Guild Wars 2

MyCondolences.8172:

Lighter.5631:

warrior doesn’t have perma stealth

btw your post is 0/10

And come dec 10 neither will thief.

which is a good thing, because we are talking about being OP here, if you really want, i can just talk about simple stealth.

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

…if you take any significant damage in stealth, then you are just bad..most skills require target or have really small range. and Aoes are easy to dodge.

on the other hand, warriors need to spec tanky to facetank any sort of damage and still tank less then a guardian.

if you are talking about WvW, where everyone can have insane amount of damage or insane amount of tankiness.

let’s just make it clear, tankiness won’t save you from everything, stealth will.

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

I can negate a ton of damage while I a stealthed. Can heal and cleanse conditions too.

Sanduskel.1850:

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

I can negate a ton of damage while I a stealthed. Can heal and cleanse conditions too.

Bad argument there. 30points while stealthed for a similar amount of healing as a 15 point warrior trait thats always on.

And with shadow embrace i’d agree that thieves would have more condition removal, but warriors have stability.

Lighter.5631:

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

…if you take any significant damage in stealth, then you are just bad..most skills require target or have really small range. and Aoes are easy to dodge.

on the other hand, warriors need to spec tanky to facetank any sort of damage and still tank less then a guardian.

if you are talking about WvW, where everyone can have insane amount of damage or insane amount of tankiness.

let’s just make it clear, tankiness won’t save you from everything, stealth will.

warrior doesn’t need to spec tanky…. to be tanky… did you pvp lately?

MyCondolences.8172:

And thats the problem with Thieves.
They are built around the fact that they can stealth and stealth in itself is a more or less crap skill. Doesnt negate any dmg, short duration, longish cooldown(matter of opinion).

Warriors on the other hand dont need stealth, they can just facetank the sort of dmg that would annihilate a thief.

Yep, agreed. This is pretty much the entire problem.

Clumsy.6257:

im the first to admit 4 war/1 mes is an easy setup, thats why is was so popular with pugs,

Huh? Where did you admit that, must have missed it.

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Yup, thanks. Skill:reward.
Reward being the same, in case of CoF (plus/minus 10-20seconds… comparing videos, 20 seconds isn’t a big deal), one class had to sweat balls, the other took it as a cakewalk (difference? barely, seconds difference).
Harder to be a decent thief then a decent warrior. So, regardless of the time it takes to complete CoF path 1, a thief would have to put more effort (being skilled) to go through it than a warrior, in the end same reward. Even if you tac on time, the difference between the two groups, 10-20seconds… as you said “easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief”. (Not even worth being a thief at this point, if one class requires less skill then you while still performing just as well as you (thief) when your an above average(decent) player… what the point of putting in the extra effort? “I like a challenge” – hmmmm, okay, thumbsup.jpg)

Clumsy.6257:

and maybe you should view the video i linked again, 1 war (bannermule) and a ranger which considerably lowers party damage, even with frost spirit (spotter is trash)

So…Originally, you said “speed runs you’d know warriors are closer to the bottom of the dps chart”… okay… then why not bring in a necro, or a guard or a engineer…. surely since a warrior is at/closer to the bottom of the dps charts (even though his usefulness, as you might indicate, is buffing/bannering), wouldn’t an engi be more helpfull, or a necro, or even a guard provide more damage then a warrior (and possibly compensate for the lack of banners via their own damage which is greater then a warriors)? also
“if you go back and look the fastest cof p1 speed runs typically only had 2 wars in them”, kitten 2 of them must have really dropped the dps of that party… If they’re so bad, wouldn’t more thieves in the party be better? 4 thieves, 1 mesmer, sure they lose the banner buffs, but at least they dont have dps that’s possibly the lowest. (And yet, for some reason, in practice, I clearly remember the LFG site having multiple groups looking for only zerker warriors, weird when they’re near the bottom of the dps chart…)

Zero Day.2594:

also
“if you go back and look the fastest cof p1 speed runs typically only had 2 wars in them”, kitten 2 of them must have really dropped the dps of that party… If they’re so bad, wouldn’t more thieves in the party be better? 4 thieves, 1 mesmer, sure they lose the banner buffs, but at least they dont have dps that’s possibly the lowest. (And yet, for some reason, in practice, I clearly remember the LFG site having multiple groups looking for only zerker warriors, weird when they’re near the bottom of the dps chart…)

The party would have failed with 4 thiefs and a mesmer. If you didnt notice the thiefs jobs werent so much dps as it was their ability to use cluster bomb on fire field to give whole party 25 might stacks before bosses.

