Guild Wars 2

Hey all!
I’ve been maining Thief, mostly in WvW and some sPvP for 3 years now, with over 3k hours on it. I’ve recently been absent(3 months) and I’ve come back to the new patch, only to find I’m lost, gameplay-wise.
I used to run a balanced/sustain build with SA, 3pts for Feline Grace and CS. But now I feel completely useless.

My HP has dropped from my 17k with Valk armor to around 13-14k. Full zerk goes down to 12k. And considering how everyone feels so bursty, I’m having a hard time countering anything or anyone. The burns(and Guardian symbols), the Mesmers stealth, invul, condi’s and 1 combo burst, rapid fire keeps tracking after stealth.

I’m not looking to complain, just trying to understand what I need to shift in my gameplay. I’m also having a hard time raiding with my guild, I’m usually on focus squad calling out backline targets. As soon as I 5+2+BV+Steal+BS, and go in for the kill, I get so easily focused and downed, I just can’t get out. Even with SS, the dazes/stuns, I end up SSing back to my orginal position, in downed state.

Is it just me not positioning myself correctly, and going for the wrong targets? I feel the lack of FG really hurts me too.. What about condi removal? The time I take to get into stealth and wait 3 secs, is the time for a burn to down me. D/P suddenly feels too slow, especially the 5+2 stealth combo. Also, the Thief’s 0.75 skill delay seems to make it worse.
Hoping no one takes this as just complaining, just looking to understand how everyone manages to counter, kill and live another day, because to be honest I’ve been getting rekt, and before I feel I had win % well over 50.
Also, don’t tell me to re-roll, I’m a Thief at heart, I’ve adapted throughout the last 3 years, I want to do so again, I can’t main any other classes, although I have played them occasionally just to learn their side.

Thanks!

the only thing i could provide you with is a DD build that has been working great for me, but even with that, thief stays somewhat underpowered compared to everything else

Good to see someone trying to adapt instead of complain!

There are several things that changed in the june 23 patch that seems to be the cause of your problem.

The first thing is that stats were removed from trait lines and rolled into party base stats and party gear stats. Since thiefs usually don’t run with vitality on all their gear, this is a loss in our health pool. Same goes for toughness and healing power.

Secondly, conditions like burning are currently a bit overtuned in most opinions – they were changed to stack like bleeding instead of in duration. This means, that you can actually get to 8k ticks of burning in a few seconds, especially guardians or engineeer.
All power based builds seems to be stronger aswell (goes for thief too, try using DA, CS and TR and you will see a great increase in your damage compared to pre-patch). This obviously means you will die easier to enemy burst.

Thirdly, thief took a hit to their survivability from traits. Shadow’s Embrace were nerfed, and Cloaked in Shadows + Shadow’s rejuvenation got moved to same tier, so you can’t take both (the last one is quite a hit to D/D thiefs). Also, Acrobatics took a big hit, especially due to Feline Grace being nerfed to Vigor for 2 seconds. Furthermore, Vigor got halfed in effect (through you get it to be 75% if you use acrobatics). And you no longer get ini back when going stealth if you used to trait that (it was removed).

Now, how do you proceed with your thief? Well, Valk armor is obviously an easy way to regain some lost health. You also need to think of changing your build. You can only choose 3 lines, but you get to max all 3 out. If you are uncertain about builds I’d advice to just read all the traits to see what changed, use MetaBattle or PM me and I’ll help

Now, the hard truth is, that you will have a harder time on your thief right now, especially if you try S/D which relied heavily on Acrobatics, but it’s still playable. It seems like D/P is the way to go for most thiefs, but I’ve seen an increase in D/D thiefs around, while S/D are much more rare as far as I’ve seen. D/P DA SA TR seems to be the current meta for PvP, and should work in WvW too. Some people like CS too through, and some even still use Acrobatics. Try it all yourself, maybe non-meta will fit your playstyle better.

Another thing I’d advice is looking at the profession forums and reading the patch note to see what changed for other professions. For example, it’s never been more important to avoid a mesmers shatter combo. Try to use headshot or steal interrupt on channeled skills instead of just going stealth. Remember what traits were nerfed, but also which one got buffed (TR is a really great line, I’d advice you always take it).
Also, you need to think more about your ini, since you can’t trait for ini back on stealth.

And remember to embrace the oldest and nobelst of our traditions; you must fight, to run away. (Quote: Jack Sparrow).

For roaming with DP in today’s game I choose a different trait set up then what I duel/pvp with

For WvW, I’ve been running a Carrion D/D SB deception focused build with DA Tr and SA specs. I use krait runes for the extra bleed duration.

It’s working for me. Although players with 100% golem buff damage bug in WvW this week can still one-shot me.

I’ll add that the golem buff/event is making current WvW play even more bursty, so it seems worse than it is.

That said, I know my sustained build for WvW (Knight’s armor, D/P) went to hell with the patch due to damage and condi buffs + thief defense nerfs. I honestly have not found any power-based thief build with any kind of viable tankiness & sustain post-patch in WvW.

Either play more glass-cannon, in & out dodge/stealthy, or try Carrion/Dire condition builds for extra tankiness.

Edit: If you’re having issues with condi-cleanse, you may want to try out Hide in Shadows with the 20% Deception cooldown trait (yes, over Shadow’s Embrace) + Improvisation. They made it a Deception, so you get it at least every 24 seconds, cleansing the big condi bursts pretty well, especially with Shadowstep as a back-up, also benefiting from reduced CDR.

Thank you all for the great responses and advice!
I’m now running D/P+SB, CS TR and SA, with Valk armor, focusing on a fury oriented build with runes of rage.

