Guild Wars 2

Hi all!

As I’m playing thief more and more, mostly in WvW, I want to get into fractals with her as well. As for the set and gear I use, it’s a combination of zerker and valkyrie with w few soldier pieces in there for high crit damage combined with some survivability. Trait set-up is 0/30/30/10/0, so I do have some toughness as well. I find this build to be extremely rewarding and, more importantly, a lot of fun in WvW. But I have my doubts as to how well it will function in Fractals.

So the thing I want to ask you Fractal playing thieves out there, is advice on how to add the most to the group as a DPS oriented Thief. Tips on utilities, playstyle, trait set-up, perhaps even some new weapons, (I use D/D+SB), without swapping my entire set. Valkyrie exo’s+divinity runes are expensive enough, so I don’t want to purchase whole new gear, and I don’t think it’s nessecary either.

I’ve played a bit of fractals on my warrior, but I get bored with how unchallenging that is. So playing thief in fractals will obviously be a L2P thing for me as well.

Thanks!

I’m in the same situation of starting. I finally have enough laurals to buy an amulet. Can someone explain how you get gear with AR on it? I read that amulets will get an AR infusion sometime. Should I hold off on infusing the amulet I buy? WOuld AR be an offensive, defensive, or utility infusion slot?

I’m between the full zerk amulet, or the zerk amulet with a bit of vitality as the last stat. I’m running 0 / 30 / 10 / 25 / 5 right now. http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mck9ixapVzoqVca

Its a bit different, but it focuses on dodging more than stealth. Infusion of shadow insures I can rotate CnD and backstab continuously. I’ve been thinking about getting Pain Response in acrobatics (30) instead of the 5 into trickery.

Utilities, I like the signet of agility for the precision (which gives me more HP) and condition removal. The other utilities I swap around a lot.

25 30 0 0 15 – thrill of the crime is about all you bring to a group support wise besides stealth resses and skipping trash with SR on occasion. you WILL NOT be able to melee every boss at 1st until you learn the telegraphs etc… but ofcourse melee you will do about 2x the single target dmg. thieves are just really in a bad place in pve right now tho.

AS far as class specific things you need to know on dredge a thief should always do the “gate” (stacking SR/BP etc…) And stealth run bombs if that path is the one that opened.

You get AR by buying a versatile infusion (or what’s it called, the one that gives 5 AR) for 75 fractal relics from the third golem in the fractal starting place. You place that like a gem into the infusion slot, it doesn’t matter what kind of slot it is, it works in all.

More info here:
http://dulfy.net/2012/11/17/gw2-ascended-gear-and-infusion-recipes/

i use MF gear for fractals and still have good dps (with carrion equip it will be better)
I think bleeding is the key.
25 0 0 20 25 d/d – SB
vigor on heal and steal, caltrops on dodge
withdraw as hiling skill (for the short cooldown)
put a couple of poison fields then go melee caltrops everywhere, LDB and go away…
it’s good for trash and static bosses. You should run with ppl that do not use too many conditions.

Best bet is to just give it a try, for the first 9 levels you don’t have to worry about AR at all so you use those to learn the dungeons and tweak your build.

Once you hit level 10 you start earning pristine fractals for every daily maw run which can be use to buy rings or if your lucky get rings drop, at first all your AR will come from the +5 versatile infusion which can be slotted in all ascended items rather than the upgraded items (which is whats meant with the amulets getting infusions eventually)

• Stay alive
• Shadow Refudge to save party member or skip mobs
• Smoke screen very useful in blocking projectile & blind
• Black Powder gives more blinds

I play 0/30/0/25/15 S/P P/P SB & constantly switch out utility/weap/traits for the specific boss encounter or map.

I play 0/30/20/20/0, traits depends on your playstyle and weapons set, but i would recomend to have at least 15 in acrobatics so you could dodge more, specially if you plan to get to the higher lvs.

Nefarious.2014:

Utilities, I like the signet of agility for the precision (which gives me more HP) and condition removal. The other utilities I swap around a lot.

And don t forget you recover full endurance from signet of agility =).

kirito.4138:

• Stay alive
• Shadow Refudge to save party member or skip mobs
• Smoke screen very useful in blocking projectile & blind
• Black Powder gives more blinds

I play 0/30/0/25/15 S/P P/P SB & constantly switch out utility/weap/traits for the specific boss encounter or map.