Zero Day.2594:

Clumsy.6257:

im the first to admit 4 war/1 mes is an easy setup, thats why is was so popular with pugs,

Huh? Where did you admit that, must have missed it.

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Yup, thanks. Skill:reward.
Reward being the same, in case of CoF (plus/minus 10-20seconds… comparing videos, 20 seconds isn’t a big deal), one class had to sweat balls, the other took it as a cakewalk (difference? barely, seconds difference).
Harder to be a decent thief then a decent warrior. So, regardless of the time it takes to complete CoF path 1, a thief would have to put more effort (being skilled) to go through it than a warrior, in the end same reward. Even if you tac on time, the difference between the two groups, 10-20seconds… as you said “easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief”. (Not even worth being a thief at this point, if one class requires less skill then you while still performing just as well as you (thief) when your an above average(decent) player… what the point of putting in the extra effort? “I like a challenge” – hmmmm, okay, thumbsup.jpg)

Clumsy.6257:

and maybe you should view the video i linked again, 1 war (bannermule) and a ranger which considerably lowers party damage, even with frost spirit (spotter is trash)

So…Originally, you said “speed runs you’d know warriors are closer to the bottom of the dps chart”… okay… then why not bring in a necro, or a guard or a engineer…. surely since a warrior is at/closer to the bottom of the dps charts (even though his usefulness, as you might indicate, is buffing/bannering), wouldn’t an engi be more helpfull, or a necro, or even a guard provide more damage then a warrior (and possibly compensate for the lack of banners via their own damage which is greater then a warriors)? also
“if you go back and look the fastest cof p1 speed runs typically only had 2 wars in them”, kitten 2 of them must have really dropped the dps of that party… If they’re so bad, wouldn’t more thieves in the party be better? 4 thieves, 1 mesmer, sure they lose the banner buffs, but at least they dont have dps that’s possibly the lowest. (And yet, for some reason, in practice, I clearly remember the LFG site having multiple groups looking for only zerker warriors, weird when they’re near the bottom of the dps chart…)

if you go back and look, i said warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top, the very bottom being necros < engi < war, and if you you’d do some fact checking guards are considerably higher than warriors on that chart coming in at 3rd place just behind d/d thieves and possibly topping s/x thieves (* see below), and your contradicting yourself, we both said decent warriors are much more common then decent thieves yet you still ask why gw2lfg only had posts asking for 4 wars…, and again you didnt read my post, the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only) and as for saying a thief puts in more effort during a run? its true effort = reward, that reward being defined by the player, be it higher numbers, faster times (** see below) or a challenge

edit: and lets face it, running cof (all paths) on any class requires little to no effort so comparing how hard it is to use one class over another is irrelevant

(*) s/f guard outdamages s/x thief by a little but guards sword chain is buggy on the cleave meaning you’d have to use gs in order to get the same guaranteed cleave which might put the guard just below a thief in cleave damage, im not sure of the actual numbers on s/x thief cleave but gs guard should be around 14-15k/s using 20/25/0/5/25

(**) in case you didnt play gw1, the whole endgame revolved around shaving off that 1 or 2 seconds from a run and that matters more than easiness to many gw1 vets

Clumsy.6257:

if you go back and look, i said warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top, the very bottom being necros < engi < war, and if you you’d do some fact checking guards are considerably higher than warriors on that chart

So why are they using that one warrior, when guards are considerably higher on the DPS charts?

MyCondolences.8172:

Zero Day.2594:

… If they’re so bad, wouldn’t more thieves in the party be better? 4 thieves, 1 mesmer …

The party would have failed with 4 thiefs and a mesmer. If you didnt notice the thiefs jobs werent so much dps as it was their ability to use cluster bomb on fire field to give whole party 25 might stacks before bosses.