I’m doing better, but still feel there are some classes/situations I need to avoid, especially mesmers. Thief vs Thief seems to be burst or be bursted, with the first one to engage to win. I tend to initiate fights with guardians just to feel how is easy I can take him, but I end up getting countered with invul’s, blocks and either symbols or burns.

Some stuff definitely needs to be toned down, and possibly some Thief defenses buffed, as I don’t feel we’re on par with other classes, even without the idea of skill-based gameplay.
I have no problems with my damage(6-9k BS’s) and okay with my HP(18k with guard stacks and some food). I’m really thinking there’s just some lack of Thief defenses when it comes to countering, such as no invulnerability skill like other classes.

Ah, one other note- the devs said they were getting rid of all guard stacks in the not-so-distant future.

Losing that extra 2500 hp will hurt the lowest HP tier the most, which includes us.

Placebo Effect.4508:

Ah, one other note- the devs said they were getting rid of all guard stacks in the not-so-distant future.

Losing that extra 2500 hp will hurt the lowest HP tier the most, which includes us.

What?? Really? Oh no…. Well, as long as it actually gets FIXED/BALANCED. I feel for the current way things are, my base 14k is way too low.

Rezok.2709:

Good to see someone trying to adapt instead of complain!

There are several things that changed in the june 23 patch that seems to be the cause of your problem.

The first thing is that stats were removed from trait lines and rolled into party base stats and party gear stats. Since thiefs usually don’t run with vitality on all their gear, this is a loss in our health pool. Same goes for toughness and healing power.

Secondly, conditions like burning are currently a bit overtuned in most opinions – they were changed to stack like bleeding instead of in duration. This means, that you can actually get to 8k ticks of burning in a few seconds, especially guardians or engineeer.
All power based builds seems to be stronger aswell (goes for thief too, try using DA, CS and TR and you will see a great increase in your damage compared to pre-patch). This obviously means you will die easier to enemy burst.

Thirdly, thief took a hit to their survivability from traits. Shadow’s Embrace were nerfed, and Cloaked in Shadows + Shadow’s rejuvenation got moved to same tier, so you can’t take both (the last one is quite a hit to D/D thiefs). Also, Acrobatics took a big hit, especially due to Feline Grace being nerfed to Vigor for 2 seconds. Furthermore, Vigor got halfed in effect (through you get it to be 75% if you use acrobatics). And you no longer get ini back when going stealth if you used to trait that (it was removed).

Now, how do you proceed with your thief? Well, Valk armor is obviously an easy way to regain some lost health. You also need to think of changing your build. You can only choose 3 lines, but you get to max all 3 out. If you are uncertain about builds I’d advice to just read all the traits to see what changed, use MetaBattle or PM me and I’ll help

Now, the hard truth is, that you will have a harder time on your thief right now, especially if you try S/D which relied heavily on Acrobatics, but it’s still playable. It seems like D/P is the way to go for most thiefs, but I’ve seen an increase in D/D thiefs around, while S/D are much more rare as far as I’ve seen. D/P DA SA TR seems to be the current meta for PvP, and should work in WvW too. Some people like CS too through, and some even still use Acrobatics. Try it all yourself, maybe non-meta will fit your playstyle better.

Another thing I’d advice is looking at the profession forums and reading the patch note to see what changed for other professions. For example, it’s never been more important to avoid a mesmers shatter combo. Try to use headshot or steal interrupt on channeled skills instead of just going stealth. Remember what traits were nerfed, but also which one got buffed (TR is a really great line, I’d advice you always take it).
Also, you need to think more about your ini, since you can’t trait for ini back on stealth.

And remember to embrace the oldest and nobelst of our traditions; you must fight, to run away. (Quote: Jack Sparrow).

Thanks so much for getting me mostly up to speed! I’ve been trying to do my research as well, and seems I’m not the only thief having a hard time atm

EragamerLG.2390:

Hey all!
I’ve been maining Thief, mostly in WvW and some sPvP for 3 years now, with over 3k hours on it. I’ve recently been absent(3 months) and I’ve come back to the new patch, only to find I’m lost, gameplay-wise.
I used to run a balanced/sustain build with SA, 3pts for Feline Grace and CS. But now I feel completely useless.

My HP has dropped from my 17k with Valk armor to around 13-14k. Full zerk goes down to 12k. And considering how everyone feels so bursty, I’m having a hard time countering anything or anyone. The burns(and Guardian symbols), the Mesmers stealth, invul, condi’s and 1 combo burst, rapid fire keeps tracking after stealth.

I’m not looking to complain, just trying to understand what I need to shift in my gameplay. I’m also having a hard time raiding with my guild, I’m usually on focus squad calling out backline targets. As soon as I 5+2+BV+Steal+BS, and go in for the kill, I get so easily focused and downed, I just can’t get out. Even with SS, the dazes/stuns, I end up SSing back to my orginal position, in downed state.

Is it just me not positioning myself correctly, and going for the wrong targets? I feel the lack of FG really hurts me too.. What about condi removal? The time I take to get into stealth and wait 3 secs, is the time for a burn to down me. D/P suddenly feels too slow, especially the 5+2 stealth combo. Also, the Thief’s 0.75 skill delay seems to make it worse.
Hoping no one takes this as just complaining, just looking to understand how everyone manages to counter, kill and live another day, because to be honest I’ve been getting rekt, and before I feel I had win % well over 50.
Also, don’t tell me to re-roll, I’m a Thief at heart, I’ve adapted throughout the last 3 years, I want to do so again, I can’t main any other classes, although I have played them occasionally just to learn their side.

Thanks!

I’m taking a break form the game until things improve. Pop in the forums now and again to see if any progress has been made — glad for people like this that ask the question, but unfortunately based on the responses here it seems everything still kinda sucks.

Good luck to those keeping with it.

Hi Era ! (it’s Mess) talk to me ingame I can help you.