They just need to increase the vigor duration or something along those lines really, otherwise, even acro thanks to Hard to Catch w/o the random ports and DPS wise. Thieves got more buffs than nerfs, we hit kitten hard now.
Scrubio
Plays completely opposite professions to his main Teef.
our vigor traited is 75% of what the normal vigor used to be and it sucks hard doesnt even matter if we have perma vigor. it should at least be back to 100% or 120% to be decent.
Right now its really bad the only good thing its Hard to Catch that fill up ur endurance bar
A fresh perspective….A bowl of Orrian Truffel and Meat stew….100% percent Might on crit; 40% increase to endurance gain. I am s/d; cs, trick, acro gets me base power 2571; 1157 ferocity, furious sharpening stone, add steal(+250 ferocity)….i am hitting AA criticala closing in on 9k. 8441 was a Crippling Strike in WVW in a less than zerg situation. I am just waiting to be nerfed as a thf now…lol
Despite the fact that it looked like a change that rewarded skillful gameplay, the ners to vigour make Feline Grace worthless…
I’ll dearly miss you buddy! :’(
R.I.Pepperoni Feline Grace, you were nerfed because people thought we dodged too much.
I will avenge you with Shadow Arts.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Also found that feline grace is now dead. I decided to experiment with shadow arts line and I didn’t notice any less dodges compared to acro line
Yeah, it wouldn’t really feel different if you’re already in trickery. With bountiful theft and SoH, you already have 50% uptime on vigor. Assuming you start from 0 endurance, you’ll recharge about 3 dodges in the CD of steal or 130 endurance total. With endless stamina alone, you get 142 endurance. Since you start with 0 endurance in this example, the most you could activate FG is 3 times, keeping vigor up for 16 seconds receiving a total of 165 endurance in the 21 second period. Assuming you do everything perfectly, feline grace and endless stamina result in only 35 more endurance every 21 seconds.
The old feline grace front loaded your dodges allowing it to be useful in short fights. The new FG+ES is a mediocre improvement that’s only seen with excellent play over protracted fights.
P.S. throwing in dagger autoattack’s endurance gain further detracts from the feeling of usefulness
Also found that feline grace is now dead. I decided to experiment with shadow arts line and I didn’t notice any less dodges compared to acro line
Yeah, it wouldn’t really feel different if you’re already in trickery. With bountiful theft and SoH, you already have 50% uptime on vigor. Assuming you start from 0 endurance, you’ll recharge about 3 dodges in the CD of steal or 130 endurance total. With endless stamina alone, you get 142 endurance. Since you start with 0 endurance in this example, the most you could activate FG is 3 times, keeping vigor up for 16 seconds receiving a total of 165 endurance in the 21 second period. Assuming you do everything perfectly, feline grace and endless stamina result in only 35 more endurance every 21 seconds.
The old feline grace front loaded your dodges allowing it to be useful in short fights. The new FG+ES is a mediocre improvement that’s only seen with excellent play over protracted fights.
P.S. throwing in dagger autoattack’s endurance gain further detracts from the feeling of usefulness
Also found that feline grace is now dead. I decided to experiment with shadow arts line and I didn’t notice any less dodges compared to acro line
Yeah, it wouldn’t really feel different if you’re already in trickery. With bountiful theft and SoH, you already have 50% uptime on vigor. Assuming you start from 0 endurance, you’ll recharge about 3 dodges in the CD of steal or 130 endurance total. With endless stamina alone, you get 142 endurance. Since you start with 0 endurance in this example, the most you could activate FG is 3 times, keeping vigor up for 16 seconds receiving a total of 165 endurance in the 21 second period. Assuming you do everything perfectly, feline grace and endless stamina result in only 35 more endurance every 21 seconds.
The old feline grace front loaded your dodges allowing it to be useful in short fights. The new FG+ES is a mediocre improvement that’s only seen with excellent play over protracted fights.
P.S. throwing in dagger autoattack’s endurance gain further detracts from the feeling of usefulness
As a dual pistol user, I feel your pain. But fret not, my friend, because dual pistols have been rendered useless, so there’s no need for feline grace! All is right in Tyria!
