Guild Wars 2

I’m really quite enjoying my thief, but my regular friends I play with are all telling me to play any other class at all. Honestly are thieves in that bad a place atm? Or is it one of those things there the class just has a stigma around it?

I never .. ever.. play SPvP. But I do quite enjoy WvW & PVE content.

thief is okish in pve and playable I guess in wvw. In spvp…. yeah.

I don’t spvp at all.. like ever.. so i guess that’s ok then? lol so basically my buds are full of it?

As a veteran thief I’ll say this: if you enjoy the class and perform well with it, stick with it. While extreme however, they aren’t wrong. Spvp is an area we are the worst in, whereas WvW we are still roamers, but you’ll have a difficult time against an experienced roamer of another class. As for PvE, it’s not like we are terrible, it’s just that there are better options- I hate to say it. There are other class options that can take a hit and still offer the same amount, if not more dps.

Thief is fine atm just need a little tweak on Health Stat
Cause 1 burst of elite mob can cause instant death for thief
yes, thief can tank elite mob if you build it right
and Spvp you will be focus mostly on capture the point and decap the point
WvW you are a beast in stealth mode and kite master if play right
play it if you like thief just dont brainless dodge you will be fine

hmmm i guess i have something to think about…

not sure what other classes would interest me….. maybe a rev or necro…

Why the heck would you change? If you like it, stick with it.
Yeah, thieves aren’t exactly in a good place, but they can manage.

Thieve’s are not in a good spot, however I would never ever switch my main if I enjoy it, especially not because others tell me to.
Continue playing thief and you can make it work, that’s what I have done and while my opponents hate me for kiting with P/P, they also hate me when I weapon swap to Staff and outplay them there… not a big deal, just continue playing thief and make it work

Tarkan.5609:

Thieve’s are not in a good spot, however I would never ever switch my main if I enjoy it, especially not because others tell me to.
Continue playing thief and you can make it work, that’s what I have done and while my opponents hate me for kiting with P/P, they also hate me when I weapon swap to Staff and outplay them there… not a big deal, just continue playing thief and make it work

it’s easy to outplay noobs, doesnt necessarily mean your build is viable :P

We seem to currently have a lower ceiling than other builds. Although this has been my experience from playing Thief in sPvP, I primarily base this conclusion more on how pro teams have shifted away from using Thieves in tournaments and how considerably more effective pro players are with some of the newer, non-Thief elites. Just watching Phantaram, Sindrener, and Tarcis play Revenant paints a rather night and day kind of comparison when their effectiveness in Unranked games is compared to Thief streamers, like Caed and Sizer.

I’m not certain how the developers could miss using such a tool for comparing the effectiveness of classes. I hope it’s not because they aren’t especially passionate about their occupations. That would be rather sad for both them as well as those of us who attempt to use this game and the Thief class as a means to healthfully challenge our minds. Either way, if you play Thief and stick with this game, you’ll probably find yourself in a position where you learn to expect to contribute less in a variety of situations. If that doesn’t sound enjoyable, I would suggest taking up a different class before you get too attached to Thief mechanics.

Nearly poetic!
I do wonder what

rennlc.7346:

We seem to currently have a lower ceiling than other builds.

means though.

ETA: on topic
If you stick to thief you’ll do fine with a little practice in pve, but never expect to be able to 1 vs 1 anyone, even in wvw (don’t know about staff though).
I abandoned my first main (ranger 2 years ago when they were a bit weaker) because I felt I couldn’t make him work as my other 2 toons did things more effectively and I had absolutely no clue about them – that was in pve though (yes, I was a noob).
So in the end: Thief is really weak right now, if you’re okay with that stick to it, if you’re tired of losing roll any other class.

If you enjoy the class, you’ll probably play better on it than on a class you don’t like as well, anyway.

Unless your friends are trying to beat the CoF path 1 speed run record time, then why do they care if you’re playing a thief?

Teevell.1684:

Unless your friends are trying to beat the CoF path 1 speed run record time, then why do they care if you’re playing a thief?

