Guild Wars 2

I know this has been discussed but can you help me a bit more.

I haven’t leveled a mesmer so they confuse the hell out of me.

The mesmer with lots of clones, you see him and start attacking him, he stealths and a clone takes his place (I think this is what is happening)

At this point I think (what kind of build is this by the way?)

1) If you have tagged him as a target (I always call targets) the clone gets the target indicator or it disappears.
2) The mesmer stealths

My questions are – how long can he stealth? Is the same as thief stealth? How many times can he do this (what is the cooldown).

I am getting a little better at picking out the real mesmer when he reappears – at this point there are like 3 toher clones ,but it seems (and I know it’s just me l2p) that anytime I start attacking the real mesmer he disappears and a clone appears.

So… any help would be great as it is now I just C/D the nearest clone and leave, it’s just too much of a pain.

I pay P/D condi, but have the same problem no matter what build i’m playing.

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

All Mesmer stealths function like Blinding Powder. 3~ second duration and a decent cooldown. And theyre all utility skills. But you need to watch, he has teleports as well. One functions like Shadowstep and he can target it, and others move him forward (sword) or back (staff).

Mesmers gain a clone when they dodge roll, it appears where ever they started, like how thieves can get swiftness or drop caltraps. This might seem good for him, but its actually bad, as he can never dodge rool away to keep you from CnDing him, youll always get his clone he just dropped.

The best advice I can give is if youre playing D/D+S/D, if hes a glass cannon mesmer, stay stealthed and try to CnD him a bit to get him to 60%~ HP or so, then do your CnD, Steal, Backstab combo and he should go down. If he’s tanky, use your sword #2 to move in and out and autoattack him, but dont fight him on your return circle, you need to be away from it. When he gets Vigor (he will) you need to steal it with Sword #3, if he gets a long duration Regen you need to steal that too. If you can do that you will easily kill him… eventually. Just dont get caught in his burst. (when you get immobilized or clones are charging you, GTFO)

Also, if he summons the clone that spams unload (the dual pistol skill #3 on thief) you need to kill that ASAP. It will wreck your face.

Yesterday I encountered few of them, the times I won was when I pressured them hard. Do not give them the upper hand by fighting their clones, just stealth, and push forward behind the clones. Mesmers usually will immobilize you, and spam their clones to shatter them while hiding behind them, use shadowstep or CnD to break out of it. Wait for a second and you will find the real one appear at the back. That’s when you should throw everything you have at him. He will keep back paddling and dodging, but unless he is a very good player, you’ve already won if you get them into this position. I play D/D power build, I don’t know much about condition builds, nor how to counter them using S/x or P/P.

If I can figure out which one it is the condition P/D build is great because I can shoot him while running from the clones or CND the clones.

I just have issues figuring out which guy is the right guy and i end up stealth attacking a clone

Bottom line i guess is just fight them to get better at it rather than just leaving because i hate fighting them

Thanks for the advice. Anything else would be appreciated

I

animalmom.1062:

I know this has been discussed but can you help me a bit more.

I haven’t leveled a mesmer so they confuse the hell out of me.

The mesmer with lots of clones, you see him and start attacking him, he stealths and a clone takes his place (I think this is what is happening)

At this point I think (what kind of build is this by the way?)

1) If you have tagged him as a target (I always call targets) the clone gets the target indicator or it disappears.
2) The mesmer stealths

My questions are – how long can he stealth? Is the same as thief stealth? How many times can he do this (what is the cooldown).

I am getting a little better at picking out the real mesmer when he reappears – at this point there are like 3 toher clones ,but it seems (and I know it’s just me l2p) that anytime I start attacking the real mesmer he disappears and a clone appears.

So… any help would be great as it is now I just C/D the nearest clone and leave, it’s just too much of a pain.

I pay P/D condi, but have the same problem no matter what build i’m playing.

mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game no doubt, However if you are 100% full zerker you can kill them in 2 seconds before they can do jackkitten.

Cast basilisk poison when you see the mesmer cast kitten sig then precast CnD then steal (cnd goes off as soon as steal hits him) then backstab (mesmers are cloth mug can hit for 5-8k? + cnd + backstab thats upwards of 15k damage in 1 second) after this just pop haste and either heartseeker or if its obvious he invised pulled out your sb and spam pointblank clusterbombs like a madman nothing surives that and invis wont help him there.