Thief seems to stack might… lose the banner, get the guard, still be able to stack might, seems like a legit overall dps increase… why are they using a trashy warrior? (@Clumsy, not you MyCondolences thanks for pointing it though)

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Thanks. thumbsup.jpg

So is:
necros < engi < war
when the warrior is using banners (str/disc only). Or is that when he’s running a zerker build? Where does the zerker warrior stand? Also where do you place mesmer? (As far as i know the mesmer’s were brought to do “time warp” (that field that increases attack speed), and to portal on part). Eles?

Clumsy.6257:

and as for saying a thief puts in more effort during a run? its true effort = reward, that reward being defined by the player, be it higher numbers, faster times (** see below) or a challenge

I nice use ‘=’, here let me make it clearier then:

Thief effort = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins
Warrior effort = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins

CoF p1 reward being tokens/items/whatnot (generalized)
time 5:27 being the time it took, since the “thief group” according to you is faster than the “4warrior group”, the groups finished based on the “4warrior group”’s time.

(The faster group can slow down, by those 10-20 seconds (i dont even think the difference is 20 seconds, i know they start at different places), which would mean, yeah room for slack but really not too much either, (would you freely-nilly stand around 10 seconds at the start, to “burn them”, please keep it in mind that was there ONE run, so maybe nexttime they would need the 10 extra seconds, just like the warriors could run an extra run and be 10 seconds under their 5:27 time).

It should be true that
Thief effort = Warrior effort

But, it’s more like:
Thief effort > Warrior effort
At the same time
(Thief side) CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins (Warrior side)

The reward stays the same… I can unbalance it just like you, saying the warrior “liked the challenge” or “had higher numbers” or “had more fun” so he’s rewarded more, but no not going there, time and items are rewards.

Clumsy.6257:

edit: and lets face it, running cof (all paths) on any class requires little to no effort so comparing how hard it is to use one class over another is irrelevant

mmmmmm difficulity of the path is indeed irrelevant… in this conversation.

Clumsy.6257:

(**) in case you didnt play gw1, the whole endgame revolved around shaving off that 1 or 2 seconds from a run and that matters more than easiness to many gw1 vets

Right, so why are they using that one warrior, when guards are considerably higher on the DPS charts? (I copy pasted)
Could it be because:

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

?

Also, almost forgot

Clumsy.6257:

and your contradicting yourself, we both said decent warriors are much more common then decent thieves yet you still ask why gw2lfg only had posts asking for 4 wars

Re-stating my question (contradicting?), “why gw2lfg only had posts asking for 4 wars” and somewhat answering my self with:

Zero Day.2594:

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

…
Harder to be a decent thief then a decent warrior. So, regardless of the time it takes to complete CoF path 1, a thief would have to put more effort (being skilled) to go through it than a warrior, in the end same reward. Even if you tac on time, the difference between the two groups, 10-20seconds… as you said “easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief”. (Not even worth being a thief at this point, if one class requires less skill then you while still performing just as well as you (thief) when your an above average(decent) player… what the point of putting in the extra effort? “I like a challenge” – hmmmm, okay, thumbsup.jpg)

Since, harder to find a decent thief, means there’s not a lot of decent thiefs, meaning it’s harder to be a decent thief (requires me effort) (or no one plays this class anymore… heh)
And
It’s easier to find a decent warrior, means there’s a lot of warriors that are decent, meaning that there’s a metric kitten ton of warriors or it’s not hard to be decent.
So, both being decent, one requires more effort than the other.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/
thief – 12%
warrior -16%
so… it’s easier to be a decent warrior (less effort)
and… it’s harder to be a decent thief (more effort)

Keep going, you’re making some fine points:

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

You heard him, ladies.

Clumsy.6257:

(*) s/f guard outdamages s/x thief by a little

I can’t get over the fact that you apparently don’t you think that it is sad that a master of support and defense actually outdamages a single target assassin that can’t even endure a few attacks before toppling over.

@Deathspike
Sometimes I get the feeling that clumsy is arguing how guards/warriors are OP,
the quote you quoted and the two quotes I quoted at the bottom of my wall of text just above your post.

