Guild Wars 2

[Flanking Strike]

The sword-dagger skill #3: “Flanking strike” has several problems.

1. In general, it’s viability (damage wise and usefulness) in comparison to every other thief weapon set is very questionable.

2. Probably the most major issue with this skill is that it doesn’t follow target. First off, it has a very very short range. If your target is moving and you attempt to use this skill, it will just jump to the right and completely miss the target. It’s nearly impossible to hit a target with this skill; especially when they’re moving.

Overall, I believe this skill truly needs to be reviewed by the devs and be fixed and/or buffed. It really makes sword-dagger builds LESS useful for a thief in comparison to sword-pistol and dagger-dagger.

There’s a reason why you rarely run into a thief using sword-dagger. It just doesn’t match the capabilities of other weapon sets. That should be considered an issue.

Its damage is bloody high for its initiative cost but only if you allow both strikes to hit.

However the problem of it tracking its target is well… a problem especially given that it doesn’t always hit a stationary target let alone moving targets.

Yeah, improve the tracking, perhaps even so far as giving it leap-finisher properties too would help make the skill more reliable.

agreed I’d love to see the target tracking improved if it was I’d definately run a sword dagger spec more often.

I agree, right now all I can use flanking strike is for running about but there are so many better alternatives for that. I tire of seeing my toon “flanking behind the target”(actually flying to the right and losing track of the target altogether) then seeing “Miss” because it actually wasn’t the target’s back. Sometimes when it actually works it spins TOO much and you end up in the same place you were before you executed flanking strike.

welcome to the whining.

As long as C&D+ tactical strike is there, well, at least the set can still be played.

I use Sword/Dagger and love it. I use Infiltrator’s Strike, Dancing Dagger, and Cloack & Dagger frequently. I use flanking strike maybe once an hour. I still love S/D, but I’d love for this skill to be improved.

My main isn’t a thief, but I’ve noticed when using signet of shadows (25% movement speed increase) is the only time Flanking Strike doesn’t hit. You’re moving faster then the skill can account for. This is an error on ANets part. Minor tweeking to adjust for the increased movement speed can be done. At least from my pov that is. Those are my pennies.

I see two ways to resolve this:

1) give a ¼s stun on first hit, remove evade or the boon removal
2) instead of “running around” the enemy, make it shadowstep behind

Or, fix the pathing of it, increase it’s speed, and make it steal (maybe) a boon. You now have a good dual skill. Actually, I would like an increase in all the Swords attack speeds. Its not a greatsword!

Shadowstep would be ideal, but since it would make the action much faster, the evade wouldn’t be active very long. But at least you could hit someone with it. I’d even be happy if it just left me where I was and I whacked them in their face twice.

For now, I pretend my keyboard number keys go from 2 straight to 4.

Zunhar.4079:

Actually, I would like an increase in all the Swords attack speeds. Its not a greatsword!

While I understand that it “feels” slow, an attack speed increase would probably be accompanied with a damage nerf as sword is already very powerful in DPS output, even moreso against multiple targets.

I agree with the premise of the post, that FS could use some love, but the justification that it needs love because “S/D because FS is bad” isn’t very good. FS needs love because FS is bad, but S/D is a pretty solid weapon combination despite that. The beauty of the initiative system is that skills that don’t benefit your current situation (like FS in the vast majority of cases) can simply be skipped over without much negative impact. If your entire argument is “S/D isn’t competitive because of FS” then people will just provide evidence that S/D is a worthwhile setup.

It should just be a teleport behind the target hit.

Agreed, I find I just dont use it because its a liability, I think continuous autoattack might even have higher dps over time im not sure.

Somthing diffrent maybe just slide through the player and stab backwards.

@Tulisin
I’m not saying S/D is bad because of Flanking Strike. I love S/D more than any other build and the 3 second daze (with sigils etc) is quite powerful and useful. I consider it a viable and competitive weapon set. However, I would like to see FS improved, be it through pathing, increased speed, whatever (preferably a pathing fix and the 2nd strike hit faster). I’m sorry if you thought I was complaining about S/D because FS is a little lackluster. That was not my intent at all.

Zunhar.4079:

I’m not saying S/D is bad because of Flanking Strike.

That particular point was aimed at the OP.

Tulisin. Please quote where I stated that S/D was bad. Thank you.

It really makes sword-dagger builds LESS useful for a thief in comparison to sword-pistol and dagger-dagger.
There’s a reason why you rarely run into a thief using sword-dagger. It just doesn’t match the capabilities of other weapon sets. That should be considered an issue.

