Guild Wars 2

I consider myself a decent D/D thief. Which, let’s be honest, isn’t anything special.
Every time i lose a fight to a D/P thief, i just have to sigh, because not only it requires a lot more skill than D/D (I am not trying to start a flamewar here), but it’s just also look better.

I just recently got my Zoj ascended pistol, (I did not know you could change stats on your ascended weps…) So I think, i am more than ready to go:

I have watched a lot of D/P vids, i am just that much of a fail.

5/6: exotic Valkyrie gear (last piece is berserk)
6/6 ascended berserker jewelry set

I implore you, my fellow thieves, please share your D/P wisdom to those in need.

Ok 1st think you need to do is relocate your #3 key as you’ve prolly never used it.

Now let’s get into the best piece of advice you’ll ever get regarding D/P……don’t stealth. Once you learn not to you’re ready to learn D/P.

Yes there you have it the mecca of D/P advice.

Good luck

When you use shadow shot (#3) you can cancel it using stow weapon. This allows it to be used as a gap closer while staying in stealth, or to mess with their heads in stealth, since it blinds. They will think a burst is coming, making them dodge most of the time. This leaves them open to burst afterward.

Recently I learned that Headshot followed by a shadow shot works very well as a combo, and disrupts the enemy very much. The headshot is enough to make them have to stop and think for a second, but a shadow shot after it will cause a blind and deal damage, which will disorient them even more.

Hope that helps.

T raw.4658:

Ok 1st think you need to do is relocate your #3 key as you’ve prolly never used it.

Now let’s get into the best piece of advice you’ll ever get regarding D/P……don’t stealth. Once you learn not to you’re ready to learn D/P.

Yes there you have it the mecca of D/P advice.

Good luck

I kind of hope you mean “Avoid stealth as often as possible” because “Don’t stealth” sounds like you have been playing the Warrior to often lol.

Thanks man!

alchemyst.2165:

When you use shadow shot (#3) you can cancel it using stow weapon. This allows it to be used as a gap closer while staying in stealth, or to mess with their heads in stealth, since it blinds. They will think a burst is coming, making them dodge most of the time. This leaves them open to burst afterward.

Recently I learned that Headshot followed by a shadow shot works very well as a combo, and disrupts the enemy very much. The headshot is enough to make them have to stop and think for a second, but a shadow shot after it will cause a blind and deal damage, which will disorient them even more.

Hope that helps.

Ok so if I understood it correctly, if I am stealthed and use ShadowShot (#3), I don’t break stealth. So i just need to time my weapon stow correctly is that it?
This one is definitely advanced.

And so (#4) + (#3) is good for extra mindf’ing .

I appreciate that mate.

4 + 3 sounds like a little waste of initative to me.

And Weapon stow is not binded to your keyboard by default if you check in your keybinding options it one last options to set. to do it just watch shadow shot as it about to hit the target you press weapon stow canceling dagger swing that is instant cast that fallow up after shadow shot.

Also another use for shadow shot is if your having hard time with someone in stealth you press it in general direction you have a good chance teleporting on top of them.(using fire sigil is basically a stealth reveal)

also if your fighting a target that very single swing heavy weapon(such as hammer warrior). you should keep tab on your blinds so you do not have to waste your dodges. basicly on that type of fight you just run in do a couple hits move out 130 melee range when he try to swing again you just shadow shot him again move back in.

Head shot really should only be used for punishing heal or elites or very selective skills.. in my personal view i think skill just in general put you at a disavdantage using your initaitve that way

Another tip you do not have to be standing on your black powder to heart seeker stealth you start heart seeker off an jump into it gain stealth. (most commonly used if someone uses a heavy skill you dodge back heart seeker threw them gain the stealth.

i am not sure any of that was helpful to you but yeah.

Kocoff.7582:

D/P thief … requires a lot more skill than D/D

.

I think you vastly over-estimate the skill requirement for D/P. It’s one of the thief’s easiest weapon sets.

Kocoff.7582:

I implore you, my fellow thieves, please share your D/P wisdom to those in need.

Spam 3, auto-attack, execute with 2. 4/5 When you need it against tanks or bunkers you can’t kill, shortbow to run away.

You can cancel stuff as it was mentioned, but it’s really not even necessary half the time.

Kocoff.7582:

T raw.4658:

Ok 1st think you need to do is relocate your #3 key as you’ve prolly never used it.

Now let’s get into the best piece of advice you’ll ever get regarding D/P……don’t stealth. Once you learn not to you’re ready to learn D/P.

Yes there you have it the mecca of D/P advice.

Good luck

I kind of hope you mean “Avoid stealth as often as possible” because “Don’t stealth” sounds like you have been playing the Warrior to often lol.