Deathspike.1870:

Clumsy.6257:

(*) s/f guard outdamages s/x thief by a little

I can’t get over the fact that you apparently don’t you think that it is sad that a master of support and defense actually outdamages a single target assassin that can’t even endure a few attacks before toppling over.

if you actually read what i posted you’d realize i said s/x thief, meaning not single target, d/d has much higher damage than s/x

Zero Day.2594:

Clumsy.6257:

if you go back and look, i said warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top, the very bottom being necros < engi < war, and if you you’d do some fact checking guards are considerably higher than warriors on that chart

So why are they using that one warrior, when guards are considerably higher on the DPS charts?

MyCondolences.8172:

Zero Day.2594:

… If they’re so bad, wouldn’t more thieves in the party be better? 4 thieves, 1 mesmer …

The party would have failed with 4 thiefs and a mesmer. If you didnt notice the thiefs jobs werent so much dps as it was their ability to use cluster bomb on fire field to give whole party 25 might stacks before bosses.

Thief seems to stack might… lose the banner, get the guard, still be able to stack might, seems like a legit overall dps increase… why are they using a trashy warrior? (@Clumsy, not you MyCondolences thanks for pointing it though)

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Thanks. thumbsup.jpg

So is:
necros < engi < war
when the warrior is using banners (str/disc only). Or is that when he’s running a zerker build? Where does the zerker warrior stand? Also where do you place mesmer? (As far as i know the mesmer’s were brought to do “time warp” (that field that increases attack speed), and to portal on part). Eles?

Clumsy.6257:

and as for saying a thief puts in more effort during a run? its true effort = reward, that reward being defined by the player, be it higher numbers, faster times (** see below) or a challenge

I nice use ‘=’, here let me make it clearier then:

Thief effort = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins
Warrior effort = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins

CoF p1 reward being tokens/items/whatnot (generalized)
time 5:27 being the time it took, since the “thief group” according to you is faster than the “4warrior group”, the groups finished based on the “4warrior group”’s time.

(The faster group can slow down, by those 10-20 seconds (i dont even think the difference is 20 seconds, i know they start at different places), which would mean, yeah room for slack but really not too much either, (would you freely-nilly stand around 10 seconds at the start, to “burn them”, please keep it in mind that was there ONE run, so maybe nexttime they would need the 10 extra seconds, just like the warriors could run an extra run and be 10 seconds under their 5:27 time).

It should be true that
Thief effort = Warrior effort

But, it’s more like:
Thief effort > Warrior effort
At the same time
(Thief side) CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins = CoF p1 reward, time 5:27mins (Warrior side)

The reward stays the same… I can unbalance it just like you, saying the warrior “liked the challenge” or “had higher numbers” or “had more fun” so he’s rewarded more, but no not going there, time and items are rewards.

Clumsy.6257:

edit: and lets face it, running cof (all paths) on any class requires little to no effort so comparing how hard it is to use one class over another is irrelevant

mmmmmm difficulity of the path is indeed irrelevant… in this conversation.

Clumsy.6257:

(**) in case you didnt play gw1, the whole endgame revolved around shaving off that 1 or 2 seconds from a run and that matters more than easiness to many gw1 vets

Right, so why are they using that one warrior, when guards are considerably higher on the DPS charts? (I copy pasted)
Could it be because:

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

?

and you do realize ive answered every single one of your questions/statements in the post that you quoted…
edit: that or you dont understand the way a party comp is formed

Clumsy.6257:

and you do realize ive answered every single one of your questions/statements in the post that you quoted…
edit: that or you dont understand the way a party comp is formed

So, my questions:
why are they using a trashy warrior?
You seem to suggest that it’s to be able to outdamage the warrior itself when his using a banner? By him buffing via banner so that other party members do well (effectively better than him)…
Great, that explains where banner warriors stand, you never mentioned zerker warriors… I mean if your suggesting that the only way to out damage a warrior is to have him run banners to buff others so that they can out damage him. So, is there anything that outdamages a zerker warrior? wouldn’t it be more effective to more of them?
Thieves seems to only stack might, yeah somewhat usefull, would it be more usefull to stack might on zerker warriors (they can drop fire field via longbow)?
so why are they using that one warrior, when guards are considerably higher on the DPS charts?
using guard here as an example since you said that guards are considerably higher than warriors on that chart.