It has to do with a player’s motivation. Some of us are more inclined to min/max and use what we find most effective rather than what we find humorous (although perhaps not so inclined to min/max to switch to Revenant just yet). If you aren’t this way, the best way I can think of describing it is it functions like an itch. If I play a “fun for the sake of fun” build which is in no way concerned with increasing my chances of winning, it’s like invoking a terrible itch and the only way to make it stop is to switch to something more effective for accomplishing a goal, such as winning. An easy way to tell where people tend to fall within this spectrum would be to see their responses to a trait like Ricochet, which was enjoyable to many for a variety of reasons but by no means close to being optimal.

assassin.7895:

it’s easy to outplay noobs, doesnt necessarily mean your build is viable :P

I wouldn’t call thief viable anyway.

it’s a build i play around with because of good ranged damage, good melee damage, mobility and kiting ability (and because it’s something else than S/D)
my main point doesnt have anything to do with my build though, if you continue to play thief you may not get the same results as playing for the same time with other professions but a main is not a main if you switch it every time it’s worse than other professions

Jana.6831:

Nearly poetic!
I do wonder what

rennlc.7346:

We seem to currently have a lower ceiling than other builds.

means though.

It means we don’t currently do enough well enough to justify a role in a more competitive and/or optimized situation. It’s kind of sad too because Daredevil is such a cool addition and it can be so strong against the less optimal and sustaining builds with D/P, S/D, and Staff (even D/D condi has its moments now!). In fact, it might be so good at what it does in the right hands that people are switching from their initially preferred power builds to bruisers, DHs, and Heralds. It’ll make ESL games fun to watch because with such a strong bias toward specific compositions, it’ll be more about mechanics and decision-making than perhaps ever before. Unfortunately for us, however, it’s proving to make Thief, or rather the initiative mechanic of Thief, obsolete. Sustain and team-fighting is of such greater importance. The funeral people did for this class was premature but also seemingly clairvoyant.

just do not expect thieves to get buffes any time soon. Anet prefers other classes way more

rennlc.7346:

Teevell.1684:

Unless your friends are trying to beat the CoF path 1 speed run record time, then why do they care if you’re playing a thief?

It has to do with a player’s motivation. Some of us are more inclined to min/max and use what we find most effective rather than what we find humorous (although perhaps not so inclined to min/max to switch to Revenant just yet). If you aren’t this way, the best way I can think of describing it is it functions like an itch. If I play a “fun for the sake of fun” build which is in no way concerned with increasing my chances of winning, it’s like invoking a terrible itch and the only way to make it stop is to switch to something more effective for accomplishing a goal, such as winning. An easy way to tell where people tend to fall within this spectrum would be to see their responses to a trait like Ricochet, which was enjoyable to many for a variety of reasons but by no means close to being optimal.

Having gamed online for years, I am well aware of this personality. But you kept saying “If I…” not “If my friends…” It’s fine if someone doesn’t want to play suboptimal builds, but there’s no reason to harp on your friends if they find something else fun.

Anything works in WvW and PvE.

Sagat.3285:

Anything works in WvW and PvE.

Depends on what you’re doing – if running with a zerg, well, good luck but you can do a lot of damage. If you’re the +1 you might be helpful. 1 vs 1? forget it.

In PvE I use DA, CS, T and have troubles with conditions pretty often. That might be different if I had a really good party to do dungeons and fractals but I haven’t. So I change from DA to SA in fraktals and hope for the best in some dungeons.

ETA: You can run away in pvp as that is basically “your role” and you have 4 people who have your back – in wvw you don’t.

Jana.6831:

Sagat.3285:

Anything works in WvW and PvE.

Depends on what you’re doing – if running with a zerg, well, good luck but you can do a lot of damage. If you’re the +1 you might be helpful. 1 vs 1? forget it.

In PvE I use DA, CS, T and have troubles with conditions pretty often. That might be different if I had a really good party to do dungeons and fractals but I haven’t. So I change from DA to SA in fraktals and hope for the best in some dungeons.

Truly depends but in zergs venom share is alright open PvE well you set your difficulties anything can still work.

Sagat.3285:

Truly depends but in zergs venom share is alright open PvE well you set your difficulties anything can still work.

I don’t use venomshare but I know I do a lot in zergs – but still I’m lucky to survive most of the time – and I’ve been running with zergs (with a break of half a year) for 2 years – someone new won’t have much fun in zergs.

Just wanted to add to my previous post. The best players in wvw are solo roamers (I currently don’t count myself to that btw – I wrote that in my signature so people don’t assume I’m talking about pvp as I always forget to add where I’m coming from) – the best gvg gild behaves “surprise” like solo roamers in a bunch – they have each other’s back but they are pretty much independend.

