Guild Wars 2

I run with D/D and S/P, with a build 0/0/30/20/20. I’m aiming for a stealth-based, high mobility thief. My initial goal is to fight within the midst of a zerg – but still enough versatility to roam, scout, and flip camps solo.

And no. I’m not a perma-stealth thief, nor do I want to be . :/ You can’t kill people if you’re in perma stealth…I like a challenge. I want to be the annoying stealthy ’can’t catch me’ thief. Right now in zerg fights, I mostly pick off stragglers that get too close, fight along the perimeter of the zerg, or attack one person in a group and jump back.

1. What utility skills would compliment my traits and weapons? I experiment a lot, but as of now, I have Assassin’s Signet, Roll for Initiative (or Scorpion Wire), and Shadow Refuge. I’m not too sure on which elite skill to rely on. Basilisk venom seems best for roaming, and dagger storm for zerging. I played with smoke screen for awhile and really liked it – but I don’t see many other thieves using it. Is it not favored for WvW?

2. Someone informed me that pistol whip will have its stun nerfed, but I did not find anything about that in the Dec 10 changes. True or not? As much as I like sword, I already struggle trying to stun my opponent with 3 and 4 S/P. They just…don’t seem effective.

3. I use Rune of Infiltration now, but would there be a more suitable rune? I have sigils of force and bloodlust for weapons.

4. I can’t choose if I want to focus on condition damage or critical attacks. Seeing as I got points in trickery, going condition would make more sense. Which would you advise?

5. I don’t care about the limit distance that will be added to infiltrator, but I can’t find a suitable way to start it off while stealthed (and use Tactical Strike). With D/D I can combo with Heartseeker. Is shadowstep utility the only method to jump to someone with a stealthed sword? I just have a habit of wanting to keep my shadowstep as a stunbreaker, instead of a fight initiator.

The sword…doesn’t feel like a stealthy weapon like the dagger. I think I’m doing something incorrectly. Help me out here? I don’t want to switch to D/P because…too many use it. I really want to master sword skills as a thief.

6. How badly do I ‘need’ refuge in a zerg fight? I feel like it’s only great for roaming or escaping (and reviving downed people). There’s so many neat utility skills to use as a thief…

7. ….I don’t sound like the hated perma-stealth thief, do I? Please say I don’t…I’ll give you a cookie.

8. There’s been one too many times when I’m in a zerg when flipping points, I stand around and just watch because…I can’t do anything helpful. I’m not tanky to stand at the gate, and I have practically no range to attack the wall. All I can do is stand away and scout. Is…this normal for a thief? I don’t like not doing anything… Sure, I get people that try to run into the keep, but…everybody does.

9. ……how do you catch other roaming thieves that run away from me? Come back…I wanna fight you….

10. …So I learned that a thief is quite successful with leaping from a wall and killing someone. Also pretty reliable in destroying siege. Any tips and advice to make better use of this tactic?

Thanks for reading this wall of text. I am still learning WvW with my thief, but I’m really enjoying it. ^^

0. I don’t know if 0/0/30/20/20 is a very good build, I may be wrong of course. If u go D/D, the standard x/30/30/x/x cookie cutter build is still the best. But if your build suits you, stick with it then.

1. Heal: Withdraw or HiS, Utility: Assasin’s signet, Shadowstep and Shadow Refuge, Elite: Doesn’t matter all are good

2. S/P doesn’t go all that well with your build since you don’t have any points in Deadly Arts and Critical Strikes so the damage is not that great. You can however try to use #5 and #4 for damage mitigation and CC.

3. Runes: I have Traveler runes, which let’s me swap my Assassin’s signet out for another utility skill such as Infiltrator’s signet or Blinding Powder

4. If u want to go conditions P/D is a much better weapon choice. There are enough builds on the forums for condi thief.

5. Use your steal if u need to close the gap between you and the target.

6. Don’t refuge in the middle of the fight to revive since it’s an indicator where enemies need to drop their AoE. Most people will run to the back of the group if they are about to die, use it there to safely revive them

7. Since you aren’t using D/P, you can’t be a perma-stealth thief

8. Thiefs are one of the most useless classes when it comes to zerging. The #2 on SB is very good for blast finishers. Thiefs are good at picking of overextended targets swell, but other than that not that much you can do really

9. Depends on what the other thief is running in terms of utility, weapons, … and what you’re running. Some thieves are simply impossible to catch up to, that’s how it goes.
If u want good mobility use Heartseeker, Infiltrator’s Signet and Shadowstep to quickly close the gap

10. Best option to do is use your SB and stand on the wall rather then going down to the enemies, since you can get overrun quite easily

Hope that helped and look forward to maybe see you in WvW one day

The traits you’re running would be better suited to a P/D spec IMO, as that would give you blind on stealth & regen for sustain, plenty of stealth for sneak attack to bleed and a ton of dodges. It’s a lot of fun and def fit’s the troll spec you’re looking for, might be worth a look

As for your specific questions, what azerte said is great advice, here’s a few thoughts:

1) Shadowstep is practically mandatory for WvW, dagger storm is great for killing rangers and rifle warriors that are too stupid to stop shooting you :P

3) I also use traveler runes (as I expect most WvW thieves do these days), runes of speed are good if you’re low on cash and want the move speed, ogre and lyssa can both be pretty useful too. It depends what you think would benefit your play style most.

