Guild Wars 2

Alright ladies and gentlemen of the thieve board, I’ve got 5 simple questions for you all, (even you lurkers)
for science…

1: What mode do you prefer

(pvp wvw or Pve)

2: How long have you been a thieve?
(beta, presale, launch , last year, this year. [hours if you want])

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
(shorter periods , longer periods, about the same)

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

(yes / no ) why?

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
try to be as direct about why if possible

yes / no

Other relevant information: anything you think is relevant to your answers
(my answers are bold, to save space)

1. WvW. Nothing beats the joy of wandering around killing other roamers or small scale groups. I gotta say that tPvP are at a very close second. The challenge there is way higher, and challenge is an important part of my gameplay.
2. I created my first thief the first time it was possible in the beta events.
3. I usually play my thief exclusively. If I play some other professions it’s just to learn animations or how to counter a certain build.
4. Yes! I love the thief – everything about it.
5. The balance team are listening way too much at the casual players. They’re catering to their casual player base, and that have made the thief a very hard profession to play and master.

1. WvW and PvE. PvP currently lacks the customization and game modes for me to play it longer than short periods

2.Presale (headstart weekend at least… didn’t get a beta invite :’( )

3. Still for long periods of time. I do have 3 other level 80’s though and sometimes I’ll go for a few weeks stretch not touching my thief.

4. Yes (I’m currently leveling one again). The zones are more boring since it’s really the 5th+ time of leveling a class, but that’s not the thief’s fault.

5. No. The reason I have my alts is because they are more effective. In wvw I get asked to bring one of my alts if we’re doing any serious small group work (either mes or war). The thief is more fun though even if its not as good at group play. (sidenote: venoms are not “almost there”)

1. Wvw
2. Beta
3. Longer
4. Yes. easier to gain initiative now
5. Yes. They are reducing stealth which will allow other buffs.

1: What mode do you prefer
PvP.

2: How long have you been a thieve?
This year (~6 months).

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
Much shorter periods.
This is due to a combination of the current state of thieves compared to other classes, the attitude of ANet toward thieves judging from patches, and having used the class a lot and wanting to play another for a while. However, the first two reasons are what’s pushing me to main a new class.

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?
No.
I can’t say for sure, because I didn’t play since launch. I had the game but didn’t really play it until many months later. But from what I’ve heard, thief has been nerfed constantly, while other classes are buffed, or nerfed with buffs in the same or later patches. Comparing what I’ve been told we were at launch to what we are now, we’ve been nerfed to the ground. The change to initiative last patch is why I’m still hoping that some improvements will be made to thief – it showed ANet is willing to make some significant adjustments.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
I agree with what they say, but not with what they do. They seem to make changes which reflect the opposite of what they claim they want thief to be.

1: pvp
2: this year
3: as long as i don’t face engis, about the same; engis make me want to uninstall
4: can’t answer that since i didn’t play since launch
5: I have no idea what direction they are going tbh as pretty much every recent change to thief puzzles me. PvP is plagued by condi tanks and aoe spam and thieves are not exactly the best at it nor can fight it well (if even); if i take recent patches as references i am assuming that devs want us to use venoms more and have less stealth/dodges/CCs aka less survival…

I might be wrong but i personally do not get an impression that feedback from thief players is really considered (look at recent patch notes and how much feedback from thieves affected them). Given that i assume that next patches will once again nerf stealth and maybe our moblity and stun breaks but not adress any of thief problems.

Do i agree with direction? Not really. I came from WoW where rogue class (similar to thieves) been nerfed so bad because people can’t deal with stealth that rogue arena population went close to 1% (ironically, wow devs themself stated they can’t figure out why people don#t want to play rogues lol), so eventually devs thought oh hey let’s throw some buffs but as always completely ignored feedback from high ranked players and rogues ended up gimmicky one shot machines and got serverly nerfed again. It kept repeating like this over years. It was very frustrating and what i see is exactly same crap happening here as well.

It is not like thief community isn’t active and didn’t make any good suggestions :/

On side note, i know i am negative Nancy and grass is greener on other side so i did go and rolled other classes, to my surprise some of them (cough warriors) were even easier and more rewarding than i expected. I honestly don’t understand why thief class has to be punished so severely where other classes perform so much better in so many areas and get buffed instead. I personally would love to see other classes brought to same trade off level like thieves have: can’t build bunker w/o completely losing dmg, CCs have high costs, 1 mistake means death, positional requirement etc etc.

1: What mode do you prefer

Overall WvW just because it’s the most community-focused and diverse aspect of the game.

2: How long have you been a thieve?

Launch

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?

About the same. 95% of my play-time is on my Thief.

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

Honestly, the core Thief game-play really hasn’t changed much since launch and neither has the fun-factor.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?

Only in the most general of terms. But as soon as it comes to specific changes I think ANet misses the ball almost every time. They nerf what doesn’t need nerfing, change what isn’t a problem and ignore things that have been broken for ages.

Balance now isn’t any better or worse than it was during launch.

