 trickery. This probably takes more skill and dagger dagger is better for this build. This is just an example.

Or anywhere in between.

Cloak and Dagger is good for stealth, the problem is.. it does have a small castbar, which is why it is best when used with steal. It can be dodged, evaded, blind etc. It costs high initiative, not as much as black powder/hs, but blackpowder does a blind on the guy, then you stealth and if close enough hit with a heartseeker. This leaves your steal open, if you want to mug/or stealth on steal.

If you are experienced with a thief hitting cloak and dagger is not super hard. But if you aren’t a guaranteed stealth isn’t bad, aside from your utilities, and heal. If you want to be all stealth you can even use the shadowtrap, which sets you up almost perfect for a backstab. But I would recommend shadowstep as a stunbreak, unless you drain initiative then roll for initiative is ok.. but it lacks the ability to choose where to jump to, and the 3 condition removal.

Pure stealth builds aren’t great for damage.. but survival they are ok. Sword to me seems best, that or dagger/dagger condition with malice signet.

If you want a truly annoying thief build, dagger/dagger (x2) with energy on each set other signet can be what fits you. Runes dwayna. 20 shad arts, 30 acro, 20 trickery. Using the roll back heal, roll for initiative, precision signet, and another utility (the shadowstep signet is ok for extra init, caltrops to do a bit of damage, blinding powder/shadow refuge for quick heal but situational)

Shad: Have the regen on stealthing allies, remove condition in stealth,

Acro:vigor on heal, regain initiative, and initiative used heals

Trick:release blinding powder when 10% of life in 1 hit, stealing removes boons/gives vigor. (or caltrops on dodge instead of those 2)

Dodge around, death blossom spam, use heal every 15 sec, steal with charged cloak and dagger to remove conditions. Switch weapons, or pop signet for more dodge, roll for initiative for death blossom spam. Its easy and you are almost un-hittable, and its not really a big stealth build. When you are hit for large damage you auto stealth, when you get low on health you auto stealth.. so it is super annoying.

Wolfield.9812:

Dagger Dagger, Cloak and Dagger 5# move. Count 3 seconds, rinse and repeat.

Blinding powder.

Heal.

Shadow Refuge.

30 crits, 30 shadow arts (crit 100% out of stealth), 10 for mug.

Wont be instant killing people, but nice damage and damage taking in wvwvw. Lots of stealth. Lasts 4 seconds longer. Heals you. 25% health go into it. 2 stealth moves on the utilities. 1 stealth move on heal. Repeatable stealth move on attack in melee range.

If you want condition damage, look at pistol dagger. And use the same move and utilites above with different traits, armours, runes, sigils.

Shortbow as second weapon always for a new player, quick escape and quick movement, nice aoe damage if you are scared to get involved in the fight.

You play with your mesmer in wvwvw with him, and his blinding powder can stealth you and your clones adding to the confusion.

Stealth stops, stealth res, daggerstorm for aoe to reflect projectiles or basalisk venom for a nice stun.

Not any good with thief but decent information, much more available if you spend the 5 mins i took to wrote this to look through the thief forums here.

He said Expert thief advice only.

Shadow Refuge sucks, it gets interrupted all the time. Use withdraw instead. You’re not going to cloak and dagger anyone to death unless they’re a beginner who doesn’t know how to play. 100% crit out of stealth trait is a bad choice as well because you should have at least 67% crit rate anyways without fury buff, that comes up to a walloping 87% minimal crit rate when playing with support toons. and easily pushed even higher with a sigil of perception. Don’t build for condition damage either, that’s the slowest and requires the most effort (read: button pushing) to do anything. Shortbow not good at long range, you want to use it up close and personal where you can spam off 3-7 cluster bombs as fast as you can. Important to get the condition removal trait in the shadow tree. learn to cook, and make omnomberry pies or ghosts. never enter a big fight without them.

How the hell did your “friend” get to level 80 without learning how to stealth?! The very first heal skill you get is Hide in Shadows which stealths you for 3 seconds untraited… that’s just ridiculous.

