Guild Wars 2

Let me first start by stating this: this is a question, and only a question, thrown out to people who play thieves in a PvP or WvW setting.

I’m an engineer for my main, I personally have no problem with backstab or really anything else thief related (but then again, I dont know much about you guys).

The question is this: In a relatively (as much as you can muster) objective manner, do you think stealth is a little too easy to use as an “oh s&#t” button, or, is it where it needs to be because the class is squishy.

Again, I know very little about thieves, having never really played one, so I’m trying to learn a bit. In my personal experience, it seems that sometimes it really is a bugger to kill you guys because of the stealth ability.

I’m sure I’ve set off a fire somewhere, but please keep it civil, i really am trying to learn lol

-Dr Hoppenheimer

Some thief builds can rarely stealth, some thief builds CANNOT stealth, and some builds deeply incorporate stealth into their build.

So to answer your question, it depends on the spec. However, in my experience, stealth is most of our survivability, we can remove it from our builds, but there’s nothing that makes up for it and the end result is we die way too fast, so most of us only stealth because we have to, regardless of whether or not we want to, if that makes any since…

It’s not my “oh crap” button. I use it for the stealth skills that are only available in stealth and general confusion/positioning. Shadowstep is my “oh crap” button. That, and other stun breakers/ distance creators.

I don’t even use stealth on my current build. I rely on Black Powder and mobility.

It doesn’t stop incoming damage and you can’t attack without breaking stealth. Compare that to warrior or guardian oh snap abilities that completely block incoming damage and let the warrior or guardian attack through em… I’m not really sure why a discussion is even needed. Stealth is more of a positioning and combo tool than anything else.

shadowstep stopped becoming my panic button when I realized I’ve gotten myself into too many situations where casting shadowstep was too late. My panic button actually became dagger storm

Lan.1968:

shadowstep stopped becoming my panic button when I realized I’ve gotten myself into too many situations where casting shadowstep was too late. My panic button actually became dagger storm

haha, same here, which means we’re noobs =))

In dungeons I have Shadow Refuge on my bar 75% of the time. I did CoF last night and 4 of my teammates (Silly Buggers) got hit by the Boss’ attack and all 4 made it to the downed state. I was behind the boss so I didn’t get hit.

I put Shadow Refuge on all 4 of them and helped them up in time before it ran out while the boss was fighting the NPC

For dungeons, shadow refuge. For PVP, roll for initiative. Have you seen all those hammer warriors recently? They set up kills so well.

I don’t have a panic button at all, but sometimes I will hit the return for Infiltrator’s Strike (I have an S/D fencing build) to get out of danger quickly. Stealth is an extra tactical layer I use to reposition or safely stomp. I never hit C+D or a stealth skill out of panic (running out of initiative is really the only time I hit BP, and Shadow Refuge is for ressing allies).

despite playing D/D, i rarely stealth. my stealth is either a result of me wanting to recharge initiative through steal, or me running away and for some reason not having access to my bow’s infiltrator arrow.

oh and i like stealth stomping too. steal towards downed player, stomp before he even realizes you’re in range (steal stealth is the best stealth, since you don’t get seen until you break out of it).

the class is incredibly squishy, i incorporate stealth in my build as aggro dump.
But like the 2nd poster said, some classes can barely stealth, Sword Dagger combo for example or anything with a pistol offhand.

Stealth is not the problem, it becomes a problem if you’re a nooby player who stands still, the moment a thief stealths on you just do a dodge, such an easy mechanic to counter.

I’ve come to this conclusion that most people in GW2 dont know how to play their class judging from all the warriors I’ve pugged with a large majority of them backline with rifles and bows and often wait for me a thief to open the attacks.