What about Lotus Poison? Seems useful to apply weakness every time you poison something (both in single target with dagger 1 and multitarget with SB 4).

Full Zerker
15/30/x/x/x (the other 25 points are up to you)
Caltrops / Signet of Agility / Smoke Screen
DD + Shortbow

Pretty standard. Works in Fractals just as well as it works everywhere else. Direct is far better than conditions.

My thief build for lv30/40+ fractals.

Full zerker armor with divinity rune, rampager weapon[have sb, dd, pp in inventory to change depends on situation] and zerker/rampager trinkets.

Hide in Shadow/Caltrops / Shadow Refuge / Smoke Screen

0/30/0/25/15

i use an 0/30/30/10/0 , it works decent for fractals is not the best.
The best utility’s i found for fractals are :
blinding powder ( good panic buton, 1 aoe stealth /blind / heal )
shadow refuge ( better area heal , dark field -lifesteal from projectiles /whirl)
smoke screen ( absorb projectiles , smoke field -blindness with projectiles)
shadow step ( i only use it for jade maw fractal , is good to pick crystals and return safe, or break stun to dodge jade’s attack)
Good Traits : Shadow protector , shadow embrace , vigorous recovery, critical haste, executioner.
Bad common traits :
fleet shadow -very situational
furious retailation – 10 sec furry for 2-5 minutes champion is poor
infusion of shadows and patience – you won’t spam C&D, and you can provide more suport to your team with other traits

Since this week, the two best fractal groups I’ve ever had in 20+ both had 2 thieves in them. I now think that Thieves that say they are in a bad place in PvE are just experiencing l2 kitten ues.

Sadly, because I’ve encountered so many bad thieves for fractals and other dungeons, I’m still very wary when I see them in my groups.

Sebrent.3625:

Since this week, the two best fractal groups I’ve ever had in 20+ both had 2 thieves in them. I now think that Thieves that say they are in a bad place in PvE are just experiencing l2 kitten ues.

Sadly, because I’ve encountered so many bad thieves for fractals and other dungeons, I’m still very wary when I see them in my groups.

- Tells Thieves to L2P and that there’s nothing wrong with them in dungeons.
- Tells Thieves he doesn’t want them in his dungeons.

/facepalm

You misunderstand … I’m wary, as in I get the feeling “oh crud, I hope they are good” … I don’t leave the group or kick them, otherwise I wouldn’t have discovered the beauty of thieves in the other two groups I was in that each had 2 thieves in them.

I see it like this: A bad thief/ranger is a completely wasted slot in a group. A bad guardian, etc. can still be somewhat useful

That being said, I’d trade a bad guardian, etc. for a good thief/ranger any day.

Sebrent.3625:

A bad thief/ranger is a completely wasted slot in a group. A bad guardian, etc. can still be somewhat useful

Hence, it’s not a L2Play issue and both classes could use some help. There are bad players of all classes. I highly doubt that the reason you notice more bad Thieves/Rangers is because more “bads” play those classes. A more plausible explanation is that those classes have drawbacks and weaknesses that make a bad player more obvious and less useful to the group.

Okamakiri.8746:

Sebrent.3625:

A bad thief/ranger is a completely wasted slot in a group. A bad guardian, etc. can still be somewhat useful

Hence, it’s not a L2Play issue and both classes could use some help. There are bad players of all classes. I highly doubt that the reason you notice more bad Thieves/Rangers is because more “bads” play those classes. A more plausible explanation is that those classes have drawbacks and weaknesses that make a bad player more obvious and less useful to the group.

No, it’s an issue of l2p that is exacerbated by the Thief having a higher skill floor in PvE (their PvP skill floor is LOW) and the Ranger having a higher skill floor (largely due to some brokenness). Given two equally skilled players (i.e. no issue of l2p), you’re not going to care much if they are a Thief/Ranger or not unless you’re looking at the capabilities of the group as a whole instead of just those of the player.

The Guardian is loved so much in PvE because it is extremely forgiving in PvE. Failed your dodge roll? No problem, you have Aegis every 40 (30 traited) seconds and a plethora of blocks, etc. you can use. Heck, you even have an invuln trait if you’d like. Couple this with the fact that they can stumble around and provide support and you have a class that is easily able to contribute. Low PvE skill floor. I still don’t want a noob guardian in my groups.