If he didn’t die well get out of town till your kittens off cd.

Btw mesmers have a skill to transfer every condition off them and onto a target, I usually run with that skill when on my mesmer to just nullify kittens who run condition builds. They also have an aoe fields that removes all conditions off allies inside it. Theres a VERY good chance a mesmer in PvP will have 1 of these skills most likely the latter.

Zacchary.6183:

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

Because the ridiculous “SWOOOSH SWOOOSH SWOOOOSH” mutant turtle ninja nonsense thieves have is better ? XD

Now, glass mesmer, no matter what spec, should fairly often lose to a damage thief. Pop your shadow refuge right at the start. Then wait for the stealth to expire, perhaps even extending it a little, and then attack with the c&d, steal, bs combo. Also, remember to chain cloack from their clones.

Pure phantasm mesmers I can imagine are still difficult to beat, but that build needs a nerf anyway.

Shortbow is your best friend against those mesmers. They’re the best 1 vs 1 because they made it X vs 1, so you take the 1 vs X weapon. The clones are very squishy so even if SB damage is just decent, a few trickshots and well timed “shotgun” cluster bombs should help you getting rid of them.

Don’t stop moving. One of his main damage sources is through shattering and his clones will run like crazy to shatter in your face so keep moving and using the AoE attacks at your disposal.

If you have Thieves Guild it’s a good moment to use it to even the numbers. Also if you manage to steal from them you will get ectoplasm, which grants all buffs (if you steal any other thing, it was a clone).

To identify the real one, go for the one that moves his feet in circles around you. The clones are NPCs and they won’t try any strategy so here is where you can spot the real mesmer.

Once the situation is stable you can take your P/D again and use the clones for the cloak and daggers, but I’ve learned to keep the Shortbow against them as they can keep creating clones and you will need to get rid of them while still damaging him.

It takes some time to adapt against them, but soon you will learn to read the differences between human player mesmer beheaviour and his summoned clones.

i USUALLY win this fight with p/d….the real key is to move around and be patient and i use 0 0 30 30 10 for my build which works better than most others i have noticed. i also win much easier with d/d 30 30 0 0 10 and d/d 10 0 0 30 30 evade condi. but thats a diff story.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Zacchary.6183:

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

Because the ridiculous “SWOOOSH SWOOOSH SWOOOOSH” mutant turtle ninja nonsense thieves have is better ? XD

Now, glass mesmer, no matter what spec, should fairly often lose to a damage thief. Pop your shadow refuge right at the start. Then wait for the stealth to expire, perhaps even extending it a little, and then attack with the c&d, steal, bs combo. Also, remember to chain cloack from their clones.

Pure phantasm mesmers I can imagine are still difficult to beat, but that build needs a nerf anyway.

Mutant Ninja Turtles are cooler than pink butterflies everywhere. Just saying.

i find the only time i have problems with mesmers is when im on my high dmg builds. d/d evade condi…..p/d bleed….. work well…. not only that if u really wanna go dmg u have to REALLY go dmg so u kill all their clones in 1 auto attack shot. then u just follow around the mesmer as the waste endurance and skills…… and then attack them….as ive said ive beaten mesmers with auto attack on my 30 30 0 0 10 build …. mesmers are almost always if not always….reliant on their clones/phants/ etc ….much more than a thief is on invis. this of course only works in wvw as wvw is fair for a thief and spvp/tpvp is biased against a thief due to dmg restrictions. but thats a different conversation for a different time. anyway try one of those u guys might like the results depending on your playstyle preferences. enjoy

S/D:
Dodge charging clones, CnD off of other clones as often as possible, tactical strike out of stealth to keep them dazed, keep a stunbreak up for when you need it, and keep your pressure up (FS/LS to keep boons off of them if that’s the build they have). If they port away, and you can’t catch them, then you won the battle for the node.

With D/D the strategy would be similar, but without tactical strike and FS/LS (damage rather than control).

I’m assuming this was in WvW so your best bet is S/D. S/D is basically a 99% win rate vs any mesmer build but you have to play it almost perfectly.

