Fragile Thief?
Get more toughness, do PVE leveling with sword/pistol, drop #5 when you fight multiple mobs, then auto attack them down.
sword/pistol + shortbow when leveling. you should be able to fight enemies 10 levels above you.
All is vain.
Yup. Thieves are extremely squishy. They make up for it with unparalleled avoidance… eventually. Much like mesmers, their true strength takes some levels and practice to tease out. Life changed for me at 40, when I could sink into the master tier of Shadow Arts or Acrobatics (doing both was amusing, but unnecessary). Prior to that, I spent a lot of time pistol/pistol kiting.
Take heart, you’re not alone. Whenever I’m wandering with my friends in the level 30ish areas, we always seem to attract stray thieves looking for any means to not have to solo. It’s become a running joke that we’re running a thief adoption agency. It’s a tough time in their lives and a second HP sack by their side makes all the difference in the world. If all else fails, find a group and follow them like a lost puppy.
Thanks all, I’ll give these suggestions a try.
Do traits matter much at this point or should I stick with what I have?
Thieves can avoid most of the stuff in PvE overworld. The problem is we’re so squishy that in dungeons and fractals, the things Anet is expanding upon, we can’t keep up. Doing fractals above lvl 20 with a thief is suicide. People don’t want you in groups.
Even with 30 points in shadow arts and stacking toughness gear ( and tons of healing abilities/traits) I go down alot more with my thief than of the other classes in dungeons and fractals. Anet really needs to address how squishy we are for a melee class. Because avoidance just doesn’t work when being attacked by huge groups of mobs, and many bosses.
The problem is thieves are forced to kill mobs quickly in order to survive, this doesn’t happen in dungeons/fractals. So we end up being dead weight that need to be rezzed more than the other classes. Anet seriously needs to address this issue.
I also found my self tasting dirt, and it came to a point that I stored playing my thief. But just found the sweet spot. Dagger is a boss weapon in pve due to it’s single target oriented damage. s/p it’s best to lvl up. S far traits go acrobatics first if you see yourself dying to often. also get some toughness.
If you really want to play dagger your main focus will be using CnD often.
Dante El Nazgul – Thief
Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Ele
Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Ele
Thieves can avoid most of the stuff in PvE overworld. The problem is we’re so squishy that in dungeons and fractals, the things Anet is expanding upon, we can’t keep up. Doing fractals above lvl 20 with a thief is suicide. People don’t want you in groups.
Even with 30 points in shadow arts and stacking toughness gear ( and tons of healing abilities/traits) I go down alot more with my thief than of the other classes in dungeons and fractals. Anet really needs to address how squishy we are for a melee class. Because avoidance just doesn’t work when being attacked by huge groups of mobs, and many bosses.
The problem is thieves are forced to kill mobs quickly in order to survive, this doesn’t happen in dungeons/fractals. So we end up being dead weight that need to be rezzed more than the other classes. Anet seriously needs to address this issue.
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.
Congratulations, just because you have no problems doesn’t mean nobody else does either. If you’re saying that a melee thief, built for toughness, is just as survivable as a guardian or warrior in a lvl 38 fractal, I call bullkitten on that, especially considering all the stuff that can 1-shot you at.
(edited by FWB.1704)
Thieves can avoid most of the stuff in PvE overworld. The problem is we’re so squishy that in dungeons and fractals, the things Anet is expanding upon, we can’t keep up. Doing fractals above lvl 20 with a thief is suicide. People don’t want you in groups.
Even with 30 points in shadow arts and stacking toughness gear ( and tons of healing abilities/traits) I go down alot more with my thief than of the other classes in dungeons and fractals. Anet really needs to address how squishy we are for a melee class. Because avoidance just doesn’t work when being attacked by huge groups of mobs, and many bosses.
The problem is thieves are forced to kill mobs quickly in order to survive, this doesn’t happen in dungeons/fractals. So we end up being dead weight that need to be rezzed more than the other classes. Anet seriously needs to address this issue.
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.
how much dmg do you do against the 3 champs in the first room of the harpy lvl? all champs 1 with great burst 1 with great hp and AOE KDs…one with aoe dmg and burning. prolly use ur shortbow here? ping ping ping. engineer….ranger…everyone outdmgs u here. fact is yes we can get by….but we also can do the output many others do. we are inferior in that aspect.
how much dmg do you do against the 3 champs in the first room of the harpy lvl? all champs 1 with great burst 1 with great hp and AOE KDs…one with aoe dmg and burning. prolly use ur shortbow here? ping ping ping. engineer….ranger…everyone outdmgs u here. fact is yes we can get by….but we also can do the output many others do. we are inferior in that aspect.
I run 25-30-10-0-5 with dagger/dagger an d swort/pistol and I would say I outdps EVERY ranger or engineer.