The Warrior is loved so much because honestly their damage in PvE is pretty darn OP (or closely bordering OP) coupled with the fact that they have endure pain as both a trait and a utility. This makes them very forgiving as even noob can still do a good bit during the time they are immune to direct damage. I still don’t want a noob warrior in my groups.

Just by switching around skills and weapons for various fights, Thieves can provide a ridiculous amount of both great damage and great support to their groups. The problem is that many of them are noob and take the same skills they use for their build for PvP (where there is a low skill floor for thieves) and try to use them in PvE (where there is a higher skill floor for thieves)

Cygnus.6903:

kirito.4138:

• Stay alive
• Shadow Refudge to save party member or skip mobs
• Smoke screen very useful in blocking projectile & blind
• Black Powder gives more blinds

I play 0/30/0/25/15 S/P P/P SB & constantly switch out utility/weap/traits for the specific boss encounter or map.

What about Lotus Poison? Seems useful to apply weakness every time you poison something (both in single target with dagger 1 and multitarget with SB 4).

I use Scale Venom consumable

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMkMMc9rx0pfVsqMsV08kiG7khT7kiQ7070M7kGL70V7ofD70m

30 in critical for damage
25 in acrobatics lets me have more dodge , damage and initiative. You can avoid most damage in Fotm by dodging.
15 in trickery lets me have larger initiative pool, more steal and buffs, i switch to uncatchable when running/skipping mobs or neeed to kite bosses.

Sebrent.3625:

… The problem is that many of them are noob and take the same skills they use for their build for PvP (where there is a low skill floor for thieves) and try to use them in PvE (where there is a higher skill floor for thieves)

Given that thief skills mostly don’t change from PvE to PvP (and if they do is for the worse), it only means that most human players are simply easier to deal with than NPCs.

Kyrion.2749:

Sebrent.3625:

… The problem is that many of them are noob and take the same skills they use for their build for PvP (where there is a low skill floor for thieves) and try to use them in PvE (where there is a higher skill floor for thieves)

Given that thief skills mostly don’t change from PvE to PvP (and if they do is for the worse), it only means that most human players are simply easier to deal with than NPCs.

The skills themselves don’t change, you are correct. However, the skills you use can change as you swap utilities and weapons to adapt to the different fights in PvE … it’s what I do on my Mesmer, Ranger, and Elementalist. It’s what I see the good Thieves do. It’s what I don’t see bad Thieves do.

For example, there are an abundance of locations in Fractals where anti-projectile utilities are extremely useful … but you hardly ever see Thieves equip smoke screen for them.

Additionally, players don’t have the substantially larger health pools that veterans have. This health pool gives a thief from quickly bursting something down before it can strike back.

Sebrent.3625:

Okamakiri.8746:

Sebrent.3625:

A bad thief/ranger is a completely wasted slot in a group. A bad guardian, etc. can still be somewhat useful

Hence, it’s not a L2Play issue and both classes could use some help. There are bad players of all classes. I highly doubt that the reason you notice more bad Thieves/Rangers is because more “bads” play those classes. A more plausible explanation is that those classes have drawbacks and weaknesses that make a bad player more obvious and less useful to the group.

No, it’s an issue of l2p that is exacerbated by the Thief having a higher skill floor in PvE (their PvP skill floor is LOW) and the Ranger having a higher skill floor (largely due to some brokenness). Given two equally skilled players (i.e. no issue of l2p), you’re not going to care much if they are a Thief/Ranger or not unless you’re looking at the capabilities of the group as a whole instead of just those of the player.

The Guardian is loved so much in PvE because it is extremely forgiving in PvE. Failed your dodge roll? No problem, you have Aegis every 40 (30 traited) seconds and a plethora of blocks, etc. you can use. Heck, you even have an invuln trait if you’d like. Couple this with the fact that they can stumble around and provide support and you have a class that is easily able to contribute. Low PvE skill floor. I still don’t want a noob guardian in my groups.

The Warrior is loved so much because honestly their damage in PvE is pretty darn OP (or closely bordering OP) coupled with the fact that they have endure pain as both a trait and a utility. This makes them very forgiving as even noob can still do a good bit during the time they are immune to direct damage. I still don’t want a noob warrior in my groups.