VS Shatter; make sure you aways have Shadow Return up so you can break out of the burst. CnD off clones and daze then AA the mesmer.

VS Condition; same kittenter but watch out for the Choas Storm and condition from clones. They have high boon so knowing this CnD off clone (try to CnD the Warlock since it does decent damage) then do FS/LS if the mesmer has boons up (do not daze, stealing protection/regen/vigor from the mesmer will be better in this long term fight). If the mesmer have no boons, use TS.

VS Phast; move around so the phast have to catch up to you. CnD off phast and kill key phast when you get a chance (Izerker and Iduelist). Back off and reset fight if you see 2 Iduelists.

PS. If you’re fighting a Mesmer with a focus and you need to SF, use Dagger Storm then immediately cancel then cast SF. With this you will have stability and the mesmer cannot pull you out.

Also, if you have your dodge up, dodge twice in the SF and most likely, the curtain will not pull you far enough to reveal you.

Good Luck

Zacchary.6183:

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

HAHAHA! I feel you man.

With all the confusion stacks while they beat you with a stick, that’s all you can really do.

But I usually hide in a corner before I /cry.

Hey, we mesmers are all about mind games. Those butterflies are just an additional kind of humiliation :P

I use S/D and D/P combo on my thief and have no problem taking down mesmers. The only thing is finishing them off since they seem to do a kitten load more damage when downed. But having a stealth around fixes that problem.

Like posted previously. Fighting a mesmer is about being patient. Let him use all his cooldowns while u stealth on his pets. Read his and his pets movements. When 1 pet come rushing at u, hes like to use illusionary leap = dodge. When he wields his greatsword and he puts one hand in the air u need to dodge the berserker. If he stealths, just stealth on the pets till he reappears.

if ur talking fighting mesmers alone …. s/d is not your best bet. if ur talking about using it in conjuction with wvw/spvp then s/d or/and d/p is your best bet….. depends if ur dueling or if ur want a good overall build for pvp. if its dueling d/d and p/d is best

Iavra.8510:

Hey, we mesmers are all about mind games. Those butterflies are just an additional kind of humiliation :P

I can’t imagine Terry Tate, Office Linebacker, as a mesmer with or without butterflies.

bhansen.7251:

Like posted previously. Fighting a mesmer is about being patient. Let him use all his cooldowns while u stealth on his pets. Read his and his pets movements. When 1 pet come rushing at u, hes like to use illusionary leap = dodge. When he wields his greatsword and he puts one hand in the air u need to dodge the berserker. If he stealths, just stealth on the pets till he reappears.

I loled at all these suggestions.

Might as well say;

“If you see a Mesmer, put away your weapons and run. RUN LIKE A kitten!!!”"

They’re equally valuable.

I mean for reals? Trying to react to what a Mesmer would do is like trying to react to Mike Tyson’s uppercut. You’ll see it coming, but it will knock you out silly.

Honestly it’s very difficult. I think for this match up advantage goes to mesmer. Obviously if you are more skilled than the mesmer you can win but if equal skill levels the mesmer will win.

Zacchary.6183:

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

A great way to learn how to play against classes is to find a guildie in your guild that plays that certain class
And then duel with him over and over. After every duel tell him what you think you did wrong, or how you didn’t get how he was able to do something.
Let him then tell you what he thinks you should’ve done at some key moments.

Best is that the player you duel with is someone who has played several builds already. Sure he won’t be the pro in a certain build (or maybe he is, it depends), but you’ll learn the skills, the tell-signs and know how to react. After that put the knowledge into the field where a lot more variables count and you’ll have to pay more attention.

This is how I learned to fight against bunker engies and eles and that clone-zerg mesmer. Likewise this is how I taught my guildies to react against thieves, and most of them can survive a thief in 5v5. I don’t talk about zergs because there is a lot of chaos there.

Almost all classes save Guardian and Ranger have enormous difficulty against Mesmers. You’ll never beat a competent Phantasmal Mesmer 1v1, so just leave or hope that help arrives. Shatter Mesmers can be taken in 1v1, but not easily. As a Thief, you can be insta-killed by a single Mindwrack if the Mesmer is built properly.