I enjoy stealth defensively for the disorientation and target break it causes, but as a solution for avoiding fatal damage it isn’t particularly effective. If you can read where the thief is likely to go when stealthed it isn’t much harder to hit them and the stealth itself makes it more difficult for them to run away. A good amount of my thief kills (as a thief) come from stealthed thieves just because it is fairly easy to catch and dispatch a thief who has decided to stealth and hang around at low health vs. one that simply outranges and regens.

bwillb.2165:

It doesn’t stop incoming damage and you can’t attack without breaking stealth. Compare that to warrior or guardian oh snap abilities that completely block incoming damage and let the warrior or guardian attack through em… I’m not really sure why a discussion is even needed. Stealth is more of a positioning and combo tool than anything else.

The discussion is because I asked a question, so when you need to bail from a fight, do you not pop stealth? How long is the cooldown/uptime on the ability? With or without specs, idk if you know off the top of your head.

Well it can be for low stealth builds. However as an escape button it is weak. You have to consider that stealth doesn’t stop damage just lets you move away a bit. Gap closers and range will be unaffected by this (if they know what they are doing) once you pop out of it.

OP you said you don’t know much about thief. Here’s one thing. A thief worth his or her salt is going stealth on escape if they can but most know our best escape tool is short bow #5 (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow). If you use utility skills that aren’t dps related my best escape is my best gap closer shadowstep (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadowstep).

I play a tanky dagger/pistol thief. I use stealth for aggression (sneak attack), to cause my enemies to drop target and to reposition. The repositioning can be for defensive or aggressive purposes. I suppose stealth is an ‘oh kitten’ button because its attached to a major heal, but there are other far more effective ways of escaping a bad situation that others have mentioned.

If you’re having trouble with enemy thieves escaping, remember to use your cc to secure the kill when you are confident that you can burst them down. If a thief is almost dead and just went into stealth it’s fairly easy to predict their flight path, follow and kill when they reappear 3-4 seconds later. Thieves can get hit during stealth, so just chase and swing your weapon/aoe/shoot/lay traps where they probably went. If a thief enters stealth after you just cc’d them, they’ll probably still be there taking damage, though many players dont realise this, however there are ways to move when cc’d. Snares can be extremely effective as they can be incredibly long lasting and movement/evasion is what most thieves rely upon for survivability.

You realise what he’s asking are simply the most basic mechanical questions of how the Thief works, not anything complicated. OP would be better off rolling one and spending 10 minutes in the mist. Breakdown anyway:

There is no ‘Stealth Button’, there are a variety of abilities that grant stealth for 3 (4 talented) seconds with different properties, on cooldowns. Common ways of entering stealth would be:

- One of the healing skills, with a cast time, gives 3 seconds stealth as well as healing. 30s cooldown.

- With offhand dagger the point blank melee skill Cloak and Dagger will give 3 seconds of stealth, costing half your initiative. Has a cast time and requires you to be closer than autoattack range.

- Utility skill blinding powder blinds and gives stealth for 3 seconds. Not commonly used as there are better options.

- Shadow Refuge creates a black field with a house icon ontop of it that stealths everything inside. Stealth lasts for a long time but breaks immediately if leaving the circle, meaning you can simply AoE the circle untill the Thief appears. The circle visual dissapears after 4 seconds but the effect still applies for about 12 seconds where the circle was, so you should still continue AoE’ing the area.

Of those only Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge are commonly used as escapes, and Shadow Refuge only works because people don’t know the mechanics of it and just walk away assuming the Thief has escaped. Hide in the Shadows (Heal) has a long cooldown, a cast time and removes conditions so it is best popped midway into the fight, you can use it while escaping but if you’re doing that it usually means you’re giving up without really putting much into the fight.

The best OH kitten buttons for Thief are not the stealths, but their ground targetted teleports. Shadowstep is a 1200 range teleport and can be followed by small teleports from infiltrators arrow, generally letting you get out of range of people. The differences between the Thief defensive utilities and other classes equivalents are that the Thief abilities are good at exiting a fight and running away, while most other classes have utilities that let them stay alive and stay in the fight, such as temporary immunity or significant damage reduction. These types of abilities are much better in fights over cap points as staying in the fight while your target runs away means you win.