ETA: SO In pvp you can rely on your team, in wvw you might – I hope you get what I mean. You can survive while others heal you and whatnot but you and your server will be more successful if you’re able to care for yourself.

ETA²: Same goes for pvp but in wvw it’s not about capping points but killing each other (and then cap points for supply and some loot – oh and nodes). The thing that kills me in pvp is that everything is so small – it’s easier to evade dodge and whatnot in wvw.

Thief is a +1 class now, apparently. Our burst DPS role has been largely taken on better by other classes, as has a number if other former thief competencies. If you want toe anything more than a nub killer you will need to run with a pack or reroll.

Depends on build, the problem is that most thieves still havent get out of the berzerker stats meta, thats why they keep being destroyed

I decided to move away from it and made 2 different builds with my daredevil, trying to play it the way arenanet seems to seems them by the new dodge mechanics and DD runes

And im having a total blast

For pvp i use an evasion conditions based build with dire stats (carrion in spvp) with d/d and lotus training wich just destroys anyone that isnt using a trap/wells based build. Great survability, massive condition cleanse, 90% evasion uptime, 30+ aoe bleed stacks and great hp regen thanks to the synergy of lotus and blosson with SoM. Played well no class outside the mentioned above can kill you; they will wave their arms trying to hit you as you fly around them bleeding them to death

The second build i made was for daily pve content wich uses soldier armor/wep with berzerker accesories, sigils of the night,sigils of accuracy, DD runes, staff +p/p or sb, result: 2.7k armor, 44% crit with prescicion signet (51% if we count the flanking trait crit Buff) 2.6k power with 18k hp; pretty survivable with its nice armor, hp, dodges when you start to see them as part of your rotacion instead of just survival tools, fast staff hits that also synergy pretty well with SoM and And still pretty nice aoe dmg with 3k bound dodges and 8k vault, 3k WC

So my suggestion is: get.out of the friking berserker meta, berserker thief is dead, puff kaput, play DD thief as it.was created.to be played.and you will see how fun and powerfull class is

Tora.7214:

Depends on build, the problem is that most thieves still havent get out of the berzerker stats meta, thats why they keep being destroyed

I decided to move away from it and made 2 different builds with my daredevil, trying to play it the way arenanet seems to seems them by the new dodge mechanics and DD runes

And im having a total blast

For pvp i use an evasion conditions based build with dire stats (carrion in spvp) with d/d and lotus training wich just destroys anyone that isnt using a trap/wells based build. Great survability, massive condition cleanse, 90% evasion uptime, 30+ aoe bleed stacks and great hp regen thanks to the synergy of lotus and blosson with SoM. Played well no class outside the mentioned above can kill you; they will wave their arms trying to hit you as you fly around them bleeding them to death

The second build i made was for daily pve content wich uses soldier armor/wep with berzerker accesories, sigils of the night,sigils of accuracy, DD runes, staff +p/p or sb, result: 2.7k armor, 44% crit with prescicion signet (51% if we count the flanking trait crit Buff) 2.6k power with 18k hp; pretty survivable with its nice armor, hp, dodges when you start to see them as part of your rotacion instead of just survival tools, fast staff hits that also synergy pretty well with SoM and And still pretty nice aoe dmg with 3k bound dodges and 8k vault, 3k WC

So my suggestion is: get.out of the friking berserker meta, berserker thief is dead, puff kaput, play DD thief as it.was created.to be played.and you will see how fun and powerfull class is

In short buy HoT and play DD.

You can get away with playing zerker in core game, but in Hot content you are severely holding back your thief by playing it as a fragile assassin when is obvios that they have evolved into kungkittenmonks now xD

(seriously anet? I cant say the martial art name without being sensured by chat filter?)

Tora.7214:

You can get away with playing zerker in core game, but in Hot content you are severely holding back your thief by playing it as a fragile assassin when is obvios that they have evolved into kungkittenmonks now xD

(seriously anet? I cant say the martial art name without being sensured by chat filter?)

See that is how they think all players in this game are. “Oh something else is faceroll OP, ok, then I’ll play that”.
Reference:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-road-ahead-for-2015/
" Once every quarter, we’ll release a new, major balance update to shake up the meta for the next quarter."