Your best bet is to go S/D full acrobatics and be ready at all times to teleport out of combat and leave if you get immobilized. Remember to steal from him successfully, because that boon burst will aid you considerably. Don’t bother using Thieves guild as generally it’s a waste against a good Mesmer. Don’t bother using Venoms either. Make sure to pack Withdrawal, since you can use that while immobilized to avoid a shatter. Also, Shortbow is rather strong against a Mesmer, so keep that in mind as a secondary. Cluster Bomb and autoattack can eat up their clones faster than they can output them.

Hope this helps, but again, Shatter Mesmers are somewhat overpowered for tPvP/WvW, and you’ll have some major difficulty against them, especially in a team-setting.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Zacchary.6183:

When I fight a mesmer I normally curl up into a ball and spam /cry. I pretty much gave up on fighting them.

And before someone says, “L2P MESMER BEFORE YOU COMPLAIN”, I just want to say that I am not going to play mesmer until they get rid of those kitten pink butterflies.

A great way to learn how to play against classes is to find a guildie in your guild that plays that certain class
And then duel with him over and over. After every duel tell him what you think you did wrong, or how you didn’t get how he was able to do something.
Let him then tell you what he thinks you should’ve done at some key moments.

Best is that the player you duel with is someone who has played several builds already. Sure he won’t be the pro in a certain build (or maybe he is, it depends), but you’ll learn the skills, the tell-signs and know how to react. After that put the knowledge into the field where a lot more variables count and you’ll have to pay more attention.

This is how I learned to fight against bunker engies and eles and that clone-zerg mesmer. Likewise this is how I taught my guildies to react against thieves, and most of them can survive a thief in 5v5. I don’t talk about zergs because there is a lot of chaos there.

This is actually the best way of learning, not how to fight a mesmer, but how to play your Thief well against a mesmer.

When my guild was still active, I used to use my guildie as guinea pigs to see how my build affects their build. Like, how much is the actual damage against a bunker. How fast can they heal my damage. Where would they go if they cloned or stealth. What is the farthest range of a Greatsword. How fast can I kill a Ranger Pet. Etc.

Once you have all these information, you’ll understand if you can beat a profession or not. Which weapon is more effective. Etc.

Two key things about a Mesmer though — if they are carrying either a Focus or a Staff, it’ll be a very long night for you.

“Shortbow is your best friend against those mesmers. They’re the best 1 vs 1 because they made it X vs 1, so you take the 1 vs X weapon. The clones are very squishy so even if SB damage is just decent, a few trickshots and well timed “shotgun” cluster bombs should help you getting rid of them.”

I will try this – however I am condi thief so not sure i can do enough damage to kill him.

This seems to really make sense

animalmom.1062:

“Shortbow is your best friend against those mesmers. They’re the best 1 vs 1 because they made it X vs 1, so you take the 1 vs X weapon. The clones are very squishy so even if SB damage is just decent, a few trickshots and well timed “shotgun” cluster bombs should help you getting rid of them.”

I will try this – however I am condi thief so not sure i can do enough damage to kill him.

This seems to really make sense

I’m condi Thief too, so far this strategy has worked well for me. Carrion equipment gives more than enough Power for this task (in my personal build I also have +250 power from 25 DA pts). Of course there will be some specific mesmers that will be a bit of a headache, but with practice you will do fine. It takes some more time than with other professions to read them properly, but at the end it’s all practice.

Mesmer Phantasms will attack you the instant you leave stealth, however they can’t attack you while you are in stealth.

The easiest solution is to use your stealth attack, then dodge immediately because all the phantasms will be ‘waiting’ for you to leave stealth. Obviously, this doesn’t work as well for P/D, but it is worth a shot.

What is a mesmer phatasm? Is it different from a clone?

I really don’t understand mesmer much and it’s about time I do.

I will try this – however I am condi thief so not sure i can do enough damage to kill him.

Actually, you will have it a LOT easier fighting mesmers than a power thief. Mesmer condition removal is quite rare and usually on a long cd.

A P/D thief for example can grind almost any mesmer until he dies to the bleeds.

Personally, i think that D/D #3-spam is quite useless but that may be just me.

/edit: Another tip: Never use daggerstorm against a phantasm mesmer before you checked for retaliation. I’ve seen so many thieves kill themselves in seconds when doing this.

Another /edit:

What is a mesmer phatasm? Is it different from a clone?