Thanks man!

No I mean it.

Learn to not rely on stealth then you start putting it in your repitior

DeceiverX.8361:

Kocoff.7582:

D/P thief … requires a lot more skill than D/D

.

I think you vastly over-estimate the skill requirement for D/P. It’s one of the thief’s easiest weapon sets.

Kocoff.7582:

I implore you, my fellow thieves, please share your D/P wisdom to those in need.

Spam 3, auto-attack, execute with 2. 4/5 When you need it against tanks or bunkers you can’t kill, shortbow to run away.

You can cancel stuff as it was mentioned, but it’s really not even necessary half the time.

D/D thief elitism at it’s finest.

We can even say D/D is nothing but 5 > 1 then 2 spam….

best rotation on d/d is dancing dagger > heart seeker >steal > auto > cnd> backstab

Haha on bads and uplevels, maybe. HS spam is terrible and is punished so easily.

Anything beyond that and you’re in for way more of a challenge.

Don’t get me wrong, D/P is a great set, and there are a lot of amazing thieves using it, but D/P is absolutely not more skill-intensive to play successfully than D/D. Yes, the damage/burst component of landing a backstab is not mechanically difficult unless again, your foe is skilled and knows how to beat thieves, but surviving the encounter and out-playing your foes is a lot more difficult due to the overall limited capabilities of the set.

If Shadow Shot got nerfed, a lot of D/P players would be outraged and would be incapable of winning fights they currently can dominate.

@Tao:

An early HS is a waste of initiative. If you’re going to use HS at all, it should be done as a finisher after a CnD -> stab (under the assumption you know you can kill your target this way) and to close a gap if your enemy survives the burst and re-positions. Personally, I’d just recommend not using it at all and swapping weapons to a better skirmishing set like S/D or SB while you’re revealed and need to be on the defensive.

Oh i completely agree that rotation is full gimmicks but give you full burst combo if dancing dagger hit because they perma stun under basilisk. (asuming no stun break)

Taobella.6597:

4 + 3 sounds like a little waste of initative to me.

And Weapon stow is not binded to your keyboard by default if you check in your keybinding options it one last options to set. to do it just watch shadow shot as it about to hit the target you press weapon stow canceling dagger swing that is instant cast that fallow up after shadow shot.

Also another use for shadow shot is if your having hard time with someone in stealth you press it in general direction you have a good chance teleporting on top of them.(using fire sigil is basically a stealth reveal)

also if your fighting a target that very single swing heavy weapon(such as hammer warrior). you should keep tab on your blinds so you do not have to waste your dodges. basicly on that type of fight you just run in do a couple hits move out 130 melee range when he try to swing again you just shadow shot him again move back in.

Head shot really should only be used for punishing heal or elites or very selective skills.. in my personal view i think skill just in general put you at a disavdantage using your initaitve that way

Another tip you do not have to be standing on your black powder to heart seeker stealth you start heart seeker off an jump into it gain stealth. (most commonly used if someone uses a heavy skill you dodge back heart seeker threw them gain the stealth.

i am not sure any of that was helpful to you but yeah.

That was very insightful thank you. Especially the Shadowshot to help reveal other thieves. Never thought of that one before.

@ Tao & Deceiver, I like the conversation here but I am not asking about D/D. I am asking about D/P.

I just think D/D it’s mostly a game of patience and timing and how to never mess up your C&D, but we do not have to agree.

There are other people who may be interested in reading about properly playing D/P.

So let’s keep it D/P boys.

Taobella.6597:

Oh i completely agree that rotation is full gimmicks but give you full burst combo if dancing dagger hit because they perma stun under basilisk. (asuming no stun break)

It’s not really a “best” rotation then, is it? :P

A trailing HS will deal more damage as well, since even if you’re getting an executioner backstab, the 20% damage from it is lost to a low-power HS at the beginning. A boosted HS at low target health will out-damage the gains from Executioner stab. Depending on the build, DD -> Mug -> CnD will often put your enemy below half, too, allowing the same burst without wasted time or initiative.

Edit: Apologies, Kocoff, though I just don’t know if I still agree with the claim that D/P requires more skill to play successfully.

when i say best rotation i was implying most amount of dmg you can achieve out basilisk vemon.

and as far CnD goes you all way cancel the cast if your going to miss wont even cost you initiative. even use it to bait dodging

but you do skill canceling any thief skill that does not have a fix animation.

T raw.4658:

DeceiverX.8361:

Kocoff.7582:

D/P thief … requires a lot more skill than D/D

.

I think you vastly over-estimate the skill requirement for D/P. It’s one of the thief’s easiest weapon sets.

Kocoff.7582:

I implore you, my fellow thieves, please share your D/P wisdom to those in need.