1: What mode do you prefer

(pvp wvw or Pve)

sPvP followed closely by PvE with WvW last. However, I often use my guardian for dungeons in PvE.

2: How long have you been a thieve?
(beta, presale, launch , last year, this year. [hours if you want])

I’ve played since beta, but switched to thief about a year ago I think.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
(shorter periods , longer periods, about the same)

Not sure I understand…I play the vast majority of the time on my thief and play about as much as my life allows (I work a full time job, am married, etc. so I can’t always be online).

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

(yes / no ) why?

Hmm…I’d probably enjoy the class more now. At launch, stealth would drop aggro, which was annoying. Balance in PvP was also a lot worse and while it would have been fun for a bit at first to be able to just heartseeker spam to victory, it would get lame fast.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
try to be as direct about why if possible

yes / no

Overall? Yes.

That being said, there’s plenty I disagree with. Also, just because I agree with the direction doesn’t mean I agree with the implementation. However, when considering their overall perspective of balance and the goals they want to meet, they’re on the right track. I mean it could be worse. Look at what Jumper proposed for balance and he’s one of the top tPvPers, lol.

Other relevant information: anything you think is relevant to your answers
(my answers are bold, to save space)

Well, I think balance is much better in PvP than PvE. There are classes that are clearly better to have in a group than others (compare a Guardian to a Necro). Thieves aren’t in a great position for groups since they tend to be squishier than other classes and bring little more than solid dps, whereas a Guard can bring dps that’s pretty much equal while also bringing tons of reflects, stability, condi removal, fire fields, etc.

There’s no easy way to fix this without breaking PvP, but I personally think that PvE dungeons should be changed so that there’s more steady damage instead of just big hits that are avoidable to make non-dps focused builds and support viable. I also think that blind should be a damage reduction instead of a chance to make a hit miss on bosses. This would make it so that there are more viable builds for PvE and so that the other utilities that classes bring are helpful as well.

1: What mode do you prefer

PVP : SPVP and WVW

2: How long have you been a thieve?
(beta, presale, launch , last year, this year. [hours if you want])

Since launch

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
(shorter periods , longer periods, about the same)

Shorter periods. When I get frustrated about the condition spamming tanks I face I log on to my warrior for easy kills/wins.

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

No, since the PVP has Evolved to condition bunkers, would be frustrating as hell to learn PVP as a thief.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
try to be as direct about why if possible

Yes, mostly. It’s a good thing I don’t PVE though because from what I’ve heard in-game, thieves are completly left behind in regards to PVE in groups.

1: Mostly PvE, some times WvW, rarely PvP

2: Beta – 1,000+ hours

3: About the same amount of time

4: I have 2 Level 80 Thieves: one main and the other just for trophy and another Thief trophy currently at level 22 — it never gets old. Leveling a Thief is fun compare to other professions.

5 : The direction of the balance team is infuriating because nobody in their team plays Thief so they have no basic understanding on how the profession works. Also they are too focus on PvP interaction (sPvP, tPvP, WvW) without regards on how it affect players in PvE.

Also there should be a “Bug Squashing Team” because the Thief profession is littered with bugs. Squash the bugs, then balance the profession.

1: What mode do you prefer? pve

2: How long have you been a thief? BWE1

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve? same amount of time as release day

4: If you started a thief now, would it be as much fun as launch? why? No, the thought of a new character after just having #15 and #16 hit 80 is painful

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team? PvE thieves are one of the few things the balance team has actually done a good job with. They’re (nearly) perfectly balanced and have been, for the most part, unchanged since late 2012.

1: What mode do you prefer

sPvP and WvW (hot join, haven’t done tPvP).

2: How long have you been a thieve?

Beta. Since the 2nd last one.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?

5-40 minutes. Used to for +3 hours. Now it’s as fast as I can get all the bid orders and put up all the items to sell.

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

Yes and No.
Yes, if this was my first time playing the game, just learning this game and being oblivious of problems and other classes.
No, if I was just making a thief alt.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?

No.

1. PvP and WvW.

2. Almost for a year.

3. All the time mostly, switching to engineer, warrior or mesmer while doing tpvp sometimes.

4. Since no brain builds, pets, condition spam and permablock+blind guardians currently rule spvp and tpvp, think not. It’s very challenging to kill any of them and without all my experience it would be really unpleasant to play thief in pvp this current meta, a rank 5 minion master can lock me down and destroy me in 4 seconds without knowing anything at all about my class, if I’m not playing 100%, while I know everything about theirs, this is not balanced in my eyes.

5. Overall yes, but as long as there are these meta builds that are far more superior compared to other builds, variation is missing from pvp. Many condition builds gets way too high burst and defence at the same time, I can kill things just as fast or faster while playing condition necromancer mindlessly spamming conditions while also having really high defence compared to when I play a thief with 15k hp and maxed out on direct dmg. And thieves still need an additional damaging condition for their condition builds, torment and the way it’s implemented was not the answer to that since you pretty much choose between bleed and torment currently.

