Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone! I main Mesmer, but was hoping a few helpful thieves could answer a question about their classes’ upcoming changes.

I know a lot of thieves are complaining about the upcoming s/d nerf, but I’m having trouble understanding why it’s considered much of a nerf.

As I understand it, they just shifted the initiative cost for flanking/larcenous strike so that the first costs 1 more, the 2nd costs 1 less. To me, that seems like it would just require you to have at least 4 initiative to start the combo, rather than 3, though the overall cost is the same.

I’m not saying this isn’t a nerf. I’m just trying to understand why many people think it will kill the s/d spec. Any help would be appreciated!

Its not that I guess. The problem comes with the change to flanking strike. Namely it wont change to LS if it hits no target. Now you can use it without a target, then precast LS and teleport to your target to make it land. (LS has a really long animation to it, so its much more problematic to land it without precasting.) After patch, U’ll have to engage first which will negate your burst (LS+Sigil procs+Mug+AA).

Ah, I hadn’t realized that part of the change. So will the initial burst of a s/d thief be about half of what it is now?

No, it wont be cut in half. Just a little less (15-25%* max I’d say – as the ‘mug+AA+sigils’ part of it will remain the same). But you not only use LS in your opener. Whenever it was used without hitting a target, it made LS available. After patch it, wont. Basically it’ll be harder to make LS appear on your action bar at all, and once it still does it’ll be harder to land it.

• Some1 more knowledgeable could confirm that pls.

Before I always tried to let FS hit me, and save my dodge for the LS/AA. Now it seems like dodging FS would always be best, as it makes them lose the initiative and they can’t follow up with LS and you should be out of range for an AA.

I can definitely understand why that’s a nerf now.

S/d has taken huge nerfs with out compensation !

plz buff S/d before making more changes ….

S/d is a really easy build to take out if u are a condi mesmer …..

sword has cleave …. and u will hit there clones … stacking conditions on u

d/d is single target !…. with lots of condition remove :S !!!

The changes to S/D basically open up more options to shut down the S/D other than just hard cc.

Without playtesting it, I would imagine if you were able to avoid 2-3 flanking strikes, then the thief will be overcommiting and most likely will have to back off.

You can block it, you can blind it, you can dodge it, as well as hard CC’ing (which includes knockbacks, knockdowns, stuns, dazes, fears, etc) it in order to stop the main source of damage from an S/D thief – larcenous strike. Three other forms of CC, because of withdraw, will still be somewhat ineffective.

Will a mesmer still require good positioning? Yes – which is a good thing. I fear the day when a mesmer doesn’t have to worry about his positioning and a thief and can just do his damage freely from 1.2k range away.

However now it should be easier for the mesmer (or any other source of ranged support dps) to survive against an S/D thief. It will probably be a good change to the weaponset overall.

I’m glad that this change is occurring though, as I think it will make many glassy builds more viable for other classes, and hopefully move the meta of s/tPvP away from bunker-ier classes.

However I do agree thieves deserve some sort of compensation.

Eleivo.2761:

I’m glad that this change is occurring though, as I think it will make many glassy builds more viable for other classes, and hopefully move the meta of s/tPvP away from bunker-ier classes.

In my opinion, other zerker builds defeat were more a product of anet balancing than the thief class. Power ranger, like many other specs, was nerfed to uselessness when quickness was changed and, more importantly, their 5 points into beastmastery was changed. Rapid fire had unreliable damage in the first place, but with quickness + a pet cc it became reliable. Without it, it was crap. Barrage, with its long cast time, was just screaming, “kill me!” without quickness. On top of this, pet damage was later nerfed because of the unkillable beastmastery build that was brokenly popular. Birds could hit for 8k on their f2 attack. Unfortunately this change to pet damage came with no changes to the responsiveness of pets. The 100 nades build that was popular for the engie was also heavily nerfed. Kit refinement and static discharge were cornerstones of the build, but anet changed how they functioned. Thief also got nerfed with mug, but their damage was still reliable – unlike the other specs.

Regardless, thieves prey upon those who can operate at 1.2k range – which I think is actually healthy for the game as it promotes good positioning and can force the thief drastically out of position as well. There are some issues with S/D though because it is incredibly hard to get them to peel away from their target. This change should make it easier.

i really hope with this change …
they will make a small buff to the acrobatic trait line to improve condition removal !

in the ever increasing condition meta

caveman.5840:

S/d has taken huge nerfs with out compensation !
plz buff S/d before making more changes ….
S/d is a really easy build to take out if u are a condi mesmer …..
sword has cleave …. and u will hit there clones … stacking conditions on u
d/d is single target !…. with lots of condition remove :S !!!

After the patch clone death can be evaded/blinded(still unsure who to blind for this to effect)/blocked so thief’s pistol whip works better on Blackwater mesmer builds now.

i bet u will need to blind each clone ‘_’

i have a feeling that it’s the clones that will be blinded.

as for the S/D nerf, you can still land the full burst, if you charge basilisk venom beforehand. you precast FS, steal, the FS will connect, and you have enough time to land larcenous while the enemy is stunned by the venom.

It’s a double-edged sword (no pun intended).

It can allow for very skilled S/D players to pretty much return to the permanent evasion builds they used to have before FS/LS was a two-part skill, allowing for many consecutive dodges.

What it will do is nerf the S/D 3-spammers who win by a high scaling second part of the skill pre-casted to initialize boon stealing/burst during a mug and free evasion immediately after followed again by boon stealing and high damage throughputs.

I’m calling it too early to make judgments now. We’ll have to see how hitboxes interact with FS and if someone skilled attempts the evasion build again.