Spam 3, auto-attack, execute with 2. 4/5 When you need it against tanks or bunkers you can’t kill, shortbow to run away.

You can cancel stuff as it was mentioned, but it’s really not even necessary half the time.

D/D thief elitism at it’s finest.

We can even say D/D is nothing but 5 > 1 then 2 spam….

Nice Mr pro T Raw

3.2k ap and less than 1000 hours on thief really nice tips

Taobella.6597:

4 + 3 sounds like a little waste of initative to me.

I thought it was at first too, until I was dueling another thief who was doing it and beating the kitten out of me with it. I started trying it out, and while it was initiative heavy, the payoff is very good if you land it. I say if you have a good amount of initiative and you are confident you will land it, go for it.

The best advices so far (for those who don’t like to read too much):

. Head Shot (#4) + Shadow Shot (#3) technique ;
. Shadow Shot (#3) in general direction to reveal hidden foe;
. Shadow Shot (#3) + plus stow weapon to shadowstep without reveal.

Taobella.6597:

best rotation on d/d is dancing dagger > heart seeker >steal > auto > cnd> backstab

Thanks for the tip

Few things I have e picked up using dp. Using #3 then infiltrations signet (pretty much simultaneously) at long bow rang works pretty well as a lot of people do not expect shadow shot to work from that range. Also with d/p I think it is better to have more precision then you would do as d/d because that set is mainly about CnD and bs. If you have no shame on chancing rng, head shot on a low target if you are at range (for what ever reason) could trigger fire/air sigil burst. Funny but sad at the same time winning a fight that way.

Off topic – Regarding d/p needs more or less skill, well anyone can #5 #2 spam, just as anyone can “spam #5 #1” as d/d. You can see d/p a mlie of and rupt the combo or you can dodge the CnD. Fact is with dp you use all 5 weapon skills so yes, it’s harder to main your iniative as a d/p then it is as d/d in that respect. I have always seen d/d as a 1 tricky pony but they also really have 1 real chance at it, d/p is more of an annoyance to the enemy but kills people just as much

Here’s a PRO tip:

When in stealth, use shadowshot (#3) and press 1 many times. This will result in a shadowstep backstab.

I’ve found out that it requires a certain distance for it to work, but try it out.
It somehow cancels the normal attack followed by shadowshot, and execute a backstab instead.

When using shadow shot at the correct time on an enemy using a teleport, shadow shot will follow them to their teleport location. This is ofcourse almost impossible to time correctly, but it still happens in heated fights. I’ve killed lots of other thieves like this (by accident mostly xD)

Fighting other DP thieves: (You will run into a lot of them)
D/P is known for it’s predictability. Most thieves will 5+2 before engaging, you can quick interrupt them with 4 or SoH, before they HS through Blackpowder, negating their stealth and wasting tons of their initiative. Or they will just open with shadow shot, which is easily dodgeable if you know it’s coming from range.

Thus, counter your own predictability by sometimes throwing in a Blackpowder + Steal/Teleport into the mix to land a Blackpowder under the enemy feet, and following up by a Heartseeker + Backstab while on top of them. Very useful on stationary targets casting a skill with long cast time (like a ranger using barrage) since they will have to move out of your blackpowder or risk being blinded for a long time.

Or you can be a punk like I am and go and stand in the enemy D/P thief’s BlackPowder and start auto attack spamming in it, if he tries to spam heartseeker to gain stealth duration he will a.) reveal himself by hitting me, b.) eat my 4k auto attacks.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I have always seen d/d as a 1 tricky pony but they also really have 1 real chance at it

Pft. Have you never seen me fighting? (GH too, Josteinn)
Or: Here’s my favourite D/D thief:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thGwGzQvajw
D/D thieves are more than One Trick Ponies

Jana.6831:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I have always seen d/d as a 1 tricky pony but they also really have 1 real chance at it

Pft. Have you never seen me fighting? (GH too, Josteinn)
Or: Here’s my favourite D/D thief:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thGwGzQvajw
D/D thieves are more than One Trick Ponies

Nice vids, Jana. Thank you for sharing.

DA-CS-SA, I presume? Or is Acro in there?

Couldn’t see propaply as I am on my phone in the sun but it looks like pre patch 2/6/6/0/0

@ Fat Disgrace , godmoney and mompen

These were interesting technique, a little basic, but i after playing a little i realized i needed those too xD. Thank you so much for those responses.

Mattigan.6395:

Nice vids, Jana. Thank you for sharing.

DA-CS-SA, I presume? Or is Acro in there?