1: What mode do you prefer

mostly wv3 with a little pve

2: How long have you been a thieve?

a year and change

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?

definitely shorter periods, less days per week, less hours on those days

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

probably… yes, my decrease in game play could be somewhat attributed to some gw2 fatigue, but i also think that the thief gameplay is just a bit off. roaming is ok, but can be boring. havoc is good. zerging is hit or miss. but we’re kind of one trick ponies in all of those situations.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?

not really, they haven’t been really listening to feedback. while i appreciate that balancing is needed i don’t feel our class has been balanced properly in that we’ve received more nerfs without anything to really compensate for them.

Other relevant information: anything you think is relevant to your answers

i really wish the devs would take some time to show us what their intention is for the class and provide better feedback. i tried to get that going a while ago…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Dev-Request-Show-us-how-you-play/

1: What mode do you prefer

I’m a pure PvE player, but I also enjoy roaming in WvW

2: How long have you been a thief ?

I made my thief at launch. Tried other classes, always came back to my roots.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thief ?

Always the same. I’m still not bored of the thief.

4: If you started a thief now, would it be as much fun as launch ?

Some guildies tried to make some thieves lately and said it’s still fun. So I assume it is still a fun class to play.

5 : Do you agree with direction of the balance team?

I don’t agree with their direction, but I don’t think they are the main people to blame. They just listen to the whiners’ feedback and do their job. The plague of this game are the whiners.

Just my little word to end this :

I’m a thief and proud of it. Whiners, you can use the balance team to bash me, slap me and put me on my knees. But I don’t care, because you’re giving me challenge, the challenge of always having to master my class again.
In groups, you are a loud voice and strong force. But don’t forget that when you’re alone, I’m right behind you, hungry for your whines because you’re juste making me better than every of you while I keep playing what you’re trying to destroy.

We are thieves, we are shadows. We do not give up, you will not break us. Watch your backs.

1: What mode do you prefer
WvW

2: How long have you been a thieve?
launch

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
shorter periods

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?
no why? At launch it was clearly OP, atm is under average.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
try to be as direct about why if possible
no, their changes have made viable just a couple of builds destroying all the others.

1: What mode do you prefer

PvE

2: How long have you been a thieve?
3 weeks

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thieve?
shorter periods, christmas is over :P

4: If you started a thieve now, would it be as much fun as launch?

yes, cuz i just started (2.) I think the thief gains 4 out of 5 stars at the fun factor. 5 out of 5 only had engi and mesmer so far.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
… 3 weeks

1. PvE
2. Had a reason to check this recently – played a thief 1,829 hrs 39 minutes over the past 500 days.
3. Shorter. Certain content is simply too difficult for thieves as opposed to other classes to complete so I frequently use those classes. Same reward, less effort, more enjoyment (since I don’t spend as much time downed, dodging, moving in stealth or waiting in stealth and getting rezed).
4. No. The learning curve on a thief is steep. It requires constant attention and situational awareness to play one well. Changes made to the class over the past roughly 16-17 months have slowly eroded the classes effectiveness overall. That coupled with Anet’s recent trend toward heavy condition damage and higher damage content in PvE makes the thief a much poorer choice than it was a launch to tackle most of the newer PvE content. I would probably have started my second character well before reaching lvl 80 as thief and never looked back (even though my thief is my GW1 legacy character).
5. No. It took me some time to start playing additional classes, but once I did I came to understand that the thief didn’t start as a well balanced generally effective class and its treatment by the Anet balance team has only marginalized it further. I will put together a list of what I view as the specific balance issues for Thieves and post later.

1. WvW

2. I don’t remember exactly but I think it was sometime in February 2013 or early March.

3. I’d say longer since I feel I’ve improved a lot and don’t expect death for every fight I enter.

4. I don’t think thieves are as much fun since launch due to all the nerfs. Don’t get me wrong, the nerfs were definitely deserved and I’m not complaining, but from what I’ve heard about launch, it sounds like a great time getting massive backstabs with assassin’s sig or using the super powerful pistol whip :p

5. I agree with the balance team for the most part. Most of their actions seem justified to me, especially with the recent patch. However, I think that they did give sword builds a lot more hate then they deserved.

1: What mode do you prefer
PvE. some WvW.

2: How long have you been a thief?
launch.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thief?
depends. i’m enjoying my ele and war a lot lately but if i feel like playing thief, i’d log and stay on for a while.

4: If you started a thief now, would it be as much fun as launch?
no. nothing is fun in gw2 now.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
don’t really care tbh.

btw it’s ‘thief’ not ‘thieve’.

1: What mode do you prefer
pvp and wvw roaming

2: How long have you been a thief?
I played thief as my main since launch.

3: Compared to when you started, how long can you stay logged on to your thief?
Longer than any other class I play.

4: If you started a thief now, would it be as much fun as launch?
yes. As far as I’m concerned the major mechanics of the thief have not changed that much.

5 : Do you Agree with direction of the balance team?
Yes but not 100%. But in time I think they’ll get there.