With an organised team you guardian will pull aggro of the Ethin while your team burst the other 3 enemies down. Smoke Screen, Wall of Reflection and other things like that + dodging will help you to avoid every dmg… I really don’t see any problem here. I didn’t done it at higher fractals but since they onehit me at lvl 48 it won’t become harder at level 79…. there is no difference between dying from 20k dmg or dying from 40k dmg
[rT]
(edited by Anubarak.3012)
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.Congratulations, just because you have no problems doesn’t mean nobody else does either. If you’re saying that a melee thief, built for toughness, is just as survivable as a guardian or warrior in a lvl 38 fractal, I call bullkitten on that, especially considering all the stuff that can 1-shot you at.
Melee Thief here, running 48s with no problems. Dodge, blind, LOS, interrupt. Swap to Shortbow and spam Clusters/Area Weakness when sensible eg. some Ascalon Fractal spots with too much crossfire to safely prevent, or when kiting the final boss in the Dredge Fractal.
Thieves don’t survive by sponging like a Warrior or Guardian. They survive by not getting hit at all.
If you build for Toughness, you’re doing absolutely everything wrong.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
(edited by Auesis.7301)
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.Congratulations, just because you have no problems doesn’t mean nobody else does either. If you’re saying that a melee thief, built for toughness, is just as survivable as a guardian or warrior in a lvl 38 fractal, I call bullkitten on that, especially considering all the stuff that can 1-shot you at.
Melee Thief here, running 48s with no problems. Dodge, blind, LOS, interrupt. Swap to Shortbow and spam Clusters/Area Weakness when sensible eg. some Ascalon Fractal spots with too much crossfire to safely prevent, or when kiting the final boss in the Dredge Fractal.
Thieves don’t survive by sponging like a Warrior or Guardian. They survive by not getting hit at all.
If you build for Toughness, you’re doing absolutely everything wrong.
First off, spamming SB clusters isn’t melee. Just incase you didn’t know, melee means face to face combat, not ranged combat. Secondly I’m sure Anet would love to hear that making a thief with toughness is playing the game wrong. I’m pretty sure they multiple viable builds, not just 1-2 for each class.
That’s why I run fractal 38 multiple times per day as a thief with 0 problems.
Step up your game.Congratulations, just because you have no problems doesn’t mean nobody else does either. If you’re saying that a melee thief, built for toughness, is just as survivable as a guardian or warrior in a lvl 38 fractal, I call bullkitten on that, especially considering all the stuff that can 1-shot you at.
Melee Thief here, running 48s with no problems. Dodge, blind, LOS, interrupt. Swap to Shortbow and spam Clusters/Area Weakness when sensible eg. some Ascalon Fractal spots with too much crossfire to safely prevent, or when kiting the final boss in the Dredge Fractal.
Thieves don’t survive by sponging like a Warrior or Guardian. They survive by not getting hit at all.
If you build for Toughness, you’re doing absolutely everything wrong.
First off, spamming SB clusters isn’t melee. Just incase you didn’t know, melee means face to face combat, not ranged combat. Secondly I’m sure Anet would love to hear that making a thief with toughness is playing the game wrong. I’m pretty sure they multiple viable builds, not just 1-2 for each class.
Using a ranged weapon isn’t melee? REALLY!? ARE YOU MAD?! Yes, I am well aware. It is a rare occasion where an entire party can go in to melee range in every encounter in the entire game at 48+. I provided examples of the very few places where melee is not the ideal solution, but apart from that, melee is the way to go.
It essentially is. Look at the nature of the class. The majority of skills blind, evade or displace you, and even an entire trait line is dedicated to boosting evasive capabilities, as well as another traitline that’s dedicated to the ability to remove aggro for periods of time. The entire ethos of Thief is mobility and elusiveness, and by extension, avoiding getting hit. Not only does investing in Toughness increase aggro on you from all trash and make your life just a little more difficult, it also cuts in to your outgoing damage by a noticeable amount. If I wanted to balance out Toughness, I’d just take my Warrior, but it doesn’t matter. At L48+ Fractals, defensive stats become mostly worthless – you dodge or you die. It’s a good thing that Thieves have so many ways to mitigate damage without physically beefing themselves up. 2.3k-2.4k Armor is about the maximum I would ever suggest when investing in Toughness. Heavy investment becomes a waste for Thieves.
Gnome Child [Gc]
Resident Thief
Resident Thief
(edited by Auesis.7301)
@Auesis I like you… There are so many people that have no idea how to play a thief, so I’m happy everytime when I see one (or in this case when I’m reading their texts)
[rT]
@Auesis I like you… There are so many people that have no idea how to play a thief, so I’m happy everytime when I see one (or in this case when I’m reading their texts)
What this guy said.
Without going into end-game discussions that end up in flame wars:
+ Off-hand pistol has infinite blind. It works against anything non-dredge.
+ Dredge use Protection (+30% damage reduction). Steel that with sword/dagger.
+ Take out ranged attackers ASAP. You can pull 2 together with Scorpion Wire.
+ On subject of ranged, Smoke Screen blocks all projectiles for 7 seconds. Love it.