That isn’t me, that’s just to show that D/D thieves aren’t one trick ponies.
And yes, that’s pre patch.
I still don’t spawn camp though ;)

There are only two videos of how I fight actually – one against my friend (thief) and one zerg fight – both in potato quality as I should install water cooling if I want to make more footage of how I fight ;)

mompen.7952:

Here’s a PRO tip:

When in stealth, use shadowshot (#3) and press 1 many times. This will result in a shadowstep backstab.

I’ve found out that it requires a certain distance for it to work, but try it out.
It somehow cancels the normal attack followed by shadowshot, and execute a backstab instead.

you have to be under 600 range for back stab take priority after that shadow shot take priority.

DP is very versatile but to use it properly you have to know how other classes work. You have to know what is good to blind, what is good to interrupt, when it is best to stealth up.

There is no just general “rotation” in that sense. Only advice i can give you is make research on other classes, find out what hurts them most as far as interrupts, blinds go. Just few simple examples:
It is possible to counter current mesmer stunlock build if you predict mantra use and blind mesmer before they use it. Obviously trying to stealth up while they have mantra up is pointless as you would just get stun locked while trying to bp+ hs.

Another simple example: interrupting ele in fire attunement hurts their dps a lot, if they are in air try to stealth up or blind them, you can dps while they are in earth, use interrupts and dps them while they are in water.

Last example (from own experience). if you fight engi, if they are in rifle/pistol/tool kit use dp for blinds, if they go grenade kit use sb to kite and keep pressure.

Also, dp doesn’t have as much dmg potential as dd but you have more tools. I found personally that in many cases i am better off with disabling/avoiding/stopping enemy from hitting me and actually killing them with AA than trying to get backstab off that :
- has high chance not to happen because bp+ hs is very easy to interrupt
- hs+ bp is predictable and has huge tell
- a lot of classes have high acess to protection/weakness making bs hit like wet noodle
- by the time you get in right position to execute bs you might actually die

So as i said, it is better off use the set to prevent enemy from killing you and keep pressure via AA.

Cynz.9437:

DP is very versatile but to use it properly you have to know how other classes work. You have to know what is good to blind, what is good to interrupt, when it is best to stealth up.

There is no just general “rotation” in that sense. Only advice i can give you is make research on other classes, find out what hurts them most as far as interrupts, blinds go. Just few simple examples:
It is possible to counter current mesmer stunlock build if you predict mantra use and blind mesmer before they use it. Obviously trying to stealth up while they have mantra up is pointless as you would just get stun locked while trying to bp+ hs.

Another simple example: interrupting ele in fire attunement hurts their dps a lot, if they are in air try to stealth up or blind them, you can dps while they are in earth, use interrupts and dps them while they are in water.

Last example (from own experience). if you fight engi, if they are in rifle/pistol/tool kit use dp for blinds, if they go grenade kit use sb to kite and keep pressure.

Also, dp doesn’t have as much dmg potential as dd but you have more tools. I found personally that in many cases i am better off with disabling/avoiding/stopping enemy from hitting me and actually killing them with AA than trying to get backstab off that :
- has high chance not to happen because bp+ hs is very easy to interrupt
- hs+ bp is predictable and has huge tell
- a lot of classes have high acess to protection/weakness making bs hit like wet noodle
- by the time you get in right position to execute bs you might actually die

So as i said, it is better off use the set to prevent enemy from killing you and keep pressure via AA.

I think you nicely described why i like the D/P. The versatility it gives what i really want to master. Thank you for your advices!

I am sorry i can’t write you full list of what you can do, i would have to list every spell of every class and describe certain situations to do it, which would be probably enough for little book.

I know Caed was writing very good guide with most important things to pay attention to and how to react to those situations but i guess he never got to finish it. I saw parts of it and maybe he would be kind enough to post at least what he already has (if you bug him enough :P)

I wanna thank everybody for those advices, D/P is a lot less tricky now that you explained it properly. I am doing pretty decent now in PvP and I will try WvW.

Still have a hard time doing the stow weapon trick, but it’s more like i don’t really need it that much.

Thank you again guys, and i hope this thread help other thieves how to D/P properly.

This is a tip that only very few people know, and only works against thieves/mesmers(with daze mantra):
When you are attempting to go into stealth with a BP+HS, IF your enemy has Steal/Daze mantra ready, use Headshot to hit him before using Heartseeker.
The Headshot will daze the enemy AND blind him, making it impossible for him to interrupt your Heartseeker. This can also work on Warriors though.
Getting interrupted during a BP+HS Combo is one of the worst things that can happen as a DP thief, and will usually force a cd (Shadowstep/Shadow Refuge) due to the fact that you will be left with little to no initiative. Ensuring that you complete that Combo no matter what is very important, and using Headshot before Heartseeker is the safest way of doing this.