Clones look exactly the same as the original mesmer (missing their offhand weapon…likely a bug) and do close to no damage at all.

Phantasms on the other hand appear translucent with a purple aura around them (kind of like http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whisperblade) and are capable of doing a good amount of damage to you. Also, they always wield a specific weapon depending on their source (the sword phantasm wields whisperblade, the staff phantasm Abyssal Scepter, etc).

animalmom.1062:

What is a mesmer phatasm? Is it different from a clone?

I really don’t understand mesmer much and it’s about time I do.

Phantasms are clones that are tougher and do more damage, basically. They also can do special things.

You can spam daze on them, it works most effectively, I am a mesmer myself. So far the best thief build I encountered (at least against my build) was a daze spam build, not sure what you guys call it.

Do not forget a mesmer can create up to 10 clones in like 4-5 seconds. A mesmer can also get 9 sec continuous invulnerability by successively using some skills, not to even count another 9 seconds of invisibility. They usually move slow, so even if they go stealth try to guess the direction and approach that way.

BTW phantasms are really squishy, they are two-hit and poof. But they hit hard.

Clones on the other hand are tougher. But they do not hit at all.

Look for the one that dodges or gets a shield around him, that is the real mesmer. Basically clones will look like 1diots next to the real player.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

animalmom.1062:

What is a mesmer phatasm? Is it different from a clone?

I really don’t understand mesmer much and it’s about time I do.

Phantasms are clones that are tougher and do more damage, basically. They also can do special things.

An Illusion has 2 types: clone and phantasm. If the illusion is colored, it’s a clone. If it is purplist-pink, then it’s a phantasm.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion

The tooltip will get you confused but this is how the skills distinguishes them.

I play both mesmer and thief. The best thing you can do to beat a mesmer is CnD his clones. Out stealth him. The mesmer is the one that’s usually at the back, the one that dodges, moves. That being said there are so many viable mesmer builds you really have to adjust your tactics depends on the one your are fighting.

Mogar.9216:

I play both mesmer and thief. The best thing you can do to beat a mesmer is CnD his clones. Out stealth him. The mesmer is the one that’s usually at the back, the one that dodges, moves. That being said there are so many viable mesmer builds you really have to adjust your tactics depends on the one your are fighting.

Have you lost to a thief on your mesmer though?

Excalibur.9748:

Mogar.9216:

I play both mesmer and thief. The best thing you can do to beat a mesmer is CnD his clones. Out stealth him. The mesmer is the one that’s usually at the back, the one that dodges, moves. That being said there are so many viable mesmer builds you really have to adjust your tactics depends on the one your are fighting.

Have you lost to a thief on your mesmer though?

lol good question!

I love it when Thieves are CnD-ing my clones :P

Best advice for fighting mesmer is to stealth as much as possible. Turn off “Show All Enemy Names” so that the real mesmer is the only one with red name above his head.

If he has a staff and stands in his clones while you are stealthed, then just run away you will never beat him because you can’t land backstab.

Otherwise, you need condi removal and 30SA to beat them.

hold on, that’s it? You just turn off enemy names and you know where he is?

I mean if know where he is it is game over.

If i do that ONLY the real mesmer has a floaty name?

swinsk.6410:

Turn off “Show All Enemy Names” so that the real mesmer is the only one with red name above his head.

There definitely is testing to be had.

I cant wait to get home from work.

God I hope this is true I will go mesmer hunting until I pass out of my chair from exhaustion.

if you target the main Mesmer when he cloak it will be removed same as any other class. that cloaks.

mesmer have 2 second cloak + 1 second if traited in a grand master if i recall right. they have a possible 4 skills to enter cloak 1 them with high CD 1 on weapon set. 2 in uility 1 in elite

skill cloak are The Prestige offhand torch. 30s 3 second cloak CD
Uility cloak are. Veil 90 2 second cloak CD // decoy 3 second cloak 40s CD
Elite cloak = Mass invisbity 5s cloak 90s CD

a rule of thumb as a guide when fighting mesmer is. most of them are really dumb dont try to stand in with there clone making it easy to tell them apart. smart one will stand ontop there clones bait you in to the 3 of them so they can shatter on you for 25 vul. basicly kill you do not fall for that trap.