Just by switching around skills and weapons for various fights, Thieves can provide a ridiculous amount of both great damage and great support to their groups. The problem is that many of them are noob and take the same skills they use for their build for PvP (where there is a low skill floor for thieves) and try to use them in PvE (where there is a higher skill floor for thieves)

Nonsense. All classes in this game are extremely simple to play. The only “skill” involved is avoiding the damage, and that’s a skill universal to all classes. In high end PVE, these damage abilities are often of one-shot or near one-shot nature, so the only difference between Thieves and other classes is how unforgivable making any mistakes or missing any dodges can be. There’s no higher “skill” cap, only less margin for error. That is neither fun nor good class design. And they bring nothing extraordinary to the group in exchange for this frailty.

You could gear for heavy vitality and toughness to overcome class weaknesses and give yourself some room for error, but then your damage will be awful, your utility is always mediocre at best, so you literally become a waste of a group slot.

Oh, and please enlighten us on these awesome utility options that Thief can provide on fight to fight basis.

Sebrent.3625:

Kyrion.2749:

Sebrent.3625:

… The problem is that many of them are noob and take the same skills they use for their build for PvP (where there is a low skill floor for thieves) and try to use them in PvE (where there is a higher skill floor for thieves)

Given that thief skills mostly don’t change from PvE to PvP (and if they do is for the worse), it only means that most human players are simply easier to deal with than NPCs.

The skills themselves don’t change, you are correct. However, the skills you use can change as you swap utilities and weapons to adapt to the different fights in PvE … it’s what I do on my Mesmer, Ranger, and Elementalist. It’s what I see the good Thieves do. It’s what I don’t see bad Thieves do.

For example, there are an abundance of locations in Fractals where anti-projectile utilities are extremely useful … but you hardly ever see Thieves equip smoke screen for them.

Additionally, players don’t have the substantially larger health pools that veterans have. This health pool gives a thief from quickly bursting something down before it can strike back.

i agree with you on this point :
For example at dredge fractal , dagger storm is usefull to clean trash, at bosses in general basilik vennom is good ( special mention mosman and collosus boss)
On swap fractals Shadowstep is usefull , when you pick the wisp , but on volcanus fractal is useless since there aren’t many stuns and you can use smoke screen to block projectiles, blinidng powder for an extra stealth/regen /cond removal

Sebrent.3625:

Additionally, players don’t have the substantially larger health pools that veterans have. This health pool prevents a thief from quickly bursting something down before it can strike back.

On a side note, this is why Sword/x > Dagger/x, to answer OP’s question on which wpns are best. It baffles me every time I see a thief running D/D in dungeons/fractals, except for those that are too stubborn to put away their Incinerator. They’re not wow rogues that can oneshot mobs.
-Sword cleaves, cripples, and immobilizes with skill 2
-Spammable black powder from /p is far superior to once-every-3-second traited blind-on-stealth that goes away quickly
-Pseudo-dodge with infiltrator’s strike and return
-S/D dual skill evades, removes boons like protection/regeneration on some bosses/vets

Okamakiri.8746:

Nonsense. All classes in this game are extremely simple to play. The only “skill” involved is avoiding the damage, and that’s a skill universal to all classes. In high end PVE, these damage abilities are often of one-shot or near one-shot nature, so the only difference between Thieves and other classes is how unforgivable making any mistakes or missing any dodges can be. There’s no higher “skill” cap, only less margin for error. That is neither fun nor good class design. And they bring nothing extraordinary to the group in exchange for this frailty.

I’m amused that you call it nonsense and then mention that there are differences in how “forgivable” the classes are when making mistakes or missing dodges.

Okamakiri.8746:

You could gear for heavy vitality and toughness to overcome class weaknesses and give yourself some room for error, but then your damage will be awful, your utility is always mediocre at best, so you literally become a waste of a group slot.

Obviously you aren’t getting to the high level fractals where vitality and toughness aren’t going to help you … the way you stay alive in those is to not take damage … watch some high level fractal videos.

Okamakiri.8746:

Oh, and please enlighten us on these awesome utility options that Thief can provide on fight to fight basis.