I’m not like that, my friends are not like that – it’s really hard to get used to a class to be able to play it in “high competive pvp/wvw” switching every quarter makes no sense but that depends on how anet will manage that if they make the flavour of the quarter class faceroll OP, then things might work out – but I’m pretty sure a lot of people won’t be happy. And then they think they can get the people back with another class/expansion while all they wanted was balance and bug fixes. But alas, maybe I’m wrong.

ETA: If you read a bit earlier in that link you’ll read that they apperantly don’t intend to balance anymore.

There are only two questions you need to ask:

1, Do you enjoy playing the thief?
2, Do you perform well using the thief?

If you answer yes to both, ignore everything else anyone tells you. It is 100% irrelevant what others think about the profession, if you enjoy it and can perform well with it then there is no reason to play another profession (unless you want to of course).

Jana.6831:

See that is how they think all players in this game are. “Oh something else is faceroll OP, ok, then I’ll play that”.
Reference:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-road-ahead-for-2015/
" Once every quarter, we’ll release a new, major balance update to shake up the meta for the next quarter."

I’m not like that, my friends are not like that – it’s really hard to get used to a class to be able to play it in “high competive pvp/wvw” switching every quarter makes no sense but that depends on how anet will manage that if they make the flavour of the quarter class faceroll OP, then things might work out – but I’m pretty sure a lot of people won’t be happy. And then they think they can get the people back with another class/expansion while all they wanted was balance and bug fixes. But alas, maybe I’m wrong.

ETA: If you read a bit earlier in that link you’ll read that they apperantly don’t intend to balance anymore.

Yeah, that sounds a lot like how MOBAs work, with patches every ~2-ish weeks, which works fine for that game type. I know this game is trying to be an esport, but shaking up the meta every couple months is not what makes MOBAs popular esports.

Thief player here. In fact, I only have one character and that’s a thief. I can tell you that they aren’t the absolute best in any way or form. All other classes trump us in one way or another. However, that doesn’t mean we suck or are unplayable. I hold my own in all areas of the game whether it is SPVP, WVW, or PVE. The important thing is to know how to play your character in each situation at hand. I rotate and change my build multiple times throughout the day depending on what the gameplay is looking like. I love my thief and probably won’t quit it unless Anet just decides to take it entirely out of the game, but that’s not going to happen lol.

Thief player here as well…was my first character and still is my preferred character. I’d say run… ANY other class is more playable. You can get along ok in PVE (you’ll die far more often than any other class). WVW you lost your only advantages with HOT’s release (stealth and speed compared to other classes), and in PVP thief is pretty much worthless at the moment. Unless ANET suddenly wakes up one day and decides for a total overhaul I suggest saving yourself and your friends hours of frustration and choose ANY other class.

Thief is essentially the hardest profession to play and the most thoroughly disadvantaged. If you still enjoy it knowing that, then by all means go ahead, especially if you plan to spend most of your time in PvE.

I find my condi D/D thief pretty amazing with sinister. I did not even have all my gear to 80 and died less than some of my other characters (with full 80 gear and ascended trinkets) when roaming the HoT maps. Heck, I did not get downed in the story missions in VB. I can even take out mobs of vets solo. This was also before I learned to use stealth to take that blasted aggro off of me since all the mobs hate me.

Of course, take away the venom heals and put in DD and not sure yet if I lose the survivability or will maintain it in a different sense. I know I died when I Leeroy’d a hoard of ten or so enemies, but that is kind of to be expected when learning a new method. I am confident I will obtain the survivability again.

I never liked thief but now… hmm, she became one of my mains. Leaves only ele and mes as my unliked alts at this point. Guard is so-so anymore. Never had complaints when I play in groups with any of my characters though so… maybe you just gotta get better friends that are not going to tell you how to play the game/have fun.

sticx.5823:

I’m really quite enjoying my thief, but my regular friends I play with are all telling me to play any other class at all. Honestly are thieves in that bad a place atm? Or is it one of those things there the class just has a stigma around it?

I never .. ever.. play SPvP. But I do quite enjoy WvW & PVE content.

Ever consider that the problem is not the Thief?

Perhaps you’re just bad at playing Thief that you die a lot, which will annoy anyone.

And maybe based on your playstyle, your friends are suggesting that the Thief may not be a good match.