Where does the zerker warrior stand? Also where do you place mesmer? Eles?
Given:
necros < engi < war
and
guards are considerably higher than warriors on that chart coming in at 3rd place just behind d/d
I can say roughly that it’s something like this:
necros < engi < war < guard < thief < ?
First place, let’s say ele, so:
necros < engi < war < guard < thief < ele
Okay, cool, mesmer? well only in two places (not considering first place):
necros < engi < war < mesmer < guard < thief < ele
or
necros < engi < mesmer < war < guard < thief < ele
More importantly, since you said:
warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top
The likely chain is:
necros < engi < war < mesmer < guard < thief < ele
because if the warrior > mesmer, that would make your statement
warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top
not valid, since they will be dead in the middle of the chain, and not “closer to the bottom” (they would be “in the middle”, please dont pull the crap of “the glass is half empty”, it’s in the middle).
At the same time, I’m not even sure how your chain works… is the “warrior” the banner warrior that allows party members to outdamage themselves or a zerker warrior that was never mentioned.

But, so far, you’ve made three things quite nicely

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Not only, can a party outdamage a warrior only if the warrior running banners and buffing them, but it’s also easier to be a decent warrior than a thief.
I’m kind of, maybe I’m wrong, equate that to,“if I run something other than banners, i will faceroll with ease (compared to facerolling on thief)”

Clumsy.6257:

Deathspike.1870:

Clumsy.6257:

(*) s/f guard outdamages s/x thief by a little

I can’t get over the fact that you apparently don’t you think that it is sad that a master of support and defense actually outdamages a single target assassin that can’t even endure a few attacks before toppling over.

if you actually read what i posted you’d realize i said s/x thief, meaning not single target, d/d has much higher damage than s/x

K, even though the slip is "single target*, why the kitten is a guard able to do more damage than an “assassin” like class? I can see the guard being able to metigate damage really well, and they do that. I can see the assasin like class dieing really fast but doing higher damage then a guard. o.O but the fact the the guard can metigate damage and outdamage the assassin… well.. why the kitten would I want to be an assassin then?

Banner warrior = zerker warrior (where did you get the idea that a banner warrior wasnt full zerker?), and other classes already out damage warrior (although that bumps warrior closer to the top) without banners, banners just increase the damage even more. As for mesmer, its a bit of a wild card, damage relies on phantasms and can spike from highest single target in game to necro damage depending on phantasms but mesmers main job is maintaining reflects, tw, and pulling. And why do guardians come close to outdamaging highest burst class? Ask anet, they made the class. Thieves also are much better at mitigating damage than guardians assuming your talking about trash mobs (dredge being the exception). And why bring a warrior over a guardian? You fill party slots based on need in this or a similar order: Banners, mesmer(?), guardian(?), Dps. Note: banners are a constant, mesmer/guardian are based on dungeon needs, otherwise fill out slots with dps. The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

I have 8 slots, and I play 1 of each class.

My Thief is 80, my Mesmer is 80, my Necro is close to 80, and I just started my Warrior, who is just past 30.

Although each type of gameplay is different, PvP, PvE, WvWvW, etc., you can tell a lot about the class simply from how the skills play, no matter where you’re using them.

I pay a lot of attention to flow and timing and cadence – and less to math and min/max.

The Thief and the Ranger are the two worst classes in the game (as predicted during beta).

The Thief is a gimicky, melee glass cannon. By gimicky, I mean what most people mean by ‘high risk/high reward’.

The Thief should be able to kill faster than any other class – precisely because they can be killed faster than any other class.

The Thief has no natural defenses, aside from Stealth and Evasion, and once permastealth is removed, the Thief doesn’t have enough defense.

I would suggest that Anet focus on integrating both Stealth and Evasion more tightly into the weapon skills – the utility skills that have these two abilities (such as Roll for Initiative) already function just fine.

But the Thief, who relies on a unique resource management system, needs their primary defense (Stealth and Evasion) to be a more integral part of our basic weapon skills.

To an extent, you see this already in skills like Death Blossom (with it’s small evade), and Cloak and Dagger (Stealth).

They need to do more in that direction.

Cleanse on evade would be a good start. More passive stealth triggers (stealth when hit – stealth at threshold, etc.) Passive evades (evade on hit, evade on threshold, etc.)