• Caltrop – 10 seconds of a decent sized AOE that cripples and bleeds enemies in it. Provides some control to better enable kiting
• Smoke Screen – Blocks projectiles and blinds oppponents. Enemies with ranged attacks are some of the most deadly because you can’t kite them
• Shadow Refuge – Enable a break from taking non-AOE damage and heal. Also great for rezzing, the control panel in dredges, etc.
• Blind Powder – weaker version of shadow refuge (stealth-wise) but provides a blind
• Ambush – provides another body to take hits and deal damage

There’s also venom sharing builds that are quite nice to have in groups.
There’s might+fury+swiftness on steal
There’s vigor on steal
There’s regen on stealth

Thief is far more than just “more damage!”. That’s how mouthbreathers think.

scorpion wire is good for splitting/grouping mobs, signet of agilities group endurance fill and condition removal etc etc, basically all the utilities that aren’t just personal damage/mobility are actually great group utilities in certain circumstances, if you actually want to support your team fully you’ll be switching utilities almost every other set of encounters.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m amused that you call it nonsense and then mention that there are differences in how “forgivable” the classes are when making mistakes or missing dodges.

Your point being what exactly? So the higher “skill floor” that you’re referring to is really referring to lack of survivability that Thief has? Hilarious.

Sebrent.3625:

Obviously you aren’t getting to the high level fractals where vitality and toughness aren’t going to help you … the way you stay alive in those is to not take damage … watch some high level fractal videos.

Thanks for supporting my point. There is nothing thieves can do (even at the expense of damage) to reach the level of survivability of other classes. We don’t have access to Protection and Aegis which actually make a difference. As for dodging, getting Feline Grace/Bountiful Theft breaks many builds.

Sebrent.3625:

• Caltrop – 10 seconds of a decent sized AOE that cripples and bleeds enemies in it. Provides some control to better enable kiting
• Smoke Screen – Blocks projectiles and blinds oppponents. Enemies with ranged attacks are some of the most deadly because you can’t kite them
• Shadow Refuge – Enable a break from taking non-AOE damage and heal. Also great for rezzing, the control panel in dredges, etc.
• Blind Powder – weaker version of shadow refuge (stealth-wise) but provides a blind
• Ambush – provides another body to take hits and deal damage

There’s also venom sharing builds that are quite nice to have in groups.
There’s might+fury+swiftness on steal
There’s vigor on steal
There’s regen on stealth

Thief is far more than just “more damage!”. That’s how mouthbreathers think.

Not one of those things is “ridiculous” utility as YOU referred to them. Most of them are forgettable and all of them are replaceable by another class, often better.

- Caltrops – it’s one of our best utilities, I usually have it on my bar. But Rangers’ Muddy Terrain, Spike Trap and Frost Trap all do the same/better job. They can also spec for double duration and damage and 50% increased radius on traps. Pretty sure I’ve seen similar effects from other classes as well. Nothing unique about it.
- Smoke Screen – yeah, it’s nice having a utility skill that’s replaceable by a Guardian weapon skill.
- Shadow Refuge – The best utility we have, and pretty much the only reason that you’d WANT a thief in your group, for stealth rezzing.
- Blind Powder – 3s stealth… even comparing this to SR is just lol. A utility comparable to a combo field. And blind is pretty much useless against any enemies that you would care for it to work.
- Ambush – lol…. this “body” dies in seconds to white mobs open world PVE
- Venom sharing – Requires 30pts in Shadow Arts. Sounds cool on paper but is actually quite weak. One of the most forgettable 30 pt traits…
- Might/Fury/Swiftness on Steal – requires 10 pts in Trickery, tied to a 45s (specced at best 34.5s) cooldown and the 10s buffs are inferior to what other classes can offer with spamable utilities/weapon skills.
- Vigor on Steal – requires 20 pts in Trickery, tied to a 45s (specced at best 34.5s) cooldown. It’s… nice… I guess… if you’re already speccing that high up that crappy tree
- Regen on stealth – Shadow Protector requires 10pts in Shadow Arts and grants a whopping 5s regen when you stealth an ally (20s internal cooldown). Given that stealthing alies is highly situational, a 5s regen is pretty weak utility. Forgettable at best. It’s also bugged that it doesn’t even apply the regen if there is one already on the ally.