Did “he” ever think to read skill descriptions too? Wow…

Grizledorf.5290:

Shadow Refuge sucks, it gets interrupted all the time. Use withdraw instead. You’re not going to cloak and dagger anyone to death unless they’re a beginner who doesn’t know how to play. 100% crit out of stealth trait is a bad choice as well because you should have at least 67% crit rate anyways without fury buff, that comes up to a walloping 87% minimal crit rate when playing with support toons. and easily pushed even higher with a sigil of perception. Don’t build for condition damage either, that’s the slowest and requires the most effort (read: button pushing) to do anything. Shortbow not good at long range, you want to use it up close and personal where you can spam off 3-7 cluster bombs as fast as you can. Important to get the condition removal trait in the shadow tree. learn to cook, and make omnomberry pies or ghosts. never enter a big fight without them.

This is the worst advice I’ve ever read from a Thief.

Your friend needs to learn how to be mobile as well. In a game where everyone can move and attack its especially important for thief to remain literally one step ahead of whatever he’s in combat with.

With a daggers build he needs to assess whats going on and stealth out with cloak and dagger when he starts taking damage. That way he can get as much damage as possible before taking too much. (Pro tip: thieves have one of the worst defense health pools in the game, don’t let the medium armor fool you) shadow refuge, Assassin’s signet and either scorpion wire or skale venom is what i like to use as abilities.

With a pistols build the only options for stealth are blinding powder (which i recommend with pistols), shadow refuge, and of course hide and shadows (the only heal thieves need) With pistols typically you want to stealth when someone gets close, then run out of range, or trade a few blows from behind and reset with another stealth. However, blinding powder and unload make a very effective combo as it blinds enemies for pretty much the duration of the attack.

Mixed dagger/pistol are good crowd controls with either snares and stealth or blinds and interrupts, but lack a bit on damage when compared to the prior 2 builds.

Shortbow is useful for condition damage builds (and arguably the only way its “effective”) and any most other builds. But like pistol no option to stealth.

As for traits, i would recommend learning stealth with the shadow arts and trickery tree, not the most damage, but have to learn how to crawl before you can stealth… or something like that.

Nornil.7026:

My question to you Thieves expert is what build should he use.
In which abilities he should apply his trait points and what weapons work best.
Right now he is only using 2 pistols and 2 daggers.

First things first:
Lose one of the sets and get a Shortbow. That’s the only weapon that no Thief should be without.

As for an invis-heavy build, offhand Dagger is usually the way to go. You can offhand Pistol and leap finisher through it (comboing Stealth for yourself), but the duration is shorter than C&D (Dagger 5 skill).

Also, for this comment:

With a pistols build the only options for stealth are blinding powder (which i recommend with pistols), shadow refuge, and of course hide and shadows (the only heal thieves need)

I disagree. Sure, the extra Invis and short regen is nice, but the CD vs. total heal it gives you makes it less effective in WvW than Withdraw. My opinion at least.

As for traits, it depends on what you’re trying to do. I run an Apothecary armor set with Carrion jewelry. P/D condition damage build, 10/0/30/0/30 with skills:
6- Withdraw
7- Shadowstep
8- Blinding Powder
9- Shadow Refuge
0- (depends)

Very invis-heavy. Heal up to nearly full every time I go invis, which is often if I use C&D as my main Stealth skill and the Utilities as backups. Not as gimmicky, very lethal, very durable.

On a side note, how much crit rate should a thief have? (D/D) I’m aiming at around 100% crit dmg. I want to optimize enough crit rate and crit dmg (and power) and put everything else in vit and toughness.

I hit 94% with fury (my runes and stuff aren’t precision major), you probably can hit 80-90% with with precision and foods then just ask a friendly warrior to keep fury for you then you’re all set.

I honestly believe the best way to learn how to play a thief is to just go into sPvP and stay there for at least 15 ranks. in that time your friend would have tried out plenty of options and builds and runes and sigils and be happy with their preferred play style.

However, my personal opinion is that condition builds are more forgiving in general and Pistol/Dagger as main set forces heavy stealth use so the learning curve is fast if stealth is the main problem.