Hi, i sometimes use stealth as a panic button, when immobilized and with 2-3 ppl hitting me i cast blinding powder that is an aoe blind + 4secs of stealth (with my build). I can generally wait to be able to move again, and go away or at least it gives me 1 sec to place the shadowstep gt as far as i can, than shadowstep, dodge (2s of swiftness), than stealth again (with healing skill or shadow refuge. or rarely using steal with hidden thief trait and no target).

TeoH.2098:

You realise what he’s asking are simply the most basic mechanical questions of how the Thief works, not anything complicated. OP would be better off rolling one and spending 10 minutes in the mist. Breakdown anyway:

There is no ‘Stealth Button’, there are a variety of abilities that grant stealth for 3 (4 talented) seconds with different properties, on cooldowns. Common ways of entering stealth would be:

- One of the healing skills, with a cast time, gives 3 seconds stealth as well as healing. 30s cooldown.

- With offhand dagger the point blank melee skill Cloak and Dagger will give 3 seconds of stealth, costing half your initiative. Has a cast time and requires you to be closer than autoattack range.

- Utility skill blinding powder blinds and gives stealth for 3 seconds. Not commonly used as there are better options.

- Shadow Refuge creates a black field with a house icon ontop of it that stealths everything inside. Stealth lasts for a long time but breaks immediately if leaving the circle, meaning you can simply AoE the circle untill the Thief appears. The circle visual dissapears after 4 seconds but the effect still applies for about 12 seconds where the circle was, so you should still continue AoE’ing the area.

Of those only Blinding Powder and Shadow Refuge are commonly used as escapes, and Shadow Refuge only works because people don’t know the mechanics of it and just walk away assuming the Thief has escaped. Hide in the Shadows (Heal) has a long cooldown, a cast time and removes conditions so it is best popped midway into the fight, you can use it while escaping but if you’re doing that it usually means you’re giving up without really putting much into the fight.

The best OH kitten buttons for Thief are not the stealths, but their ground targetted teleports. Shadowstep is a 1200 range teleport and can be followed by small teleports from infiltrators arrow, generally letting you get out of range of people. The differences between the Thief defensive utilities and other classes equivalents are that the Thief abilities are good at exiting a fight and running away, while most other classes have utilities that let them stay alive and stay in the fight, such as temporary immunity or significant damage reduction. These types of abilities are much better in fights over cap points as staying in the fight while your target runs away means you win.

you forgot traited steal, which will turn F1 into your “stealth button”, and even shadowstep you to an unaware target in the distance if within range. great way to run away or go through a pack of enemies unnoticed.

It can be.

But it’s not an instant escape button like some people think it is. You can still damage a thief if they’re stealthed and projectiles that have already been fired at them before they stealthed will hit us.

Did they fix the steal stealth trait recently? I tried it out last week and it didn’t work once, out of combat > no revealed debuff > steal from a mob > I teleport up to him, steal and item, and gain the revealed debuff without going into stealth.

A lot of the time blinding powder does the same thing, you don’t have the revealed debuff, you use blinding powder, and you don’t stealth, but you still gain the revealed debuff

I also play with autoattack OFF, so it can’t be that

Thanks, TeoH, the mists was my first idea, but I’m too cheap to buy another character slot. Like I said, I use grenades, so when a thief goes invis, I usually start throwing in a radial-ish pattern if I dont know where they were headed.

Quite a few posts emphasized that thieves still take damage, yes, I did know that. I’ve killed a bunch while stealthed, but losing sight is a GREAT escape tool by itself. More so, in my opinion, than a 3-4 sec damage evasion (elixer S). I’ve found that when I get the stealth part of a thrown elixer S, i have a MUCH greater chance at escaping than I do when just using its stun break/evasion abilities. I appreciate everyone’s responses!

After playing WvW a decent amount, I’ve been thinking more and more about making a thief, might have to delete my ele to do it, I’m glad the stealth doesnt seem to be the gtfo button. Thanks again guys!