There is nothing amazing about thief utility. We’re there for DPS and rezzing. Anything else is just a bonus that most wont even notice.

You’re just another bu**-hurt Ranger spewing biased crap on Thief forums. Go “mouthbreathe” on your own forum.

That’s amusing that your issue is that class A can do this better and class B can do that better but class A couldn’t do both nor could class B.

That guardian has more anti-projectile than you but he can’t place a large AOE cripple/chill.

That Ranger has traps, but he needs to trait them for them to be as big and he can’t stop projectiles.

Blind is excellent when talking about PvE because NPCs attack slowly. This is the reason confusion is seen as weak in PvE.

For Ambush, that body took hits that someone else in your group didn’t. When some hits are insta-gib … that’s helpful. It’s like a sort of Aegis/Blind in that it mitigates 1 attack … though it can also do some damage first and maybe mitigate 2+ attacks.

Venom Sharing is very powerful. It allows your entire group to apply poison (more dmg), immobilize (more CC), weakness (less insta-gib at higher levels), vulnerability (more damage!)

Might/Fury/Swiftness … yep, the classes that can provide more have to spec for it too. The more successful groups have multiple people providing. Now you can contribute.

Vigor on Steal – remove that 30 seconds of protection from the boss and give it to your group. People love it. Only other class that can do that is the Mesmer.

I’m confused why I’m the one who is “kitten” when I’m talking about the good things a Thief can bring.

Also, I’m more Mesmer than Ranger :-p Probably be more Thief than Ranger if they don’t fix the Ranger bugs before I get my Thief’s PvE gear.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m confused why I’m the one who is “kitten” when I’m talking about the good things a Thief can bring.

That’s obvious. Because you’re trying to portray the class as better than it actually is. Calling its lack of survivability a “L2P” problem and our utility “ridiculous”. When I called you out on it and showed that there is nothing “ridiculous” about our utility and that it’s mediocre at best, weaker than everyone else’s at worst, you start backtracking and using strawman argument on how useful some skills can be in some very situational examples. Please do switch to your thief full time. Maybe you’ll start posting less biased crap like your class buddy Columba.

Lol. Scroll up, Okama. There are other’s saying the same thing I am.

Additionally, I used to agree that thieves are horrible in dungeons. Then I met some that were outstanding and that sort of proves that it’s an issue of l2p. They didn’t just do “ok”. Their impact on the fights was easily noticeable.

The Thief is intended to not get hit in a game where that is how you’re supposed to do dungeons. It’s fine.

As far as the utilities being “situational” … what do you think Mesmer’s Feedback and Null Field are? Yeah, they are situational. They are also touted as some of the best group support abilities to have in a dungeon. This is why you are supposed to swap weapons/utilities to best equip yourself for each fight.

As far as backtracking and straw man arguments … where? I see none.

You need to chill and try to actually discuss instead of attacking people.

Lastly, I’m nothing like Columba.

kirito.4138:

Cygnus.6903:

kirito.4138:

• Stay alive
• Shadow Refudge to save party member or skip mobs
• Smoke screen very useful in blocking projectile & blind
• Black Powder gives more blinds

I play 0/30/0/25/15 S/P P/P SB & constantly switch out utility/weap/traits for the specific boss encounter or map.

What about Lotus Poison? Seems useful to apply weakness every time you poison something (both in single target with dagger 1 and multitarget with SB 4).

I use Scale Venom consumable

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMkMMc9rx0pfVsqMsV08kiG7khT7kiQ7070M7kGL70V7ofD70m

30 in critical for damage
25 in acrobatics lets me have more dodge , damage and initiative. You can avoid most damage in Fotm by dodging.
15 in trickery lets me have larger initiative pool, more steal and buffs, i switch to uncatchable when running/skipping mobs or neeed to kite bosses.

This actually sounds pretty sweet. Gonna try this one. You’re geared with berserker and valkyrie also?

In PvE at the moment, I actually run a build that is very similar to that.

Maybe this will make me sound like a n00blet, but I’m often on my shortbow in dungeons. I enjoy the on-demand evade, the poison/weakness field, and I think the blast finisher is priceless in any group. It doesn’t do as much single-target damage as a sword or dagger, but I find that the aoe damage is nothing to sneeze at.