Also found that feline grace is now dead. I decided to experiment with shadow arts line and I didn’t notice any less dodges compared to acro line
Yeah, it wouldn’t really feel different if you’re already in trickery. With bountiful theft and SoH, you already have 50% uptime on vigor. Assuming you start from 0 endurance, you’ll recharge about 3 dodges in the CD of steal or 130 endurance total. With endless stamina alone, you get 142 endurance. Since you start with 0 endurance in this example, the most you could activate FG is 3 times, keeping vigor up for 16 seconds receiving a total of 165 endurance in the 21 second period. Assuming you do everything perfectly, feline grace and endless stamina result in only 35 more endurance every 21 seconds.
The old feline grace front loaded your dodges allowing it to be useful in short fights. The new FG+ES is a mediocre improvement that’s only seen with excellent play over protracted fights.
P.S. throwing in dagger autoattack’s endurance gain further detracts from the feeling of usefulness
Thanks for doing the math on this, Maugetarr!
You’re welcome. There’s something I wanted to add that I thought about since then. Keep in mind I’ve only taken a cursory look at this so I might have missed something.
If you take crit strikes over acro, you can also trait signets of power while taking signet of agility. While this only reduces the recharge by 6 seconds, that could mean the difference between a signet being recharged at the beginning of the next fight or not. Also, reduced recharge takes it from essentially 3.33 endurance a second to 4.16. That’s a 21ish% improvement in that signet. So let’s revisit the original hypothetical and just normalize everything per second. If the CS thief slots SoA and traits SoP, he could achieve an average of 10.31 endurance a second. The acro thief (without SoA) can have an average endurance regeneration of 7.76. With SoA (at 30 second recharge) he has an average of 11.09 endurance per second. That means traiting in acro and taking SoA, you only end up with a 7.5% better endurance regen than simply taking a traited SoA in CS. This assumes that you always trigger FG also. The numbers would skew more favorably towards acro if HtC gets triggered also, but you have to get stunned while at 0 endurance to gain the entire benefit from it (and you don’t have control over the auto-proc). Both of these thieves were running standard trickery line.
Anyway, like I’ve said before, the marginal defensive gains from acro are nothing compared to the damage you lose by traiting out of CS (which was 16.5% more effective power for my particular setup).
The numbers are really interesting… Might give it another try. Perhaps we’re just not used to the new version of it.
I just personally loved how it would instantly restore 33% back, allowing you to essentially get 3 dodges in.
I mean, you can if you want to, but the trickery line is doing most of the work for acrobatics. If you aren’t proccing FG with weapon evades, FG + ES is only netting you a total of 7.5 endurance per evasion over standard endurance regen and 2.5 endurance over standard vigor. The benefits of FG were cut in half and it doesn’t stack anymore. Trickery is really doing all the heavy lifting now. That’s why DA/CS/T is so close to DA/A/T.
ya LOL Feline grace is probably be the most useless trait in game. each successful dodge only grants 2secs of vigor? and guess what? it has internal cooldown good Trololololling there Anet
Also found that feline grace is now dead. I decided to experiment with shadow arts line and I didn’t notice any less dodges compared to acro line
Yeah, it wouldn’t really feel different if you’re already in trickery. With bountiful theft and SoH, you already have 50% uptime on vigor. Assuming you start from 0 endurance, you’ll recharge about 3 dodges in the CD of steal or 130 endurance total. With endless stamina alone, you get 142 endurance. Since you start with 0 endurance in this example, the most you could activate FG is 3 times, keeping vigor up for 16 seconds receiving a total of 165 endurance in the 21 second period. Assuming you do everything perfectly, feline grace and endless stamina result in only 35 more endurance every 21 seconds.
The old feline grace front loaded your dodges allowing it to be useful in short fights. The new FG+ES is a mediocre improvement that’s only seen with excellent play over protracted fights.
P.S. throwing in dagger autoattack’s endurance gain further detracts from the feeling of usefulness
Good post. Acro line needs work or else it just too niche. vriety of builds plummets.