Once this is done, then Anet needs to look at their DPS output and balance that according to their defense.

The Thief is useless until their defense is fixed.

Clumsy.6257:

The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

Thanks, again.
Boy, I wish I could stand still with a thief and be considered valuable…

Clumsy.6257:

(although that bumps warrior closer to the top)

Clumsy.6257:

i said warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top

So, which one is it?

So far:

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Clumsy.6257:

The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

I want to ask, do you find warriors OP? Are they better than thieves?

Zero Day.2594:

Clumsy.6257:

The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

Thanks, again.
Boy, I wish I could stand still with a thief and be considered valuable…

Clumsy.6257:

(although that bumps warrior closer to the top)

Clumsy.6257:

i said warriors are closer to the bottom than they are to the top

So, which one is it?

---

So far:

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Clumsy.6257:

The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

I want to ask, do you find warriors OP? Are they better than thieves?

Do you even read my posts? Warriors are close to the bottom of the dps chart in a group setting. In a single player setting warriors are much closer to the top, probably just below thief and ele because they have access to banners while other classes don’t. Do I find warriors OP? No, its just another class taken for being easy while providing a necessary buff. Are they better than thieves? “Better” is a subjective term. Higher dps? No. Better buffs? N/A, 2 completely different styles. Easier? Yes. Less fun? Yes (subjective)

Clumsy.6257:

…Do I find warriors OP? No, its just another class taken for being easy while providing a necessary buff. Are they better than thieves? “Better” is a subjective term. Higher dps? No. Better buffs? N/A, 2 completely different styles. Easier? Yes. Less fun? Yes (subjective)

Thanks again.

Clumsy.6257:

the video i linked had 1 warrior for banners, other classes cant outdamage warriors by the large amount that they do without a warrior in the party using banners (str/disc only)

Clumsy.6257:

its insanely easier to find a decent warrior than it is to find a decent thief

Clumsy.6257:

The banners are so good that even if the warrior (edit:)stood still the whole dungeon he would still be considered valuable for the large boost to the other 4 players.

Clumsy.6257:

…Do I find warriors OP? No, its just another class taken for being easy while providing a necessary buff. Are they better than thieves? “Better” is a subjective term. Higher dps? No. Better buffs? N/A, 2 completely different styles. Easier? Yes. Less fun? Yes (subjective)

(N/A → I don’t think thieves giving out lots of buffs (i know some))

Thief probably should have never gotten stealth to begin with. Its just really hard to balance around. A competent thief can escape a losing fight 99.9 percent of the time. Probably just should have made the thief really mobile and slightly tankier. Stealth has just always been a hard thing to balance around. Maybe even just removing shadow refuge and giving thief some love would help. In my opinion shadow refuge is the problem. Pretty much every thief ever to play gw2 uses SR. The little 2-3 stealths I don’t have a problem with but when every single thief that is dieing can pop SR and get 3 seconds right away then about a quarter second later the second tick happens making it 6 seconds and a total of up to 15 seconds if they stay in the aoe for the full duration is just stupid.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Thief probably should have never gotten stealth to begin with. Its just really hard to balance around. A competent thief can escape a losing fight 99.9 percent of the time. Probably just should have made the thief really mobile and slightly tankier. Stealth has just always been a hard thing to balance around. Maybe even just removing shadow refuge and giving thief some love would help. In my opinion shadow refuge is the problem. Pretty much every thief ever to play gw2 uses SR. The little 2-3 stealths I don’t have a problem with but when every single thief that is dieing can pop SR and get 3 seconds right away then about a quarter second later the second tick happens making it 6 seconds and a total of up to 15 seconds if they stay in the aoe for the full duration is just stupid.

in some games thieves have perma stealth and there were times when they were balanced… thieves don’t even have actual perma stealth in this game and i honestly don’t think it is that imbalanced here….the problem is human mentality, people who never played thief don’t know how to deal with stealth and how it works and demand nerfs…if thieves didn’t exist they would QQ same crap about mesmers

devs actually need to try pvp on thief in tpvp than listen to QQ from clueless warrior players

so far the only time i saw dev playing a thief was presenation of thief pve at lv 20….