So I’ve just recently started running fractals with some of my friends and guildies and am wondering if anyone could give me some tips. We are currently on lvl 15 and are pushing hard to get to 80 within the next month and a half. As a thief, I know most of the tricks of the trade but would like some feedback on my build or any new ideas. Currently I am running 10/30/30/0/0. Deadly arts has mug most of the time because I need to move around a lot during fractals so the extra damage makes sure I don’t fall behind. The 30 in critical strike are: furious retaliation, combo critical chance, and executioner. These are what I find to be a basic setup for high crits on pistols as well as daggers. Last is shadow arts. I have shadows embrace, shadow protector, and it’s usually a toss up between patience and shadows rejuvenation. This probably makes more sense with my utilities which are blinding powder, and shadow refuge. I leave the third skill open to change for each fight. My heal is almost always hide in the shadows because of how much stealth gives me. I’m running full berserker’s because as most thieves know, we run a very binary class. Your either up doing damage or dead ( or so I’ve come to find out). Any tips on my setup would be wonderful and I would love to here some new ideas. Thanks!

A couple of points: you will not be able to get to level 80 fractals until they add more agony resistance gear, at 50+ agony will start killing the team during maw fights.

Secondly you may want to invest in some defensive gear, thieves are only “binary” if people spec them to be so, they can last a while if they play intelligently and they can bring some decent support at times.

Since you already have experience with your Warrior, then you know when to melee and not to melee.

Before the Feb 28 stealth update, you can just burst target with D/D and stealth to drop aggro. But after that update, I became a more laid back playing it safe with high crit/critdmg P/P using 30/30/0/10/0…very boring IMO.

I’m changing my build to a bit balance with S/D, valkyrie, 0/30/20/20/0. Someone suggested 0/30/20/20/0 here in the forum and I’m taking it for a test drive using S/D.

Rule #1 – Do not get hit by the big stuff as a DPS thief.
Rule #2 – Demonstrate mastery of rule #1 by dodging and not being in the wrong place at all times.

Eh, is there any real point of fractals past 25 other than squeezing in another daily tier? Once you start getting all infused ring chances, anything else I’ve heard has just been rumor/conjecture.

Now for my opinion of fractal builds mentioned:
0/30/30/10/0 – Great for WvW/PvP, but not really fractals. Too many bosses are far to punishing to melee to properly lay in backstabs. You need to be ranged on most of the bosses most of the time as you don’t have the HP/Boons to survive a face punch if you dodge too slow. And there are much better ways to trait your stealthless SB than the SA line.

25/30/0/x/x – This plays better into hitting hard at ranged. 25/30/0/15/0 gives you dodges, and 25/30/0/0/15 gives you a little more needed initiative and Thrill of the Crime. However I’ve found on boss fights your initiative regain to be a bit too limited even on the latter. Stomps trash, though. 25/30/0/15/0 is my favorite distribution for thief.

0/30/0/25/15 – This build steps up with initiative or HP regain options on top of awesome evasion traits. Whether you’re dodging to avoid damage or for might, you should never be at full, so you’ll be using that 10% endurance not full damage. My comment, though, is there are better options. By going 0/30/0/30/10 you give up your initial 3 initiative (as I only consider that opener, has no continued advantage unless you only burst your initiative) for another dodge/initiative/HP trait. I find that to be far more useful.

New options:
10/30/0/30/0 – Like the other, but you give up Thrill of the Crime for hard hitting steals or tons of vulns. I tend to use Sundering Strike. If you use SB a lot, 15/30/0/25/0 means your chocking gas will be laying in a constant weakness.

10/30/0/20/10 – This is a build I like to use in standard dungeons as I find it to be pretty versatile. I keep the vulns up on the target increasing entire party DPS, good initiative regen, and I have the option of caltrops on dodge for trash and thrill on bosses. Now if the party already has good vuln access (Warriors/Necros/vuln traited mesmer), I would go to the 0/30/0/30/10.

The actual traits you choose in each group depends on your weapon choice and play style, though I can break those out on what I would use if you give me your preferred point choice and weapons. One thing I would note is in the Critical Strikes tree, I would consider Practiced Tolerance over Critical Chance or Haste – 1-2k HP from a single trait vs what should already be high crit chance/something that doesn’t help DPS if you’re already at initiative regen limits is an easy choice to me.