I play Thief for everything but tend to use something else for Spvp and Fractals unless I’m really bored. Which is usually Reaper… cuz it’s just too easy to steamroll harder content with them. Well for most classes it would be compared to Thief. Probably have to use something else than Thief for Raids.

Thief: The only profession where you wish you had tried to beat Darksouls 2 with Toothpick and no armor over trying to 1v1 most classes.

Or you can build for 1v1 and stop going meta <3. But ye, Thief needs help. Daredevil is beautiful and makes us viable beyond a dream, but Thief is bad. Trickery is taken for the Master Minor trait (I’d love it to be baseline, this will be in all my posts to follow. I advise you all to put “make preparedness baseline” in your sigs), Crit strikes is actually very bad with a few traits taken for specific weapon skills over actual usefulness (Hidden Killer only for daggers…ok…), DA is mixed identity, Acro is just bad, and SA feels almost right. So DD and SA are fantastic lines, with Trickery being mandatory unless you wanna lose the aforementioned toothpick.

Daredevil is A..W..F..U..L… granted… if you trying playing without daredevil you’re worse off than playing just as a thief. Though honestly all the mechanics seem like an afterthought. If you do go Daredevil leave the staff at home, it’s better as a decoration than something useful in combat.

Link.1049:

Daredevil is A..W..F..U..L… granted… if you trying playing without daredevil you’re worse off than playing just as a thief. Though honestly all the mechanics seem like an afterthought. If you do go Daredevil leave the staff at home, it’s better as a decoration than something useful in combat.

i actually love my staff as my second weapon kitten far, my main weapon was ranged

didnt try it as a main weapon yet though, planning on doing so the next time that i can play more than two hours at once

damage is nice, mobility with dash is nice as well (my favorite dodge in wvw roaming) and i love the staff trait

I really WANT to like Staff… but its utility is so lacking, and its damage evaporates the moment you don’t perfectly hit a #2—which is inevitable, even in PvE (let alone PvP).

From my point of view S/D or S/P in combination with DD line is much more superior than Staff.

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ever consider that the problem is not the Thief?

Perhaps you’re just bad at playing Thief that you die a lot, which will annoy anyone.

Ever consider that everyone with internet access and a search engine already wonders if they’re not one of the rare people good at Thief without need for this?

Yes, I’ve considered it, yet the OP wonders if the Thief is bad instead of wondering if the Thief is not a good match to his playstyle.

What’s your point?

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

skogkatt.7586:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Ever consider that the problem is not the Thief?

Perhaps you’re just bad at playing Thief that you die a lot, which will annoy anyone.

Ever consider that everyone with internet access and a search engine already wonders if they’re not one of the rare people good at Thief without need for this?

Yes, I’ve considered it, yet the OP wonders if the Thief is bad instead of wondering if the Thief is not a good match to his playstyle.

What’s your point?

Look, I just don’t think you need to be an kitten. The problem is Thief is a hard class, it isn’t balanced so there are easy ways to play it like every other class, even Engineer. I wasn’t critiquing whether you thought it was a “good match”, I was critiquing your bringing their skill into question as some sort of value judgement being germane to like kitten all since any sane person disagrees the Thief is balanced, and I doubt they’re all crumby players. Just suggest they try an alt, move on. Done.

Suggesting an Alt is more insulting IMO. There are two points in my post;

1) I ask perhaps he’s bad at playing Thief — it happens and his friends have suggested it — that the problem might not be the Thief, but his playstyle. If you die a lot, you’re probably doing something wrong. So no matter what profession he plays without adapting to a better playstyle, he’ll still die (i.e. Standing in fire).

2) Thief not matching his playstyle doesn’t necessarily mean that he drop the Thief. What I meant is that he needs to understand the profession deeper in order to play it better. Thief is not a hard class, it just takes time to understand it. Denying that you’re failing in playing the profession will only hinder progress.

After admitting his shortcomings, he has two choices; either pick another profession or gain a deeper understanding of the Thief profession.

Suggesting an Alt without understanding the core problem is something that comes from someone who could careless.

Now your problem is, you have jumped to a wrong conclusion.

skogkatt.7586:

Whatever. I’ll read that treatise when I Imagine it has f all to do with f all.

Try an alt.

Move on.

Done.

skogkatt.7586:

I did. Ease your kitten.

You’ve just proven my point. Thanks.