Don’t pretend that suboptimal and bad aren’t synonymous in this context.

Tulisin.6945:

Zunhar.4079:

I’m not saying S/D is bad because of Flanking Strike.

That particular point was aimed at the OP.

Ah, ok. Just the fact that you quoted me and then go on to talk about “the post” made me assume that you were talking to me.

The responsiveness of the Flanking Strike need to be improved.
This skill’s animation is too long making it almost impossible to hit on a moving target.

The time between the first and second strike needs to be lowered a little bit as well.

@Tulisin. No, less viable does not equate to bad. Less viable means less viable. I run sword-dagger as my main build. Not once did I state it was a bad setup. It is clearly not as efficient as dagger-dagger or sword pistol in any case though. Stick to the facts.

@Phantom:

@Tulisin. No, less viable does not equate to bad. Less viable means less viable. I run sword-dagger as my main build. Not once did I state it was a bad setup. It is clearly not as efficient as dagger-dagger or sword pistol in any case though. Stick to the facts.

Do you know what “viable” actually means? You say you run S/D as your build. You say it isn’t bad. Therefore, it must be viable. If it wasn’t viable, you presumably wouldn’t be able to do anything in game with it. That’s what “not viable” means. If you say something is not viable, that means yes, it’s bad.

And something can’t be “less viable.” It either is or it isn’t. It’s like being “less dead” or “less pregnant.”

/pedantic

For the argumentative guy: Please go look up “viability” for yourself, as you clearly are unaware that certain things can be more viable than others.

On a side note, it would be nice if the discussion stayed on topic about the necessity of Flanking Strike to be improved.

I turn attack assist off(stops you moving through enemys) and i dont have a whole lot of problems with flanking strike, just have to try hit the second strike, which does the same damage as cnd.

By attack assist, do you mean Auto Targeting?

by attack assist i mean what i described, its a extra feature which stops you moving through targets while attacking/targeting them

Ive been running a Sword+ Dagger for Infiltrators strike and hitting multiple targets in Wvs, and Flanking has to be my lest favorite skill out of the weapon set. Its great when I’m dealing with more than one target, because as an Asura, Im already a bit harder to spot, and the fact that this jumps me around a bit more really helps that. But thats all its good for. The damage is good, but only on those rare occasions that you land a hit. Otherwise its just not worth using.

all that needs fixing is the pathing issue..

hits really hard and has a fast and reliable evade.. also rips a boon.. so i wouldnt change anything but fix the pathing issue

You just have to combine two shots into one, then it will be the best for thieves.
But it will be Heartseeker 2.

Wait a dual skill that isn’t spamable as a main attack?!?!?! quick buff the skill, i need m0re spam…. S/D is an incredible set that is by far one of the hardest and most rewarding specs to play, if there needs to b any change on the set its a pathing fix on the skill (which it isnt nearly as bad as you people make it out to be) and possibly make it remove two boons rather then one, or better yet change the remove one boon into steal one boon. To make it more “Thief Like”

Also if your goal is only the damage factor, you do know you can move in between the first and second strikes right? Its just not quickness friendly….o noes.

I have no problems with FS if it doesn’t turn into a spammable, I just want the pathing fixed. The pathing is the only issue imo

They should just make the first hit hit before the dodge, then the second hit after the dodge. It would make it flower better and feel quicker, imo. Other than that, the pathing on the dodge needs worked on, but it’s hard to make it work right on moving targets without getting some ridiculous outcomes.

The skill itself is very good, but they need to either fix the pathing issue or turn it into a shadowstep. If they do turn it into a shadowstep, I feel it should hit with the first hit, then shadowstep behind the enemy and do the second hit.

As a third option, split the skill into two parts., one being the first strike + evade and the second being the second strike. This way I can use the skill, not worry about where the evade will take me and then use the second hit when I’m in range again. Win-win.

I absolutely love S/D it’s very fun to play and has a lot of potential once you get used to playing it, the ONLY thing holding it back is this ability. In PvP at least the sweeping motion of the evade portion before the damage is very long and its hard to reliably land the hits. Currently its a risk to use but I hope to see its tracking improved like others have said so it’s a bit more reliable.

Get rid of the pathing all together, like 90% of the pathing skills/abilities in this game fail, don’t hit or are broken. (still not fixed lol)

The skill should just act as if its hit someone from the side/back, so it benefits from side/back traits etc.