5) Again what azerte said, if you’re running dagger offhand you can cast CnD then steal midway through the animation to get a stealth & damage out of nowhere, plus set you up for a sneak attack. You might enjoy S/D for that reason.

Btw, if you take the steal range trait from trickery then this is even more effective, as it’s not often used you can catch people out by engaging sooner than they think you can

6) Unless you’re fighting a melee class and you use the blind on stealth trait, refuging in a zerg is a horrible idea. Use shadow step first to put some distance between you and the zerg if possible. This also works in reverse though, you can actually put down the refuge behind you if you’re in stealth and people will swing their swords in the circle hitting nothing as you leg it.

As for ressing, use with extreme caution. The amount of thieves I’ve backstabbed because I see them go in for the res and just guessed where they are is plain silly.

7) People will blame you for abusing mechanics whether you are using them or not sometimes, I had one guy accuse me of perma stealth when I was using D/D (not possible), and another accuse me of HS spam when I was using S/D (just plain stupid). Just don’t worry about it

8) Again, what azerte said. My guild uses tanky mesmers/eles/rangers to draw fire (people looooove shooting at our ranger xD ) while the thieves burst and down things that are too busy to notice them. I don’t tend to stomp unless needed either, our tanks can do it far easier and with less risk. This is with an organise group with TS that plays together daily tho, in a pug group just stay out of the AoE’s and gank what you can :P

9) I have a 0/0/30/10/30 P/D build I use in WvW when I’m bored, 1500 range steal that dazes on a 22 sec cool down combined with shadow step, caltrops and runes of speed means things don’t get away often. You might enjoy that, it’s a total troll spec :P

10) I always have at least 10 points in acrobatics for the stealth-when-I-fall-off-stuff trait. It’s great for that sort of thing, plus if a smart alec pulls you off a tower wall you just disappear :P

Hopefully some of that helped :P Thief is such a great class to play, I love being able to dance around warriors while they rage at me xD Keep at it, and enjoy making people scream at their computers :P

Thanks guys. I’m gonna swap my S/P for P/D and see how that goes. I’ll check out those condi thief guides as well.

As a human, would Grenth’s Hand be viable for a thief? I haven’t had much chance to use it in WvW.

I took D/D and P/D in WvW, and really liked it. It feels like I’ll have to relearn combos though, hah. I kept messing up my timing. But at least now I can catch people running away!

Anyhow, I’ve come across another question. Since I dropped refuge while zerging, arrowcarts….hurt. A lot. (I don’t know…I’ve just been able to avoid them with refuge all this time…) Any methods in avoiding AC spam, aside from the obvious ’don’t get hit’?

1) Shadow’s Refuge is, of course, a must have for most WvW, but Shadowstep is a close second. It’s amazing at helping you jump on distant targets (Shadowstep → Steal gets you on top of just about anyone), but it’s also great at escaping zergs. Blinding Powder is another great ability, but Infiltrator’s Signet is good as well, depending on what build you’re running.

2) Pistol Whip isn’t getting it’s stun nerfed (that already happened with the nerf to Sigil of Paralyzation in the last balance patch), but the sword is getting nerfed with a cast time being added to Infiltrator’s Strike. However, pistol whip will have a small aftercast reduction at least.

That being said, I would recommend having a short bow as your swap weapon unless you’re solo-capping a camp. Dropping a blind field will allow you to auto-attack through the guards, although a dagger storm is good to start with for clearing scouts.

3) Rune of the Traveler is optimal, but Rune of the Centaur is good too.

4) Direct damage. A condi build can work, but direct damage is almost always better. If you do run with a build that uses at least 25 in trickery, it still works well for direct damage because of Lead Attacks. Just make sure you’re not wasting initiative.

5) Check out Coloxus’ video on thief tips and tricks to see various ways of closing distance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmrfBr1R5s
Some of it won’t apply to WvW or your spec, but it’s all worth watching.

6) You don’t need anything but a short bow for zerg fights, really. However, tossing down a shadow’s refuge on top of yourself before you go down will often give you a chance at being able to heal yourself back up from a downed state and escape if things go badly. Just be sure to Shadow Escape out of your Shadow’s Refuge as enemies will often decide to AoE inside in hopes of hitting you.

7) Who cares. Perma stealth is dead 12/10 anyways. =P

8) Pop out your short bow and help out. Cluster bomb will allow you to hit targets on top of walls that are out of line of sight since the AoE from when it lands goes through walls. Just don’t detonate the cluster.

9) The short bow is great for catching fleeing thieves (particularly if you stealth to get the immobilize shot), but don’t waste too much time chasing thieves. You’re usually better off going back to capturing objectives than running all over the map for 1 kill.

10) Descent of Shadows is awesome for WvW and is particularly helpful for when you’re doing things like jumping off walls to attack since it gives you a free stealth.

Finally, if you haven’t yet, go watch Yishis’ videos on thief in WvW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Lh8Oogl6Y