+ If initiative regeneration is too slow, Sword/Dagger can give cheap stealth.
To respond on your question regarding traits:
+ Go into Shadow arts for Shadow Protector immediately. Permanent regeneration.
+ Go into Acrobatics for Vigorous Recovery with Withdraw. Permanent vigor.
+ Now that you can blind, regenerate and dodge constantly, drop into damage.
For gear:
+ Focus on Power, Precision and Critical Damage (In that order).
+ If you feel you need more defense, mix some pieces of ‘Knights’ (Tough/Power/Pre).
+ Low level you just need to focus on Mighty gear (Power).
This should you give a fundamental begin. I hope it helps.
Active: Mesmer, Warrior
Inactive: Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Thief (ex-main)
Leveling: Engineer, Necromancer
Inactive: Guardian, Elementalist, Ranger, Thief (ex-main)
Leveling: Engineer, Necromancer
(edited by Deathspike.1870)
Every class has a pretty steep learning curve once you get a hold of the basics. For a thief all you really need to get by is the basics. However they have a very steep curve after that.
Tip one
Manage your initiative
keep, count in your head over time it just becomes second nature to know you can do this move this move and this move and in one second I can use this move. Don’t burn it recklessly you never know when a fight’s going to go sour. IE getting knocked down is pretty much game over. Have some form of stun breaker JUST in case you get knocked down. Some classes are fine, a thief will not be.
- Know when to back out
The best thief’s I ever fought never gave me a chance to fight back. I was dead before I even knew I was getting thief’ed by some dirty thief. Get in, get out don’t hang out. Clean and quick.
As of now your comfort zone is one to two mob types (that’s how I started out as well), mine now is about 10-15.
Knowing the type of monster you’re fighting helps A LOT they have skills that have cool downs also. IE a risen brute ALWAYS leads with his knockdown skill and it’s about a 10 second cooldown give or take. Wasps do a TON of damage if you just stand there they have a huge rapid attack but can’t move, it’s channeled.
I read earlier about ranged enemies. This is true your biggest asset as a thief is being mobile. Move around the fight, don’t wait till you get hit to dodge do it preemptively better safe than knocked down. DO NOT just stand there and auto attack and trade blows. you are not a guardian you are not a warrior you are a thief you have to hit without being hit etc 90% of the time I don’t even get off my full auto attack combo before backing off. Learn how to melee kite with dagger 5 and dagger 3. NEVER NEVER heart seeker spam unless they are under 25% health and YOU KNOW you have enough initiative to kill them. Also never heart seeker spam if there is more than one enemy. This goes back to rule number 2. You burn it, you’re out of options.
Steal, and steal often
this move is a free shadow step and sometimes a get out of free jail card.
Here is an advanced tactic I use when dealing with very large mobs
Steal Kiting
Keep at least one enemy perm crippled (dagger 4 works best)
While kitting the mob if things to bad you can shadow step to him with steal since he is separated from the group due to the speed difference. Giving you a few seconds to kitten your next move (or you can use sword 2 and sword two again when mob catch up.) I prefer steal cause If i’m trouble I’d rather not waste initiative if I don’t have to.
Rally Abuse
Sometimes I make mistakes, get caught on terrain did a heart seeker one to many times or just got gibbed from knockdown before I could react.
Just because an enemy is low health doesn’t mean you should kill it. worst case scenario where you would not kill the low hp enemy.
Heal is cd, stealths CD, initiative burnt, less then 10% hp danger of getting spiked by mob. few enemies low hp. Get one enemy as close to death as you can WITHOUT killing him. Rally on down. Rinse and repeat as needed just don’t do it 4 times in a row.
This can even work in some pvp wvw situations as long as you drop some stealth’s before you go down and you’re team can finish them off.
Bleed out/mixed mobs
If the mobs creatures are of a different type they will fight each other especially neutral monsters and aggressive ones. Pull aggressive monsters to the neutrals and attack the neutrals, pop stealth once they are in mob. They take argo to each other and kill each other for you. Spam dagger 3 and collect your loot. I do this when farming certain areas. Makes fighting mobs larger than 10 a snap.
My last tip is don’t get caught up in the which gear is best which traits are best this player is amazing I’ll use his build crap. Theory crafting is fun and I personally really enjoy it hooowever if you get into this is the best build crap you’ll never really learn the character. Dump 30 points into an entire tree line get a feel for that tree line mix and match them. Don’t stress if it’s “good” or not. Find what works for you. Cause some elitist build that’s been speced for years may not fit your play style. Maybe going perm stealth isn’t your thing, maybe it is. Figure that out through trial and error and LEARN the class. This is what i’ve learned from playing the game, there are alot more advanced techniques like managing conditions on you and the enemy, boon’s and boon theft combo fields etc. But just knowing the basics will give you a solid stepping stone for when you learn more about the class and game.
Thanks for taking the time to put together some tips and general advice everyone. I’m much more effective and having a lot more fun.